iPhone OS 4.0 - overall feeling?

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

ok it may be an issue to you, personally i think its a poor example

It's not a poor example. It's a specific example of something that happens to me.

as also me and most people i know play music out of the pc/laptop

Congrats.

or if i was talkin about a song, it would prob be on i had on my iphone already and the ipod on it does exactly what you are saying, with OS4, then there's a good chance the youtube app would do the same, so wouldn't that render your complaint invalid.

Use punctuation. I'm no grammar nazi, but I have no idea what you're saying. My point, which has been lost in all of your nonsense, is that for all the people saying Android has full multi-tasking, I can't do something on my Nexus One that I can do on my computer. It holds true for both the "limited-multitasking" iPhone and with the supposed "full-multitasking" android phone.

 

[shandyman]

Use punctuation. I'm no grammar nazi, but I have no idea what you're saying. My point, which has been lost in all of your nonsense, is that for all the people saying Android has full multi-tasking, I can't do something on my Nexus One that I can do on my computer. It holds true for both the "limited-multitasking" iPhone and with the supposed "full-multitasking" android phone.

i thought it was fairly clear. with OS4, i would assume the youtube app will run like the ipod app in that it can continue playing in the background like the ipod, so surely that would satisfy your complaint?

 

[jebbe]

My phone has more than adequate battery life Once again, you're judging based on things that you've read rather than actual experience.



"true" is perhaps not the right word - "full" would be more appropriate. Yes, the iPhone can run background tasks, but it is severely limited in what background tasks can actually run.

I have an app on my HTC Desire that puts a notification in my notifications bar that tells me how much data I have used for the month. Very useful as I don't have an unlimited plan This app sits in the background and measures all data sent to/from my phone. That would not be possible on the iPhone because of its limited APIs.

Similar things, like monitoring how many minutes you use on the phone, or how SMS messages you send/receive, are NOT possible on the iPhone but perfectly possible on Android.

If you're "a 30, 40, 50 something with a beyond FT job" then I would think you'd value your time. Widgets save time. FACT. They're not gimmicky - they stop you from having to go through screens and make information available at a glance. If I want to turn WiFi off when I'm not in range of a hotspot, I just hit my WiFi toggle. I don't have to go settings > networks > wifi > on/off. You could put a calendar on your homescreen that lists your childrens' upcoming medical appointments. I use the trains a lot when I travel down south, and I can put a widget on my home screen that shows all departures from my station. Widgets are useful and save time.

iPhone OS4 is a sign that it's finally starting to catch up with Android but there's still a way to go yet

I think people weren't listening to the Keynote at all. They never said it was limited to 7 tasks, they said that's the ones they were going to discuss at that time.

And really, based on what they did show, what else is there that you'd need running in the background?

 

[shandyman]

I think people weren't listening to the Keynote at all. They never said it was limited to 7 tasks, they said that's the ones they were going to discuss at that time.

And really, based on what they did show, what else is there that you'd need running in the background?

i think you're mixing things up, they said there were 100 new features, of which they were talking about 7 tentpole features.

then in multitasking, they were saying that apps will be limited to 7 API's in the background.

 

[nuckinfutz]

for all the people saying Android has full multi-tasking, I can't do something on my Nexus One that I can do on my computer. It holds true for both the "limited-multitasking" iPhone and with the supposed "full-multitasking" android phone.

Agreed. It really makes no sense to even attempt to differentiate full multitasking on a phone when there's not phone that I know of that even remotely compares to desktop OS in that regard.

Phone will be limited by resources for the foreseeable future. I'm actually thinking about using Skype more so i'm happy about VOIP in the background. I'm a light Pandora user but welcome the ability there as well.

Without comparable window management on a phone as compared to a phone we'll always be multitasking lite within a unitasking UI.

 

[matttye]

hang on, you're now changing the whole thing over API's from being about similar apps running on iphone and android to specfic things you know are not done on an iphone?? i was saying that a messenger app, made right, can run in multitasking as seamlessly on the iphone as it wouldn't need to use as many API's, infact better as using less power, than the android equivalent.

you're just twisting and sidetracking now talking about non-existant API's, when that wasn't the debate we were having.

Fine - with Android, a messenger app could play a different sound depending on the kind of message received. It could play one tone when somebody sends you a message, another if somebody tries to send you a file, another if somebody sends you a nudge, etc. With the iPhone all it would do is that beep, which is the same beep for new voicemails, alerts, new SMS notifications, etc. With android you could tell what kind of message you just got before the phone even leaves your pocket.

Also I'm not sure push is all that more efficient than actually staying connected to the network, to be honest. Both implementations would stay connected and await updates.

with bump i can do videos, photos, vcards, etc, i think they're making it so even attachments can be done along with things from idisk, but thats ahead somewhere.

as you said, its awkward, thats part of the key. plus considering android is all about open source, flash is proprietory technology, also its going to be outdated soon as HTML5 is on the rise.

HTML5 will not be used in the mainstream for at least a couple of years. I guess it's okay that people can't see Flash on the iPhone though, all they have to do is wait about five years until HTML5 takes over

 

[shandyman]

Agreed. It really makes no sense to even attempt to differentiate full multitasking on a phone when there's not phone that I know of that even remotely compares to desktop OS in that regard.

Phone will be limited by resources for the foreseeable future. I'm actually thinking about using Skype more so i'm happy about VOIP in the background. I'm a light Pandora user but welcome the ability there as well.

Without comparable window management on a phone as compared to a phone we'll always be multitasking lite within a unitasking UI.

i'm looking forward to Skype in the background, it looks quite integrated, first i've seen on a phone myself.

also hoping that last.fm and ootunes will run like pandora did on the keynote demonstration.

 

[nuckinfutz]

i think you're mixing things up, they said there were 100 new features, of which they were talking about 7 tentpole features.

then in multitasking, they were saying that apps will be limited to 7 API's in the background.

The most difficult question, for those confused with Android vs iPhone multitasking, is persuasively describing exactly what limitations the iPhone's 7 API have. All we want are scenarios where the API will not deliver what we want. The closest I've seen is SMS message retrieval and Twitter feeds in the background but then again Task Completion would likely suffice there.

I think Android users have gotten this mythical conception of multitasking in their heads and when pressed further for technical reasons why Android's methodology is superior to iPhones we find they quickly have depleted their actual knowledge of Android and multitasking in principal.

 

[shandyman]

Fine - with Android, a messenger app could play a different sound depending on the kind of message received. It could play one tone when somebody sends you a message, another if somebody tries to send you a file, another if somebody sends you a nudge, etc. With the iPhone all it would do is that beep, which is the same beep for new voicemails, alerts, new SMS notifications, etc.

Also I'm not sure push is all that more efficient than actually staying connected to the network, to be honest. Both implementations would stay connected and await updates.

HTML5 will not be used in the mainstream for at least a couple of years. I guess it's okay that people can't see Flash on the iPhone though, all they have to do is wait about five years until HTML5 takes over

actually at the moment, with beejive, i get different sounds for messages sent on there to texts and emails. also visual voicemail tones are different to sms ones and emails are they not?

push seems to work fine on beejive, i get messages instantly, as i've had got the noise on the phone the same time i've seen the message pop up on facebook chat on my computer...

HTML is already starting to come into use, YouTube are beta testing it, other sites aer too, iAds using HTML5 is only just gonna spur it into use quicker in my opinion. microsoft are pushing it on too with IE9.

 

[shandyman]

The most difficult question, for those confused with Android vs iPhone multitasking, is persuasively describing exactly what limitations the iPhone's 7 API have. All we want are scenarios where the API will not deliver what we want. The closest I've seen is SMS message retrieval and Twitter feeds in the background but then again Task Completion would likely suffice there.

I think Android users have gotten this mythical conception of multitasking in their heads and when pressed further for technical reasons why Android's methodology is superior to iPhones we find they quickly have depleted their actual knowledge of Android and multitasking in principal.

just to clarify, the 7 API's are not 7 specific for multitasking only, its 7 from all of the API's available, well thats what it appears from the keynote, if thats wrong, then can someone please link to source?

 

[ogdogg]

As someone actually using 4.0 let me tell you... It's awesome.

 

[matttye]

All we want are scenarios where the API will not deliver what we want. The closest I've seen is SMS message retrieval and Twitter feeds in the background but then again Task Completion would likely suffice there.

Automatically setting your phone's "profile" at certain times or locations - I can download apps on my Desire that will put my phone into silent mode during work hours, or when I enter a certain location (work).

The ability to notify at any point using custom sounds and alerts. You're not limited to just the standard tone like you are with the iPhone.

Task completion on steroids - you don't just have to complete the current task on Android, you can queue new tasks to begin after the existing task has ended. This means that file downloaders, for example, can run in the background and download all files silently until the queue is empty.

Intercept the phone unlock procedure. This can be used maliciously, but it could also be used to expand the security on your phone. You could have your phone send a text message after three failed passcode attempts, for example.

And many more...

 

[matttye]

actually at the moment, with beejive, i get different sounds for messages sent on there to texts and emails. also visual voicemail tones are different to sms ones and emails are they not?

push seems to work fine on beejive, i get messages instantly, as i've had got the noise on the phone the same time i've seen the message pop up on facebook chat on my computer...

HTML is already starting to come into use, YouTube are beta testing it, other sites aer too, iAds using HTML5 is only just gonna spur it into use quicker in my opinion. microsoft are pushing it on too with IE9.

Is that while beejive is running? I'm talking about when you get push notifications through... the push notifications use the default alert sound do they not? I don't think it's customisable.

By efficient I meant they will probably use the same amount of battery; with Android, you stay connected to the server and receive messages. With the iPhone; you stay connected to Apple's Push Notification server and receive messages. Seems like it's doing the same thing on both to me.

"starting to" come into use is your keyword there It's by no means widespread yet and won't be for several years to come.

 

[nuckinfutz]

The Mac OS has had location settings for years and I wonder why they haven't brought that over to the iPhone. Simple stuff like when my work day starts automatically put the phone on vibrate and login to the work wifi network.

Maybe it's in 4.0..maybe not.

The custom alert sounds have indeed been a complain i've read multiple times and it seems like an easy fix. I'll have to watch and see what Apple does with this.

Don't get me wrong I don't hate Android. I think it's the second best Mobile OS out there. It keeps Apple on their toes. But it is as shockingly unsophisticated (software updates, Firmware OS updates) in some areas as it is technically strong in others. I know fixes are coming for fragmentation and software updating but and iPhone user moving over to Android is going to be pretty shocked once they need to update apps and the phone OS itself. Clearly not in the same league as iPhone/iTunes combination.

 

[shandyman]

Is that while beejive is running? I'm talking about when you get push notifications through... the push notifications use the default alert sound do they not? I don't think it's customisable.

By efficient I meant they will probably use the same amount of battery; with Android, you stay connected to the server and receive messages. With the iPhone; you stay connected to Apple's Push Notification server and receive messages. Seems like it's doing the same thing on both to me.

"starting to" come into use is your keyword there It's by no means widespread yet and won't be for several years to come.

yup whilst its running and whilst its not running and just using push, mine uses the msn sounds, so the push comes up with the msn sound as well.

with the android, the whole app is running, with the iphone, at the mo it wouldn't use anything much as the push thing is fairly resource light, with multitasking in OS4, it would prob stick to just push and take advantage of the fast app switching part of it. the key factor in this whole debate in regards to multitasking comparison between the android and iphone is the resources used and the iphone will use less resources, therefore longer battery life.

it may not be widespread yet, but i don't think it will take as long as you think, especially with big names already starting to implement it....

 

[shandyman]

personally i don't get why you need the phone to automatically switch to silent when walking into work, all you have to do is flick the switch on the side. now it might be necessary on an android phone which doesnt have that simple solution, but on an iphone really? is it really that amount of effort?

 

[matttye]

The Mac OS has had location settings for years and I wonder why they haven't brought that over to the iPhone. Simple stuff like when my work day starts automatically put the phone on vibrate and login to the work wifi network.

Maybe it's in 4.0..maybe not.

The custom alert sounds have indeed been a complain i've read multiple times and it seems like an easy fix. I'll have to watch and see what Apple does with this.

Don't get me wrong I don't hate Android. I think it's the second best Mobile OS out there. It keeps Apple on their toes. But it is as shockingly unsophisticated (software updates, Firmware OS updates) in some areas as it is technically strong in others. I know fixes are coming for fragmentation and software updating but and iPhone user moving over to Android is going to be pretty shocked once they need to update apps and the phone OS itself. Clearly not in the same league as iPhone/iTunes combination.

Software updates and firmware updates on android can be done over the air from the phone itself

I think you've hit the nail on the head there... I believe that the iPhone is "neater" and integrates everything really well, but that Android has more features.. it's just a little more complicated. With Sense UI, my phone is not really much more difficult to use than the iPhone though

yup whilst its running and whilst its not running and just using push, mine uses the msn sounds, so the push comes up with the msn sound as well.

with the android, the whole app is running, with the iphone, at the mo it wouldn't use anything much as the push thing is fairly resource light, with multitasking in OS4, it would prob stick to just push and take advantage of the fast app switching part of it. the key factor in this whole debate in regards to multitasking comparison between the android and iphone is the resources used and the iphone will use less resources, therefore longer battery life.

it may not be widespread yet, but i don't think it will take as long as you think, especially with big names already starting to implement it....

Weird - not being able to change the push notification sounds is a common complaint

Not true. That's a common misconception about Android. Read this. As you will see, a background task is called a "process" whereas an actual program that you see on the screen is an "application"

The big named are bound to implement it first. The protocol is still being reviewed and subject to change, it's not likely people will begin to properly develop for it until it's set in stone and actually supported by most browsers. It wouldn't be cost effective for a small company to start using HTML5 yet.

personally i don't get why you need the phone to automatically switch to silent when walking into work, all you have to do is flick the switch on the side. now it might be necessary on an android phone which doesnt have that simple solution, but on an iphone really? is it really that amount of effort?

It doesn't just have to be the silent switch though.. I could have it set a scene for me.

And you're trying to shoot down all of my individual examples when all I'm showing you is that there are plenty of things not covered by Apple's 7 APIs.

 

[shandyman]

Software updates and firmware updates on android can be done over the air from the phone itself

Weird - not being able to change the push notification sounds is a common complaint

Not true. That's a common misconception about Android. Read this. As you will see, a background task is called a "process" whereas an actual program that you see on the screen is an "application"

The big named are bound to implement it first. The protocol is still being reviewed and subject to change, it's not likely people will begin to properly develop for it until it's set in stone and actually supported by most browsers. It wouldn't be cost effective for a small company to start using HTML5 yet.

It doesn't just have to be the silent switch though.. I could have it set a scene for me.

And you're trying to shoot down all of my individual examples when all I'm showing you is that there are plenty of things not covered by Apple's 7 APIs.

i thinks the push notification thing must be down to the developers, facebook makes its own sound, beejive uses whatever sounds you've chosen for the app.

HTML5 is in use at the mo, firefox and safari currently supports it, IE9 will support it, there are some aspects still in development and that, but as i said, its partially in use already. my point is that apple is bypassing flash as its going to be outdated and they're concentrating on being ahead of the game, fully supporting HTML5

ok i was just going on your silent example, personally i don't need various profiles, others may do, fair dos.

 

[speciesguy]

Hi sorry to posts this way, "new" Office doc compat. challenge

Hello everyone:

I'm new and didn't know how to post a new thread. I searched for
twenty minutes and didn't see it.

Could someone when they get a minute assist please. I know that
I'm not the only one that has challenges opening microsoft office
documents. I have a a ton of work on older 93 microsoftword plat-
form. I bought a g5 with office 2008 on it.

I'm getting a bit nervous cause I'm not able to open a book I did on
a flash drive. Should I call Apple or Mircrosoft to solve this? Sure
appreciate the help.

I've tried:
doing the save as a 97 to 2003 .doc
safe as an RTF

 

[Switchview]

I also tested OS 4. Beta 1 works well in my 3G. I JB my iPhone and enabled wallpapers/multitasking. Both options doesn't slows down my device. Sometimes when you swipe it had some moment of sluggish but hey it is a beta so here and there a little tweak and it works flowless.

I open some default applications and even then it still working fine. (MS)

This is my wishlist:

* Better notifications for SMS/Mail/missed calls and apps etc.
* Shortcuts to enable WiFI/BT (Widgets)
* A quicker way to see the calendar (ex. lockinfo)
* Tasks (ToDO)

 

[Theappmachine]

My experience with the OS 4 is quite good.

The Beta 1 was really fast, definitely faster than OS 3. What's new in the os is amazing, from small to big improvements.

Beta 2 is a nightmare, but I suppose is just 'cos is a beta. Is really slow and unstable.

By the way I'm pretty sure that the final release will be a blast in features and performances!

 

[RichL]

As of Beta 2 I'm not impressed with the updates. If there are more to come I welcome them with open arms.

Seriously. Look at these:
* Multitasking
* Folder management for apps
* Social gaming
* iBooks support for iPhone
* Enhanced email
* Enterprise uses and security
* Apple's own in-app advertising model (iAd)

Multitasking, folders and the mail updates are the only items of slight interest. The rest I can do without.

Multitasking will be fantastic for music in the background but other than that it's useless to me.

 

[jjprusk]

Incorrect multitasking defn

mattye let's analyze your "true multitasking" statement because you'll quickly see that it makes no sense.

First the definition (within a computing context but it generally applies elsewhere)

Multitasking

the ability of a computer to operate several programs at the same time


So if the iPhone OS 4 can run Pandora, or Skype, or a GPS, or gather location info or complete a download in the background while you compute on a separate app in the foreground by definition how can it be "false"?

Now you state that Android apps can "do whatever they want" well what exactly is that? Applications are all going to be tasked based so my question is "what tasks do I need to accomplish in the background are not supported by the iPhone OS 4?"

Many of you "true multitasking" people haven't really thought about the logistics of your statement and thus you end up cannot fully explain what multitasking means if there truly is a "true" vs "false" version.

There are many apps that coalesce multiple social networking sites for instance Sociable will gather Facebook, Twitter, Flickr, Digg, Reddit and Instaper all in one app.

The widgits are by and large gimmicky which is why Apple doesn't get into them. If you're a young 20 something with not a whole lot of commitments and a bunch of social time then widgets are probably more important to you. If you're a 30, 40, 50 something with a beyond FT job, kids that have school and medical appointmens. Widgets are not cutting it.

To each his own. However with iPhone OS 4 no one can realistically argue that iPhone OS is not the equal to the Android and vice versa. The widgets and doing stuff from the home screen are window dressing.

If you look at wikipedia's definition, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_multitasking , it more accurately represents multitasking. People who don't understand computers often get multitasking and multiprocessing confused. In order to run multiple tasks concurrently, more than one processor is needed. If there's one processor, its running only one task at a time even though the user perceives different through fast task switching. The number of tasks that run simultaneously is directly related to the number of processors (or cores...).

 

[Switchview]

Does apple provide us the Beta 3 today/tomorrow ? What do you think.
It is almost 2 weeks ago when Beta 2 arrived.
Can't wait

 

[nuckinfutz]

If you look at wikipedia's definition, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_multitasking , it more accurately represents multitasking. People who don't understand computers often get multitasking and multiprocessing confused. In order to run multiple tasks concurrently, more than one processor is needed. If there's one processor, its running only one task at a time even though the user perceives different through fast task switching. The number of tasks that run simultaneously is directly related to the number of processors (or cores...).

Correcto. That's why I get a bit of a laugh when people start talking about "true multitasking" wrt to a phone. Since there are few if any multi core phones the reality is most phones are very fast unitaskers.