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That's funny...correct me if I'm wrong, but the 4S hasn't even come out yet. Have you used it? Played with iOS 5 on it? Have you used any other phone that might be coming out...oh...in about 6 days or so? While we're at it, have you even used any other smartphone for an extended period of time before? How can you say that the iPhone 4S is absolutely the most usable, most capable, highest quality and BEST, when the friggin' thing hasn't even been in your hands? Because that's what other people are saying?

I was talking about the iPhone 4 you knob.



Who says they're way below average customer satisfaction surveys...you? Credible source I'm sure, but please give me more. And no one's buying the Galaxy S2 or is going to buy the Nexus Prime, huh? Dream on...

The customer satisfaction surveys do. Stop being dense.


If you're gonna use an analogy, why would you pick cars? Of all the industries in the world, the car industry is probably the worst that you could have used...everyone knows that specs matter in the car industry. Everyone also knows that just because Honda Civics outsell Porsches, it doesn't mean the Civic's a better car. People would laugh in your face if you suggested the top-selling car was also the B-E-S-T car...

The analogy is not relevant. If a product is the best selling item at the highest price combined with the highest customer satisfaction there is no arguing it is the best.

The smartphone market is one of the few industries where a clear cut best device exists. Same goes for the tablet market. That Apple has two of those rare "best" products is pretty astounding, it rarely happens, but by all measurement and criteria they are the best.

If I sold toothbrushes for $100 and my toothbrush sold 500% more toothbrushes than anyone elses toothbrush and had customer satisfaction ratings that nearly doubled the closest competition, I would be confident in saying I had the best toothbrush. Again this is what Apple does in the smartphone market.
 
It's the software, stupid!

iPhone 4S is already an 'outdated' phone on launch date, lagging behind other phones that are same/lower in price.

Apple did absolutely the right thing: making heavy investments in the iOS, iCloud, and the ecosystem. It is here where the real differentiation will be not in the handsets. While other companies release new phone hardware every other week, they still use a operating system platform that is fragmented, has security problems, and no broad ecosystem of App developers (that make money) and content providers.

People who are only interested in the coolest thingy-gizmo-hardware will take Samsung, Google ore something else. People who want to get things done, and use their content subscriptions on a wide range of iDevices will stay with Apple, even if their hardware is lagging behind competition once in a while.

----------

Many analysts were disappointed because of the iPhone 5 no show. Good thing about this is that the AAPL stock took a little nosedive, which was a great opportunity for me to add some more AAPL to my portfolio.

As usual, I always buy the next great Apple product with the profits I make from the AAPL capital gains. Current valuation is 1 AAPL share = roughly one iPhone.

AAPL stock will continue performing well in the long range, so I will be able to invest the profits into new Apple gear.
 
That can't be right. The Samsung Galaxy S II is wiping the floor with the iPhone in benchmarks.

You are one of those people that think number specs means something is automatically quicker. Not only is the processor a different architecture but the software makes a difference too! Android is bloated, there is no question about it. This is basically what we will be looking at on October 14th:

http://obamapacman.com/2011/09/performance-benchmarks-ipad-2-still-rules-android-samsung-galaxy/

Where the iPad 2 is, is where the iPhone 4S will be. They are basically the same devices, just different screen size.


- Joe
 
I was talking about the iPhone 4 you knob.

...

The customer satisfaction surveys do. Stop being dense.

awww...did the big bad man insult your precious wittle apple? :mad:

haha...ok...no need for insults....your view differs than mine as to what is "best". after all, the word "best" is a subjective term...people value different things and put different weight on numbers, sales, specs, etc than others.

The analogy is not relevant.

Then stop using analogies.
 
Am I the only one who's glad the case wasn't redesigned? The iP5 prototype renderings floating around looked, IMHO, ugly, badly-proportioned and as an owner of a 4th gen iPod touch, I can't stand the tapered edges. The buttons are slippery and the thing feels like its about to launch out of my hand at any moment. Sign me up for the iPhone 4S. My parents as well - they're ready to finally ditch their 5-year-old dumbphones.
 
Apple has used the same design for their phones for 2 years on all except the first iPhone. Just by that people should have expected the same phone but with spec jumps.

Then the iPhone 4 is already the best phone out there.. And with a faster processor n better battery life, no new phone can compete.

I don't understand why people expected a
Whole new phone when apples own history suggested a spec
Bump.

I'm not gonna lie thiugh, if it looked different, I would have gotten thr 4s, but the 4 is good enough for me, if you don't have a ip4, the ip4s is by far the best phone. Good screen, amazing camera, best battery life, the latter I find most important. IMO
 
Apple has used the same design for their phones for 2 years on all except the first iPhone. Just by that people should have expected the same phone but with spec jumps.

I don't see why people are saying this...just because it happened ONCE with the 3G and 3GS does not make it a trend that people should have seen happening again.

Now, after the fact, it's happened twice, and maybe now people can expect that from Apple in the future.

But for all the people who smugly like to look back and say "it should have been obvious because that's what they've always done"...ONE OCCURRENCE DOES NOT MAKE A PREDICTABLE TREND.
 
Waited for a 5...

I have the original iPhone, and I decided not to upgrade to the 4 when it came out. I was waiting for the 5; or what should have been the 5. Looks like Apple has decided to cut corners and go for the easy move of selling 4's with new guts. It's too bad...now I have to get a BLACKBERRY! :cool:
 
I have the original iPhone, and I decided not to upgrade to the 4 when it came out. I was waiting for the 5; or what should have been the 5. Looks like Apple has decided to cut corners and go for the easy move of selling 4's with new guts. It's too bad...now I have to get a BLACKBERRY! :cool:

You mean what YOU HOPE should have been the 5? :rolleyes:
 
You'd think people would learn how Apple works... iPhone 5 won't be out for at least 8 months or so, and when it's out, people will be pissed iPhone 6 wasn't released...
 
snip... and I can guarantee that the sales for 4S won't be as fantastic as 4

If your guarantees were worth anything, you wouldn't be here whining. You be too wealthy to care and would upgrade/switch phones/carriers on a whim.

----------

I have the original iPhone, and I decided not to upgrade to the 4 when it came out. I was waiting for the 5; or what should have been the 5. Looks like Apple has decided to cut corners and go for the easy move of selling 4's with new guts. It's too bad...now I have to get a BLACKBERRY! :cool:

Good luck with that. Don't let the door hit you.

----------

snip...
I don't understand why people expected a
Whole new phone when apples own history suggested a spec
Bump.

'Cause they believed all the leaked photos of supposedly new designs.

----------

Never usually get involved in these discussions because there is a tremendous amount of personal bias, misunderstanding, stubbornness, and overall fanboyism/anti-fanboyism that no matter how persuasive your point, you'll still have fans on each side of the aisle. That said, there are a few points that have not been discussed which are more factual and are worth noting, especially for the OP who I am only interested in responding to since he/she sounds unsure about what to do.

Point 1: iPhone "5". There was a spot on little article by either Gruber or CNET about why there was no iPhone 5 - simply it all has to do with carrier contracts. Unlike in other countries, the 2 year contract for subsidized pricing is standard in the US. As such, it is clear Apple, now involved in the phone game, understands this and as a one product phone company, is on the same 2 year cycle for major phone refreshes. This point was made before the 4S came out and was the main reason why i would have bet the farm that this was an incremental upgrade. The majority of people do not "early upgrade" their phones until eligible and the ones that do are the ones that will continue to do so and will buy every incremental iPhone/Android upgrade. Apple is the only company that has to really abide by these laws since they control the OS and the hardware, for better or worse for them and us. All other manufacturers are hardware only and thus there business is putting out multiple phones a year to appeal to as many people as possible. And since they have no idea when a new OS is coming, they cannot rely on that as their differentiator. Your comparison to the iPad and pissed off people is not relevant in this conversation since its a completely different product and has a free and clear data plan - and thus what Apple does with the iPad is different since its not tied to cellular contracts. Advice: You will not see another iPhone until next year so that should be a major consideration for you in your decision since you should be thinking of the 4S as the Apple phone to compare for the next 12 months.

Point 2: Specs. Not going to debate if an A5 or a snapdragon dual core is better nor am I going debate who has the slightly better camera or whether bigger screen is better. Here is the reality. The "antiquated" argument is ridiculous if you are trying to say the 1280x720 screen comes out and Apples 960X540 screen is old technology. Similarly the same on the processors. Technology advances every day. Tomorrows tech will be newer than yesterdays. If you were just buying one of those components the choice is easy. But you are not. You are buying everything from just a simple phone with a browser to an entire user experience and mobile ecosystem. Its user dependant. A little not so obvious yet very obvious reality. Software is more important than hardware in today's hardware commoditized world. That is not to say hardware doesn't have an impact but a straight hardware comparison is simply irrelevant when comparing different mobile OSs/phones. I own an iPhone 4 and a Droid Bionic. Feel free to look up the spec comparison. But the Bionic has a lot of this "newer" technology as you might refer to it when compared to the iPhone 4. Which is a better phone? Not worth me answering since i have no idea how to define better. But I can tell you this which is not really debatable. The iPhone is still an incredibly more fluid/simple/integrated user experience overall and the tight integration between hardware and software is clearly a tremendous advantage that no other major competitor (android/windows) enjoys - unfortunately. Everything else is certainly open for debate. Advice: Instead of spec matching or worrying about LTE or NFC, ask yourself 1) How do I use my phone most of my day, 2) What can I not live without, 3) Is there something coming which is a must have and thus worth me waiting. Apples tight integration with its app store, music and multimedia content, other devices, soon to be iCloud (although yet to be tested how important/well/necessary this is), etc may be too great for you to pass up. Or as a google user, Androids tight integration with Google services may also make your feel the same way. But for most people, the answers to 1 and 2 will drive their purchase decision much more heavily than screen size, a few mghz, or a few megapixels. Despite the marketing. And there is good reason for this - in real world usage, most of this stuff is just not noticeable and impactful enough to supersede the above. A small anecdote to this point as it related to LTE. LTE is fast. And Boat Browser I think is the best Android browser. The combo is deadly and compared to the iPhone 4 with just CDMA and Safari (still my fav), obviously its no contest when i compare downloading files or how fast I can load content rich site. Practically speaking - I browse tons of sites most of which are mobile optimized and access much of my content these days through RSS app and Twitter. When I actually decided to compare usage for a few days, it was pretty clear for me the LTE benefit sounds amazing but just didn't play out that way in daily usage. Hence why you need to ask yourself the questions above because its really the only thing that matters and goes so much further in helping you answer your key question.

Point 3: All this comparing who sells the most phones, who has the most market share, Apple is doomed or Apple is in trouble or Android sucks because its fragmented is such rubbish. Its really so simple. Apple has now invented and defined and revolutionized three major mobile categories. MP3 players, Smartphones, and tablets. Lets forget MP3 because its on its way our as a standalone category. The firsts in each of these categories were so game changing that nothing post can compare to them. Not from Apple and not from anyone else. These markets are still relatively new and the name of the game is incremental innovation. Each OS has its pros and cons. I actually give credit to MSFT for trying to break the apple/android mold but lets be honest guys, everything being done is small innovations. All three of these OSs are in relative equal maturity and parity. And that is a very sobering thought if you comprehend it. iOS is the leader and Android is close. MSFT is way behind and if you really want to see innovation out of Apple and Google then we should all be rooting for MSFT and Nokia. They have the most ground to make up and parity with Android and Apple aint gonna cut it. And unfortunately, as long as Google continues to play games with Android (not open sourcing the os right away, doing foolish things like buying motorola), the handset manufacturers are heavily handicapped in what they can produce because of their inability to control software and hardware like Apple.

Last point. Siri may end up being a very big innovation, maybe even possibly revolutionary. Or it may be nothing more than Ping 2. Apple may not have invented it (they bought it) but give them credit for recognizing this as a potential game changer (they have been talking about this concept for years) and buying it and tightly integrating it. It may not be as risky as trying to define a category but it certainly is more than an incremental innovation attempt. It really should not be blown off as easily as some people are doing until we all spend some serious time with it. I really hope we see google and MSFT make similar attempts at innovation in this market because competition should be embraced not used as a club by one one fanboy to bash another.

I'll wait for the movie.
 
Amazing

People, even on this board, still have the ability to amaze.

Apple doesn't do a big change and then another big change, they have an iteration. The 4S is just that but with both much better software plus a major speed bump and better antenna.

Having a bigger screen isn't necessarily better if the resulting form factor doesn't fit in a pocket as well as the 4/4S. Apple doesn't release stuff until they are pretty certain its ready. The leaks we've heard to date indicate production issues plus the A6 processor AND the LTE chips will be ready next year...soooooooo.

This company will make a ton of cash and sell millions of what will prove to be a very good phone.

Quit complaining :D
 
People, even on this board, still have the ability to amaze.

Apple doesn't do a big change and then another big change, they have an iteration. The 4S is just that but with both much better software plus a major speed bump and better antenna.

Still pathetic how they're going to leave all the iPhone 4 users out in the cold with Siri. The App functioned perfectly fine before it was pulled and I seriously doubt Siri in iOS5 wouldn't function smoothly on either a 3GS or 4. It's not nice to expect us to force us to upgrade just so we can use Siri without a jailbreak. Not nice at all.
 
I will get the 4S now and then the "5S" equivalent in ~2 years. For me it will be brand new regardless of how much better it is than the iPhone "5."
 
You'd think people would learn how Apple works... iPhone 5 won't be out for at least 8 months or so, and when it's out, people will be pissed iPhone 6 wasn't released...

That's ridiculous. Compared to the other phones on the market the iPhone 4S really was not built to be competitive. I think the Apple loyalist will find a way to defend it no matter what but say what you will spec for spec (hardware wise) the iPhone 4S falls short compared to the competition.
 
That's ridiculous. Compared to the other phones on the market the iPhone 4S really was not built to be competitive. I think the Apple loyalist will find a way to defend it no matter what but say what you will spec for spec (hardware wise) the iPhone 4S falls short compared to the competition.

Must be a lot of loyalist. The lines will be around the block. All races. All ages. All walks of life. With all types of varying incomes.
Specs or no specs, at the end of the day all that matters is if Apple makes money.
 
I happen to agree with you. By the OP's own logic, since newer/better Android phones are rolling out "every week", then the poor soul who buys a 'Droid tomorrow will be sadly obsolete in 2 to 7 days.

Happy 4S users will have (imho) AT LEAST 8 months "on top" to enjoy the best, most robust, most polished, reliable & consistent mobile OS experience before better iOS hardware is available. Folks that want to point at numbers and vaporesque network speeds can feel free to move along.

Had this phone been named the "5", and had sexy tapered edges, most of this discussion wouldn't be happening.

I want a phone that WORKS, doesn't feel like junk, and doesn't cause me to worry about malware/etc when buying apps. I could care LESS about proc ghz or internal memory. That is about as relevant as "watts" when buying a stereo.

I'll be happily replacing my 3GS this Friday at 12:01 PDT...


What he said
 
What he said

Agreed.

The whole smartphone world wants to be Apple. No one wants to be Google. Google's got a gaggle of garbage.

Just three things to remember:

Google Gaggle Garbage

GGG
 
Last edited:
Within 6 months, the 4s will be outdated. The A5 is a great addition but processors keep improving at a remarkable rate. And the A5 was already implemented in the ipad2 several months earlier. And though its not confirmed, I'm guessing that it only has 512 MB of ram. Thats only enough because of IOS. Those who buy the 4S will find themselves with a terrible case of buyer's remorse when the next update comes along.
 
Getting really tired of people bashing iPhone and especially the 4s because it doesn't look different. I think if apple thought that they had a better design they would've done it. Honestly, I don't want the teardrop design with cheap plastic iPod touch-esc volume buttons, thinner "it will crumble in your hand design, and such. I want something of substance. I want quality, sturdy build quality. And I want innovations such as Siri. Finally, if you don't like it, don't buy it, leave this forum, and have a grand ole time over in Android land. I'm open minded. But I come here for iPhone discussion, not endless complaining about how you wanted a bigger screen and something that looked different. It's got the highest specs of all phones, double that with apples software optimisations for performance, years of support and software updates, the ecosystem, and cool features like Siri, you've got a he'll of a phone. So, please, just stop the bickering. I'm tired of it, and I just, as many others do, want to enjoy my phone.

I miss Steve.
 
Why? Now it is less than a year to next fall. This is a better quarter to release for them anyway. Who knows what they will do, but there is no reason to expect the fall to be damaging.

Where in the world are you getting this? Spring, Summer, Fall or Winter it doesn't matter when a phone is launched. What matters is the phone, the marketing and how many people are available to upgrade to the phone.

Ok, I'm not sure where you two went with what I said, but I was not implying that the season of a launch has anything to do with how well the iPhone sales will do. And I certainly did not say that Fall release was damaging at all.

What I said was that I hope they don't keep the 4S around for another year (hence the iPhone 5/6 being released in Fall 2012). I really want to get the redesigned iPhone 5/6 soon before my 3GS gives up, so I personally want them to release the redesigned iPhone in Summer or even Spring so I don't have to wait that long.

That's all I said and meant. Didn't even imply that Fall release will be damaging. What I implied is that the 4S release is damaging since iPhone 4 owners won't have that big of a reason to upgrade to 4S. Keep in mind that most of the record breaking sales of 4 were because of iPhone owners upgrading to the new iPhone. Not new iPhone customers.

But let's see.
 
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Goldinboy17 said:
People, even on this board, still have the ability to amaze.

Apple doesn't do a big change and then another big change, they have an iteration. The 4S is just that but with both much better software plus a major speed bump and better antenna.

Still pathetic how they're going to leave all the iPhone 4 users out in the cold with Siri. The App functioned perfectly fine before it was pulled and I seriously doubt Siri in iOS5 wouldn't function smoothly on either a 3GS or 4. It's not nice to expect us to force us to upgrade just so we can use Siri without a jailbreak. Not nice at all.

The siri app has only a fraction of the capabilities of what it has in the s4. They need more power to run this cutting edge state of the art technology that no other smartphone is close to having.

It is only possible because the combined hardware upgrade and the software advancements. In a couple of years siri like technology will drive all smartphones and people will say apple didn't invent it and they had it on their android before.

I am saying this now so I can refer back to it and say no you didn't have it before and yes apple did invent the integrated smart phone voice recognition and control system that is in all smartphones in 2016.

Samsung will have it's own version called Sori
 
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sinsin07 said:
What he said

Agreed.

The whole smartphone world wants to be Apple. No one wants to be Google. Google's got a gaggle of garbage.

Just three things to remember:

Google Gaggle Garbage

GGG

Google does not want to be google. That is why android will be eol by google in the next 36 months as google focuses on a chrome os to go with their exclusive mmi hardware smartphones.

People invested in the android ecosystem will be screwed in 5 years unless amazon brings them in
 
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