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lol many times thats because the business is just to cheap to shell out for an iphone, most guys using the blackberries i see in the business, aren using the top model, its one of the cheaper models you can get for $49.

You hit it on the nose!!! LOL. Yes in certain aspects (and not all businesses) cost is a factor. The reason why you see them with the older model is even though this is a business account, we still have a two year cell and data contract with the carrier and have the same 18 month turn around requirements.
However, for the top dogs, there's always a workaround.
 
Again, for you to make a statement like that, I'm sure you have tons of real world examples. Please post one.

My fortune 500 company had a small iphone pilot last year. Not one person in the pilot asked to go back to their blackberry. We now have thousands of iPhone's in use. Never once did we have any security problems.

I work for a fortune 100 company, but that is neither here or there. Your company has an unnecessary exposure. It takes roughly 45 minutes to dump your iphone image. And guess what, it un-encrypts when you do that. Blackberry does not. Our company does not want to be the first real world example.

Moving on, my points with the links are these are some of the reason's why Big Business (some) do not want to adopt the iPhone.
I get the impression you are happy with your setup, and I am happy you can use your iphone in your place of work, I know it must be a great convenience.
 
You hit it on the nose!!! LOL. Yes in certain aspects (and not all businesses) cost is a factor. The reason why you see them with the older model is even though this is a business account, we still have a two year cell and data contract with the carrier and have the same 18 month turn around requirements.
However, for the top dogs, there's always a workaround.

even guys with a new blackberry, still arent using the top model, just how it is, when you have hundreds even thousands of employees that u give a phone to, the $50 difference between a basic blackberry and a basic iphone is THOUSANDS of dollars difference.
 
even guys with a new blackberry, still arent using the top model, just how it is, when you have hundreds even thousands of employees that u give a phone to, the $50 difference between a basic blackberry and a basic iphone is THOUSANDS of dollars difference.

Yes we have around 19,000 in one sector alone. However, if iphone cost was not an factor and companies were giving iphones to their employees in droves right now, there is no incentive for the employee to take care of it. What about the abuse factor, devices do get dropped. From my experience, a BB can take allot more abuse than an iphone.
 
yes but durability isnt what people have been discussing here, its phone functionality. Company im apart of, have been moving over the iphone, even the owner of the company has now moved to the iphone for all his business needs.
 
yes but durability isnt what people have been discussing here, its phone functionality. Company im apart of, have been moving over the iphone, even the owner of the company has now moved to the iphone for all his business needs.

Good to hear. However, I don't know, I would consider durability part of functionality. Just my opinion though. . Does the user own the device or the company?
 
company phone, they give them a choice of the blackberry or the iphone when they renew the contract, before it was only the blackberry
 
I work for a fortune 100 company, but that is neither here or there. Your company has an unnecessary exposure. It takes roughly 45 minutes to dump your iphone image. And guess what, it un-encrypts when you do that. Blackberry does not. Our company does not want to be the first real world example.

Moving on, my points with the links are these are some of the reason's why Big Business (some) do not want to adopt the iPhone.
I get the impression you are happy with your setup, and I am happy you can use your iphone in your place of work, I know it must be a great convenience.


Can you please post a link to a news story about a user having his corporate data stolen from a lost iPhone please? Since its so easy you must have tons of examples.
 
Can you please post a link to a news story about a user having his corporate data stolen from a lost iPhone please? Since its so easy you must have tons of examples.

I said I have no real world example. Because it has not happened does not mean it does not exist. The 911 attack never happened before either. Companies make there own decisions on how much exposure they are willing to accept. There is nothing wrong with preemptive measures.

Edit: Even if there are real world examples, what are you going to do, give up your iphone?

Like I also said, I am happy your company was able to adopt the iphone.
 
This is true to a point, however without a device to read your mail on while your own the move, an Exchange server becomes irrelevant. Many many decisions are made away from the office because of a having a handy mail device. When your ride corporate elevators in the morning and evening, go outside at lunch time, you mysteriously see the suits reading their Blackberry. Take a walk around a business district in a major city, this is what you will see.

That statement isn't accurate. Mobile Access is simply one feature of a mail platform. There are other ways to get your email on the go. Also those links were interesting, but they focus on main things such as the need to JB the device or relying on the user having jailborken, installed OpenSSH and then not changing the device password, and then being on an insecure mobile network or Wi-Fi network and then allowing access.

If an employee JB's the device and then does the above, I doubt they will be an employee much longer.

The one thing those articles doesn't state tho is the recent exploit for non-jailbroken phones. However, if it is a corporate device, the employee should not be installing unauthorised apps.

I have had had first hand experience of companies doing an iPhone trial and then not rolling out the iPhone due to security restrictions. In one case that springs to mind it was because the iPhone encryption wasn't string enough, but I don't know if they had the 3G or the 3GS.

On topic, I have both the 9700 and a 3G. For a while I used the iPhone has my 'one' device but I got bored of getting my emails outside of work, so I went back to two devices as it allowed that seperation. However, as a device, the 9700 is very nice, and comparable to my iPhone in a lot of ways. Speed wise they are about the same. I do prefer the look of my iPhone, but I like the darkness of the 9700 as well. I am quick on both keyboards. The battery life on the 9700 is much better than that of my iPhone tho.
 
I said I have no real world example. Because it has not happened does not mean it does not exist. The 911 attack never happened before either. Companies make there own decisions on how much exposure they are willing to accept. There is nothing wrong with preemptive measures.

Edit: Even if there are real world examples, what are you going to do, give up your iphone?

Like I also said, I am happy your company was able to adopt the iphone.

Strange that your making a statement about the huge lack of security on the iPhone but dont have 1 real world example of this ever happening. Not that big of a flaw then. Thats my point.
 
hes saying the risk is there, not that something like that has happend, but the possibility is there, i dont see why your getting so uptight about it.

the security risk is there, its been told by many sites that it is there, just hasnt become a real threat, yet.
 
hes saying the risk is there, not that something like that has happend, but the possibility is there, i dont see why your getting so uptight about it.

the security risk is there, its been told by many sites that it is there, just hasnt become a real threat, yet.

Yes there is a risk. A risk that there is no record of anybody ever exploiting. Not sure how a unexploited risk makes one device better for business than another.
 
That statement isn't accurate. Mobile Access is simply one feature of a mail platform. There are other ways to get your email on the go. Also those links were interesting, but they focus on main things such as the need to JB the device or relying on the user having jailborken, installed OpenSSH and then not changing the device password, and then being on an insecure mobile network or Wi-Fi network and then allowing access.

What method do you use to get email on the road without a device?

Secondly, yes you need tools to access the data on the device, that is no different than other nefarious methods of hacking any device. I just posted some links, there are other methods not requiring an iphone be found in a jailbroken state.
 
Yes there is a risk. A risk that there is no record of anybody ever exploiting. Not sure how a unexploited risk makes one device better for business than another.

All I can say is that it appears that the risk does not exist on the BB. At least not the decryption one of a copied iphone image.

I'm sure that in the next iteration of the iphone, this will no longer be the case.
 
I also have a 9700. While I think its a great email device, thats really all I use it for. Just curious, what do you use the multitasking on the BB for? What apps on the BB do you find you need to run all the time?

For me, not having Push Notification, and having the app actually running is big plus.

I usually keep the enterprise messenger open, plus google talk. The good thing about the BB is you're always connected to the internal network. iPhone can do that, yes, but you have to actually keep the VPN alive all the time.
What about yourself?
 
What method do you use to get email on the road without a device?

OWA which some devices can render properly including the iPhone I think. Or you could just use any computer (using common sense obviously)

RPC over HTTPS which just requires a net connection for your corporate PC


Secondly, yes you need tools to access the data on the device, that is no different than other nefarious methods of hacking any device. I just posted some links, there are other methods not requiring an iphone be found in a jailbroken state.

Yeh I know, that's what I said
 
OWA which some devices can render properly including the iPhone I think. Or you could just use any computer (using common sense obviously)

RPC over HTTPS which just requires a net connection for your corporate PC




Yeh I know, that's what I said

Oh, then I think you may have misread my statement, which was "This is true to a point, however without a device to read your mail on while your on the move, an Exchange server becomes irrelevant." I said device, which could be PC, BB or Iphone. I never said the device needed to be handheld.
 
This is true to a point, however without a device to read your mail on while your own the move, an Exchange server becomes irrelevant. Many many decisions are made away from the office because of a having a handy mail device. When your ride corporate elevators in the morning and evening, go outside at lunch time, you mysteriously see the suits reading their Blackberry. Take a walk around a business district in a major city, this is what you will see.

That's because people falsely believe that Blackberry's are the only ones that can do email. It is a generic term, like give me a Kleenex, or lets throw the Frisbee. Same thing.
 
That's because people falsely believe that Blackberry's are the only ones that can do email. It is a generic term, like give me a Kleenex, or lets throw the Frisbee. Same thing.

Yep, that's true to certain extent. However there is a lot more to a Blackberry Enterprise setup than the device itself that makes it appealing. If you are in the support of technology game, then you may know about it. If not then there is really no point in explaining it as anything said in BB and BES will just get shot down.
 
For me, not having Push Notification, and having the app actually running is big plus.

I usually keep the enterprise messenger open, plus google talk. The good thing about the BB is you're always connected to the internal network. iPhone can do that, yes, but you have to actually keep the VPN alive all the time.
What about yourself?


I really don't get it. What is the benefit of having an IM app always running in the background, compared to getting push notifications?

I am not saying multitasking doesn't have some advantages (apps like Pandora come to mind), but messaging apps are done very well with Push Notifications.
 
All I can say is that it appears that the risk does not exist on the BB. At least not the decryption one of a copied iphone image.

I'm sure that in the next iteration of the iphone, this will no longer be the case.


Then I would have to say there is a risk with my Blackberry email having to flow through the network of another company. Sure, it might have never been exploited, but I guess its a risk.
 
Then I would have to say there is a risk with my Blackberry email having to flow through the network of another company. Sure, it might have never been exploited, but I guess its a risk.

The message is encrypted, so good look trying to decrypt it. It seems you are a user and not a tech so I provided you with some info I found at http://www.blackberryforums.com


Message flow to a handheld
New Message arrives: the Microsoft/Lotus message transfer agent delivers message to user’s desktop email mailbox.
Message notification: Blackberry maintains a MAPI connection to the user’s mailbox. The connection enables the server to use the same notification for new mail, blackberry processes message as it arrives.
Message filters are applied: BES checks message fields against global filter rules.BES then applies user-defined filters.
Message ID is assigned: BES randomly generates a reference id and tag.
Message is compressed and encrypted.
Message sent to wireless network: BES sends the first portion of the message through port 3101 to the wireless network, which verifies the PIN belongs to a valid handheld registered on the network
Confirmation is returned: The network locates the handheld and delivers the message.
Arrives on handheld: The handheld decrypts and decompresses the message and notifies the user of new mail.

Message flow from the handheld
Message sent from handheld, on the handheld the message is assigned a reference id.
Message is compressed and encrypted.
Message is sent to BES Server, through port 3101 to the wireless network to the Blackberry Server.
Message is decrypted and decompressed: BES decrypts and decompresses the message. If the message does not match the users encryption key, the message is discarded.
Message is placed in outbox on the Exchange Store.
Message delivery: The Exchange MTA delivers the message.
Copied to sent items folder: A copy of the message is placed in the user’s desktop email program sent items folder.

Edit: Link to diagram http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglance/security/bes-diag_large.jpg
 
Blackberry dosent have VPN client to my knowledge. Which is a MUST for me. Iphone has it. I was highly considering the 9700 though. VERY nice phone.
 
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