iPhone Hardware Engineering Chief Mark Papermaster Leaves Apple

[Eidorian]

That's not an investment, it's an expense. The value doesn't appreciate.

Buying AAPL is an investment. The goal of acquiring investments is an increase in value.

I don't remember equating the my purchase of a video card to an investment. It might make sense if I made money from of the speed of CUDA/OpenCL operations. I'll need to work on that.

I still get the feeling that you are a generally unhappy person. I remember you claiming that you are a hardcore hardware person and know all the specs about everything, but there appears to be little joy when you talk about anything.

Regretfully I can't drone on about the gratification from my investments or an endless infatuation with a corporation.

Perhaps the last time I was happy was when I was running around a Chilean harbor defending it from American attacks in some modern day adaptation of a Cold War invasion drama on a small scale. Then again that doesn't have any basis in reality.

 

[cvaldes]

Well, I'd argue that I get more than people like LTD, and apparently yourself, in that MS is selling record copies of Windows. So where do you get the idea that PC sales are decreasing? They are setting records! So there goes that idea.

Also, someone in the position of market dominance is in a stronger position. Apple's position is tenuous because it hinges ON those high margins. A vertical integration strategy never wins. Surely Apple is peaking now, and will begin the same downward slide they experienced before. Steve Jobs failed pretty hard at NeXT, and the Mac wasn't any sort of success until Apple canned jobs and opened up the platform a bit.

If Apple "dominates" in the over $1000 market it's BECAUSE most of their models are in that range, and MOST PC models are not! It's a specious argument at best. Using all of these silly food metaphors just confounds the reality that OSX is nice, but it's simply not better than Windows. In quite a few ways, it's behind. Yes, it's a nice little package, and it's what I use. I have all of the Apple crap, iPhone, iPad, iMac, MobileMe...yeah, I've paid for all of it. However the difference is that I'm not a blind raving fanboy that doesn't understand how this stuff works, or that doesn't see the plain writing on the wall for Apple.

They aren't going to be media darlings forever, and they are engaging in some highly stupid activities. Steve Jobs is in a position of power and is showing his true colors to the general public, instead of just to the people who know him or pay attention. Apple's stock price is slightly inflated due to the stock market's current infatuation with them. MS makes more money, and actually has higher margins. I agree they have a stark lack of leadership and vision right now, but they are executing on some fronts. I know a few Apple diehards who are becoming fairly disillusioned with the quality of Apple's pro market offerings...things are going to start coming apart for them unless they start paying more attention to the markets that actually matter. Things like the iPhone and iPad could turn so quickly on them, and all they would be left with is a neglected OSX platform. Of course we will see what they come up with since apparently they are doing something "revolutionary"...

Anyway, the point of this is before you go around accusing other people of "not getting it" or whatever you want to call it, make sure it's not you yourself that is the one that doesn't really understand what is going on here. I am pretty confident that I know exactly what the game is, thanks.

Fine. Show me the money.

Name one PC hardware company whose ROI and long-term outlook is better than that of AAPL. Because if there is, I am very willing to sink some money into that company. I just sold some other equities, so I have a pile of cash sitting around in my money market brokerage account.

Tell me which hotshot company I should be a part owner of.

And forget MSFT, I'm a longtime shareholder of that company, I read their SEC filings and vote yearly against Steve Ballmer in the annual proxy ballot.

 

[admanimal]

If Apple "dominates" in the over $1000 market it's BECAUSE most of their models are in that range, and MOST PC models are not! It's a specious argument at best.

Your logic is a bit off on this one. You can easily spend over $1000 on a machine from any of the major brands. The point is that when people do want to spend that much, they buy a Mac. If Apple was the only brand that made $1000+ machines then you would be correct; however, they are not.

 

[*LTD*]

Call me when this changes:

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/838136--apple-lifted-by-strong-sales-of-ipad-and-iphone-4

Until then, what *you* think, what your buddies think, what you're "predicting", is rather meaningless. If your opinion doesn't follow the numbers, the money, the pace-setters (Apple, for example), you're just dreaming.

Yes, one day Apple's vertical integration strategy might not be so successful, etc. Someday things might change. No kidding. That's true of everything.

Until then, Apple owns at least the next 5 years in tech. Better to get used to the idea *now.*

How so? Why? Simple: it all comes down to their *attitude* about what tech should mean to everyday people. Read their mission statement. It's pretty clear what their priorities are, and their products reflect this consistently. As within, so without.

 

[cvaldes]

I don't remember equating the my purchase of a video card to an investment. It might make sense if I made money from of the speed of CUDA/OpenCL operations. I'll need to work on that.

Go re-read your post above. I see the word "invest" in post #181.

Actually, let me save you the trouble and put it right here (emphasis mine):

I'll admit that I have an obsessive compulsion to save and later invest what I can. Though spending the extra few dollars to get my GTX 460 early on launch week was worth it.

Enjoy that video card though!

 

[Eidorian]

Go re-read your post above. I see the word "invest" in post #181.

In an entirely different sentence with no relation to the others.

I will make the following correction though, that gratification through material possessions is marginally gratifying.

 

[cvaldes]

In an entirely different sentence with no relation to the others.

Well then your writing skills are poor. Why would you put a totally unrelated statement about investing in the same paragraph as buying hardware?

When sentences are grouped together in a paragraph, it is because they are inter-related parts of an overall thought, concept, or event.

If you wish to stand by your argument that the "investing" comment has nothing to do with hardware purchases, that's fine. Just own up to your poor writing. You already bungled the "gratification" comment.

 

[admanimal]

Well then your writing skills are poor. Why would you put a totally unrelated statement about investing in the same paragraph as buying hardware?

When sentences are grouped together in a paragraph, it is because they are inter-related parts of an overall thought, concept, or event.

It was totally clear to me that he was saying he usually saves/invests, but on one occasion bought a video card instead. Nothing about the way he worded it suggests that the video card was the investment.

 

[Eidorian]

Well then your writing skills are poor. Why would you put a totally unrelated statement about investing in the same paragraph as buying hardware?

When sentences are grouped together in a paragraph, it is because they are inter-related parts of an overall thought, concept, or event.

It's the internet and sadly sarcasm is also one more thing that comes across rather poorly.

Frankly, I don't believe it's worth the effort to catch the remaining 1% that it really matters to.

It was totally clear to me that he was saying he usually saves/invests, but on one occasion bought a video card instead. Nothing about the way he worded it suggests that the video card was the investment.

This is what I was attempting to convey.

 

[cvaldes]

It's the internet and sadly sarcasm is also one more thing that comes across rather poorly.

Use the smileys, dude. That's what they're there for.

Frankly, I don't believe it's worth the effort to catch the remaining 1% that it really matters to.

And yet, you continue to engage me in these sort of conversations. Obviously, you do think it's worth the effort.



Have a great evening! It has been a blast!

 

[cvaldes]

That would certainly explain a lot about your perception of the reality here. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next few years the value of that stock is far below what it is now...

Not my problem. I didn't buy AAPL stock recently. Nor did I buy MSFT that recently either.

AAPL could drop to a hundred bucks and my ROI would still be over 100%. But I'd never hold it long enough to let it slide from $260 to 100 at this point. I let it slide in the 2008 droop, but not again.

 

[stangmmx]

You're talking like Apple is the only one. PC sales still absolutely DWARF mac sales. MS sells about a million copies of Windows 7 a day. Apple is rejoicing over the fact they are selling a million macs a month. Huge difference.

Thank God someone else realizes this. I was interviewing for a position with Apple a while back. It was for a retail position, but I had to have a backup plan as a recent graduate, so I went for it.

I can't remember exactly how I phrased it, but when the interviewer asked me about a possible business plan to increase sales, I said the only way of conquering PC sales would be reaching out to larger corporations or mid cap businesses. He looked completely confused. He said something like, "Well, I'm not sure that's Apple's target audience."

Last time I checked, Apple's target audience is virtually everyone... That's why they capitalize on such simple to use OS's.

Maybe to us this may seem obvious, but the majority of the retail folk that I met at Apple know VERY little about the product.

Sorry for the off topic rant. I had to vent.

 

[rconsult4602]

y fire the iphone4 boss?

so the phone has poor reception, you have to hold it a certain way,,BUT,,it is CUTE!!,,and,,u get a free plastic frame to hang your "work of art" on the wall!!...it's all good!!

 

[cvaldes]

Thank God someone else realizes this. I was interviewing for a position with Apple a while back. It was for a retail position, but I had to have a backup plan as a recent graduate, so I went for it.

I can't remember exactly how I phrased it, but when the interviewer asked me about a possible business plan to increase sales, I said the only way of conquering PC sales would be reaching out to larger corporations or mid cap businesses. He looked completely confused. He said something like, "Well, I'm not sure that's Apple's target audience."

Last time I checked, Apple's target audience is virtually everyone... That's why they capitalize on such simple to use OS's.

Maybe to us this may seem obvious, but the majority of the retail folk that I met at Apple know VERY little about the product.

Sorry for the off topic rant. I had to vent.

In the context of a retail sales position and potential sales opportunities in that capacity, what you said was irrelevant since you weren't answering the interviewer's question: what would you do as a retail sales associate in increasing sales?

You weren't applying for an enterprise, biz dev or channel sales position. Fortune 500 CIOs aren't walking into Apple Stores and talking to retail sales associates about how to get the best bang out of their corporate IT budget. You're not going to hammer out a deal to sell five thousand MacBooks to General Electric or two hundred Mac minis to the Wynn Las Vegas casino.

I assume you were not offered the position and rightfully so. While it appears that you have some good ideas about business, your thoughtlessness in the context of the retail sales position shows that you might have some things to polish up before you are ready for those responsibilities. Sorry about that, try again in a couple of years.

Remember that you were competing with a lot of experienced retail sales people. With the high unemployment rate, the competition is fierce. Your slip cost you.

Employers love this scenario because they are getting extremely qualified candidates.

'Twas a very entertaining rant though.

 

[gnagy]

I let it slide in the 2008 droop, but not again.

That 2008 drop was awesome. It allowed me to purchase shares for double digits. Of course I sold too quick.

 

[Master Chief]

Yeah. Let's all point fingers. It was Chief Mark Papermaster who personally designed the antenna. Right? So much for people who think that Steve Jobs [personally] is on top of everything. I tell you he is not. Sorry for bringing the bad news to you, but you should have known better.

And there is still no official Press Info available about his resignation, and Bob Mansfield is still listed as "Mac Hardware Engineering" and thus I rather wait. Let's see what Apple comes up with. That to me as stock holder is worth a fortune. Is he returning to IBM again? Here's a nice one; Who left IBM recently?

p.s. I don't think that Bob Mansfield had anything to do with the Retina display [LG invention].

 

[flottenheimer]

Maybe he just grew tired of Apple. Maybe he was simply offered a better job. Maybe he was fired. Maybe... Maybe... Maybe...

 

[StoneyG]

Please don't ever compare Canadians to Americans again. Just because we share a boarder doesn't make us the same.

Well, we are the same. Hate to break it to you. [I'm Canadian]

To those who think that there shouldn't be any addtional focus on the Mac side of things simply because they were just updated, please think a little harder. It's not as if the Mac team just thinks of a Mac, and ***** it out on cue. There's constant work to do on subsequent generations of them, in those days that lie in between the product launch dates.

I have an iPhone 4, and I think it's an amazing device.

 

[jca666us]

Was it just the antenna?

I think bc of the timing, Papermaster getting the boot had to do with all of the iphone 4 issues coming to light.

1. Antenna issues.
2. Proximity sensor issues.
3. White iphone being delayed *twice*.

Third strike in a month, the big guy (Papermaster) is out.

 

[StoneyG]

Bottled water makes me cringe hard. I have a hard enough time swallowing syrup water.

I always find this line of thought funny. The fact that bottle water is actually BETTER FOR YOU than Coke et al should make it the lesser of the two scams, no? "Oh but you're getting more for your money with the Coke, what with the carbonation, the teeth dissolving, stomach rotting, diabetes inducing action!"

 

[weckart]

Yes, because knowing the gossip that goes on behind closed doors really improves your Apple experience.

Posted by THX1139 on Macrumors. Bless.

 

[StoneyG]

TennisandMusic, you made a lot of baseless points. You say that Windows 7 is inferior to Snow Leopard. How so? Even if it was, how would that prove that Apple will ultimately fail? Do people only ever buy the better product?

What do you mean that Jobs has "shown his true colours"? Really? I can see how if you've been reading the newspapers, and believe everything that you read, that you would get the impression that there's been some shift, or that he wears all sorts of masks.

I'm glad for you that you own all those Apple products, and know how they work (so the rest of us have something to aspire to). Yet you seem categorically frustrated with Apple. I don't really understand what your (nebulous) point there was.

-Written on my iPhone from a remote part of one the Gulf Islands where reception is nearly nonexistent, regardless of phone type or carrier.

 

[TennisandMusic]

TennisandMusic, you made a lot of baseless points. You say that Windows 7 is inferior to Snow Leopard. How so? Even if it was, how would that prove that Apple will ultimately fail? Do people only ever buy the better product?

What do you mean that Jobs has "shown his true colours"? Really? I can see how if you've been reading the newspapers, and believe everything that you read, that you would get the impression that there's been some shift, or that he wears all sorts of masks.

I'm glad for you that you own all those Apple products, and know how they work (so the rest of us have something to aspire to). Yet you seem categorically frustrated with Apple. I don't really understand what your (nebulous) point there was.

-Written on my iPhone from a remote part of one the Gulf Islands where reception is nearly nonexistent, regardless of phone type or carrier.

I said Windows 7 was NOT inferior, and it's not. Both OSes have their strengths and their weaknesses, but OSX has some pretty bad ones in terms of the architecture (talking about the kernel here). It's not a huge secret that on the same hardware, Windows 7 will feel much faster, that is, if you actually try it. I mean, that's anecdotal, but if you want to read up on the actual technical pros and cons of each OS, go ahead. I'm not about to get into a big engineering diatribe on here, because this board is generally a consumer rumors board.

If you don't know Steve Jobs history at the beginning of Apple and while at NeXT, then you don't understand what I meant. There are countless articles, books and documents about the way this guy manages, and what his personality is like. He is a bad dude. Period. He is not even really technically minded (plenty of evidence of this as well, for a quick blurb, just look for keynote outtakes on youtube. You can see how he responds to certain problems and, in some cases, really basic terminology. Then after that, go read about his actual engineering or programming know how) but likes to project this calm sage like persona on stage. Behind the scenes he's a crazy tyrant sociopath. That is not an exaggeration, and it's pretty sad that the guy hasn't even changed when he's basically alive because of a young kid's misfortune, and is therefore on borrowed time. I'm not talking about reading newspaper articles or recent magazines. I am referring to his 30 year history, and how some people lionize him in the media, but might now be waking up to the reality. The public persona is VERY different from the reality. Again, something that can't be explained on a message board when you're talking years and years of data and experience.

Yes, I am frustrated with Apple. They could be doing far better than they are in terms of really bettering our industry. They are content to sell iToys and make things look rosier than they are for themselves. If I were an investor, I would cash out now. I could be TOTALLY wrong of course, but I just think they have peaked and can't sustain their arrogance and business model for another 5 years and stay at their current level. Of course, I think that would all change if they just did a few things differently, but we will see who ends up right and wrong I suppose. I really do like the company and the desktop OS for the most part, but it's in danger of getting smoked barring a massive update soon that shores up some deficiencies, adds a few new features, and squashes some bugs. I'm talking in the next 2-3 years.

You know, when I refer to knowing how "things work" I am not talking about hitting Command-Q to close an app. I'm an engineer. I know a decent amount about these things, and see them from a different perspective than a consumer or a proud "shareholder". It doesn't mean I'm right. I could be totally wrong. But from where I am sitting, Apple is in a fight it cannot win long term. I can't think of too many vertically integrated solutions that ever win really. It is impossible to do EVERYTHING yourself and successfully compete with the world. That is what Apple is trying to do, and it's just getting more draconian, and offering less value as each year passes. I'm not trying to sound like I'm above anyone or anything, but it is possible to be a fan and really see the negatives in the company. It's because I'm a fan that I talk about these things and hope they fix them. Definitely nothing baseless about my comments, and they come from years and years of experience, and a desire to see things improve. But again, you can't disseminate years of experience in little posts on a forum. Even this way too long post has practically no real information in it. That kind of a discussion simply takes more time than is possible on a message board.

Anyway, glad your iPhone works where you're at. I have the 4 and I haven't had a problem with dropping calls, though the sound quality seems really wanting this time around for some reason.

 

[chatin]

All wadded up

Paper took a bow at the launch event but may have been the leak on "long standing bug" and "I told ya so". Jobs dispatched a Twit cleaner to plug leaks.

 

[Karvel]

I said Windows 7 was NOT inferior, and it's not. Both OSes have their strengths and their weaknesses, but OSX has some pretty bad ones in terms of the architecture (talking about the kernel here). It's not a huge secret that on the same hardware, Windows 7 will feel much faster, that is, if you actually try it. I mean, that's anecdotal, but if you want to read up on the actual technical pros and cons of each OS, go ahead. I'm not about to get into a big engineering diatribe on here, because this board is generally a consumer rumors board.

If you don't know Steve Jobs history at the beginning of Apple and while at NeXT, then you don't understand what I meant. There are countless articles, books and documents about the way this guy manages, and what his personality is like. He is a bad dude. Period. He is not even really technically minded (plenty of evidence of this as well, for a quick blurb, just look for keynote outtakes on youtube. You can see how he responds to certain problems and, in some cases, really basic terminology. Then after that, go read about his actual engineering or programming know how) but likes to project this calm sage like persona on stage. Behind the scenes he's a crazy tyrant sociopath. That is not an exaggeration, and it's pretty sad that the guy hasn't even changed when he's basically alive because of a young kid's misfortune, and is therefore on borrowed time. I'm not talking about reading newspaper articles or recent magazines. I am referring to his 30 year history, and how some people lionize him in the media, but might now be waking up to the reality. The public persona is VERY different from the reality. Again, something that can't be explained on a message board when you're talking years and years of data and experience.

Yes, I am frustrated with Apple. They could be doing far better than they are in terms of really bettering our industry. They are content to sell iToys and make things look rosier than they are for themselves. If I were an investor, I would cash out now. I could be TOTALLY wrong of course, but I just think they have peaked and can't sustain their arrogance and business model for another 5 years and stay at their current level. Of course, I think that would all change if they just did a few things differently, but we will see who ends up right and wrong I suppose. I really do like the company and the desktop OS for the most part, but it's in danger of getting smoked barring a massive update soon that shores up some deficiencies, adds a few new features, and squashes some bugs. I'm talking in the next 2-3 years.

You know, when I refer to knowing how "things work" I am not talking about hitting Command-Q to close an app. I'm an engineer. I know a decent amount about these things, and see them from a different perspective than a consumer or a proud "shareholder". It doesn't mean I'm right. I could be totally wrong. But from where I am sitting, Apple is in a fight it cannot win long term. I can't think of too many vertically integrated solutions that ever win really. It is impossible to do EVERYTHING yourself and successfully compete with the world. That is what Apple is trying to do, and it's just getting more draconian, and offering less value as each year passes. I'm not trying to sound like I'm above anyone or anything, but it is possible to be a fan and really see the negatives in the company. It's because I'm a fan that I talk about these things and hope they fix them. Definitely nothing baseless about my comments, and they come from years and years of experience, and a desire to see things improve. But again, you can't disseminate years of experience in little posts on a forum. Even this way too long post has practically no real information in it. That kind of a discussion simply takes more time than is possible on a message board.

Anyway, glad your iPhone works where you're at. I have the 4 and I haven't had a problem with dropping calls, though the sound quality seems really wanting this time around for some reason.

Probably the most interesting reply in this thread! If you can put it simply for n00bs - what is 'wrong' with the OSX architecture? And what would you like Apple to do differently?