iPhone 6+ Lag

[BlueGoldAce]

Safe bet, sure... But I'm highly disapointed I even have to make this decision. Why couldn't they make it easy?!



Yes, all of the above. I'm also CONSTANTLY on my device. I read a LOT of news on the thing. You know what I DON'T do a lot of, even though I wish I did more, was GAME. That's where my concern comes in. It's clear the FPS are much much lower on the PLUS, can software and METAL API fix this? It's really sad that all we can do is speculate.



Yes, the shine will eventually fade... and in two years (when this contract renewal is up) I could simply upgrade to the 7 (or whatever they call it...) In the end, that may be the determining factor. Can (will) this phone become "obsolete " in two years, or will my lack of intense gaming not even make me see the difference in this phone?

No doubt, I'll be getting this new iteration of iPhone... but I'm terribly stuck over which model is the right model. If I could be guaranteed this is a SOFTWARE issue rather than a HARDWARE issue, I'd be SOLD on the PLUS. NO questions asked.



----------

Can someone explain to me why THIS directly from GFXBENCH.COM is completely different than what I'm seeing on ANANDTECH HERE?



From GFXBENCH.COM it seems as if they 6 Plus can handle all of this JUST FINE and beats the 6 in all tests... WHAT GIVES?!

No harm in being confused.

The iPhone 6 plus is clocked slightly higher so it scores higher in the geek bench. It's scores lower on 3d mark because it has to push more pixels through the screen.

Both phone will support graphic intensive games for 2-3 years.

 

[DiggityBiggity]

Both phone will support graphic intensive games for 2-3 years.

This in by NO WAY is me being flippant, sarcastic or rude but do you have a "source" that can confirm that or maybe some background as to how you can "guarantee" that.

I know that sounds so horribly obnoxious since you can't hear tone through a forum, but I promise it comes from a sincere place of pure ignorance to how these things are measured exactly.

If both phones will support graphic intensive games for the next two to three years with little to no difference, that helps my decision greatly.

Thank you for your help.

 

[DiggityBiggity]

Both phone will support graphic intensive games for 2-3 years.

I may have found my own answer HERE, tell me if this is what you were referring to.

"One feature GFXBench is currently unable to benchmark is how much faster games can perform when using Apple's new Metal API, announced this summer at WWDC. Using Metal, developers can bypass OpenGL ES entirely, achieving massive increases in graphics performance on the same hardware."

 

[BlueGoldAce]

I may have found my own answer HERE, tell me if this is what you were referring to.



"One feature GFXBench is currently unable to benchmark is how much faster games can perform when using Apple's new Metal API, announced this summer at WWDC. Using Metal, developers can bypass OpenGL ES entirely, achieving massive increases in graphics performance on the same hardware."

I say that based on apples history and how powerful the gpu is in both of these phones. For example, xcom and bioshock both run easily on the iPad four. Both also run on my brothers iPad 3 (which everyone hates here).

Think of it like this... Android phones support games for 2-3 years now, with less powerful gpu and higher resolutions. I mean... The best source I can give you is andantech. In their review they state that the iPhone 6plus handles the bump in resolution with little to no trade off. They aren't concerned with its ability to run games for the next few years... They are only concerned with ram.

Both phones will last you at least two years, and are likely to make in through a third.

If you want a guarantee... I can't give you one with any single phone on the market. Both iPhone are your best bet.

People are pretty anal here about the lag... Which is few and far between. This lag will be fixed after further optimization. Maybe it's because I have owned so many androids... But both the six and he six plus are incredibly smooth for me.

Yes, I was considering metal. Metal will only make these phones even better performers. With that in mind, you should be safe with either phone.

 

[Zinthar]

"strictly necessary" and "adequate replacement" are terms you seem to be using interchangeably. I don't know if you really think they're the same, or if it's a feeble attempt to try to prove your point. The end result is the same, ignorance on your part, if they were as interchangeable as you're trying to imply they are, Apple would save a few more cents and reduce the memory still. We both know they're not the same, except one of us is being stupid about it. Not to mention if NAND sees as many read/write cycles as RAM does it would be virtually useless in a very short period of time. Seriously, the only thing you've proven here is that NAND is an adequate storage media, not an adequate replacement to RAM.

Something may be "not strictly necessary" if there's an "adequate replacement". They're complementary terms. You also shouldn't confuse "adequate" with "ideal", because I was most certainly NOT arguing that 1GB is ideal. I'm a lawyer and don't frame sentences arbitrarily. I'm sorry you didn't understand, but you should really blame your english teachers/professors (or their student).

Modern TLC NAND has been proven to be able to write 600TB of data before any degradation occurs, with MLC not far behind. OS X and Windows both use SSD's for their virtual memory without issue. In fact, it's far superior for the task than HDD's ever were with their poor random read performance. Virtual memory is not a replacement for RAM, and I never stated such. It's a supplement to RAM, and is well-suited to the role when it's storing processes that are inactive but which the user may want to recall quickly.

The entire reason for my original post on this subject was because I was wondering what in the world Apple was thinking by going with 1GB of RAM and how they thought they could justify the minimal marginal cost savings (and battery life savings) considering the deleterious impact it could have on user experience and the iPhone brand. The fact that iOS can suspend an inactive program, remove it from RAM, and then resume without losing your place doesn't make for a serious drawback when a 100 MB app is being recalled by 250 MB/sec NAND. For better or worse, the average user will never notice.

 

[2IS]

600TB of writes for a storage media vs RAM is apples and oranges though. For one it's adequate, for the other not so much. You won't see me arguing about write retention issues for a NAND device used for storage since it's a non issue for end users, but when you start talking about it being an adequate replacement for RAM, it just... Isn't, and on multiple metrics. Bandwidth is one, latency is another, stamina is a 3rd.

 

[DiggityBiggity]

So after watching THIS video a bit closer (posted earlier) I realized at the end the results were clearly listed from both phones. From what I can see, these are the results of 3DMARK app.

iPhone 6:
59.5 FPS from graphics test 1
44.8 from graphics test 2
24.3 from the physics test

iPhone 6+:
59.8 FPS from graphics test 1
48.3 from graphics test 2
27.5 from the physics test

Results from my personal iPad AIR:
60 FPS from graphics test 1
45.6 from graphics test 2
25.7 from the physics test

What can be learned from these tests? Clearly this is only a "bench mark" test and not a "real world" application of the CPU or GPU, but it seems like the 6 and 6+ are really neck and neck here. Am I missing something? (I work on cars, not circuit boards)

After running Zen Garden on my iPad AIR, I realize even that (which has scored higher in most scores above) stutters slightly here and there. I think (opinion) we've come to expect so much from companies such as Apple, Samsung, etc that we really are looking for PERFECTION in every way... I'm honestly not sure that's even possible right at release. As hardware ramps up, so do developers in their hopes of pushing the limits.

When the XBOX 360 (or any console system) released, if people would have known what the "end result" of the console could produce they would be saying that the system was "gimped". It seems as if developers need to "catch up" and learn how to use the newest software (such as METAL) to optimize the user experience on all new devices. (Again, if I'm speaking out of my ass, please don't hesitate to correct me)

With that being said, the iPad AIR only has 264PPI and runs at 2048-by-1536 with only the A7 and M7. If this device can push the above results, I have little to no doubt that with updated software implementation (again, Metal) the PLUS will have the longevity I'm looking for. Since the 3DMARK is doing everything in its power to STRESS the device, and while watching it on my AIR was still impressive (to me) I am starting to become more confident that the PLUS will last well through two years and good enough for my third.

I hope the above rant wasn't too all over the place... Let me know where I'm totally wrong, or in the right direction.

Thanks everyone!

 

[BlueGoldAce]

So after watching THIS video a bit closer (posted earlier) I realized at the end the results were clearly listed from both phones. From what I can see, these are the results of 3DMARK app.



iPhone 6:

59.5 FPS from graphics test 1

44.8 from graphics test 2

24.3 from the physics test



iPhone 6+:

59.8 FPS from graphics test 1

48.3 from graphics test 2

27.5 from the physics test



Results from my personal iPad AIR:

60 FPS from graphics test 1

45.6 from graphics test 2

25.7 from the physics test



What can be learned from these tests? Clearly this is only a "bench mark" test and not a "real world" application of the CPU or GPU, but it seems like the 6 and 6+ are really neck and neck here. Am I missing something? (I work on cars, not circuit boards)



After running Zen Garden on my iPad AIR, I realize even that (which has scored higher in most scores above) stutters slightly here and there. I think (opinion) we've come to expect so much from companies such as Apple, Samsung, etc that we really are looking for PERFECTION in every way... I'm honestly not sure that's even possible right at release. As hardware ramps up, so do developers in their hopes of pushing the limits.



When the XBOX 360 (or any console system) released, if people would have known what the "end result" of the console could produce they would be saying that the system was "gimped". It seems as if developers need to "catch up" and learn how to use the newest software (such as METAL) to optimize the user experience on all new devices. (Again, if I'm speaking out of my ass, please don't hesitate to correct me)



With that being said, the iPad AIR only has 264PPI and runs at 2048-by-1536 with only the A7 and M7. If this device can push the above results, I have little to no doubt that with updated software implementation (again, Metal) the PLUS will have the longevity I'm looking for. Since the 3DMARK is doing everything in its power to STRESS the device, and while watching it on my AIR was still impressive (to me) I am starting to become more confident that the PLUS will last well through two years and good enough for my third.



I hope the above rant wasn't too all over the place... Let me know where I'm totally wrong, or in the right direction.



Thanks everyone!

I agree with you.

 

[Apple blogger]

90% lag is software only.. Even if it is a new phone software bugs can lag and have glitches .. I'll advice you to restore via iTunes, I know it's pretty frustrating to have a new expansive mobile and then it's lags...

 

[DiggityBiggity]

I agree with you.

If this were Facebook, I would 'like' this post.

Check THIS out, more bench mark results showing just how powerful the PLUS is.

 

[farmkittie]

It doesn't run that great on mine. It looks great, but the performance is pretty bad.

Runs great on my 6+

 

[madKIR]

If this were Facebook, I would 'like' this post.

Check THIS out, more bench mark results showing just how powerful the PLUS is.

Why don't look at the resolution these test run at?!
With its native resolution the Plus is even behind the 5S!

Check Anandtech for that.

 

[DiggityBiggity]

Why don't look at the resolution these test run at?!
With its native resolution the Plus is even behind the 5S!

Check Anandtech for that.

I'm not incredibly technical, can you please break down what "native resolution" has to do with these tests, why the iPhone 6 IS beaten by the 5S and why a future software update can't fix this problem?

Thank you!!!

 

[BlueGoldAce]

I'm not incredibly technical, can you please break down what "native resolution" has to do with these tests, why the iPhone 6 IS beaten by the 5S and why a future software update can't fix this problem?



Thank you!!!

Native resolution displays how the gpu copes with the resolution of the display.

A software update won't fix this. You most likely won't notice it either.

Go ahead, check andantech. They don't state it as a major Concern. It still outpaces the majority of phones on the market.

----------

Native resolution displays how the gpu copes with the resolution of the display.

A software update won't fix this. You most likely won't notice it either.

Go ahead, check andantech. They don't state it as a major Concern. It still outpaces the majority of phones on the market.

Honestly... All the spec comparison and obsessing with lag makes me think I am on an android forum.

 

[DiggityBiggity]

Native resolution displays how the gpu copes with the resolution of the display.

A software update won't fix this. You most likely won't notice it either.

Go ahead, check andantech. They don't state it as a major Concern. It still outpaces the majority of phones on the market.

----------





Honestly... All the spec comparison and obsessing with lag makes me think I am on an android forum.

Can you link me to that specific Anandtech article and maybe do a quick copy/paste of the site saying it's of no concern?

Also, if only one phone was released, these questions wouldn't even exist. I agree.

 

[Dmunjal]

Native resolution displays how the gpu copes with the resolution of the display.

A software update won't fix this. You most likely won't notice it either.

Go ahead, check andantech. They don't state it as a major Concern. It still outpaces the majority of phones on the market.

----------





Honestly... All the spec comparison and obsessing with lag makes me think I am on an android forum.

Hilarious! The three main topics on MacRumors lately are:

1. Build quality
2. Lag
3. Size of the phones

This IS an android forum now!

 

[DiggityBiggity]

Here is something interesting (strange) that I just found. Look at the discrepancies in the below images.

This image is from appleinsider.com showing the "latest" OpenGL ES 3.0 rendering fps benchmarks using the GFXBench App. What's not being mentioned, if were these results from 8.0 or 8.0.2.

You'll notice in these results the PLUS looks horrendous in onscreen testing compared to the 5S.

The reason I question this, is because I'm finding different numbers altogether when looking for comparisons on my 4S. Download GFXBench for yourself ESPECIALLY if you have a PLUS and run some tests. Here is what I'm seeing.

The PLUS is showing:
Manhattan: 1941 vs. 1177
1080p Manhattan Offscreen: 1158 vs. 1189
T-Rex: 2933 vs. 2326
1080p T-Rex Offscreen: 2505 vs. 2391

((The second number is from AppleInsiders image, the first number is from the app itself))

Can anyone explain why these discrepancies exist? Also, what's the possibility anyone has GFXBench on their PLUS and their 6 to do some comparisons of their own?

Again, I know Benchmark tests are just that, benchmarks. But I'm trying to put together as complete a picture (no pun intended) as possible regarding the PLUS and it's potential limitations. Apple has been known to put out duds here and there, but I would be hard pressed to believe their very first dive into the "phablet" would be a flop when so much is riding on it.

Do these bench tests have no real basis because they're rendering at 1080, or is that why they specify "on screen" and "off screen" results. If this were the case, wouldn't developers (knowingly) develop games specifically for the PLUS to optimize performance, or does this become too much work on their end?

I'm sorry if these questions have been answered already or in different ways and I'm not just understanding them. This is a very complicated thing as far as I can tell and the above discrepancies in the numbers confused me even more.

This from the article

"The downside is that iPhone 6 Plus has to render more pixels than it actually has, and it already has nearly three times as many as last year's iPhone 5s. With so many more pixels to push, the new phone can't always beat the "frames per second" performance of iPhone 5s at its native resolution."

You'll notice however, that these numbers differ from what I'm seeing on my GFXBench App. If we used my numbers, the results would look closer to this.

iPhone 6 Plus difference vs. 5S from the NEW numbers I'm finding from the APP itself

Manhattan Onscreen is a 28% INCREASE, not 22% decrease
Offscreen is a 46% increase, not a 51% increase
T-Rex Onscreen is a 28% increase, not a 2% increase
Offscreen is a 55% increase, not a 49% increase

iPhone 6 differences

Manhattan Onscreen is a 22% INCREASE, not 9% decrease
Offscreen is a 39% increase, not a 43% increase
T-Rex Onscreen is a 25% increase, not a 22% increase
Offscreen is a 48% increase, not a 49% increase

You'll notice the PLUS still fairs better than the 6 in these tests and you'll also note that the PLUS doesn't have that 22% decrease as was stated previously.

So, WHAT CHANGED?! How and why were these original numbers so skewed. This makes it look CLEAR that we're looking at a software issue not yet fully utilizing the new hardware that's causing these issues.

Thoughts?!

Thanks guys! Love this board.

 

[BlueGoldAce]

Here is something interesting (strange) that I just found. Look at the discrepancies in the below images.

This image is from appleinsider.com showing the "latest" OpenGL ES 3.0 rendering fps benchmarks using the GFXBench App. What's not being mentioned, if were these results from 8.0 or 8.0.2.

Image
You'll notice in these results the PLUS looks horrendous in onscreen testing compared to the 5S.

The reason I question this, is because I'm finding different numbers altogether when looking for comparisons on my 4S. Download GFXBench for yourself ESPECIALLY if you have a PLUS and run some tests. Here is what I'm seeing.

The PLUS is showing:
Manhattan: 1941 vs. 1177
1080p Manhattan Offscreen: 1158 vs. 1189
T-Rex: 2933 vs. 2326
1080p T-Rex Offscreen: 2505 vs. 2391

((The second number is from AppleInsiders image, the first number is from the app itself))

Can anyone explain why these discrepancies exist? Also, what's the possibility anyone has GFXBench on their PLUS and their 6 to do some comparisons of their own?

Again, I know Benchmark tests are just that, benchmarks. But I'm trying to put together as complete a picture (no pun intended) as possible regarding the PLUS and it's potential limitations. Apple has been known to put out duds here and there, but I would be hard pressed to believe their very first dive into the "phablet" would be a flop when so much is riding on it.

Do these bench tests have no real basis because they're rendering at 1080, or is that why they specify "on screen" and "off screen" results. If this were the case, wouldn't developers (knowingly) develop games specifically for the PLUS to optimize performance, or does this become too much work on their end?

I'm sorry if these questions have been answered already or in different ways and I'm not just understanding them. This is a very complicated thing as far as I can tell and the above discrepancies in the numbers confused me even more.

This from the article

"The downside is that iPhone 6 Plus has to render more pixels than it actually has, and it already has nearly three times as many as last year's iPhone 5s. With so many more pixels to push, the new phone can't always beat the "frames per second" performance of iPhone 5s at its native resolution."

Image

You'll notice however, that these numbers differ from what I'm seeing on my GFXBench App. If we used my numbers, the results would look closer to this.

iPhone 6 Plus difference vs. 5S from the NEW numbers I'm finding from the APP itself

Manhattan Onscreen is a 28% INCREASE, not 22% decrease
Offscreen is a 46% increase, not a 51% increase
T-Rex Onscreen is a 28% increase, not a 2% increase
Offscreen is a 55% increase, not a 49% increase

iPhone 6 differences

Manhattan Onscreen is a 22% INCREASE, not 9% decrease
Offscreen is a 39% increase, not a 43% increase
T-Rex Onscreen is a 25% increase, not a 22% increase
Offscreen is a 48% increase, not a 49% increase

You'll notice the PLUS still fairs better than the 6 in these tests and you'll also note that the PLUS doesn't have that 22% decrease as was stated previously.

So, WHAT CHANGED?! How and why were these original numbers so skewed. This makes it look CLEAR that we're looking at a software issue not yet fully utilizing the new hardware that's causing these issues.

Thoughts?!

Thanks guys! Love this board.

What changed? Software update maybe?

The phablet is not a flop. You can find one anywhere, it's is such demand it takes a month to ship, people love it, and it's getting great reviews. How is that a flop?

It should come down to screen size alone. Other differences are minor.

No offense, but your obsessing too much bud. Just wait for you plus. If you don't like it return it for a six. Pretty simple.

 

[DiggityBiggity]

What changed? Software update maybe?

The phablet is not a flop. You can find one anywhere, it's is such demand it takes a month to ship, people love it, and it's getting great reviews. How is that a flop?

It should come down to screen size alone. Other differences are minor.

No offense, but your obsessing too much bud. Just wait for you plus. If you don't like it return it for a six. Pretty simple.

I'm not saying it is a flop, I actually have one on order. I'm just simply saying with everything Apple has on the line, they wouldn't allow this to flop.

And yes, I'm obsessing... it's what I do

I'm simply trying to understand WHY these numbers changed so much... from a -22% to a 28% is a LARGE difference... Just trying to get a technical understanding.

 

[cmanbrazil]

I'm not saying it is a flop, I actually have one on order. I'm just simply saying with everything Apple has on the line, they wouldn't allow this to flop.

And yes, I'm obsessing... it's what I do

I'm simply trying to understand WHY these numbers changed so much... from a -22% to a 28% is a LARGE difference... Just trying to get a technical understanding.

You can keep this thread going as long as people are willing to respond. For me, it will come down to real world experience and I am making an educated guess that apple will improve the experience.

As for the comment that this sounds like an android forum, I agree. However, it's because it's displaying an issue normally attributed to android phones, and since apple doesn't like to admit or acknowledge fault in their great products it leads people who obsess about these issues to speculate as to why their phones are subpar in some areas and is something that Apple will or an fix.

 

[DiggityBiggity]

You can keep this thread going as long as people are willing to respond. For me, it will come down to real world experience and I am making an educated guess that apple will improve the experience.

I'm starting to agree with you.

 

[BlueGoldAce]

Plus is great phone bud. Stop fretting.

 

[madKIR]

Here is something interesting (strange) that I just found. Look at the discrepancies in the below images.

This image is from appleinsider.com showing the "latest" OpenGL ES 3.0 rendering fps benchmarks using the GFXBench App. What's not being mentioned, if were these results from 8.0 or 8.0.2.

Image
You'll notice in these results the PLUS looks horrendous in onscreen testing compared to the 5S.

The reason I question this, is because I'm finding different numbers altogether when looking for comparisons on my 4S. Download GFXBench for yourself ESPECIALLY if you have a PLUS and run some tests. Here is what I'm seeing.

The PLUS is showing:
Manhattan: 1941 vs. 1177
1080p Manhattan Offscreen: 1158 vs. 1189
T-Rex: 2933 vs. 2326
1080p T-Rex Offscreen: 2505 vs. 2391

((The second number is from AppleInsiders image, the first number is from the app itself))

Can anyone explain why these discrepancies exist? Also, what's the possibility anyone has GFXBench on their PLUS and their 6 to do some comparisons of their own?

Again, I know Benchmark tests are just that, benchmarks. But I'm trying to put together as complete a picture (no pun intended) as possible regarding the PLUS and it's potential limitations. Apple has been known to put out duds here and there, but I would be hard pressed to believe their very first dive into the "phablet" would be a flop when so much is riding on it.

Do these bench tests have no real basis because they're rendering at 1080, or is that why they specify "on screen" and "off screen" results. If this were the case, wouldn't developers (knowingly) develop games specifically for the PLUS to optimize performance, or does this become too much work on their end?

I'm sorry if these questions have been answered already or in different ways and I'm not just understanding them. This is a very complicated thing as far as I can tell and the above discrepancies in the numbers confused me even more.

This from the article

"The downside is that iPhone 6 Plus has to render more pixels than it actually has, and it already has nearly three times as many as last year's iPhone 5s. With so many more pixels to push, the new phone can't always beat the "frames per second" performance of iPhone 5s at its native resolution."

Image

You'll notice however, that these numbers differ from what I'm seeing on my GFXBench App. If we used my numbers, the results would look closer to this.

iPhone 6 Plus difference vs. 5S from the NEW numbers I'm finding from the APP itself

Manhattan Onscreen is a 28% INCREASE, not 22% decrease
Offscreen is a 46% increase, not a 51% increase
T-Rex Onscreen is a 28% increase, not a 2% increase
Offscreen is a 55% increase, not a 49% increase

iPhone 6 differences

Manhattan Onscreen is a 22% INCREASE, not 9% decrease
Offscreen is a 39% increase, not a 43% increase
T-Rex Onscreen is a 25% increase, not a 22% increase
Offscreen is a 48% increase, not a 49% increase

You'll notice the PLUS still fairs better than the 6 in these tests and you'll also note that the PLUS doesn't have that 22% decrease as was stated previously.

So, WHAT CHANGED?! How and why were these original numbers so skewed. This makes it look CLEAR that we're looking at a software issue not yet fully utilizing the new hardware that's causing these issues.

Thoughts?!

Thanks guys! Love this board.

If you're running this app as a user not a developer, you see the different result due to the lower resolution available to test it at. Only the developer version of the app has the option to run it at native resolution.
At its native resolution the Plus is way behind the 5S due to the number of pixels it has to push.

 

[DiggityBiggity]

If you're running this app as a user not a developer, you see the different result due to the lower resolution available to test it at. Only the developer version of the app has the option to run it at native resolution.
At its native resolution the Plus is way behind the 5S due to the number of pixels it has to push.

And that's EXACTLY what I was looking for, a technical answer that makes sense.

So you're saying if a game is running at NATIVE resolution, it will POTENTIALLY stutter because the GPU is clearly working twice as hard as the 6 due to pixel count and density. HOWEVER, if a game is running the game at a lower resolution, the PLUS will beat both the 5S and the 6 in performance.

Very very interesting and GOOD TO KNOW!!!

 

[FireCapt]

And that's EXACTLY what I was looking for, a technical answer that makes sense.

So you're saying if a game is running at NATIVE resolution, it will POTENTIALLY stutter because the GPU is clearly working twice as hard as the 6 due to pixel count and density. HOWEVER, if a game is running the game at a lower resolution, the PLUS will beat both the 5S and the 6 in performance.

Very very interesting and GOOD TO KNOW!!!

guys, for a while I would check for updates on you apps Daily. I have had multiple updates on the same apps over the last 3 weeks.