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16GB is not tight. 16GB is UNUSABLE. If people can get by with 16GB, they likely are not using their smartphone as a smartphone.
My issue is that Apple charges the same price for NAND that is dropping in price like crazy. Why not charge the same and put in equal value of NAND (lets say 32GB). Its MONEY. Strictly ways to manipulate people to pay more.

What exactly is "not using their smartphone as a smartphone "?

I use my 16GB iPhone 5 for the following:

Basic voice & SMS
Weather
GPS navigation
Facebook app
Twitter
Yelp
Email
Occasional web browsing
Music
YouTube
Photos
e-book reading
Light document editing with Google docs
Angry Birds

I don't store a lot of music or video content on my device, or take videos on a regular basis. I have about 25 apps installed and use 16-20 of all apps (the iOS ones plus the ones from App Store) on a regular basis. With only a few exceptions, my iPhone could actually replace my Windows notebook for most tasks.

Am I not using my smartphone as a smartphone?
 
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I wish 128GB was the standard base model capacity, but it's not practical. For a 16GB device as complex and wonderful as the iPhone 6, it's well worth the $199 asking price. $299 for the gargantuan 6 Plus is also quite fair for it's size and screen quality.

• Kids whose parents want to get them a standard cheaper model to be mainly used for calls. My daughter is just such a person.


207 songs • 7 movies (Avatar, The Hobbit 1, The Hobbit 2, The Hobbit 3, Harry Potter 1, Harry Potter 2, Harry Potter 3) • 111 photos • about 20 apps and she still has over a 1GB left.

With the smaller iOS footprint, the 16GB model will be even more viable for the kids and the old folks. If you're neither of those markets, $100 is quite worth it for an additional 48GB. If Apple was charging $100 and we only got a bump up to 32GB, I think we would have more grounds for complaints. In the long run, the $100 is worth and not a gouge at all.

Wow,so per your example, if you bought THE LOWEST standard definition movies from Itunes that you listed,Avatar, The Hobbit 1, The Hobbit 2, The Hobbit 3, Harry Potter 1, Harry Potter 2, Harry Potter 3.
You would use 17.47gb of storage. Since a Iphone 16gb only has 12gb of usable storage you could not get all the movies you listed to fit,let alone all 7 of those movies PLUS 207 songs and 111 photos. you could fit 5 of the movies......barely and have zero apps,zero photos and zero music.
Doesn't sound very realistic.
 
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As a for-profit company, wouldn't Apple simply stop making the 16GB model if it didn't sell? If it costs you money to make something that isn't selling, you generally stop making it. So, following this logic, if people stop buying the 16GB model, we won't have a 16GB model to worry about any more. Likewise though, if it continues to sell well, continue to expect Apple to offer it.

If the argument is that unsuspecting people buy the low-end model and then realize it doesn't meet their needs and they're upset, then logic would dictate that the bad press from that would impact sales and Apple would be driving people to the competition. I can't imagine that Apple would be open to that either.

As far as cost, you're always going to pay a premium for Apple products. Apple products could be cheaper if Apple changed their business model, including changing their business practices where they control the software, hardware, and much of the ecosystem that supports the device (e.g. iTunes). Of course, it is those business practices that make Apple products what they are - otherwise you're looking at a Google/Android or Microsoft/Windows phone solution - not to say that those are inferior, but only that those are built on a model where software (OS) development and hardware development are divided across multiple companies.

Of course, I've purchased 32GB or 64GB models for the last few years anyway. There is an initial higher cost, but also higher trade in value.

Apple doesn't want you to buy the 16GB. They've made it as unappealing as possible so you'll spring for the $100 to get the 64GB. That's how you increase ASP.
 
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If by "all it is," you mean that Steve Job's application of that philosophy transformed Apple into the world's mightiest company, then yes, you're right.

Are you serious?

Steve Jobs transformed the company into one of the one the world's mightiest by knowing exactly how much he can charge and charging it. He's no different than Cook in that aspect aside from image.
 
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Of course people that are set on buying the 128gb (or 64gb for that matter) won't complain because you already know that even 16/32gb won't suit your needs. It's the low ball move of squeezing people for another $100 for 64gb vs the extra $1 to $5 just to increase the base storage from 16 to 32gb.

100% agree. This is the same reason Apple is still squeezing people with MacBook Air/Pro's. 128GB is embarrassing for a $1000+ laptop, SSD or not.
 
I hate the fact that the 16GB is sticking around. I can at least say I won't buy another iPhone until the base is 32GB. It's pure ridiculousness. That upgrade to them costs less than $1, but if looking at "cost" of lost revenue, then it's $100. But seriously, this is ridiculous. If you're upgrading to a camera that takes 4K, don't be a dick about only allowing a few minutes of footage before your phone is full.

As for those who don't get the whole pricing thing, this is beyond the normal use of "good, better, best". It's more "crap, more than majority will need, and we put this here just incase someone is crazy enough to buy it".

If this does pan out that 16GB stays, I hope the crowd boo's Phil when he talks about the starting price or storage. Something like "And it's starting at just $599 with the 16GB model.." Crowd:"Booooooo"
 
All this complaining is unlikely to make a difference.

Microsoft didn't decide to unbundle the Kinect from Xbox One because people were complaining on Internet forums. They did it because the Playstation 4 was outselling the Xbox One by a large margin.
Similarly, large screened iPhones did not appear because iPhone users were getting trolled on account of the size of their phones. Apple decided to build them because Samsung was selling lots of Galaxy Notes. Remember those?

Do you want to save money and get exactly 32GB of storage? Buy the 32GB iPhone 5S.

The iPhone was never meant to serve as a storage device, like for example, the iPod Classic.
You can cry greed all you like but it's just product segmentation.
The 16 GB current generation iPhone offers absolutely everything the more expensive models do. It just cannot hold an entire media library of an intensive user.
It can hold the entire media library for many light users. It can also serve as an excellent smartphone for anyone but the most demanding user if the user can be bothered to spend 30 minutes a few times a year to back up and revisit what they need and don't need to have at their fingertips wherever they go.
 
All this complaining is unlikely to make a difference.

Microsoft didn't decide to unbundle the Kinect from Xbox One because people were complaining on Internet forums. They did it because the Playstation 4 was outselling the Xbox One by a large margin.
Similarly, large screened iPhones did not appear because iPhone users were getting trolled on account of the size of their phones. Apple decided to build them because Samsung was selling lots of Galaxy Notes. Remember those?

Do you want to save money and get exactly 32GB of storage? Buy the 32GB iPhone 5S.

The iPhone was never meant to serve as a storage device, like for example, the iPod Classic.
You can cry greed all you like but it's just product segmentation.
The 16 GB current generation iPhone offers absolutely everything the more expensive models do. It just cannot hold an entire media library of an intensive user.
It can hold the entire media library for many light users. It can also serve as an excellent smartphone for anyone but the most demanding user if the user can be bothered to spend 30 minutes a few times a year to back up and revisit what they need and don't need to have at their fingertips wherever they go.


I disagree. It's not really a 16 GB phone after you account for the OS space. It's more like a 12 GB phone. After you install apps, and restore your photos, you're really limited if you're not careful. Some apps are 1-2 GB each. You can fill that up rather quickly. 16 GB is only good for computer memory. Not for storage/mobile device needs. It was ok at first but now, not so much. 32, 64, 128 is what it should be.
 
Apple doesn't want you to buy the 16GB. They've made it as unappealing as possible so you'll spring for the $100 to get the 64GB. That's how you increase ASP.

Sure they have. Meanwhile Apple is reducing the size of iOS and also Apps (through App thinning) which actually gives people with EXISTING 16GB devices even more space than previously and a better experience.
 
I disagree. It's not really a 16 GB phone after you account for the OS space. It's more like a 12 GB phone. After you install apps, and restore your photos, you're really limited if you're not careful. Some apps are 1-2 GB each. You can fill that up rather quickly. 16 GB is only good for computer memory. Not for storage/mobile device needs. It was ok at first but now, not so much. 32, 64, 128 is what it should be.
If you have the 16GB you should not be restoring your photos because, like I said, the whole point of it is to not be your permanent media storage device. You can store some of you best and/or most recent photos, but not all of them.

Almost no apps are 1-2GB. That size is usually reserved for the fanciest of games. You can keep a couple of your favourites and have another couple on rotation as new ones are released and old ones become boring.
 
Sure they have. Meanwhile Apple is reducing the size of iOS and also Apps (through App thinning) which actually gives people with EXISTING 16GB devices even more space than previously and a better experience.

That's only to minimize the complaining. Each step up in storage gets Apple better margins.
 
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the bottom line is that 32GB base storage is *the industry standard* for a premium smartphone.
Can you point me to the IEEE number for this standard (or what ever the governing body is)? I presume you can't be suggesting it's a de facto standard given that the second highest volume vendor worldwide doesn't seem to conform...

I think what you mean is that there are other vendors who don't offer a 16GB device and start their offerings at 32GB and you believe that's what all vendors should do. That's nothing like an industry standard, it's more like grandiose rhetoric.
Nope, you are misunderstanding one chart. You should see the growth of other brands and the quantity of smartphones et all sold by them. If you think apple should stick to 16GB because of this one chart then you only understand supply/demand simplistically and erroneously. Hell, that is the whole reason apple decided to increase the size of the iPhones in the current gen and brought the ipad mini. It's been around 6 years since apple bumped the SSD the last time. In 6 years SSD has gone way down in the price that now they don't have an excuse to charge $100 more for 16GB. If they had an expansion slot then there would be no backlash, but there will be if they stay at 16gb. Just downloading all the apple apps for iOS will take a good chunk out of that 16GB, LMK when you record your 4K 5 sec video, because even w cloud and LTE the 16 size can't handle todays tech that is inside its own machine. BTW you are mixing the words low end device w small SSD, not the same.
I keep looking through your posts looking for information, and all I keep finding is unsupported assertions. If you are going to say it's important to look at something, for example, it would be more convincing that you know what you're talking about if you provide the something to look at and explain why the trends are specifically the result of Apple providing a 16GB option-- preferably with more nuance than "apps take space".

Yes, that profit chart is a snapshot in time because it was simply support for the argument that Apple does not have a disastrously wrong product mix-- if they did, they wouldn't be hoovering up all the profit in the market. It's that simple. Profits indicate how much the market values a product beyond the cost of making and selling it. Maximizing profits is challenging-- you need to make careful tradeoffs.

Doing your work for you, at the bottom, I show 4 years of data to establish a trend that, frankly, doesn't do your point much good.

If you think maximizing unit sales, or "quality" is why Apple should abandon the 16GB device, then you understand business simplistically and erroneously. No matter how high your unit sales, you don't stay in business long shipping a dollar out with each device. The market clearly doesn't value whatever your definition of quality is as much as you do.

Samsung is still in the fight, but there's nothing in this data that suggests they're going to outlast the pack. They're retaining marketshare by drastically slashing profit.

Apple bumped their storage to 128GB in 2014. That's last year, not 6 years ago.

Apple isn't charging $100 more for 16GB, they have 3 price tiers that are $100 different: 16GB, 64GB (48GB more) and 128GB (64GB more).

I see no evidence of a backlash other than a few vocal members of the forums. I suspect the lack of a backlash is largely due to the fact that you can get a higher capacity iPhone if you want one.

You are extrapolating your use cases on the public in general as though the way you use your device is the minimum requirement for the market.

I just double checked: the smallest storage device is, in fact, at the low end of the lineup.

screen%20shot%202015-02-09%20at%2010.30.36%20am.png
 
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16GB is not tight. 16GB is UNUSABLE. If people can get by with 16GB, they likely are not using their smartphone as a smartphone…

Besides the standard calendars, todo lists etc., I use my 16GB iPhone 6 to run Navigon (with maps stored on the phone), I use Pages and Numbers on it, I have my Apple Watch connected to it, I use Sky Guide on it. Altogether I have about sixty apps on it. What I don't do on my iPhone is play games or store music on it. I use my iPad Mini for them.

A 16GB iPhone can easily be used as a 'smart phone', unless you are using the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy and arbitrarily defining anything being done with a 16GB iPhone as 'not really a smart phone use'.
 
I dont understand how people dont get why customers are mad. Its not like the base memory hasnt been upgraded in the past. Original Iphone - 8gb, when technology of the iphone made 8gb too small the base was upgraded to 16gb per the Iphone 5. Lets say you dont buy that though. Lets say that you argue that the 16gb model is a entry point model for the Iphone. That would be a great argument.....except......when a new model comes out,Apple lowers the price of the last generation model and sells that as a entry point. If thats not enough they also have the Iphone C which they specifically made as a cheaper....aka entry point for price conscious consumers. So, to make the argument that its the base,introductory model is ludicrous. Apple has given customers at least two options for a entry into the Iphone. The 6s line is the flagship model. Top of the line. It absolutely,at this stage, has to have the base at 32gb. It just makes the product not function up to its true capacity to do less. If there wasnt a "c" Iphone line I would agree.

But, are customers mad? Or are some of the poster on MacRumors mad?
 
I dont understand how people dont get why customers are mad. Its not like the base memory hasnt been upgraded in the past. Original Iphone - 8gb, when technology of the iphone made 8gb too small the base was upgraded to 16gb per the Iphone 5. Lets say you dont buy that though. Lets say that you argue that the 16gb model is a entry point model for the Iphone. That would be a great argument.....except......when a new model comes out,Apple lowers the price of the last generation model and sells that as a entry point. If thats not enough they also have the Iphone C which they specifically made as a cheaper....aka entry point for price conscious consumers. So, to make the argument that its the base,introductory model is ludicrous. Apple has given customers at least two options for a entry into the Iphone. The 6s line is the flagship model. Top of the line. It absolutely,at this stage, has to have the base at 32gb. It just makes the product not function up to its true capacity to do less. If there wasnt a "c" Iphone line I would agree.
Here's what's funny: you set up exactly the reasons why I don't understand why people are angry, and then took a left turn at the end...

You have a great explanation of why Apple has a broad line of products to be attractive to various customers at various price/feature points-- why pick on some random one in the middle? Low end not low enough, I get. High end not high enough, I get. One random spec on one device in the middle causing this much angst, I don't get.

If 16GB is as unusable as some say, what's up with that 8GB model?! Someone finds it useful-- so the 16GB being unusable argument falls away.

You have no way of knowing that Apple won't be using the 16GB logic board in an iPhone 6c (I don't think-- do you? ;)). So if Apple can sell a 5c, why not a 6c?

The flagship is the 6s+ with maximum storage. The 16GB device is the least expensive device that gives you all the other features of the 6 line. Why do you think people won't be upset if you raise the price of that bottom end and people who wanted those features but don't need the storage have to pay more?
 
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If entry model is 16GB, definitely switching to Galaxy after having 5 iPhones.

Of course you will.

There's always someone on a forum like that you that makes these frankly, utterly silly remarks, thinking Apple will be reading and suddenly the whole company start a huge conference call stating that 'Edgar Spayce allegedly will switch to Samsung and Android if we don't go base 32gb guys. I mean come on, we have to now, right?? guys???'

You will not switch.

If you do someday? No one cares.
 
Why not leave it to capitalism and the free market? Apple makes the products they want, customers buy the products they want.
If you keep your eye on the profit, you’re going to skimp on the product. But if you focus on making really great products, then the profits will follow - Steve Jobs
You do realize that hans and Jobs are basically saying the same thing, right? If customers buy the products that Apple wants to make, then they are great products and the profits follow.

If your products aren't great, you can't charge enough for them to make a profit.

If this is an assertion that Apple has lost that philosophy after Job's death, look a few posts back at the profit share by OEM that I posted (rather than fill the space with the image again here). If profits follow great products, and Apple has 93% of the profits, who's making really great products?
 
All this complaining is unlikely to make a difference.

Microsoft didn't decide to unbundle the Kinect from Xbox One because people were complaining on Internet forums. They did it because the Playstation 4 was outselling the Xbox One by a large margin.
Similarly, large screened iPhones did not appear because iPhone users were getting trolled on account of the size of their phones. Apple decided to build them because Samsung was selling lots of Galaxy Notes. Remember those?

Do you want to save money and get exactly 32GB of storage? Buy the 32GB iPhone 5S.

The iPhone was never meant to serve as a storage device, like for example, the iPod Classic.
You can cry greed all you like but it's just product segmentation.
The 16 GB current generation iPhone offers absolutely everything the more expensive models do. It just cannot hold an entire media library of an intensive user.
It can hold the entire media library for many light users. It can also serve as an excellent smartphone for anyone but the most demanding user if the user can be bothered to spend 30 minutes a few times a year to back up and revisit what they need and don't need to have at their fingertips wherever they go.

You are partially right on the first account: vote with your wallet.

The rest is (usually, since you wrote the first part) hidden community managers trying to rationalised the unacceptable. I've been using Apple for 15 years, and converted 1000s of people because back then there was reason to: Apple customers were SMARTER.

Now thank to Steve Jobs mainly but also the trendsetting customers who believed and convinced many other customers, Apple can live on Jobs legacy for a few more years. And a legacy is responsibility, as much as a company responsibility is to make profit on the long term (while shareholders responsibility is to parasite the company like leeches to make profit on the short term).

The difference being that if a company wants to survive on the long term, they shouldn't scam, crook and screw customers like Apple is doing right now because part of the future, specifically the future fall of Apple is already written. When that happens is a matter of how they manager the long term, but the more they serve their shareholders before their customers by milking, retaining innovation, and squeezing decent specs and upgrades at a crazy overprice is bringing this fall close, faster.

I can't explain it all: smart people already have at least a feel at what I'm saying, prospecter (sharp analysts, no clowns like on Macrumors) already know exactly why, but stupid people wouldn't understand ish with truth serve a silver plate. But it is what is, and having a 16GB entry phone in 2015 is the kind a crookery that would deeply impact even the most casual customer in the image that Apple is just scam for stupid people today, if they're no convinced yet.
 
Does it matter, anyone with a bit of knowledge will stay far far away from that phone. I dont understand though why apple dont just up it to 32 just to reduce the headache of trying to explain all the ignorant people that 16gb is silly but they made their own choice.
 
Uh, no?

People would see paying $199 for 32GB as a much more logical way to spend money if they only need 28GB, compared to spending an extra $100 and having over half of the space unused.

People who only use 8GB aren't complaining that it's ridiculous to pay for 16GB.

Not only that, your argument is flawed because you're leaving 4GB of space with 32, compared to 36GB with a 64. Obviously it would make way more sense to buy a 32 instead of a 64 in this case, no?
So by your warped logic, Apple could just as easily stick with its older 16/32/64 storage model just so you don't feel "ripped off", never mind that you are still getting less for what you pay?

I don't understand this mentality at all. If I am in the market for a smartphone, I won't think "wow, this model offers me too much storage for my needs". I would look at the 16 and 64 GB models, recognize that 16 GB doesn't meet my needs, then go with whatever the next higher tier is because that's the one which does. I won't think "Apple is ripping me off by shoving more storage down my throat than what I will ever need".

And I think it's safe to conclude that the majority of Apple's consumers think this way as well, seeing how their ASF increased.
 
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