iPhone 7 no headphone Jack Petition

[Blaze4G]

That wireless EarPods rumour was only based off the recent patent Apple has for them. They will probably be something someone can buy and not the freebe included inbox headphones. I'm 99% positive the included EarPods will be Lightning. So no, they won't need an adapter or have to bring two sets of headphones.



It does because the majority use the free inbox EarPods, they won't have to change a single thing to keep using the free included inbox EarPods. Listening to music will be unchanged for them with the opportunity of higher quality HD audio. The benefits they gain are the other things that removing the 3.5mm can bring.

Such as
- more room inside the already super cramped iPhone for other things (like more battery or possible new tech)
- much easier to waterproof without a 3.5mm jack in there
- it could also allow for smaller bezels since the jack wouldn't be in there and go underneath the screen



Still convinced you didn't watch the video. If you actually did then you didn't understand it.

The benefit to audiophiles are high end headphones don't have to reply on the weak DAC and AMP currently inside the iPhone. Because they currently do, they are not getting the most out of their expensive headphones. And as the video also explained. Even if you plugged in an external DAC and AMP to a current iPhone, it's still not giving you the full power of the headphones because it still has to route through the weak DAC and AMP inside the iPhone.

Removing it from inside the iPhone allows these headphone manufacturers to make their own Lightning to 3.5mm DAC and AMP (or include them in the actual buckets) and actually get the full power of their headphones that they paid a lot of money for.

Plus they also get the other benefits that removing the 3.5mm can bring as I mentioned earlier in this post.

1. They will need an adapter or second headphones if they are bringing their macbook with them or any device that does not have a lightning port.

2. I won't even get into the "cramped" iPhone since I think it is too thin already. However this is highly debatable. If you want your phone to remain at the current thinness or thinner, I won't knock you for that...it is your preference. It is not rocket science to waterproof a phone with a headphone jack. Others manufacturers has done it, or is it because Apple is trying to save money once again instead of considering customers? Many phones on Android side has thin bezels with 3.5 jack so again, with great design and development it can be done.

3. I think you are the one not understanding (although I may be wrong). The current amp and dac drives the built in speakers AND the 3.5mm jack. The lightning port currently in the 6s is not using the internal amp and dac. Hence every lightning headphones on the market currently have their own dac and amp built in. Hence I said, go buy the SINE headphones. It will be using the AMP and DAC built into the headphones ONLY (based on my understanding). So you are not relying on the built in DAC. Hence I reiterate, you already have this benefit in the 6s. So what exactly are you gaining in regards to audio?

Point 2 is debatable. I Apple does come with some "revolutionary" or "unique" tech that is put into the space of the 3.5mm jack, even if it does not benefit me I would be completely fine. However if they are removing it for waterproofing or larger battery then that is crap.

 

[lagwagon]

1. They will need an adapter or second headphones if they are bringing their macbook with them or any device that does not have a lightning port.

2. I won't even get into the "cramped" iPhone since I think it is too thin already. However this is highly debatable. If you want your phone to remain at the current thinness or thinner, I won't knock you for that...it is your preference. It is not rocket science to waterproof a phone with a headphone jack. Others manufacturers has done it, or is it because Apple is trying to save money once again instead of considering customers? Many phones on Android side has thin bezels with 3.5 jack so again, with great design and development it can be done.

3. I think you are the one not understanding (although I may be wrong). The current amp and dac drives the built in speakers AND the 3.5mm jack. The lightning port currently in the 6s is not using the internal amp and dac. Hence every lightning headphones on the market currently have their own dac and amp built in. Hence I said, go buy the SINE headphones. It will be using the AMP and DAC built into the headphones ONLY (based on my understanding). So you are not relying on the built in DAC. Hence I reiterate, you already have this benefit in the 6s. So what exactly are you gaining in regards to audio?

Point 2 is debatable. I Apple does come with some "revolutionary" or "unique" tech that is put into the space of the 3.5mm jack, even if it does not benefit me I would be completely fine. However if they are removing it for waterproofing or larger battery then that is crap.

#2: Thinner, thicker it wouldn't matter. Removing the 3.5mm frees up a lot of valuable space for other things. I never said waterproofing couldn't be done with a 3.5mm jack, but it sure is easier to waterproof without one (which is what I said. Easier.) as for other phone having thinner bezels with a 3.5mm jack. They don't have 3D Touch that requires putting pressure down on the screen. A jack running underneath could effect that.

#3: No I understand it. You're completely forgetting or ignoring all the people who spent money on high end 3.5mm headphones. Those are all hindered by the weak DAC and AMP inside the iPhone. In some cases (mentioned in the video) even at full volume, it's still not enough to drive high end headphones. And again plugging in an additional external DAC and AMP for those currently still gets hindered because it still runs through the internal weak DAC and AMP (also mentioned in the video.) Removing the internal 3.5mm jack, DAC and AMP it allows headphone manufacturers to make their own Lighting to 3.5mm with DAC and AMP that is designed for their brand of headphones that will drive their headphones to the fullest potential that isn't possible now to them. (again, mentioned in the video)

Many, many people want waterproofing and/or more battery (probably could be the two most requested things each year.) So just because you might think those are crap, it doesn't make them crap for everyone.

 

[Mac 128]

And again plugging in an additional external DAC and AMP for those currently still gets hindered because it still runs through the internal weak DAC and AMP (also mentioned in the video.) Removing the internal 3.5mm jack, DAC and AMP it allows headphone manufacturers to make their own Lighting to 3.5mm with DAC and AMP that is designed for their brand of headphones that will drive their headphones to the fullest potential that isn't possible now to them. (again, mentioned in the video)

An external DAC and amp can be plugged into the Lightning port now, completely bypassing the internal DAC and amp of the iPhone. Whether they remove the 3.5mm Jack or not, that option presently exists for anyone who wants higher quality audio.

I'm not sure why anyone would plug an external DAC into the 3.5mm jack. So I'm a little confused as to your point here.

 

[mr.bee]

I don't mind removing the headphone jacket as long as the alternative is better.

for the first time one of my EarPods actually have a broken headphone jacket.
there's too much variance in the quality of the current standard EarPods. I hope this new headphone jacket helps that.

 

[sigp6]

It's 2016. The fact that we still have wires is a problem. Wireless is the future

Amen to that. I'd love to see both the 3.5 and Lightning gone with the introduction of wireless charging.

 

[Number-Six]

the thing is the ecosystem rhetoric isn't a rhetoric.
I use imessage and facetime almost everyday to talk to family, all of us live in different cities.

Apple is literally making me choose between my family and my headphone collection + my bluetooth-less car (and the ability to have my friends DJ on road trips!)

Not sure I understand your argument, you don't need headphones to iMessage or Facetime. I certainly hope you don't use Facetime in the car.

And lack of bluetooth in the car is not an argument either when you can get something like this for so cheap

 

[solo118]

As long as there is some sort of adapter for 3.5-> lightning I am OK with it. But it just sucks if you need to charge up while listening to music

 

[Blaze4G]

#2: Thinner, thicker it wouldn't matter. Removing the 3.5mm frees up a lot of valuable space for other things. I never said waterproofing couldn't be done with a 3.5mm jack, but it sure is easier to waterproof without one (which is what I said. Easier.) as for other phone having thinner bezels with a 3.5mm jack. They don't have 3D Touch that requires putting pressure down on the screen. A jack running underneath could effect that.

#3: No I understand it. You're completely forgetting or ignoring all the people who spent money on high end 3.5mm headphones. Those are all hindered by the weak DAC and AMP inside the iPhone. In some cases (mentioned in the video) even at full volume, it's still not enough to drive high end headphones. And again plugging in an additional external DAC and AMP for those currently still gets hindered because it still runs through the internal weak DAC and AMP (also mentioned in the video.) Removing the internal 3.5mm jack, DAC and AMP it allows headphone manufacturers to make their own Lighting to 3.5mm with DAC and AMP that is designed for their brand of headphones that will drive their headphones to the fullest potential that isn't possible now to them. (again, mentioned in the video)

Many, many people want waterproofing and/or more battery (probably could be the two most requested things each year.) So just because you might think those are crap, it doesn't make them crap for everyone.

2. I know that is what you said. What I said was it is not rocket science since others has done it. You prefer Apple to go the "easier" route. What about innovation? Are you saying Apple engineers are lazy so they go the easier route? It is easier to do MANY things, that does not mean it is how it should be done. It is easier to make a phone with big bezels so that is how it should be done? Stop with the excuses.

3. As I said you DONT understand. The lightning port currently bypasses the internal dac and amp. Let me make it easier for you, plug any headphone in the lightning port that does not have an amp and dac built in and you will not here anything.
The dac and amp in the iPhone 6s only powers the 3.5mm and the speakers. Nothing else.

So lets review:
All the benefits you will receive with the removal of the jack arguable exist already / technology is there.
1. make the phone a couple mm thicker so you can get your bigger battery
2. high quality audio can already be obtained from the lightning port
3. iPhone can be waterproof with the 3.5mm jack.

Now you may bring up again, thinner bezels. Bezels won't get thinner if the home button remains the same size. Apple focuses on symmetry. In addition, if the made the bottom bezel smaller, the top bezel will also be made smaller for symmetry. Thus the space gained will now be gone.

Now let me reiterate, if apple places something unique or innovative that goes in the place of the 3.5mm jack then I am all for it.

 

[Mac 128]

As long as there is some sort of adapter for 3.5-> lightning I am OK with it. But it just sucks if you need to charge up while listening to music

Why? There's a simple built-in solution in the adapter to solve that problem.

 

[teknikal90]

Not sure I understand your argument, you don't need headphones to iMessage or Facetime. I certainly hope you don't use Facetime in the car.

And lack of bluetooth in the car is not an argument either when you can get something like this for so cheap

a headphone jack is important to me.
so is imessage and facetime.

It seems that soon, I can't have both in one device. that's what I mean

 

[duction]

What ever happened too every hole is a goal

 

[brent12]

This is completely different. In the Lightning case, Apple replaced one proprietary cable/connector with another.

This rumour is them removing an industry standard, non-proprietary connector for no benefit or improvement in functionality.

Rumor has it that getting rid of that connector may enable a more waterproof phone which if true is a change I support.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Audio jack is a dead man walking.

Good riddance anyhow. It will suck for a bit and then ultimately be a win.

Progress hurts sometimes.

 

[tresmith]

Maybe they are not getting rid of the audio jack all together. they could be replacing it with a mini jack.

So it would make the rumors technically correct that they are getting rid of the 3.5 mm jack but replacing it with a mini jack.

 

[Simche]

Wow, if you think Apple will bend to this you might be shocked... Anyway, this is the 30pin-to-Lightning switch dilemma all over again, Apple follows it's own rules and decisions. If they remove it from the iPhone, you'll always have pre-existing iPhone's to choose from (otherwise there's an adapter).

 

[Osamede]

It does because the majority use the free inbox EarPods, they won't have to change a single thing to keep using the free included inbox EarPods. Listening to music will be unchanged for them with the opportunity of higher quality HD audio.

The majority throw those in a drawer and never see them again. Of the one who do use those mediocre no-isolation included earphones, call me crazy but I doubt they could spell "HD Audio" if you spotted them 6 of the seven letters. And they probably think a 192 kbps mp3 is great sounding.

Obviously "HD Audio" (basically a hoax anyway) is not a "benefit" for the average customer. So dont try to construct some alternate reality in which the removal of a universal audio port is anything but consumer-UNfriendly.

The benefits they gain are the other things that removing the 3.5mm can bring.

Such as
- more room inside the already super cramped iPhone for other things (like more battery or possible new tech)
- much easier to waterproof without a 3.5mm jack in there
- it could also allow for smaller bezels since the jack wouldn't be in there and go underneath the screen

On the evidence to date ( i.e Apple's very consistent pattern of changes so far) Apple will make a thinner phone. You know it yourself.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The majority throw those in a drawer and never see them again

Are you serious?!

I see ENDLESS amounts of people using the stock Ear Pods out and about. I'd wager it's by far the most used pair of headphones/earbuds among iOS users.

 

[Mac 128]

The majority throw those in a drawer and never see them again. Of the one who do use those mediocre no-isolation included earphones, call me crazy but I doubt they could spell "HD Audio" if you spotted them 6 of the seven letters. And they probably think a 192 kbps mp3 is great sounding.

Obviously "HD Audio" (basically a hoax anyway) is not a "benefit" for the average customer. So dont try to construct some alternate reality in which the removal of a universal audio port is anything but consumer-UNfriendly.

On the evidence to date ( i.e Apple's very consistent pattern of changes so far) Apple will make a thinner phone. You know it yourself.

Change is never consumer friendly at first, whether the end result is a benefit or not.

But, I agree with you. One can't really discuss how little impact this move will be to the consumer because most don't care about HQ audio, and are happy listening to music from 128bit sound files, over free Apple earbuds, and how the Lightning port will offer better quality audio. If the customer doesn't already care, it doesn't really matter. Besides Lightning is already perfectly capable of delivering HQ audio.

So the only reason to remove the 3.5mm Jack is that it takes up a lot of room performing a single redundant function, which could better be utilized for future improvements. If it's true that most of Apple's iPhone customers experience their audio through the free earbuds, which has been my annectdotal experience, then all the more reason to do this now.

Will Apple make a thinner phone? Maybe, but I feel like they've reached the limits of that experiment. A little thinner? Maybe. But there are advantages to that too. For instance, I've never used a case on my iPhone because I don't want to add additional bulk. If the next phone were half as thin as the current one, I might buy a case for it, because I've certainly paid the price in unnecessary damage for not having one.

Either way, if Apple only makes the phone thinner, but doesn't add additional features or battery life, then I will be dissapointed that Apple chose to eliminate the 3.5mm Jack at this time. On the other hand, I also believe doing so will only spur competition and innovation in the wireless audio industry and we will all benefit from that.

 

[Osamede]

Are you serious?!

I see ENDLESS amounts of people using the stock Ear Pods out and about. I'd wager it's by far the most used pair of headphones/earbuds among iOS users.

You see endless because there are endless iphones out there. But most throw these things in a drawer. Of the ones that do use them, many are using it as a phone headset, not for music? In other words if the thing only fit in one ear, hell it'd probably all the same to them. And then of the rest, if 128-192 kbps rips is what they are listening to, what is 24/96 or 24/192 going to mean other than snake oil? So....the average consumer "needs" a proprietary "HD Audio" headset like they need a hole in their head.

BTW Mac 128, feelings are nice, but facts are fairly clear: Apple is not going to do anything here other than make a thinner phone i.e. smaller bill of materials i.e "ka-ching" in the supply chain. And the bonus is revenue from proprietary accessories.

This is for Apple. It's not for you.

 

[turbineseaplane]

You see endless because there are endless iphones out there. But most throw these things in a drawer.

According to who?
Do you actually have any data on that?

Endless iPhones with endless amounts of people using the included ear buds sure sounds like "most people using the ear buds" to me.

 

[Osamede]

According to who?
Do you actually have any data on that?

Endless iPhones with endless amounts of people using the included ear buds sure sounds like "most people using the ear buds" to me.

If 10% of xx million people do something - it sure is a lot of people. But is that that most people? I would assume it doesnt take too much for anyone of voting age to figure out the difference between the terms "many people" and "most people". Well then again, look at the state of our democracy...

 

[turbineseaplane]

If 10% of xx million people do something - it sure is a lot of people. But is that that most people? I would assume it doesnt take too much for anyone of voting age to figure out the difference between the terms "many people" and "most people". Well then again, look at the state of our democracy...

Again... Do you have any data?
All I mainly see are users with white ear buds plugged in. You claim the opposite.

If you have some actual data that indicates something one way or the other, I'd love to see it! (seriously!)

Until then we could go back and forth forever and nobody is more correct than the other.

You have no data - I have no data - We have lots of anecdotes which are worth very little when looking at something macro like this.

 

[Mac 128]

Again... Do you have any data?
All I mainly see are users with white ear buds plugged in. You claim the opposite.

If you have some actual data that indicates something one way or the other, I'd love to see it! (seriously!)

Until then we could go back and forth forever and nobody is more correct than the other.

You have no data - I have no data - We have lots of anecdotes which are worth very little when looking at something macro like this.

That's how most threads are on here. People express their opinions as fact.

The fact is, I'm working out at my gym and of the 80% of people wearing headphones at all, 50% are white earbuds. 30% are wireless BT (largely Beats, or earbuds), 20% are wired headphones, with approx. 5% being non-white earbuds, and the rest are largely Beats. Major gym, probably 200 people here at the moment.

On the subway, I see mostly beats and white earbuds. Not a lot of Bluetooth.

And I completely conceded that's not necessarily representative of the 100 million iPhone users in the us ... But few are willing to discuss their positions hypothetically, and usually get hostile when contradicted, even in the absence of data.

Even though far from an adequate sample, however, it does tell me that most people don't shove their Apple earbuds in a drawer. And I suspect if Apple removes the 3.5mm jack, they know that too.

 

[Osamede]

So lets so
1) Both of you dont understand the difference between the words "many" and "most". And dont even understand that you dont understand.
2) Mac128 produces random anecdotes from the gym - a subset of the actual pool. This he calls a sample. Except he has no actual "sample" ie concrete data - just random numbers he plucked out the air, even by his own account.

In fact, only 56% of people listen to music on their smartphones in the first place - and we havent even deducted from this the ones who only do it on speakerphone or bluetooth.
https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/...o-listen-to-music-according-to-the-npd-group/

And then we havent begun to deduct the ones who buy all those headphones that the shops are full of.

So the idea of "most people use the free earbuds" is an utter joke.

 

[turbineseaplane]

https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/...o-listen-to-music-according-to-the-npd-group/

Where is the actual breakdown of what smartphones they were even talking about? (I can't seem to find it)

We are obviously only talking about Apple devices here, so "general smartphone" data of any kind is really rather useless..

@Osamede: You don't have any data on this! Why do you keep trying to insinuate that your opinion is more valid than anyone else's?

Both @Mac 128 and I routinely see a lot of white earbuds. Do we know what percentage of iOS users shove them in drawers vs use them?

No. And you don't either

All we can do is share our anecdotal evidence. Everyone I know that's a normal iOS user (i.e. has never even heard of this forum) uses their white ear buds. Some have an additional pair of something for travel (Bose QC's for example), but I personally don't actually know anyone that doesn't use their white ear buds quite a bit, including myself (Podcasts, Music and FaceTime...and laptop use too sometimes)

All our opinions are equally valid on this.