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Exactly. No reason to panic or return your unit in hopes for a new one. If a software patch doesn't come out by 7.1 then it's possibly a hardware issue and Apple would expect many phones to be returned within the 1 year warranty period.

In the UK under the "Sale of Goods" act, items that were not sold as fit and proper are covered for up to 6 years. So even if this were a hardware problem and you don't notice for 2-3 years, you should still have rights for a replacement or repair that works properly.
 
If the numbers are not too large, I can see Apple keeping up with replacements. But I could also see them, at some time, setting a policy regarding the degree of error that would be "acceptable." Like the policy on hot pixels on a laptop screen. I can't see them replacing millions of phones. (not that I agree, just saying I can't see if happening). In this regard, Antennagate seems kind of tame--just give out a free case!
 
Exactly. No reason to panic or return your unit in hopes for a new one. If a software patch doesn't come out by 7.1 then it's possibly a hardware issue and Apple would expect many phones to be returned within the 1 year warranty period.

In the UK under the "Sale of Goods" act, items that were not sold as fit and proper are covered for up to 6 years. So even if this were a hardware problem and you don't notice for 2-3 years, you should still have rights for a replacement or repair that works properly.

that is why i am waiting for the software patch.
 
Replacement iPhone 5s

ok guys. I just received my iPhone5s from China (Week 42/ Factory C3).
Was sent Saturday - came today. Incredibly fast. Should have been here on Wednesday. But it still came from China. Wow!

Facts:
Unfortunately it is a little worse than my first iPhone 5s.

Apple Level App
iPhone 4s (mine) -> 0°
iPhone 4s (girlfriend) -> 0°
iPhone 5s #1 -> 1°
iPhone 5s #2 ->

Dual Level App - I did not calibrate in the app
I suppose this App is a little bit more precise in measurements
iPhone 4s (mine) -> 0,2°
iPhone 4s (girlfriend) -> 0,2°
iPhone 5s #1 -> 2,5°
iPhone 5s #2 -> 4,2°

So my conclusion is - for now:
- my first one is better
- I wait until tomorrow if an update fixes both of them (if that is the case I would keep the 1st one I guess - but that is probably a psychological thing)
- if the (presumed) update does not fix anything or there is no update at all I might send them both back - I guess.....

Sad, cause otherwise it is a great phone...
 
Replacement iPhone 5s

ok guys. I just received my iPhone5s from China (Week 42/ Factory C3).
Was sent Saturday - came today. Incredibly fast. Should have been here on Wednesday. But it still came from China. Wow!

Facts:
Unfortunately it is a little worse than my first iPhone 5s.

Apple Level App
iPhone 4s (mine) -> 0°
iPhone 4s (girlfriend) -> 0°
iPhone 5s #1 -> 1°
iPhone 5s #2 ->

Dual Level App - I did not calibrate in the app
I suppose this App is a little bit more precise in measurements
iPhone 4s (mine) -> 0,2°
iPhone 4s (girlfriend) -> 0,2°
iPhone 5s #1 -> 2,5°
iPhone 5s #2 -> 4,2°

So my conclusion is - for now:
- my first one is better
- I wait until tomorrow if an update fixes both of them (if that is the case I would keep the 1st one I guess - but that is probably a psychological thing)
- if the (presumed) update does not fix anything or there is no update at all I might send them both back - I guess.....

Sad, cause otherwise it is a great phone...

Nuts!! I think more and more it looks as if we will be hoping for an software fix
 
Before people start getting wet panties thinking this will be fixed next week consider this. If it was hardware, or indeed if Apple were willing to fix this in factory... Wouldn't it be done by now?

Let's accept it. Stop returning phones and wait for the fix.
 
Before people start getting wet panties thinking this will be fixed next week consider this. If it was hardware, or indeed if Apple were willing to fix this in factory... Wouldn't it be done by now?

Let's accept it. Stop returning phones and wait for the fix.

Let's accept it? LOL.
 
Replacement iPhone 5s

ok guys. I just received my iPhone5s from China (Week 42/ Factory C3).
Was sent Saturday - came today. Incredibly fast. Should have been here on Wednesday. But it still came from China. Wow!

Facts:
Unfortunately it is a little worse than my first iPhone 5s.

Apple Level App
iPhone 4s (mine) -> 0°
iPhone 4s (girlfriend) -> 0°
iPhone 5s #1 -> 1°
iPhone 5s #2 ->

Dual Level App - I did not calibrate in the app
I suppose this App is a little bit more precise in measurements
iPhone 4s (mine) -> 0,2°
iPhone 4s (girlfriend) -> 0,2°
iPhone 5s #1 -> 2,5°
iPhone 5s #2 -> 4,2°

So my conclusion is - for now:
- my first one is better
- I wait until tomorrow if an update fixes both of them (if that is the case I would keep the 1st one I guess - but that is probably a psychological thing)
- if the (presumed) update does not fix anything or there is no update at all I might send them both back - I guess.....

Sad, cause otherwise it is a great phone...

your phone was off by 1 degree and you returned it?????? was there something else wrong?
 
I guess I got lucky. My 64 GB 5S SG reads 0 deg on its side. No issues with tilt-steering on games or panorama sweeps either. To me, that's what really matters.
 
your phone was off by 1 degree and you returned it?????? was there something else wrong?

Well,
1) I have not returned it yet. I just ordered a replacement and wait til tomorrow. If I keep one of those it might be the one with 1° offset (#1).
So I have 2 of those right here.

2) I wanted to keep it and prolong my return period but Apple did not allow that. So they offered me a replacement which I accepted to be able to get a full refund. So now I can test both devices tomorrow if they issue a software update - but I am still able to get a refund.

3) I use my iPhone often with 2 apps for professional photography (Helios Sun Position Calculator and Sun Seeker) to track the sun. Even 1° can make a difference of 1/2 hour to 45 minutes inaccuracy - I know because I tested my iPhone 4s on different locations around Europe and Tenerife and it was dead on. For me an invaluable tool because I always have it with me - as opposed to devices that are designed specifically for that purpose.

4) If I spend 900 EUR for a device I expect it to be - at least - equal in build quality and functionality. I hope it is even better (which it is for the most part). But I don't want to step back in quality.

5) Since NOBODY - neither from Apple or somewhere else - can make an accurate assessment if it is either a software or hardware problem, I don't want to risk to own a faulty device for that amount of money.
I'd rather have none.

6) From the past I know that Apple has a generous return policy if you are in the 14day window. This year I had to return 3 devices (iPad Mini, iMac & Macbook Pro) for various serious issues. I am not happy with this situation because I'd rather buy it and use it.
But you are OVER your 14day window you give them back your power as a customer because their track record for dealing with technical issues in the past - see "Antennagate" iPhone 4 - is less than ideal. That's why I waited for the 4s 2 years ago.

7) Different level apps gave me different offsets.

And I have no reason to believe that they - proactively - admit to this issue. I guess - if at all - they make a silent change/update/calibration in their factories.
From their point of view it is like:
After all the iPhone 5s sells excellent. Why make PR disaster by admitting it publicly and irritate happy customers that don't know about this problem.

I waited for the 5s for the exact same reason. I wanted to avoid the growing pains. Instead the added a new one.
Admittedly it is a small issue - but still it is one...to me. And apparently to many others here too. Otherwise this thread would not be as large.

If somebody thinks he can live with it. Fine by me. I don't judge people. It is - apart fromt that issue - a great device.

My 2 cents.

----------

I guess I got lucky. My 64 GB 5S SG reads 0 deg on its side. No issues with tilt-steering on games or panorama sweeps either. To me, that's what really matters.

thanks for the info.
can you tell which production week and factory ?
 
thanks for the info.
can you tell which production week and factory ?

Gladly:

Colour: Space Gray
Production year: 2013
Production week: 37 (September)
Model introduced: 2013
Capacity: 64GB
Memory - flavour: xx
Factory: DN (China, Chengdu - Foxconn)
 
But you are OVER your 14day window you give them back your power as a customer because their track record for dealing with technical issues in the past - see "Antennagate" iPhone 4 - is less than ideal. That's why I waited for the 4s 2 years ago.
I fully agree and after reading most of these >70 pages on this topic I decided against buying an iPhone 5S for the time being.

I'll be in Alaska for business at the end of this week, and although this would provide me with a great opportunity to buy a new iPhone without VAT/Sales Tax, I think I'll let this opportunity pass.

Apple is simply not reliable and customer friendly enough to take the risk of owning a faulty device for $849,- which I then can not return because I do not live in the US. :mad:
 
Until this gets fixed it's useless to ask for production week and factory. We know by now that week 42 units exhibit this issue as well. They are all borked, either if it's a miscalibration problem or a soldering one.

Most likely the error will follow a gaussian bell curve with the extremes being -/+6 degrees (or whatever that 85mg bias translates to) with some devices being perfectly calibrated and some really off.
 
Until this gets fixed it's useless to ask for production week and factory. We know by now that week 42 units exhibit this issue as well. They are all borked, either if it's a miscalibration problem or a soldering one.

Most likely the error will follow a gaussian bell curve with the extremes being -/+6 degrees (or whatever that 85mg bias translates to) with some devices being perfectly calibrated and some really off.


well, I tried to "connect the dots" between production date and factory.
The production date seems not to be relevant. But the factory might - maybe they have different standards or calibration methods or whatever...
But in the end I already spent too much time by having to deal with this issue than using my new phone. :D
 
But in the end I already spent too much time by having to deal with this issue than using my new phone. :D

Haha, me too. I'd love it to be fixed with software. I briefly visited the Berlin Apple Store over the weekend and it was so ridiculously busy - I don't fancy an Genius Bar appointment in there unless I really have to! :p
 
Hi everyone.
I want to make a small contribution to this very interesting thread.
The biggest question of every buyer/future buyer is about this problem being a hardware or software one.

Well I have good news and no so good news.
Eagle Jones from RealityCap had done a great job measuring the accelerometer output, and he found that those values had some "offset". This is an small amount of variation over the real value, and can be positive or negative and also would be different for each axis (x, y and z). So, if in a giving position, your iPhone 5S accelerometer should "read" 1g over one axis, it could actually read 1.05g or 0.95g. This variations are different from sensor to sensor and they depends of several manufacturing process.

The good news are that the sensor used (that is indeed a Bosch part, but we don't know which one: http://www.chipworks.com/components/com_wordpress/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/bosch.jpg), had a non-volatile memory were the offset compensation values could be stored.
Why this part wasn't calibrated at the iPhone assembly line we will never know.

The no so good news: some Apple staff had been recommending the DnD and charge procedure, but let me be clear on this: THAT WOULD NEVER WORK.
Your iPhone had an internal 3 AXIS accelerometer. If you left your iPhone lying flat and supposedly "trigger" the calibration by DnD and charge, you are, in the best of cases, calibrating A SINGLE AXIS. A flat up iPhone would only been using the z axis. Remember that each axis have their own offset (negative or positive). In order to fully calibrate the iPhone you need to measure the difference between gravity and the accelerometer output in vertical, landscape and flat positions AND those should be as close as perfect as they could be, otherwise you would end with wrong compensation values.

You may asking why the above isn't a good news, since the sensor could be calibrated. Well, call me skeptic, but I hardly believe that Apple would admit any wrongdoing or that it would recommend hold the iPhone in 3 different positions while the sensor is calibrated. Neither we would see a recall.

Could this be fixed by a software update? This is a tricky question. If Apple "captures" devices assembled in every possible week or day they could, theoretically, measure the offset present in every accelerometer. iPhone's assembled near a single date should use accelerometer's manufactured in a small range of time, and, again theoretically, parts manufactured in a single batch should have similar characteristics. Based in those assumptions, is relatively easy to release a HARD CODED offset compensation, that would be applied in function of the building date of the iPhone. Of course this would be a single iOS 7 release, but internally they can customize what it does (in the same way that they apply the yellow wallpaper to the yellow iPhone 5C and no to another).

Problem with the HARD CODED offset compensation? It would be far from perfect, but supposedly better than the current deviation. At least it doesn't requires that the user put the iPhone in different orientations.

The second alternative to Apple, is do nothing and let the developers to build calibration routines inside their apps.

I want to suppose that the iPhone's being assembled now are properly calibrated.
Is important to keep this thread alive, and even more important, that the new owners publish their building date to confirm the above.

Disclaimer: all the stated above is my best guess on the issue. As I don't work for Apple, neither I had access to their software or hardware, I cannot assure or guarantee that my conclusions are valid.

I've already returned my 5s so can't try this, but maybe someone else already has or could give it a go.

Has anyone tried placing their phone, say, on its long side in a level and plumb position, and then doing the DND-charge procedure to see if that would at least properly calibrate that axis?

If so, then maybe doing long-side, then short-side, then flat, would result in a well-calibrated device (although obviously a PITA to accomplish).
 
well, I tried to "connect the dots" between production date and factory.
The production date seems not to be relevant. But the factory might - maybe they have different standards or calibration methods or whatever...
But in the end I already spent too much time by having to deal with this issue than using my new phone. :D

I think it's just dumb luck. For example if you buy a watch, there's a slim chance when you get it that it will show the correct time. Likewise there's a chance the sensors will be correct off the shelf without calibration, but it's slim.
 
Until this gets fixed it's useless to ask for production week and factory. We know by now that week 42 units exhibit this issue as well. They are all borked, either if it's a miscalibration problem or a soldering one.

Most likely the error will follow a gaussian bell curve with the extremes being -/+6 degrees (or whatever that 85mg bias translates to) with some devices being perfectly calibrated and some really off.


I said this back when the thread was below 1000 responses. You had people either returning them left and right (cherry picking) or you have arm chair engineers trying to figure out what the problem were with no way for a permanent fix. It’s useless to see someone with a perfect leveled 5S because they got lucky.

There are 3 options here.
1. Apple will release a software update to address the issue (most likely). Wouldn’t be surprised if we get 7.1 tomorrow.
2. Apple will introduce a tighter calibration process in manufacturing. Can see this but what about the millions sold? Maybe recalibration stations in Apple stores.
3. Do nothing because most people don’t notice/don’t care.
 
Still can't believe people are exchanging their units over this issue. Have they not read any of these posts? Either keep it and wait for a possible fix or return it.
 
Still can't believe people are exchanging their units over this issue. Have they not read any of these posts? Either keep it and wait for a possible fix or return it.
Agree, or hold off buying one until there is more clarity (either a software update or a statement* from Apple) on the issue.

*) I realize that I'm being very naive here... ;)

My 4S will do juuuust fine for another few months.
 
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If Steve Jobs was still there, he would have asked his team of engineers what the accelerometer was supposed to do. When they provided him with the answer, he would have said "So why the F#@K doesn't it do that?".
 
Has anyone noticed issues when using the iPhone 5s for navigation? I figure as long as the calibration error doesn't adversely affect my Navigon or Apple/Google Maps Navigation and show me driving on a service road when I'm actually driving on the interstate, I can live with my life being off -2 degrees.
 
Has anyone noticed issues when using the iPhone 5s for navigation? I figure as long as the calibration error doesn't adversely affect my Navigon or Apple/Google Maps Navigation and show me driving on a service road when I'm actually driving on the interstate, I can live with my life being off -2 degrees.

This is a great question. Perhaps deserves a short thread of it's own. I am in the same position. Never use the level or compass, nor play games, but rely on the iPhone to run Navigon.
 
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