iPhone 5se vs iPhone 5 Photo (Supposedly)

[Max(IT)]

Oh for goodness sake start reading what I posted.

Whether you want to live in denial or not, when compared to the leaps in processing shown with the 3G to the 3GS, the 4 to the 4S, the 4S to the 5, the 5 to the 5S and the 6 to the 6S, the leap from the 5S to the 6 is minimal in comparison. Even the charts you posted show the major leap from the 5 to the 5S. Small increases like the ones you just highlighted are just that - small increases compared to the huge gains on many other iPhone generations.

Screen Shot 2016-01-26 at 10.23.19 AM by oldmacs, on Flickr

If you want a different representation user Jsameds posted this earlier

See what happens between the 5S and 6 compared to the other generations?

Oh for goodness sake stop using Geekbench as the only benchmark to evaluate a phone!
Btw we saw similar increments going from 4S to 5... It's the way Apple tick tock cycle works.
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Yes,

But you don' t seem to understand that the 2gb of the a8 will affect the octane benchmark considerably. It will make a difference compared to a 1gb a8.

And with the graphics benchmarks: you keep comparing scores of 1136x640 vs 1136x640, (5 to 5s) and 1136x640 vs 1334x750(5s vs 6).

That is a bad comparison, a 2gb a8 in a 1136x640 iphone will get much higher scores than the same soc in a 1334x750 iphone.

You just don' t want to get it.

Perhaps you will be satisfied with a 1gb, 1 core a9 soc? Just because of the name?
[doublepost=1453766517][/doublepost]

Ehmm higher res displays??? More pixels to push? Just look at the off screen scores posted earlier.

Yes, he just don't want to get it.
He never tried an iPad mini 4 with an A8 and 2 Gb and he keep using GB as the only benchmark available.
I showed game tests where the iPhone 6 DOUBLED the iPhone 5S frame rate but I just ignored it.
He's a victim of the marketing, where if you don't have the latest and greatest you're doomed.

 

[colorfuel]

what rumors ?
[doublepost=1453762095][/doublepost]
A8 processor is an improved A7, where memory latency is one of the improved aspects.
NANDs performance was dramatically improved, so it plain false to say that the move from 5S to 6 wasn't a noticeable one.
Even if you discharge NAND performance, benchmarks like SPECint2000 (focused ONLY on the cpu) showed improvements ranging from 20% up to 55% , hardly a "minor" speed up.
Offscreen graphics tests, not dependent from the display resolution, showed differences like this:

and you keep trying to dismiss that as irrelevant ...

Those are gpu benchmarks.

 

[Max(IT)]

Those are gpu benchmarks.

Reality check: in a SoC there is a GPU. Actually the GPU is a very important component of it.

Btw SPECint2000 is a CPU only test and as I said several times it showed increments between 20 and 55%.

 

[colorfuel]

Apple themselves have stated 50% in gpu and 25% increase in cpu performance. Of course you are going to get a little more or less depending on specific tasks. But it is clear that the increase wasnt nearly as clear as it was from A5 to A6, from A6 to A7 or from A8 to A9.

And it certainly isnt nearly enough for people who want to upgrade their 2+1/2 year old iPhone 5S.

Also, now that the A9 and 2GB Ram are becoming standard, developers and Apple themselves are going to make use of it and are going to leave 1GB RAM and older devices out of certain functionalities.

 

[oldmacs]

Oh for goodness sake stop using Geekbench as the only benchmark to evaluate a phone!
Btw we saw similar increments going from 4S to 5... It's the way Apple tick tock cycle works.

The increase from the 4S to the 5 was much bigger than the 5S to the 6. All your benchmarks also show the 5S to the 6 being a small difference.

 

[Jsameds]

The last 5 pages of this thread:

 

[oldmacs]

Yes, he just don't want to get it.
He never tried an iPad mini 4 with an A8 and 2 Gb and he keep using GB as the only benchmark available.
I showed game tests where the iPhone 6 DOUBLED the iPhone 5S frame rate but I just ignored it.
He's a victim of the marketing, where if you don't have the latest and greatest you're doomed.

And you ignored everything that shows how small the difference between the 5s and 6 is. I am not s victim of anything, I am just someone who prefers to get as long as possible out of my hardware. 2 year old hardware is just not going to cut it for longevity, especially when that two year old hardware is not that much better than the 3 year old hardware it replaced. Had my current iPhone 5 had two year old hardware (iPhone 4) even if it had 1Gb of ram, it would be a disaster today.

 

[Max(IT)]

The increase from the 4S to the 5 was much bigger than the 5S to the 6. All your benchmarks also show the 5S to the 6 being a small difference.

And you ignored everything that shows how small the difference between the 5s and 6 is. I am not s victim of anything, I am just someone who prefers to get as long as possible out of my hardware. 2 year old hardware is just not going to cut it for longevity, especially when that two year old hardware is not that much better than the 3 year old hardware it replaced. Had my current iPhone 5 had two year old hardware (iPhone 4) even if it had 1Gb of ram, it would be a disaster today.

All my benchmarks showed tangible increments in performance, even TWICE the frame rate in some tests.
You are dismissing that as a minor upgrade, but it isn't.
And you are completely ignoring the point that we are speaking about an A8 with 2 Gb of RAM, on a 4" display, so even better than the iPhone 6.

 

[oldmacs]

All my benchmarks showed tangible increments in performance, even TWICE the frame rate in some tests.
You are dismissing that as a minor upgrade, but it isn't.
And you are completely ignoring the point that we are speaking about an A8 with 2 Gb of RAM, on a 4" display, so even better than the iPhone 6.

This is absolutely pointless if you're going to ignore the argument here. One last time: The improvements shown are minimal compared to the jumps we saw from the 4S to the 5, the 5 to the 5S and the 6 to the 6S. The 6 showed modest improvements over the 5S, as most of the improvements were in a new design amongst other non performance related improvements. Gains from a smaller screen will not be that great, and don't change the fact that the A8 will be 2 years old this year, and given the small gains over the A7, it will make for a phone which will not have the longevity many want.

 

[phositadc]

I'd rather have 2gb ram than an a9. I can live with milliseconds slower app load times. I cannot live with constant app reloads due to lack of ram. If it only has 1gb, I'm not buying it, regardless of processor.

 

[oldmacs]

I'd rather have 2gb ram than an a9. I can live with milliseconds slower app load times. I cannot live with constant app reloads due to lack of ram. If it only has 1gb, I'm not buying it, regardless of processor.

Definitely, I also would like 2GB of ram. I'd like 2GB of ram and an A9 as that combo will last longer than an A8 and 2GB of ram.

 

[colorfuel]

I'm in the same boat. I dont care whether I have to pay 150€ more or less for the phone, since I want to keep it for the next 3-4 years as I always do.

 

[oldmacs]

I'm in the same boat. I dont care whether I have to pay 150€ more or less for the phone, since I want to keep it for the next 3-4 years as I always do.

Yes I've had a good run with my iPhone 5, which is now getting onto 3.5 years old - if it had included hardware from 2 generations back (iPhone 4) even with double the ram like people are saying the A8 will have, my 5 would be hopeless at the moment.

 

[MacCubed]

Yes I've had a good run with my iPhone 5, which is now getting onto 3.5 years old - if it had included hardware from 2 generations back (iPhone 4) even with double the ram like people are saying the A8 will have, my 5 would be hopeless at the moment.

I went from a 4 to a 5 last year, I still have both of those phones. The 5 was working great, but battery life with my Apple Watch was terrible, so it was time to upgrade. I now have a 6S+ and love it. Phones have a much shorter life cycle than they should, but as newer phones' specs increase, the OSes become more demanding. It's still surprising that the iPad 2 and the iPhone 4S are still supported. iOS X should drop them though

 

[dannys1]

Because some of us like our iPhones to be non scratched

Have you ever actually tried to scratch Cornings glass? I've had every iPhone since the day the first one came out and never used any of them in a case or with a screen protector and not one of them has ever had a scratched screen no matter how roughly I treat it - it really wont scratch.

The ironic thing is that a screen protector going around the sides of the screen and around the touch Id looks like a hair line crack. And thats if someone can apply it properly - at least 60% of them are applied by morons so they're cheap, wonky, have hair bubbles or opaque screen...still, wouldn't want the risk a non existent scratch ruining the view would you

 

[MacCubed]

Have you ever actually tried to scratch Cornings glass? I've had every iPhone since the day the first one came out and never used any of them in a case or with a screen protector and not one of them has ever had a scratched screen no matter how roughly I treat it - it really wont scratch.

The ironic thing is that a screen protector going around the sides of the screen and around the touch Id looks like a hair line crack. And thats if someone can apply it properly - at least 60% of them are applied by morons so they're cheap, wonky, have hair bubbles or opaque screen...still, wouldn't want the risk a non existent scratch ruining the view would you

The lady that put mine on covered part of my home button, and there was what looked that lint under it. I got sick of it and pulled it off

 

[oldmacs]

Have you ever actually tried to scratch Cornings glass? I've had every iPhone since the day the first one came out and never used any of them in a case or with a screen protector and not one of them has ever had a scratched screen no matter how roughly I treat it - it really wont scratch.

The ironic thing is that a screen protector going around the sides of the screen and around the touch Id looks like a hair line crack. And thats if someone can apply it properly - at least 60% of them are applied by morons so they're cheap, wonky, have hair bubbles or opaque screen...still, wouldn't want the risk a non existent scratch ruining the view would you

I take one look at my Mother's scratched iPad Air and some of my client's scratched and chipped iPad/iPhone screens and shudder. It drives me crazy.

I like the screen protector I've had installed on my iPhone 5 for ages, and the one i put on my iPad 2 in 2012. I am good at installing them and if I scratch the protector, I can just replace it. I also enjoy the antiglare properties of the protector. Not to mention the fingerprints that accumulate on a bar screen that don't on my screen protector.

 

[shinkansenwarrior]

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B0110689GO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I use pro guard crystal glass with silicon edge on my 6S...fitted on perfectly, totally in line with home button and no issue with fingerprints or functionality. Just added bit of weight to the phone but nothing u can't handle.

 

[Mac 128]

A customer doesn't have to manually calculate their bill.

When I got my latest iPhone after these changes have been made... the salesman had a worksheet where they tallied up all the various parts of your bill:

Here's how much the basic line costs per month (voice and texts)
Pick your data plan and here's how much it costs per month
Pick your phone and here's how much it costs per month
Insurance? Here's how much it costs per month
etc...

Then they add it up and that's how much you pay each month. It's not hard to comprehend.

The salesmen spells it out pretty well. No customer has to figure anything out on their own. They had a similar worksheet the old way too.

You're gonna spend some time in the carrier store with the salesman explaining things regardless... and you don't sign the paperwork until you understand everything.

I agree that it's different... but I wouldn't call it hard. And with all carriers dumping contracts/subsidies and switching to payment plans... you're gonna have to learn it sometime.

Side note: I would imagine most people used to get the latest iPhone in the 16GB capacity because it was the cheapest option up front. You needed $200 before you could even walk out the door.

But if you wanted the top-end iPhone the old way... you needed $500 immediately!

Now... you don't need to pay anything up front. The cheapest current iPhone is $27 a month and the most expensive iPhone is $40 a month... versus $200 to $500 up front.

I would definitely call not having to pay $500 up front "easier"

It was over when you said "the salesman had a worksheet".

The old way went like this: customer sat at home and saw a commercial listing the iPhone for $199. That's what they think it costs. They already know they pay $70/month. They go into the store, put $199 on their credit card, and never think about it again. No salesmen, no worksheets.

I've got a friend who used to buy it an even easier way -- walk into the store and ask for the "free" iPhone. Now the customer is going to have to get an education, starting with pulling out a worksheet. The confused customer who only sees monthly payments is going to ask why cant they buy their phone they way they used to, and the sales guy is going to say you can, for $650. And the old customer is going to ask what happened to $199, $99, & "free". And then more worksheets.

But look we're getting off track. I'm not debating whether this is better for the consumer or not, or that it's hard to comprehend ... just that for many, they will now understand what the true price of the phone is, whereas before they likely didn't. And it's going to influence their buying decision where it didn't have as much impact before. The point was, Apple may have to rethink their price structure, and lower their low end to make it more affordable to the new entry customers, as well as all those in between. The fact is some people don't want to make monthly payments on things, even if in the end it all works out to be the same as it was under the old contracts. And some people, once they understand the true cost of the phone, even with monthly payments easing the bite, may decide not to spend as much as they were previously when they thought the cost of the phone was $199 and the monthly fee was was strictly covering service.

So again, not disagreeing with you, but the point has more to do with Apple changing their pricing structure than whether the shift to full disclosure presents less or more of a burden on the customer.

 

[Michael Scrip]

So again, not disagreeing with you, but the point has more to do with Apple changing their pricing structure than whether the shift to full disclosure presents less or more of a burden on the customer.

It was over when you said "the salesman had a worksheet".

The old way went like this: customer sat at home and saw a commercial listing the iPhone for $199. That's what they think it costs. They already know they pay $70/month. They go into the store, put $199 on their credit card, and never think about it again. No salesmen, no worksheets.

I've got a friend who used to buy it an even easier way -- walk into the store and ask for the "free" iPhone. Now the customer is going to have to get an education, starting with pulling out a worksheet. The confused customer who only sees monthly payments is going to ask why cant they buy their phone they way they used to, and the sales guy is going to say you can, for $650. And the old customer is going to ask what happened to $199, $99, & "free". And then more worksheets.

But look we're getting off track. I'm not debating whether this is better for the consumer or not, or that it's hard to comprehend ... just that for many, they will now understand what the true price of the phone is, whereas before they likely didn't. And it's going to influence their buying decision where it didn't have as much impact before. The point was, Apple may have to rethink their price structure, and lower their low end to make it more affordable to the new entry customers, as well as all those in between. The fact is some people don't want to make monthly payments on things, even if in the end it all works out to be the same as it was under the old contracts. And some people, once they understand the true cost of the phone, even with monthly payments easing the bite, may decide not to spend as much as they were previously when they thought the cost of the phone was $199 and the monthly fee was was strictly covering service.

Apple didn't change their pricing structure... the CARRIERS have changed the way they sell phones to their customers.

It's not just iPhones that dropped the $199 down-payment and some other "subsidized" amount over the 24 months... ALL phones are being sold like that today. Samsungs, LG, Motorola, etc. Do you want a Droid Turbo 2? That will be $26 a month. That's the carriers' doing.

And I still think you're underestimating what it takes to walk out of a store with a new phone. You always had various plans to choose from. There used to be multiple options for minute plans and text plans... but luckily those are gone since all carriers now give everyone unlimited minutes and texts.

But you still have various options for the amount of data you want for you, or possibly your whole family on a shared data plan... and multiple options for insurance plans... etc.

The truth is... it has always been somewhat of a hassle signing up for cell phone service. But people did it.

And it's not any "harder" now. You're still presented with a dizzying array of choices. You're gonna be talking to a salesman for a while.

BTW... earlier I said easier to understand... not easier as in the process of buying a new phone. The process is still a chore.

But at least now you understand exactly what you're paying for. It was a disservice letting people think they were buying a phone for $199.

And now you don't have to pay $199 to $499 up front anymore! That's a win right there

 

[aces99]

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...eplace-iphone-5s-iphone-6-and-6-plus.1952615/

Hopefully this rumour is wrong because coming out with a new phone in 2016 with only 1GB of ram is a joke, weather it is a budget phone or not. Talk about handicapping it right out if the gate. I am not really sure if I buy this article all that much. I like that it has the A9 chip. Now if the rumour is wrong and it will actually have 2 GB of ram it will rock. Fingers crossed.

 

[blcfla]

If it has the specs of a 6S but smaller, I might be jumping down to the new 4" model. Gonna have to wait and see.

If it has 1GB RAM, just like others have said, no thanks I'll stay put.

 

[shandyman]

To me the biggest hint that this is fake is that everything seems to be scaled down proportionally on the 5se picture (except the home button). That means that all the side buttons look smaller on the 5se vs. the 6 and 6 plus.

The side buttons are not smaller on the 4.7" iPhone 6 vs. the 5.5" iPhone 6(S) plus, and there would be no reason for it. The size of the buttons is not determined by the size of the device, but rather by the size of the average human finger, so they are comfortable to press.

And the home button, which is the only thing that needed Photoshop for this optical illusion (to keep it the same size as other iPhones), looks weird and doesn't seem to be perfectly aligned vertically.

That home button proves it's photoshopped. It's at the wrong angle. Plus if you look along the edge, it's slightly wrong looking.

 

[oldmacs]

Hopefully this rumour is wrong because coming out with a new phone in 2016 with only 1GB of ram is a joke, weather it is a budget phone or not. Talk about handicapping it right out if the gate. I am not really sure if I buy this article all that much. I like that it has the A9 chip. Now if the rumour is wrong and it will actually have 2 GB of ram it will rock. Fingers crossed.

The whole 1GB of ram thing is not related to that rumour - the article says "Other rumoured specs are" when it talks about 1GB, that is not from the 9to5 article that talks about the A9.

 

[dampfnudel]

Yes of course they will sell lots of them, that's a given. But they will sell ALOT more if it has up to date specs and features. Hell Apple could take the iPhone 5S and put curved edges on it, call it the iPhone 6 mini and call it a day and they will sells millions. The point of my original post is I have seen lots of people were people said that they wanted a 4" iPhone with the latest specs and features. Nothing more nothing less and I would like you to point were that statement is incorrect. because I can point you to countless posts by people asking for it.

Theoretically, if Apple released three iPhone 7 models: 7 mini, 7, 7 Plus in September, would you be willing to pay more for the increased costs of manufacturing smaller versions of the latest components for your mini ($100 more)? Would others accept this? Maybe a revised A9 or A10 that comes out a year after the initial release will fit and more to the point be economically feasible to Apple. I think the larger enclosure of the current 6/6s body styles did more than provide Apple an opportunity to increase the screen size to better match competitors, it also allowed more heat dissipation, which could become a more limiting factor for smartphone development in the future until the next breakthrough in thermal management for smartphones.