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"AS FAST" ??

What are Apple tryna to do us ??

If their up to speed now, what were the previous phones like ? :p

So, its not only performance we're going by here, its also "our screen is faster than YOUR screen...." type responses.

bunch of kids.... !!

*puts Apple in the naughty corner* You've been a bad Apple.

I will actually defend the defendant here and say, "Its actually slower with iOS7" although i do have a 4S.

The reason is, the translucent stuff is slowing it down,,, bringing up the new task switcher. for one.and swiping..

I would actually say the opposite here in every regard, Maybe they meant, "faster on an iPhone 5"

(though thats kinda one-sided isn't it) ?
 
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The iPhone's keyboard is so responsive, I don't understand why people desire a 3rd party keyboard so badly.

Yeah I agree! What do you mean though that people desire a third party keyboard? Meaning the ability to use keyboard "plug-ins" of the so called "schwipe" keyboard like how Android has options to download? I owned this years 2013 Google Nexus 7 for about a month, before I sold it to a friend. It just wasn't my thing. I imagine someday that iOS will have widgets, which is what I wanted to try for Android. It was cool for a while, but having an iPad and an iPhone, I didn't ever use it.
 
I don't know where you've been, but people mention it all the time. People certainly noticed it, as evidenced by how many people are posting in this topic about how this finally explains what they've known all along. I certainly noticed lag on my 3G, which was much improved on the 4S, but still noticeable. In the early days Android was notoriously laggy, mentioned frequently in comparison to iOS, and while they've improved somewhat they are apparently still behind Apple on the latency race. Now, we actually have real numbers to prove it, and a third party test that can continue to measure as new devices come along.

Admittedly, I only jumped into the smartphone scene in 2009, when I got a Blackberry Storm (gaaakkkkk). I never noticed anyone talking about lag or improvements in response when I jumped into the Apple world with the iPhone 4 two years later. Nothing about how much smoother touch was on the 4 compared to the 3GS.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just never noticed. And I haven't seen it brought up all that often since. As for Android, I've played with a number of devices since, and I've never noticed a moment where pressing an icon or link failed to respond, or the screen felt like it was lagging too far behind my finger press. What I did notice were hitches and occasional breaks in framerate, which can look like input lag, but isn't quite.

If you really think about it, it's almost impossible to tap a link on anything that has -200ms response time, and have it fail to pick it up. Think of it like this, the average amount of time it takes for a person to complete a single blink is around 200-400ms. For a press to fail to connect, you'd have to jab your finger at the screen and have it make full contact in about one half to one quarter of the amount of time it takes you to blink. No one presses a screen that fast. Hell, I'm not even sure it's physically possible. Your average casual press probably takes about 400-750ms. Not quite a second, just....boomp. And there you go.

The only other upside to a low response time is scrolling, like I showed in that video above above. And much like I said, it only becomes an issue in a select few situations. For the most part, no one notices or even cares that the screen isn't scrolling 1:1 to your finger.

55ms vs. 115 is such a small difference from a general use perspective that it's nearly nonexistant. Yeah, it's there. Yeah, it'll show up in tests. No, it doesn't make one device feel super speedy and another slow, laggy crap.

I'd like to think you're not just a troll, but it's obvious you haven't watched the video or read anything from various companies (like Oculus VR) who have studied input latency extensively to understand perception and improve user experience.

Just saw this. I'm gonna say that this is somewhat comparing apples to oranges. See, your eyes move very, very quickly, add in balance, and the way you expect things to move, and you have a situation where even the tiniest discrepancy can make for a lot of people getting sick and throwing up everywhere because they're getting motion sick. You absolutely have to have as low a latency as possible to achieve realistic results when it comes to stuff like the Oculus VR.

Flipping through the springboard and webpages on the iPhone? Even at 55ms, you've got to contend with a goodly bit of lag while scrolling. Yet you never notice it because it's not directly tied to your perception of the world around you. Most of the time you're tracking words or icons with your eyes, rather than how they relate to the position of your finger.
 
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I love how people are so limited in their perspectives that they actually full heartedly believe that "unless I don't notice anything, this is all just plain ********". One just have to face the fact that each and every human individual are different, for some GUI optimisation and touch latency like this might be a huge deal for their user experience, for others it might not make any difference whatsoever.

For some the openness and the possibility to manipulate every aspect of their phone, being able to install SwiftKey and whatnot is more important, for others having a more optimised user interface, lower latency and a more streamlined experience is more important. We are all different, we all react differently to different aspects with products, people need to understand that there is no right or wrong in this game, there is no such thing as the ultimate phone, the ultimate operating system for each and everyone of us so instead of bragging about what makes your choice superior to everyone else, why not start respecting other human beings and their device of choice?


Unless all phones starts to be 99,99% identical, and they all run the exact same software, optimised for the exact same purpose there will always be variations in what people prefer to use because no human is identical to another so obviously we will all feel and react differently to different hardware, different devices and different software and there is nothing wrong about that whatsoever, and everyone should respect the person sitting besides them even though they may prefer and prioritize differently than yourself.
 
If you really think about it, it's almost impossible to tap a link on anything that has -200ms response time, and have it fail to pick it up. Think of it like this, the average amount of time it takes for a person to complete a single blink is around 200-400ms. For a press to fail to connect, you'd have to jab your finger at the screen and have it make full contact in about one half to one quarter of the amount of time it takes you to blink. No one presses a screen that fast. Hell, I'm not even sure it's physically possible. Your average casual press probably takes about 400-750ms. Not quite a second, just....boomp. And there you go.

This paragraph here tells me you still don't get it. Input latency doesn't mean the device doesn't pick up your input if you're too quick. Input latency means all your inputs, regardless of speed or frequency, are delayed by a set amount.

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I love how people are so limited in their perspectives that they actually full heartedly believe that "unless I don't notice anything, this is all just plain ********". One just have to face the fact that each and every human individual are different, for some GUI optimisation and touch latency like this might be a huge deal for their user experience, for others it might not make any difference whatsoever.

It reminds me of the whole Retina vs. non-Retina thing, which for some people is still going on. They insist it makes no difference. I think some people just have stupid eyes :p. More likely I think they just don't want to admit Apple's done something better, since as soon as somebody else comes out with a phone with a slightly higher DPI they start trashing Apple's products again.
 
What? In what way is iOS far more advanced than android? Putting the android vs iOS debate aside... each OS is very similar in what they do. You make it seem like you're comparing Windows 95 to Windows 8.

You can't even recognise the difference between a software debate and a hardware debate... Learn to read articles thoroughly before giving your expert comments...

And I won't even get into the software debate...
 
Secret sauce

I can picture Steve Jobs obsessing over this, haranguing the engineers to get response latency down.

It says something that Apple has never bragged about this spec: it's probably been much more valuable to them in the marketplace as a contributor to the "je ne sais quoi" of the iPhone than it is as an objectively defined benchmark at which competitors can take aim.

I wonder what other objective benchmarks affect user experience that Apple doesn't tout -- because knowing them can only draw the attention of the competition!
 
Its amazing how most people never noticed this, but put a post up and all the sudden people are claiming they can notice the huge difference. Got a Iphone 5 and a HTC one, and never noticed any difference. Actaully never noticed any difference between all the iphones or ipads I had.

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This paragraph here tells me you still don't get it. Input latency doesn't mean the device doesn't pick up your input if you're too quick. Input latency means all your inputs, regardless of speed or frequency, are delayed by a set amount.

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It reminds me of the whole Retina vs. non-Retina thing, which for some people is still going on. They insist it makes no difference. I think some people just have stupid eyes :p. More likely I think they just don't want to admit Apple's done something better, since as soon as somebody else comes out with a phone with a slightly higher DPI they start trashing Apple's products again.

Ummm given this is not obvious like the retina v non-retina debate, I do not see the comparrision.

Android flagship models ship with 1080P displays, I doubt there is debate happening, if anything. I guess you missed the debates on here where apple fans were justifying the ipad mini display v retina, its not just non apple fans.
 
That seems to be the main sticking point for most converts.

It's been proven that with only 1gb of ram, and the A7 as a 1.2ghz dual core processor, the new iPhone 5S is much snappier than even the Samsung Exynos 5 Octa. I'm an Android user, but it's funny how most love to tout specs, and bash the iPhone. Until the iPhone is out on top. I'll admit, I'm waiting on the arrival of the Note 3 before I decide between it, and the iPhone 5S. Either way it's amazing that with the Specs the iPhone has it manages to have blazing performance.
 
You apparently have no ability to perceive time and/or move super slow, way below the average range for humans.

100 ms is 1/10 of a second. Pretty easy for a normal person to take an action in less time than that.

Since the blink of your eye is 300ms to 400 ms, I'd like to see you do anything faster than that? I know I can't.

"Pretty easy for a normal person to take an action in less time than that."
Ok genius, what can do do in 100ms? I'd really like to know.
 
What can you do in 100 ms?

Since the blink of your eye is 300ms to 400 ms, I'd like to see you do anything faster than that? I know I can't.

"Pretty easy for a normal person to take an action in less time than that."
Ok genius, what can do do in 100ms? I'd really like to know.

Try this: call up your phone or tablet's stopwatch. Press start and then stop as quickly as you can. I'm using an iPad 2 running iOS 7 and I can get as low as 0.06 seconds, which is 60ms (milliseconds). My average is somewhere between 0.07 and 0.08 seconds.
 
Since the blink of your eye is 300ms to 400 ms, I'd like to see you do anything faster than that? I know I can't.

"Pretty easy for a normal person to take an action in less time than that."
Ok genius, what can do do in 100ms? I'd really like to know.

The comparison to a blink of an eye is not that useful here imho. A movie playing back 24 frames per second has a ~42ms space between each frame for example. If that was 300ms then that would mean 3.3 frames per second, definitely possible to perceive and extremely choppy.

I created three files with two sample clicks separated by 100, 200 and 400ms respectively. Output example from 100ms:

Code:
File:           100ms.wav
File type ID:   WAVE
Data format:     1 ch,  44100 Hz, 'lpcm' (0x0000000C) 16-bit little-endian signed integer
                no channel layout.
estimated duration: 0.100045 sec
audio bytes: 8824
audio packets: 4412

100ms
200ms
400ms
 
I'm glad someone has actually put some statistics to this now. This is the single biggest reason I switched from an Android phone to iPhone. The "Feel". Apple has the touchscreen feel right. Android phones have gotten better but still aren't there....and I suspect it has nothing to do with the OS, but that's just speculation.
 
I'm glad someone has actually put some statistics to this now. This is the single biggest reason I switched from an Android phone to iPhone. The "Feel". Apple has the touchscreen feel right. Android phones have gotten better but still aren't there....and I suspect it has nothing to do with the OS, but that's just speculation.

Well if you're talking about feel that's one reason why I use my Galaxy for home and office use instead of my works provided iPhone i.e. It feels and it is just too small.

When are Apple going to wake up to this issue. Whilst I agree a lot of the android phones have gone overboard with screen size, I'm afraid today's consumers want something a tad larger than 4 inches, especially the Far East market.
 
Doesn't surprise me at all. The iPhone is simply a more polished experience. I doubt that Android and other phone makers will come close anytime soon.
 
Yet another reason why I can't wait to ditch my Galaxy S4. I'll be a proud owner of a new 32gb space gray 5s tomorrow!
 
That's framerate, aka the amount of time the screen refreshes in a single second, not response time. Yeah, the human eye can detect up to (I believe) 73 frame per second, with 60 being around the max you can be consciously aware of. 15 frames per second is considerably less smooth than 30, with 60, while being visibly smoother, isn't quite as dramatic a difference to 30 it as 30 is to 15.

But that's neither here nor there.

What we're talking about here is repsonse time. The amount of time it takes for the screen to detect your touch, and convert it to an accepted input by the computer. 115ms isn't exactly fast, but it's not so slow anyone would notice it unless brought up in conversation. You'd only notice the difference between it and the iPhone 5 if you had them side by side, and were flicking your fingers around on the screen.
Actually, this is talked about all the time by gamers. You've never seen discussions about latency issues causing people to lose at a game? Either because gamer A has a faster internet connection or a faster graphics card, the higher framerates allowing for better response time, both of the human and the software.

Also a major point when people are trying to get the fastest possible time in a game. It's all relevant. Heck, I get faster times in my Kakuro game (not exactly a FPS) on iOS because of faster screen response and processor in the i5 vs my old i4. My brain didn't get faster. (slower, if anything...god, I'm tired)
 
Yet another reason why I can't wait to ditch my Galaxy S4. I'll be a proud owner of a new 32gb space gray 5s tomorrow!

Really, wow! I could agree with most of what Apple manufacture but not the iPhone. Until they have a radical re-think I can only see their global market share continue to diminish.

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Oops I forgot, when specs arent in your favor they dont matter all of a sudden. Way to go! :rolleyes:

Where have you read that I'm hung up about specs?
 
Its amazing how most people never noticed this, but put a post up and all the sudden people are claiming they can notice the huge difference. Got a Iphone 5 and a HTC one, and never noticed any difference. Actaully never noticed any difference between all the iphones or ipads I had.

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Ummm given this is not obvious like the retina v non-retina debate, I do not see the comparrision.

Android flagship models ship with 1080P displays, I doubt there is debate happening, if anything. I guess you missed the debates on here where apple fans were justifying the ipad mini display v retina, its not just non apple fans.
"I doubt"??? So, according to the first paragraph, you haven't read any of the posts (anywhere on the internet) about lag and latency differences between phones and tablets over the last 6 years? There have been many. And now you say "I doubt" there are debates?

Not reading the internet, then coming on here and saying it doesn't exist is pretty bad. Maybe you should start reading it a bit, before you proclaim you know what it says.
 
Since the blink of your eye is 300ms to 400 ms, I'd like to see you do anything faster than that? I know I can't.

"Pretty easy for a normal person to take an action in less time than that."
Ok genius, what can do do in 100ms? I'd really like to know.

Blink of an eye doesn't mean much; the brain is pretty good at predicting what happens in that brief period of time, so what we perceive is actually a much smaller time than 400ms

We can certainly perceive input much quicker than that. Take any video you have, and add in a 50ms delay to the video. I would imagine you'd notice the difference. It's also very easy for someone to tell the difference between 30 and 60fps, which means you're perceiving a difference as small as 16ms.
 
Since the blink of your eye is 300ms to 400 ms, I'd like to see you do anything faster than that? I know I can't.

"Pretty easy for a normal person to take an action in less time than that."
Ok genius, what can do do in 100ms? I'd really like to know.
You don't seem to have much experience with latency.

I've had a really bad sound card in my PC years ago. So I had 100 ms latency when I tried to play my guitar. If you seriously think that 100 ms (The tenth of a second!) latency is not much or even unnoticeably short, try playing a guitar with a latency of 100 ms. It was impossible, it felt like I was having a heart attack.

Actually, I can't even believe that anyone who used an iPhone and an Android device in his life didn't notice the tremendous difference the two phones have when it comes to the touch screen. I remember playing "Bad piggies" on a Samsung Note 2, and when I dragged some of the parts over the screen you could see them lagging behind my finger badly. It was a wholly different experience on my iPhone 5.

But I guess, some people just don't care about things like that. Whatever floats your boat.
 
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