iPhone OS 4.0 - overall feeling?

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

which part are you confused about? i used pretty simple wording. do i need to rephrase something for you?

I just don't know what you're talking about. I was defending the iphones multitasking and you make this huge list about how iPhones are good in general.

Also, I'd want YouTube to be in the background for music. Comes in handy if someone doesn't have a song that you want them to hear at a party.

 

[matttye]

So what can you not do on an iPhone running 4.0 that I can do on my nexus one? I don't see anything. I can't play a YouTube video in the background on my n1 like I can on my computer...

Read my reply to nuckinfutz.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

Read my reply to nuckinfutz.

I do like the widgets. I don't use them as extensively as you do but they're nice. For me, however, they're not enough to keep me on android. I can't wait to get back to the polish of the iPhone. I hate my nexus one; there are so many little things that just bug the hell out of me.

In your case, it seems like the iphones multitasking doesn't do everything you want. For us in the US though, we all have unlimited data. Besides your one example, few people are able to articulate exactly how the iPhones multitasking is limited.

 

[The General]

I just don't know what you're talking about. I was defending the iphones multitasking and you make this huge list about how iPhones are good in general.

Also, I'd want YouTube to be in the background for music. Comes in handy if someone doesn't have a song that you want them to hear at a party.

ah, i read that has "what can you do on an iphone that i cant do on my nexus one"

one side effect of being illiterate

 

[shandyman]

My phone has more than adequate battery life Once again, you're judging based on things that you've read rather than actual experience.

"true" is perhaps not the right word - "full" would be more appropriate. Yes, the iPhone can run background tasks, but it is severely limited in what background tasks can actually run.

I have an app on my HTC Desire that puts a notification in my notifications bar that tells me how much data I have used for the month. Very useful as I don't have an unlimited plan This app sits in the background and measures all data sent to/from my phone. That would not be possible on the iPhone because of its limited APIs.

Similar things, like monitoring how many minutes you use on the phone, or how SMS messages you send/receive, are NOT possible on the iPhone but perfectly possible on Android.

If you're "a 30, 40, 50 something with a beyond FT job" then I would think you'd value your time. Widgets save time. FACT. They're not gimmicky - they stop you from having to go through screens and make information available at a glance. If I want to turn WiFi off when I'm not in range of a hotspot, I just hit my WiFi toggle. I don't have to go settings > networks > wifi > on/off. You could put a calendar on your homescreen that lists your childrens' upcoming medical appointments. I use the trains a lot when I travel down south, and I can put a widget on my home screen that shows all departures from my station. Widgets are useful and save time.

iPhone OS4 is a sign that it's finally starting to catch up with Android but there's still a way to go yet

you shouldn't assume, cos you'll look daft, as i have actually had a couple of android based phones and the battery usage has been rubbish compared to the iphone.

the fact that the iphone's multitasking is limited to a certain amount of API's doesn't necessarily mean its a bad thing, until you see it n action, you can't say its a disadvantage, i doubt many apps, if they're done right, would need to use a ton of API's to function in the background.

apple take their time to make sure the features are done right, that they work and are efficient. look at copy & paste.

as for minutes and texts used, as i am on o2 in the UK and there's an app that does exactly that.......... if i wanna see how much data i've used, i just go into settings, simple as.

i would agree that i would like to enable wifi and disable it easier.

 

[matttye]

I do like the widgets. I don't use them as extensively as you do but they're nice. For me, however, they're not enough to keep me on android. I can't wait to get back to the polish of the iPhone. I hate my nexus one; there are so many little things that just bug the hell out of me.

Well I have a Desire which runs HTC Sense over Android, and the HTC widgets are sexy

The iPhone has better integration with iTunes and stuff - but I prefer the openness of Android. Just copy/paste my songs/images directly onto it. I can bluetooth my files to my friends if I want. Install apps from outside of the Market by using a direct link. View flash websites if I want to. Etc etc.

 

[nuckinfutz]

My phone has more than adequate battery life Once again, you're judging based on things that you've read rather than actual experience.



"true" is perhaps not the right word - "full" would be more appropriate. Yes, the iPhone can run background tasks, but it is severely limited in what background tasks can actually run.

I have an app on my HTC Desire that puts a notification in my notifications bar that tells me how much data I have used for the month. Very useful as I don't have an unlimited plan This app sits in the background and measures all data sent to/from my phone. That would not be possible on the iPhone because of its limited APIs.

Similar things, like monitoring how many minutes you use on the phone, or how SMS messages you send/receive, are NOT possible on the iPhone but perfectly possible on Android.

If you're "a 30, 40, 50 something with a beyond FT job" then I would think you'd value your time. Widgets save time. FACT. They're not gimmicky - they stop you from having to go through screens and make information available at a glance. If I want to turn WiFi off when I'm not in range of a hotspot, I just hit my WiFi toggle. I don't have to go settings > networks > wifi > on/off. You could put a calendar on your homescreen that lists your childrens' upcoming medical appointments. I use the trains a lot when I travel down south, and I can put a widget on my home screen that shows all departures from my station. Widgets are useful and save time.

iPhone OS4 is a sign that it's finally starting to catch up with Android but there's still a way to go yet

Full doesn't work either. The definition is clear. Multitasking is the ability to run two applications or services or tasks simultaneously. The iPhone has always had multitasking but it was limited to Apple's apps. With the iPhone OS 4 third party developers now get to support it. There's a reason why we call Dictionary, Thesaurus etc Reference material. It's to prevent people from making up their own definitions of things.

You keep telling us we're limited. I have "Consume" which an app from Bjango that monitors my usage. There may not be a widget or anything that gives me a realtime status of my usage but that's fine with me because I really only need an alert when i'm coming close to exceeding my plan in a given area.

No you are incorrect. They are very much possible on the iPhone which is why there are apps that do such things. The whole purpose of notifications is to keep an app "out of site out of mind" until you need to utilize that apps services. Widgets are handy for some people and an annoyance to others so I will agree with you that it's certainly a preference thing that could be argued until the cows come home. If the ideology of Android appeals to you then by all means choose them as your platform but Apple is not behind in any way because they refuse to have a bunch of blinking, flashing widgets strewn all over.

If you look at Apple's recent acquisition of Siri you see where they want to go. The ability to pick up your phone and simply ask it what you want and have the information delivered. They do not want their users to have to rely on a bunch of apps floating around to get an understanding about their day. These are ideological differences between the platforms.

 

[shandyman]

Also, I'd want YouTube to be in the background for music. Comes in handy if someone doesn't have a song that you want them to hear at a party.

well if i wanna play a song from youtube to someone, i just go into the youtube app, why does it need to be in the background? thats just not making sense....

The iPhone has better integration with iTunes and stuff - but I prefer the openness of Android. Just copy/paste my songs/images directly onto it. I can bluetooth my files to my friends if I want. Install apps from outside of the Market by using a direct link. View flash websites if I want to. Etc etc.

itunes automatically syncs and updates my music to add all my new music and images when i plug into my pc, so dunno what you mean there. i can send pics and contacts to other iphone users just using an app called bump, its good enough. the app store on the phone is quick and easy enough, links on pages open it up to install simple enough. flash is rubbish on touchscreen phones as alot of stuff in flash uses mouseover and also its buggy, slow and power hungry, etc etc

 

[ZenoVT]

My phone has more than adequate battery life Once again, you're judging based on things that you've read rather than actual experience.



"true" is perhaps not the right word - "full" would be more appropriate. Yes, the iPhone can run background tasks, but it is severely limited in what background tasks can actually run.

I have an app on my HTC Desire that puts a notification in my notifications bar that tells me how much data I have used for the month. Very useful as I don't have an unlimited plan This app sits in the background and measures all data sent to/from my phone. That would not be possible on the iPhone because of its limited APIs.

Similar things, like monitoring how many minutes you use on the phone, or how SMS messages you send/receive, are NOT possible on the iPhone but perfectly possible on Android.

If you're "a 30, 40, 50 something with a beyond FT job" then I would think you'd value your time. Widgets save time. FACT. They're not gimmicky - they stop you from having to go through screens and make information available at a glance. If I want to turn WiFi off when I'm not in range of a hotspot, I just hit my WiFi toggle. I don't have to go settings > networks > wifi > on/off. You could put a calendar on your homescreen that lists your childrens' upcoming medical appointments. I use the trains a lot when I travel down south, and I can put a widget on my home screen that shows all departures from my station. Widgets are useful and save time.

iPhone OS4 is a sign that it's finally starting to catch up with Android but there's still a way to go yet

The iPhone does not even need to waste battery power running a background app 24/7 to measure minutes used or data used on the phone. I just need to go to the AT&T app and it shows me all the info I need, at any giving moment. Can your phone delegate tasks outside the processes of the phone itself =D.

 

[ajohnson253]

I really like reading this thread. Everyone opinions & facts are very informatinal on what a lot of iPhone users want to know. Thanks

 

[matttye]

you shouldn't assume, cos you'll look daft, as i have actually had a couple of android based phones and the battery usage has been rubbish compared to the iphone.

the fact that the iphone's multitasking is limited to a certain amount of API's doesn't necessarily mean its a bad thing, until you see it n action, you can't say its a disadvantage, i doubt many apps, if they're done right, would need to use a ton of API's to function in the background.

apple take their time to make sure the features are done right, that they work and are efficient. look at copy & paste.

as for minutes and texts used, as i am on o2 in the UK and there's an app that does exactly that.......... if i wanna see how much data i've used, i just go into settings, simple as.

i would agree that i would like to enable wifi and disable it easier.

If the iPhone's multitasking is not as functional as Android's then I can say it's a disadvantage whether I've seen it in action or not. The fact of the matter is there is more that can be done in the background on Android. You're not limited to 7 hand-picked APIs that Apple has decided are the only ones you'll need.

The O2 app isn't realtime so it's not quite the same thing

Full doesn't work either. The definition is clear. Multitasking is the ability to run two applications or services or tasks simultaneously. The iPhone has always had multitasking but it was limited to Apple's apps. With the iPhone OS 4 third party developers now get to support it. There's a reason why we call Dictionary, Thesaurus etc Reference material. It's to prevent people from making up their own definitions of things.

You keep telling us we're limited. I have "Consume" which an app from Bjango that monitors my usage. There may not be a widget or anything that gives me a realtime status of my usage but that's fine with me because I really only need an alert when i'm coming close to exceeding my plan in a given area.

No you are incorrect. They are very much possible on the iPhone which is why there are apps that do such things. The whole purpose of notifications is to keep an app "out of site out of mind" until you need to utilize that apps services. Widgets are handy for some people and an annoyance to others so I will agree with you that it's certainly a preference thing that could be argued until the cows come home. If the ideology of Android appeals to you then by all means choose them as your platform but Apple is not behind in any way because they refuse to have a bunch of blinking, flashing widgets strewn all over.

If you look at Apple's recent acquisition of Siri you see where they want to go. The ability to pick up your phone and simply ask it what you want and have the information delivered. They do not want their users to have to rely on a bunch of apps floating around to get an understanding about their day. These are ideological differences between the platforms.

Full works just fine if you're not being pedantic. You know what I mean - there's no need to start pulling dictionaries out.

I'm sure Bjango is fine with you, but that doesn't change the fact that you couldn't have an app that shows your realtime usage even if you wanted to because it's a limitation of the phone.

If I'm incorrect, name an app that monitors phone/SMS usage without relying on call/SMS logs (since logs can be erased and it wouldn't be accurate). Also cannot use the carrier's website, as these are not completely up to date.

Apple are behind for not giving their customers the choice to run widgets if they want to. They don't have to install them by default, but it would be nice to have the choice. Just as it would be nice for people to be able to install Flash.

There are other things that can run in the background that cannot on the iPhone. For example, there's an app for Android that bypasses having to enter a password when you wake the phone from sleep even if it's required by your Exchange Server. There's an app that lets you automatically set a scene and silent mode on/off depending on the time of day (so you could have the phone automatically enter silent mode at work and put the volume back on when you leave). These are just examples though; there are a ton of possibilities.

 

[shandyman]

If the iPhone's multitasking is not as functional as Android's then I can say it's a disadvantage whether I've seen it in action or not. The fact of the matter is there is more that can be done in the background on Android. You're not limited to 7 hand-picked APIs that Apple has decided are the only ones you'll need.

The O2 app isn't realtime so it's not quite the same thing

like i said, if the app is made right, then it shouldn't need more than 7 API's, plus the API's aren't handpicked by apple, they're 7 from all the API's available... and if the app is made right, then you wouldn't notice that its only limited to 7 API's, ergo it would do all it needs to, compared to the android counterpart...

the O2 one is in real time, i've just tested it myself...

 

[matttye]

itunes automatically syncs and updates my music to add all my new music and images when i plug into my pc, so dunno what you mean there. i can send pics and contacts to other iphone users just using an app called bump, its good enough. the app store on the phone is quick and easy enough, links on pages open it up to install simple enough. flash is rubbish on touchscreen phones as alot of stuff in flash uses mouseover and also its buggy, slow and power hungry, etc etc

That's what I said - the iPhone has decent integration with iTunes. Android is more open than the iPhone - you can just copy and paste your data directly onto an Android phone, there's no need to have specific software to sync it with. Obviously it depends whether you prefer the closed but well implemented system, or the perhaps messy, but more open choice.

I take it Bump doesn't let you send songs?

Flash Lite runs fine on my Desire and most other phones running a Snapdragon processor. I can't comment on full Flash until it's released (hopefully in June)

The iPhone does not even need to waste battery power running a background app 24/7 to measure minutes used or data used on the phone. I just need to go to the AT&T app and it shows me all the info I need, at any giving moment. Can your phone delegate tasks outside the processes of the phone itself =D.

Is the AT&T completely up to date?

I'm on Orange and the Orange website is sometimes up to 48 hours out of date, so using an Orange app would not be the same.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

well if i wanna play a song from youtube to someone, i just go into the youtube app, why does it need to be in the background? thats just not making sense....

The phone can't be used if something is playing in YouTube. That means I can't text or queue up the next song. Suffice to say, I'm not making all this up.

 

[cjmillsnun]

There are other things that can run in the background that cannot on the iPhone. For example, there's an app for Android that bypasses having to enter a password when you wake the phone from sleep even if it's required by your Exchange Server. There's an app that lets you automatically set a scene and silent mode on/off depending on the time of day (so you could have the phone automatically enter silent mode at work and put the volume back on when you leave). These are just examples though; there are a ton of possibilities.

Why is that a good thing? That is something that can and will make corporate customers not want to use Android, or lock it down so that the user cannot install custom apps.

I agree that iPhones have some limitations that Android certainly doesn't have. However, those limitations stop things like fake bank apps going through that harvest people's account details and send them to someone. http://www.firsttechcu.com/home/security/fraud/security_fraud.html

Both systems have their ups and downs, and I will be getting a Desire as a second phone, whilst maintaining my iPhone as my primary.

 

[matttye]

like i said, if the app is made right, then it shouldn't need more than 7 API's, plus the API's aren't handpicked by apple, they're 7 from all the API's available... and if the app is made right, then you wouldn't notice that its only limited to 7 API's, ergo it would do all it needs to, compared to the android counterpart...

Using my example, which of the seven APIs would allow a background app to turn your phone into silent mode at a specific time of day? There's no way that app could be "made right" because the API for it doesn't exist.

the O2 one is in real time, i've just tested it myself...

It must have changed since I had an iPhone then. My apologies

Still - that was just an example. The app could count how many smilies I use in my text messages if that's what I wanted it to do. My point is Android isn't limited to a few specific background functions like the iPhone.

 

[matttye]

Why is that a good thing? That is something that can and will make corporate customers not want to use Android, or lock it down so that the user cannot install custom apps.

I agree that iPhones have some limitations that Android certainly doesn't have. However, those limitations stop things like fake bank apps going through that harvest people's account details and send them to someone. http://www.firsttechcu.com/home/security/fraud/security_fraud.html

Both systems have their ups and downs, and I will be getting a Desire as a second phone, whilst maintaining my iPhone as my primary.

It's not a good thing, I was just using that to illustrate the flexibility of the Android system.

It is true that Android phones will be more susceptible to viruses and spyware, etc, but it's up to the user to implement common sense. If more than 50,000 users have downloaded an app and it gets 5 stars for example, then it's likely to be trustworthy. Google can and do remove malicious apps from the Market, so if people report an app as bad it will be removed.

 

[TheAppleGeek]

How exactly is multitasking confusing?

I am using beta 2 (yes, I am a dev) and the process is fairly straight forward (although none of the apps can take advantage of the services yet).

I would like to know that, too. It's just a simple click of the Home button twice.

 

[shandyman]

That's what I said - the iPhone has decent integration with iTunes. Android is more open than the iPhone - you can just copy and paste your data directly onto an Android phone, there's no need to have specific software to sync it with. Obviously it depends whether you prefer the closed but well implemented system, or the perhaps messy, but more open choice.

I take it Bump doesn't let you send songs?

Flash Lite runs fine on my Desire and most other phones running a Snapdragon processor. I can't comment on full Flash until it's released (hopefully in June)

well i have a ton of songs for dj-ing, its much easier for itunes to sync up any additional songs i get on my pc rather than having to go thru my mp3 folders to find the new stuff and add them manually, since anyone that has an iphone will have itunes, its already there.

no bump doesn't do songs, but then all my music is purchased so even if i could send, they can't listen as its protected.

again, as i said, flash uses mouseover functions alot, so touchscreens don't really get the full usage of flash anyway....

The phone can't be used if something is playing in YouTube. That means I can't text or queue up the next song. Suffice to say, I'm not making all this up.

well i was going by your example of playing a song to a friend from youtube, if i was doing that would you also really be texting? i think you're just stretching out a poor example.

 

[angevil]

matttye with his posts is just making me more happy with my iPhone..I would never get a phone with Android, after reading about it Thanks for the insight!

 

[matttye]

well i have a ton of songs for dj-ing, its much easier for itunes to sync up any additional songs i get on my pc rather than having to go thru my mp3 folders to find the new stuff and add them manually, since anyone that has an iphone will have itunes, its already there.

no bump doesn't do songs, but then all my music is purchased so even if i could send, they can't listen as its protected.

again, as i said, flash uses mouseover functions alot, so touchscreens don't really get the full usage of flash anyway.....

There are still sync solutions for Android, they're just not created and maintained by Google. Apparently Windows Media Player can easily sync with Android phones. That's what I mean, it's not as tightly integrated as the iPhone, but all of these things are still possible.

Fair play. You obviously wouldn't have any use for that then. It's not limited to just songs though, you can send anything by bluetooth. Videos, music, photos, vcards, vcalendars, documents, etc.

Adobe said that Flash supports touchscreens and that a mouseover is classed as when you push a button, but then move your finger away from the button before taking your finger off of the touchscreen. Granted that's a bit awkward, but at least it's supported.

 

[shandyman]

Using my example, which of the seven APIs would allow a background app to turn your phone into silent mode at a specific time of day? There's no way that app could be "made right" because the API for it doesn't exist.

It must have changed since I had an iPhone then. My apologies

Still - that was just an example. The app could count how many smilies I use in my text messages if that's what I wanted it to do. My point is Android isn't limited to a few specific background functions like the iPhone.

hang on, you're now changing the whole thing over API's from being about similar apps running on iphone and android to specfic things you know are not done on an iphone?? i was saying that a messenger app, made right, can run in multitasking as seamlessly on the iphone as it wouldn't need to use as many API's, infact better as using less power, than the android equivalent.

you're just twisting and sidetracking now talking about non-existant API's, when that wasn't the debate we were having.

 

[shandyman]

Fair play. You obviously wouldn't have any use for that then. It's not limited to just songs though, you can send anything by bluetooth. Videos, music, photos, vcards, vcalendars, documents, etc.

Adobe said that Flash supports touchscreens and that a mouseover is classed as when you push a button, but then move your finger away from the button before taking your finger off of the touchscreen. Granted that's a bit awkward, but at least it's supported.

with bump i can do videos, photos, vcards, etc, i think they're making it so even attachments can be done along with things from idisk, but thats ahead somewhere.

as you said, its awkward, thats part of the key. plus considering android is all about open source, flash is proprietory technology, also its going to be outdated soon as HTML5 is on the rise.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

well i was going by your example of playing a song to a friend from youtube, if i was doing that would you also really be texting? i think you're just stretching out a poor example.

And I'm pretty sure you're just not appreciating the fact that some people use their devices differently. You want the play-by-play for my example so it makes sense?

-------

[Setting] Relaxing in an apartment before going out to a party having a delicious drink. My friend's iPhone or my N1 plugged into speakers playing music.

Me: Oh, do you have the new song by _____? Great song
Friend: No, I don't have it.
Me: Ah, lemme just pull it up on YouTube quickly.

Song starts playing.

While the song is playing we can't send/receive texts to coordinate who we're going to meet up with and where. Also, we can't look through the music library on whichever phone we're using to choose the next song.

------

Whether or not this situation applies to how you use your phone, it affects me. It was a one line complaint in an earlier post. Your accusation of me stretching out a "bad example" is not only cynical, it's flat out dense. The only reason this "conversation" has gone on for so long is because you keep telling me how stupid my complaint is, even though it is legitimate.

Good enough? Can we get back to the topic of this thread?

 

[shandyman]

And I'm pretty sure you're just not appreciating the fact that some people use their devices differently. You want the play-by-play for my example so it makes sense?

-------

[Setting] Relaxing in an apartment before going out to a party having a delicious drink. My friend's iPhone or my N1 plugged into speakers playing music

Me: Oh, do you have the new song by _____? Great song
Friend: No, I don't have it.
Me: Ah, lemme just pull it up on YouTube quickly.

Song starts playing.

While the song is playing we can't send/receive texts to coordinate who we're going to meet up with and where. Also, we can't look through the music library on whichever phone we're using to choose the next song.

------

Whether or not this situation applies to how you use your phone, it affects me. It was a one line complaint in an earlier post. Your accusation of me stretching out a "bad example" is not only cynical, it's flat out dense. The only reason this "conversation" has gone on for so long is because you keep telling me how stupid my complaint is, even though it is legitimate.

Good enough? Can we get back to the topic of this thread?

ok it may be an issue to you, personally i think its a poor example as also me and most people i know play music out of the pc/laptop, or if i was talkin about a song, it would prob be one i had on my iphone already and the ipod on it does exactly what you are saying, with OS4, then there's a good chance the youtube app would do the same, so wouldn't that render your complaint invalid.