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My main gripe is credit card readers for an entire company. BEST case scenario is this premium costing lightning to 3.5mm dongle works at all. Worst case is it doesn't work.

Do you see the problem?

The best case is new iPhones cost us 30-50 dollars more because we need to get a dongle for each one. The iPhone already carried a premium over the competition, add another 30-50 dollars each and there is no way I could sweet talk our bosses into sticking with iPhones. I could probably get iPhone 6Ss for a while but that will only last so long before people start complaining.

And of course the worst case is it doesn't work at all thus leaving us no choice but to switch.

What good does a high quality DAC do for a credit card reader? Lol

Regardless I'm just going to wait and see what happens before investing too much thought into. Might be a total non issue, or might still have the headphone jack.

Credit card readers simply send the data via an analogue signal over the headphone port, which is then converted via the ADC in the iPhone where the card app software picks up the digital signal. I don't see any reason why this wouldn't happen on the Lightning to 3.5mm adapter exactly the way it does now. Now that I think about it, even the app software should still work, as it's looking for a digital signal coming in off the mic bus. Routing that signal through the Lightning port shouldn't change that. The conversion simply happens inside the adapter, and not the iPhone. Obviously there's still a cost for the adapter, but I don't expect them to cost much more than $20-30 at most. And you don't even need good ones. I'll bet companies like square offer their own low-cost adapters which only have an ADC (and not a DAC) to convert the card info.

I'd say your bigger problem is going to be upgrading to chip readers, whether or not you offer contactless readers as well. And when you do that, you can upgrade to Lightning readers which should work just fine with your Legacy Lightning iPhones as well. Not really seeing a problem here. Might be one of the reasons Apple is doing this now, rather than later after everyone has upgraded their credit card readers for chipped cards, with headphone jack models.
 
As a previous owner of an iPad Air 2 it is my opinion that Apple's mobile OS experience is much nicer to use than its competitors'. I'd really like to switch to an iPhone but for me to switch from Android I'd need Apple to keep the 3.5mm jack and upgrade the base storage to at least 32GB.

Changing an industry standard wired connection to a different proprietary wired connector makes no logical sense to me from a design perspective. I'm open to non-aggressive discussion if somebody wants to explain how they believe this change will be beneficial to the consumer, improve user experience, or help to move the industry forward?

I'd perhaps be a little more welcoming toward the idea if the lightning connector was replaced with a USB-C port.
 
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Couple things

1. This is just a RUMOR. Creating a petition based on a RUMOR is silly to begin with.
2. Even if it's true, real impact will probably not as "severe" as many would think. Most people would just use the stock earbud. Sure, there will be some moaning and groaning, but that will be in minority. Besides, it's not like Apple removed the headphone jack form all their product line. If people are sticking with the 5S due to its size, there will be people sticking with the 6/6S for the headphone jack, and by the time they want to upgrade, I'm sure 3rd party alternatives would be more abundant.
3. Businesses. Most businesses have longer product upgrade cycle. So why would they suddenly have issues when only the new iPhones not having 3.5mm jack? Again, majority of the lineup still has the 3.5mm jack. This transition will help products to move on to lightning. Even then, people can still use the older models. I mean businesses don't have to immediately upgrade all their hardware. :rolleyes:

So even if it's true (again, it's just a RUMOR), it will only create noise from the busybodies of the internet (tech bloggers, youtubers, all people that get free products and revenue from being loud). Most consumers will probably just do a "meh." And again, it's just a RUMOR.
 
Yeah Apple is going to throw millions of dollars in R&D because a few weirdos are angry they will have to buy an adapter. Same morons who complained when lightning came around.

yes, but steve jobs always said never go backwards. well the lightning took away the ability to stream video via the cable! I went and bought a dvd head unit for my car, that my phone plugged into to play vids on my phone over to my stereo, and suddenly......... you cant anymore!
 
I can still remember when so many, including people in this forum, swore they would never buy another iPhone if they made the screen bigger than the 4.

This forum is notorious for having Apple fans like this. There were those who swore they wouldn't buy an iPhone if it were bigger than the 5. People who swore they wouldn't buy iPhone again until they raised base storage from 16GB.

And who could forget those that swore they would NEVER buy the iPhone 4 when it was leaked, then instantly shut up and purchased it once it was officially revealed? :p
 
This forum is notorious for having Apple fans like this. There were those who swore they wouldn't buy an iPhone if it were bigger than the 5. People who swore they wouldn't buy iPhone again until they raised base storage from 16GB.

And who could forget those that swore they would NEVER buy the iPhone 4 when it was leaked, then instantly shut up and purchased it once it was officially revealed? :p

Could not agree more! People change as do their tastes.
 
yes, but steve jobs always said never go backwards. well the lightning took away the ability to stream video via the cable! I went and bought a dvd head unit for my car, that my phone plugged into to play vids on my phone over to my stereo, and suddenly......... you cant anymore!
I can stream video via mine. Just bought a lightning to HDMI adapter and I'm golden.
 
The fact on if the headphone jack is going away has likely already been decided as I am sure the iPhone 7 parts are getting ready to go into production. Likely the circuit board prototypes are in testing and changing is not something that will happen because of a petition like this.
 
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Credit card readers simply send the data via an analogue signal over the headphone port, which is then converted via the ADC in the iPhone where the card app software picks up the digital signal. I don't see any reason why this wouldn't happen on the Lightning to 3.5mm adapter exactly the way it does now. Now that I think about it, even the app software should still work, as it's looking for a digital signal coming in off the mic bus. Routing that signal through the Lightning port shouldn't change that. The conversion simply happens inside the adapter, and not the iPhone. Obviously there's still a cost for the adapter, but I don't expect them to cost much more than $20-30 at most. And you don't even need good ones. I'll bet companies like square offer their own low-cost adapters which only have an ADC (and not a DAC) to convert the card info.

I'd say your bigger problem is going to be upgrading to chip readers, whether or not you offer contactless readers as well. And when you do that, you can upgrade to Lightning readers which should work just fine with your Legacy Lightning iPhones as well. Not really seeing a problem here. Might be one of the reasons Apple is doing this now, rather than later after everyone has upgraded their credit card readers for chipped cards, with headphone jack models.

You're dancing around what my gripe is, we have card and chip readers. They use 3.5mm jacks.

If the headphone jack disappear we will need to buy an adapter or buy new lightning equipment readers once available. Or just upgrade to devices that don't need sold separately accessories.

Anything with a lightning connector carries a premium due to Apples licensing fees unless you are willing to risk using a Chinese knock off with hacked locked out chip. We (I) are not, not for a charging cable and especially not for a cable that carries my customers credit information.

Like I said we'll just need to wait and see what happens. If accessories are available immediately I can probably sweet talk our bank into supplying them to us because they have the most to lose.
 
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You're dancing around what my gripe is, we have card and chip readers. They use 3.5mm jacks.

If the headphone jack disappear we will need to buy an adapter or buy new lightning equipment readers once available. Or just upgrade to devices that don't need sold separately accessories.

Anything with a lightning connector carries a premium due to Apples licensing fees unless you are willing to risk using a Chinese knock off with hacked locked out chip. We (I) are not, not for a charging cable and especially not for a cable that carries my customers credit information.

Like I said we'll just need to wait and see what happens. If accessories are available immediately I can probably sweet talk our bank into supplying them to us because they have the most to lose.

Oh, I know your gripe. It would absolutely be my gripe to if it directly affected me. The fact that I can't buy a MacBook Pro with an Ethernet port is MY grip. And the fact that I have to use an adapter with it is frustrating beyond words, especially because it's supposed to be a Pro machine. But over the years I have gotten used to it. I've tried windows, and despite the fact that every few years after a massive investment in the latest and greatest tech Apple has constrained me into buying, and all the adapters I've had to buy to keep using my expensive investments in hardware, I'm happy to do it to stick with Apple.

That said, you're still likely only talking about a $5-10 adapter that your credit card reader company is likely to supply, and likely with a bulk discount -- heck they may even give them away. Granted that's on top of your initial investment, but it's by no means as bad as buying a $30-40 adapter, or replacing the entire card reader equipment. And since the Square card reader is only $10, I'd guess it would probably be easier and cheaper to just replace the card reader, after you've gotten sufficient use out of the original. It's not like the 6S is going to be obsolete when the 7 comes out. Then there's contactless payments. At some point, you may want to upgrade your equipment to accept Pay anyway. The Lightning license fee may also a negligible cost, which will simply be built into the price of the product. That's actually the least of my concerns with this move. Apple could charge pennies for the licenses and still make billions of dollars.

As for upgrading to devices that don't need adapters, well I'd almost bet that if Apple removes the 3.5mm jack, within a year, most of the Android flagship phones will too. Apple isn't doing this arbitrarily, they're likely doing it to make room for other improvements and features. In which case, the Android makers are in the same boat. On the other hand, once a phone hits a certain size, those constraints are lifted, so you may find yourself issuing your employees gigantic Android phablets to enable the switch. They will be cheaper of course, and one wonders why any company wouldn't go that route to begin with unless there are other considerations. My company will not support an Android phone on our network because of the security issues, but perhaps that doesn't affect your company.

In any event, I don't deny, it will be inconvenient for some. But no more inconvenient than any change Apple has made during their almost 40 year history.
 
As a previous owner of an iPad Air 2 it is my opinion that Apple's mobile OS experience is much nicer to use than its competitors'. I'd really like to switch to an iPhone but for me to switch from Android I'd need Apple to keep the 3.5mm jack and upgrade the base storage to at least 32GB.

Changing an industry standard wired connection to a different proprietary wired connector makes no logical sense to me from a design perspective. I'm open to non-aggressive discussion if somebody wants to explain how they believe this change will be beneficial to the consumer, improve user experience, or help to move the industry forward?

I'd perhaps be a little more welcoming toward the idea if the lightning connector was replaced with a USB-C port.

Watch the video I posted in the previous page. It explains one very good reason it benefits the consumer the audio listening experience.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ne-jack-petition.1948735/page-4#post-22549699

There are also other benefits, such as more room inside the already cramped iPhone for other things (such as new additional tech, or more battery.), It's easier to waterproof without the headphone jack, the possibility of smaller bezels, thinner, lighter.
 
I don't care if it does go thinner or not. I actually want it gone and the lighting port. I want Bluetooth and wireless charging.
 
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Actually there are benefits to getting rid of the 3.5mm headphone jack and moving audio to the Lightning connector. It's not just a money grab for Apple. Here is a video that really explains what those benefits are.

Thank You, super video, really explains what is happening. The nay sayers as usual don't understand, don't have there tech facts correct, or have an agenda. I laugh at he petition to try and stop the 3.5 jack removal. It's not about the jack at all. It's about improving the DAT and AMP. Ahhh so grasshopper, now you see the truth of it all.

Now I am really looking forward to getting rid of the 3.5 connected and getting the digital output from the lightening connector. When will people understand Apple doesn't dream these things up over the weekend. They put real design effort into the changes and pull the masses into the next improvement.

Future quote....."Remember the crappy sound from the old 3.5 connector. Sure am glad they got rid of it, it's like I bought a brand new set of earphones, sound is so great." Dated Jan 14th 2018
 
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Thank You, super video, really explains what is happening. The nay sayers as usual don't understand, don't have there tech facts correct, or have an agenda. I laugh at he petition to try and stop the 3.5 jack removal. It's not about the jack at all. It's about improving the DAT and AMP. Ahhh so grasshopper, now you see the truth of it all.

Now I am really looking forward to getting rid of the 3.5 connected and getting the digital output from the lightening connector. When will people understand Apple doesn't dream these things up over the weekend. They put real design effort into the changes and pull the masses into the next improvement.

I'm looking forward to it too. It allows improvements to the phone itself with giving them more space inside the phone to work with for future tech or even battery, pus easier to waterproof and as the video I linked explains, a far superior audio listening experience.

Some won't ever understand because some are so reluctant to any change whatsoever. As proven time and time again on forums. I swear if Apple moved the clock and date in the lock screen down a few pixels we would see threads about it and how they don't like it.
 
I don't care if it does go thinner or not. I actually want it gone and the lighting port. I want Bluetooth and wireless charging.
Bluetooth is already here buddy. Also regarding wireless charging
you don't want it just yet... It isn't exactly problem free, which goes against the standards & expectations Apple try to uphold regarding the consumers experience. Go out and buy a
phone with wireless charging and you'll see what im getting at.
 
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I'm looking forward to it too. It allows improvements to the phone itself with giving them more space inside the phone to work with for future tech or even battery, pus easier to waterproof and as the video I linked explains, a far superior audio listening experience.

Some won't ever understand because some are so reluctant to any change whatsoever. As proven time and time again on forums. I swear if Apple moved the clock and date in the lock screen down a few pixels we would see threads about it and how they don't like it.

Move the clock and date? ARE YOU CRAZY, I CAN'T USE THE PHONE NOW!!!!! Apple is doomed, they went to far, never gonna buy an iPhone again. Steve spinning in his grave. Never would have let this happen.

Like that you mean? :eek::eek::eek:
 
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Thank You, super video, really explains what is happening. The nay sayers as usual don't understand, don't have there tech facts correct, or have an agenda. I laugh at he petition to try and stop the 3.5 jack removal. It's not about the jack at all. It's about improving the DAT and AMP. Ahhh so grasshopper, now you see the truth of it all.

Now I am really looking forward to getting rid of the 3.5 connected and getting the digital output from the lightening connector. When will people understand Apple doesn't dream these things up over the weekend. They put real design effort into the changes and pull the masses into the next improvement.

Future quote....."Remember the crappy sound from the old 3.5 connector. Sure am glad they got rid of it, it's like I bought a brand new set of earphones, sound is so great." Dated Jan 14th 2018

I don't think you get the point of some of the "naysayers". Apple is not doing this to improve customer experience. They are doing it to fatten their pockets. Sure from a business perspective that's great. As a consumer some feel ripped off.

Secondly you do realize you can get the digital input you oh so desire now from the lightning cable from a 6s right? With the improved DAC and AMP. Guess what the 6s also has a 3.5mm jack. So let us break it down. You want digital audio and you got it currently, YAY you! Some want 3.5 mm jack and they got it currently YAY them! Iphone 7 loses the 3.5mm jack and now people are unhappy but you're still happy, YAY you. So are you that selfish? It is all about what you want and whoever does not want the same thing as you they should shut up right?

Let me quote you incase you missed my point "Now I am really looking forward to getting rid of the 3.5 connected and getting the digital output from the lightening connector. " You already have this, go get your lightning headphones and enjoy it now. What are you waiting for? Didn't you say you're looking forward to it?
 
I don't think you get the point of some of the "naysayers". Apple is not doing this to improve customer experience. They are doing it to fatten their pockets. Sure from a business perspective that's great. As a consumer some feel ripped off.

Secondly you do realize you can get the digital input you oh so desire now from the lightning cable from a 6s right? With the improved DAC and AMP. Guess what the 6s also has a 3.5mm jack. So let us break it down. You want digital audio and you got it currently, YAY you! Some want 3.5 mm jack and they got it currently YAY them! Iphone 7 loses the 3.5mm jack and now people are unhappy but you're still happy, YAY you. So are you that selfish? It is all about what you want and whoever does not want the same thing as you they should shut up right?

Let me quote you incase you missed my point "Now I am really looking forward to getting rid of the 3.5 connected and getting the digital output from the lightening connector. " You already have this, go get your lightning headphones and enjoy it now. What are you waiting for? Didn't you say you're looking forward to it?

You OBVIOUSLY didn't watch the video I linked at all...

Or you didn't understand a single bit of it.
 
You OBVIOUSLY didn't watch the video I linked at all...

Or you didn't understand a single bit of it.

I did. What was wrong with what I said? Majority of consumers are satisfied with the junk white airpods that comes with iPhones. What makes you think they want extremely high quality audio?

So okay, Apple removes the jack.. Resulting in tons of headphone manufacturers to build more lightning earphones. How does that help majority of the iPhone consumers who still uses the earpods that comes in the box? Also with licensing cost, the lightning cable from manufacturers are going to be expensive.

Again how does this benefit majority of the consumers who just wants cheap earphones to hear some music?

As I said, if Apple makes this decision, it is for profits first, not for consumers.
 
I did. What was wrong with what I said? Majority of consumers are satisfied with the junk white airpods that comes with iPhones. What makes you think they want extremely high quality audio?

So okay, Apple removes the jack.. Resulting in tons of headphone manufacturers to build more lightning earphones. How does that help majority of the iPhone consumers who still uses the earpods that comes in the box? Also with licensing cost, the lightning cable from manufacturers are going to be expensive.

Again how does this benefit majority of the consumers who just wants cheap earphones to hear some music?

Pretty simple. The EarPods provided will be Lightning connector and not a single thing changes for them.
 
Pretty simple. The EarPods provided will be Lightning connector and not a single thing changes for them.

Well rumor has it the earpods that will come in the box will be bluetooth. So everything changes for them if that is the case. If not then they will also have to either buy an adapter when travelling or bring 2 headphones. How convenient.

How does it benefit majority of iPhone consumers? It does not.

How does it benefit the minority of iPhone consumers who are audiophiles? It does not because the technology is already there. Sine lightning headphones has been getting great reviews, what more do you want?
 
Well rumor has it the earpods that will come in the box will be bluetooth. So everything changes for them if that is the case. If not then they will also have to either buy an adapter when travelling or bring 2 headphones. How convenient.

That wireless EarPods rumour was only based off the recent patent Apple has for them. They will probably be something someone can buy and not the freebe included inbox headphones. I'm 99% positive the included EarPods will be Lightning. So no, they won't need an adapter or have to bring two sets of headphones.

How does it benefit the majority of iPhone consumers? It does not.

It does because the majority use the free inbox EarPods, they won't have to change a single thing to keep using the free included inbox EarPods. Listening to music will be unchanged for them with the opportunity of higher quality HD audio. The benefits they gain are the other things that removing the 3.5mm can bring.

Such as
- more room inside the already super cramped iPhone for other things (like more battery or possible new tech)
- much easier to waterproof without a 3.5mm jack in there
- it could also allow for smaller bezels since the jack wouldn't be in there and go underneath the screen

How does it benefit the minority of iPhone consumers who are audiophiles? It does not because the technology is already there. Sine lightning headphones has been getting great reviews, what more do you want?

Still convinced you didn't watch the video. If you actually did then you didn't understand it.

The benefit to audiophiles are high end headphones don't have to reply on the weak DAC and AMP currently inside the iPhone. Because they currently do, they are not getting the most out of their expensive headphones. And as the video also explained. Even if you plugged in an external DAC and AMP to a current iPhone, it's still not giving you the full power of the headphones because it still has to route through the weak DAC and AMP inside the iPhone.

Removing it from inside the iPhone allows these headphone manufacturers to make their own Lightning to 3.5mm DAC and AMP (or include them in the actual buckets) and actually get the full power of their headphones that they paid a lot of money for.

Plus they also get the other benefits that removing the 3.5mm can bring as I mentioned earlier in this post.
 
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