iPhone SE and the missing barometer

[I7guy]

How does this thread have so many responses? Are people really that upset about a barometer? It doesn't impact my usage at all.

I'm getting the SE for my wife and can tell you she wouldn't care one way or another. If one wants a barometer get the flagship. Debating this heavily about apples decisions is not going to change the outcome. At this price point this is apples policy.

If Apple included 3dt and barometer the phone would cost $600 instead of $399.

 

[lordofthereef]

How does this thread have so many responses? Are people really that upset about a barometer? It doesn't impact my usage at all.

You'll notice that it was already closed once. There's an extremely vocal minority that believe that what Apple has done here is, to put it mildly, unacceptable.

I've been following for a good bit now, and quit frankly, nothing has been said in the last half a dozen pages, at least, that hasn't already been said.l, which isnuktismtelynwhat lead to its first closure.

I'm still willing to bet that, outside of MR, you'd have a hard time finding a dozen people that even know the barometer is missing, unless of course you go to some barometeric pressure sensor fan group or weather tracking enthusiast forum or some such. This is just a non issue for (almost) everyone.

 

[iThat]

How does this thread have so many responses? Are people really that upset about a barometer? It doesn't impact my usage at all.

I don't think people are "upset" about it. More like upset about the fact apple does very little to communicate *upfront* (more than just a "-" line in a comparison chart) to customers that 3DTouch and the barometer are absent. If you think about it long and hard and weigh the benefits in the long run these two features are the biggest bridges that are missing which would have put the SE in a completely different category. You will hear words like flagship being thrown around as well as hyperbole. I implore you to read through the facts in the thread objectively before you make your purchase. I emphasize that now even more with iOS 10 right around the corner as well as the updates to homekit. And just to recap once again. (no "buzzwords" here)

The pressure sensor immediately ads support for:

• Location services refinements
  Which has a effect on:
  - GPS Lock time.
  - Battery Life. YES battery life, read through the posts about dopplershift and burn-in.
  - Location Accuracy especially at high speeds. Anything OVER 70mph has doppler potential.
  - Always avilable\on local POR / POI with great accuracy and works without network connection too.

• Altimeter support
  - Altimeter data
  - Incline support Hiking, biking etc.

• Weather models
  - Crowed sourcing pressure data
  - Improving existing weather model accuracy
  - Standalone local barometric pressure data. Also works without network connection.

• Medical applications
  - Local Pain management Point Of Reference ...Think like sinus pressure headaches, joint pain, etc..
  - Diagnostic tool
  Diagnostic tool also doesn't necessarily mean a local tool. The intelligent chip itself could also be utilized by 3rd party hardware if open enough.

Some have also suggested that apple might not be under the gun to help support any crowd-sourced component, while thats probably the case nothing stops 3rd party devs from picking up where apple leaves off.

So to sum it up, its more than just a tool to tell you when its going to rain or measure your marginal terrain incline as you move. Unlike other sensors which have obvious failure points, It pulls double duty.
Other than 3DTouch it's the biggest linchpin.

 

[AVN6293]

I don't think people are "upset" about it. More like upset about the fact apple does very little to communicate *upfront* (more than just a "-" line in a comparison chart) to customers that 3DTouch and the barometer are absent. If you think about it long and hard and weigh the benefits in the long run these two features are the biggest bridges that are missing which would have put the SE in a completely different category. You will hear words like flagship being thrown around as well as hyperbole. I implore you to read through the facts in the thread objectively before you make your purchase. I emphasize that now even more with iOS 10 right around the corner as well as the updates to homekit. And just to recap once again. (no "buzzwords" here)

The pressure sensor immediately ads support for:

• Location services refinements
  Which has a effect on:
  - GPS Lock time.
  - Battery Life. YES battery life, read through the posts about dopplershift and burn-in.
  - Location Accuracy especially at high speeds. Anything OVER 70mph has doppler potential.
  - Always avilable\on local POR / POI with great accuracy and works without network connection too.

• Altimeter support
  - Altimeter data
  - Incline support Hiking, biking etc.

• Weather models
  - Crowed sourcing pressure data
  - Improving existing weather model accuracy
  - Standalone local barometric pressure data. Also works without network connection.

• Medical applications
  - Local Pain management Point Of Reference ...Think like sinus pressure headaches, joint pain, etc..
  - Diagnostic tool
  Diagnostic tool also doesn't necessarily mean a local tool. The intelligent chip itself could also be utilized by 3rd party hardware if open enough.

Some have also suggested that apple might not be under the gun to help support any crowd-sourced component, while thats probably the case nothing stops 3rd party devs from picking up where apple leaves off.

So to sum it up, its more than just a tool to tell you when its going to rain or measure your marginal terrain incline as you move. Unlike other sensors which have obvious failure points, It pulls double duty.

Other than 3DTouch it's the biggest linchpin.

Well put. I still think the SE is a great device. Just not in line with what its fullest potential could be. Not worth the 400$ investment over the M8s or GS6

 

[I7guy]

Well put. I still think the SE is a great device. Just not in line with what its fullest potential could be. Not worth the 400$ investment over the M8s or GS6

Judging from some of the lack of inventory, seems like Apple customers disagree with this assessment.
[doublepost=1466305146][/doublepost]

I don't think people are "upset" about it. More like upset about the fact apple does very little to communicate *upfront* (more than just a "-" line in a comparison chart) to customers that 3DTouch and the barometer are absent. If you think about it long and hard and weigh the benefits in the long run these two features are the biggest bridges that are missing which would have put the SE in a completely different category. You will hear words like flagship being thrown around as well as hyperbole. I implore you to read through the facts in the thread objectively before you make your purchase. I emphasize that now even more with iOS 10 right around the corner as well as the updates to homekit. And just to recap once again. (no "buzzwords" here)

The pressure sensor immediately ads support for:

• Location services refinements
  Which has a effect on:
  - GPS Lock time.
  - Battery Life. YES battery life, read through the posts about dopplershift and burn-in.
  - Location Accuracy especially at high speeds. Anything OVER 70mph has doppler potential.
  - Always avilable\on local POR / POI with great accuracy and works without network connection too.

• Altimeter support
  - Altimeter data
  - Incline support Hiking, biking etc.

• Weather models
  - Crowed sourcing pressure data
  - Improving existing weather model accuracy
  - Standalone local barometric pressure data. Also works without network connection.

• Medical applications
  - Local Pain management Point Of Reference ...Think like sinus pressure headaches, joint pain, etc..
  - Diagnostic tool
  Diagnostic tool also doesn't necessarily mean a local tool. The intelligent chip itself could also be utilized by 3rd party hardware if open enough.

Some have also suggested that apple might not be under the gun to help support any crowd-sourced component, while thats probably the case nothing stops 3rd party devs from picking up where apple leaves off.

So to sum it up, its more than just a tool to tell you when its going to rain or measure your marginal terrain incline as you move. Unlike other sensors which have obvious failure points, It pulls double duty.
Other than 3DTouch it's the biggest linchpin.

The conversation is not that the sensor is not useful, but that Apple chose to exclude it from the SE. If you as a consumer want the sensor, get the 6 or 6s flagship, or get an android.

 

[AVN6293]

Judging from some of the lack of inventory, seems like Apple customers disagree with this assessment.
[doublepost=1466305146][/doublepost]
The conversation is not that the sensor is not useful, but that Apple chose to exclude it from the SE. If you as a consumer want the sensor, get the 6 or 6s flagship, or get an android.

yea my next device will be a M8S (android) if i can get ANT+ working on it with a 3rd party rom.
If not i'll just invest in a M8. Better quality speakers on both too IMHO

By the way, lack of inventory really doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.
Many dealers will try and scoop up multiple devices to try and turn a profit only to be left holding the bag.

Good device. Not worth a 400$+ investment.

 

[Radon87000]

Judging from some of the lack of inventory, seems like Apple customers disagree with this assessment.
[doublepost=1466305146][/doublepost]
The conversation is not that the sensor is not useful, but that Apple chose to exclude it from the SE. If you as a consumer want the sensor, get the 6 or 6s flagship, or get an android.

Or maybe the SE supply has been cut due to lack of demand.

 

[C DM]

Well put. I still think the SE is a great device. Just not in line with what its fullest potential could be. Not worth the 400$ investment over the M8s or GS6

So "a great device" yet "unusable"...right...well, at least that certainly does a pretty good job summarizing the latter half of this thread going in circles.

No. It is very unusable. I demand my devices to have standards of 2016 not 1996.

[doublepost=1466314682][/doublepost]

Or maybe the SE supply has been cut due to lack of demand.

The lack of demand that is people wanting to get it and having a hard time finding it?

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/05/03/apple-ramps-iphone-se-orders-amid-sales-pressures/

 

[QCassidy352]

The pressure sensor immediately ads support for:

• Location services refinements
  Which has a effect on:
  - GPS Lock time.
  - Battery Life. YES battery life, read through the posts about dopplershift and burn-in.
  - Location Accuracy especially at high speeds. Anything OVER 70mph has doppler potential.
  - Always avilable\on local POR / POI with great accuracy and works without network connection too.

• Altimeter support
  - Altimeter data
  - Incline support Hiking, biking etc.

• Weather models
  - Crowed sourcing pressure data
  - Improving existing weather model accuracy
  - Standalone local barometric pressure data. Also works without network connection.

• Medical applications
  - Local Pain management Point Of Reference ...Think like sinus pressure headaches, joint pain, etc..
  - Diagnostic tool
  Diagnostic tool also doesn't necessarily mean a local tool. The intelligent chip itself could also be utilized by 3rd party hardware if open enough.

You can certainly make it sound important when you write a long list of bullet points. But what you're failing to consider is (1) how few of those things matter to the vast majority of users, and (2) how the SE does, even without a barometer, even on those few issues that might matter to most people.

There are two things on that list that I can see as relevant issues to the average consumer: the first two you listed. Everything beyond that is niche at best, functionally irrelevant at worst.

And with respect to those first two items, sure they're conceptually important, but the unstated implication of your post is that the SE is deficient in those areas absent the barometer. But that implication is simply false, and spectacularly so. My SE locks onto GPS within seconds, every single time, with no noticeable difference from my old 6, which had a barometer. And it has the best battery life I've ever had on an iphone, vastly exceeding what I ever got on my barometer-equipped 6.

Could a barometer improve those already-outstanding results even more? I'll take your word for it that it could. But neither of those things is even remotely a weak point of the SE, so we're talking about a tiny bit more icing on an already very well-iced cake.

We've been round and round endlessly on this issue (to the point that the thread got locked), but the fundamental point remains unchanged no matter how many bullets you put on your list: for 99.9% of us, the presence or absence of a barometer changes neither the way we use, nor our subjective satisfaction with, our phones.

And with that, I think I'll bow out of this particular thread, as I just don't think there's anything more that can be said productively on this issue. I hope you're all as happy with your own phones - whether they have barometers or not - as I am with my SE. Cheers.

 

[Channan]

Well put. I still think the SE is a great device. Just not in line with what its fullest potential could be. Not worth the 400$ investment over the M8s or GS6

Of course it's not at its full potential. Expecting everything the 6s has in a smaller body for less than 2/3 the price is ridiculous. There are going to be compromises, and I just don't think a barometer is a compromise most people care about at all.

 

[AVN6293]

You can certainly make it sound important when you write a long list of bullet points. But what you're failing to consider is (1) how few of those things matter to the vast majority of users, and (2) how the SE does, even without a barometer, even on those few issues that might matter to most people.

There are two things on that list that I can see as relevant issues to the average consumer: the first two you listed. Everything beyond that is niche at best, functionally irrelevant at worst.

And with respect to those first two items, sure they're conceptually important, but the unstated implication of your post is that the SE is deficient in those areas absent the barometer. But that implication is simply false, and spectacularly so. My SE locks onto GPS within seconds, every single time, with no noticeable difference from my old 6, which had a barometer. And it has the best battery life I've ever had on an iphone, vastly exceeding what I ever got on my barometer-equipped 6.

Could a barometer improve those already-outstanding results even more? I'll take your word for it that it could. But neither of those things is even remotely a weak point of the SE, so we're talking about a tiny bit more icing on an already very well-iced cake.

We've been round and round endlessly on this issue (to the point that the thread got locked), but the fundamental point remains unchanged no matter how many bullets you put on your list: for 99.9% of us, the presence or absence of a barometer changes neither the way we use, nor our subjective satisfaction with, our phones.

And with that, I think I'll bow out of this particular thread, as I just don't think there's anything more that can be said productively on this issue. I hope you're all as happy with your own phones - whether they have barometers or not - as I am with my SE. Cheers.

Well, i like to look at things from a idealist perspective. I look at features for not just how much they are worth to me now but also what their long term impact will be.

I guess if you need apple pay support the SE is a "ok" investment over that of say the 5s.
After a while though all the extra Mhz really aren't going to mean anything if you don't have productivity app (not game) developers willing to code for the new CPU instruction sets. And not to add wood to the fire but lets be realistic, app development on iOS has reached a strong plateau. So i just don't see that.

My other concern that someone actually brought up to me last night was how much of a trade in value will the SE have against the upcoming iPhone 7? This was a conversation i had in passing so i wouldn't put to much stock into it. But it is a valid concern as well.

Anyways,
I'm happy you are happy with your SE. That's what it is all about.

 

[Channan]

I don't think people are "upset" about it. More like upset about the fact apple does very little to communicate *upfront* (more than just a "-" line in a comparison chart) to customers that 3DTouch and the barometer are absent. If you think about it long and hard and weigh the benefits in the long run these two features are the biggest bridges that are missing which would have put the SE in a completely different category. You will hear words like flagship being thrown around as well as hyperbole. I implore you to read through the facts in the thread objectively before you make your purchase. I emphasize that now even more with iOS 10 right around the corner as well as the updates to homekit. And just to recap once again. (no "buzzwords" here)

The pressure sensor immediately ads support for:

• Location services refinements
  Which has a effect on:
  - GPS Lock time.
  - Battery Life. YES battery life, read through the posts about dopplershift and burn-in.
  - Location Accuracy especially at high speeds. Anything OVER 70mph has doppler potential.
  - Always avilable\on local POR / POI with great accuracy and works without network connection too.

• Altimeter support
  - Altimeter data
  - Incline support Hiking, biking etc.

• Weather models
  - Crowed sourcing pressure data
  - Improving existing weather model accuracy
  - Standalone local barometric pressure data. Also works without network connection.

• Medical applications
  - Local Pain management Point Of Reference ...Think like sinus pressure headaches, joint pain, etc..
  - Diagnostic tool
  Diagnostic tool also doesn't necessarily mean a local tool. The intelligent chip itself could also be utilized by 3rd party hardware if open enough.

Some have also suggested that apple might not be under the gun to help support any crowd-sourced component, while thats probably the case nothing stops 3rd party devs from picking up where apple leaves off.

So to sum it up, its more than just a tool to tell you when its going to rain or measure your marginal terrain incline as you move. Unlike other sensors which have obvious failure points, It pulls double duty.
Other than 3DTouch it's the biggest linchpin.

Considering the iPhone SE without a barometer has better battery life than the iPhone 6s with a barometer, I don't think this is a reason to not get the iPhone SE.

Crowd sourced pressure data isn't something that would affect anyone with an iPhone SE. You could still get that information from people with other iPhones, and those with iPhone SEs can still use that data.

With the money you save with an iPhone SE, you could easily just buy a better standalone altimeter. Out of all the things the iPhone SE lacks, I never would have thought the thing a few people would get so upset about is the lack of a barometer.

 

[AVN6293]

Considering the iPhone SE without a barometer has better battery life than the iPhone 6s with a barometer, I don't think this is a reason to not get the iPhone SE.

Crowd sourced pressure data isn't something that would affect anyone with an iPhone SE. You could still get that information from people with other iPhones, and those with iPhone SEs can still use that data.

With the money you save with an iPhone SE, you could easily just buy a better standalone altimeter. Out of all the things the iPhone SE lacks, I never would have thought the thing a few people would get so upset about is the lack of a barometer.

Of course it's not at its full potential. Expecting everything the 6s has in a smaller body for less than 2/3 the price is ridiculous. There are going to be compromises, and I just don't think a barometer is a compromise most people care about at all.

I guess if you have the money to throw around investing in something that doesn't live up to its full potential is ok.
Many people want to get the best bang for their buck. At the end of the day with taxes and the no brainer Apple Care+ support I just don't see how putting 400$+ plus another 100 or so for ?2 years? worth of extra coverage is worth it to someone cutting their teeth on iOS. Not when I can pickup a M8 (or CAL21) and get 3 years of coverage with squaretrade for 1 quarter of that and have a device with a better feature set.

As for crowdsourcing weather data. You are probably right, that wouldn't effect the average joe.
Average isn't average anymore. Peoples standards have changed.

 

[Channan]

I guess if you have the money to throw around investing in something that doesn't live up to its full potential is ok.
Many people want to get the best bang for their buck. At the end of the day with taxes and the no brainer apple care support I just don't see how putting 400$ plus another 100 or so for ?2 years? worth of extra coverage is worth it to someone cutting their teeth on iOS.

As for crowdsourcing weather data. You are probably right, that wouldn't effect the average joe.
Average isn't average anymore. Peoples standards have changed.

I got the best bang for my buck with the iPhone SE, because it has all the things I actually care about and I saved $250. I think you're failing to realize just how much of a savings the iPhone SE is. I could buy three iPhone SE's and still pay less than you'd pay for two iPhone 6s's. No, it's not the absolute best hardware, but definitely the best bang for buck.

Not understanding your "average isn't average anymore" comment or how that's relevant to what I said. Not being able to participate in crowd sourced data but still being able to use it won't change how you use your phone.

For example, some people use Waze. I use Google Maps. They can put information in on accidents, traffic jams, etc. and I can't, but I can still see the information they provide so I still know where to take alternate routes or how long I'm going to be delayed. So I can't participate in the data, but I still get to use it.

 

[AVN6293]

Not understanding your "average isn't average anymore" comment or how that's relevant to what I said. Not being able to participate in crowd sourced data but still being able to use it won't change how you use your phone.

For example, some people use Waze. I use Google Maps. They can put information in on accidents, traffic jams, etc. and I can't, but I can still see the information they provide so I still know where to take alternate routes or how long I'm going to be delayed. So I can't participate in the data, but I still get to use it.

Yes, you can't participate. You also don't have the ability to build to a new standard on a obvious lean and partially refined platform. Again; NO, the average joe wouldn't need that. I'm not average.

As for waze, did you see the article published 2 days ago about left lane turns? I rest my case.

http://fortune.com/2016/06/18/googl...s-helping-drivers-avoid-unsafe-lefthand-turns

 

[Channan]

Yes, you can't participate. You also don't have the ability to build to a new standard on a obvious lean and partially refined platform. Again; NO, the average joe wouldn't need that. I'm not average.

As for waze, did you see the article published 2 days ago about left lane turns? I rest my case.

What's up with you and posting irrelevant information? How does the left turn issue have anything to do with what I mentioned? It doesn't. No wonder this thread has so many replies. You can't even stay on topic.

 

[I7guy]

Or maybe the SE supply has been cut due to lack of demand.

From the launch? You think Apple purposely under-ordered because they projected it wouldn't sell after deciding to bring back this form factor?
[doublepost=1466339218][/doublepost]

yea my next device will be a M8S (android) if i can get ANT+ working on it with a 3rd party rom.
If not i'll just invest in a M8. Better quality speakers on both too IMHO

By the way, lack of inventory really doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.
Many dealers will try and scoop up multiple devices to try and turn a profit only to be left holding the bag.

Good device. Not worth a 400$+ investment.

Good luck with the m8. Other points have been addressed above.

 

[AVN6293]

What's up with you and posting irrelevant information? How does the left turn issue have anything to do with what I mentioned? It doesn't. No wonder this thread has so many replies. You can't even stay on topic.

You are the one who brought up waze as a example I was simply making a point how great waze is on its own.

http://fortune.com/2016/06/18/googl...ze-now-allows-drivers-to-avoid-lefthand-turns

 

[I7guy]

Of course it's not at its full potential. Expecting everything the 6s has in a smaller body for less than 2/3 the price is ridiculous. There are going to be compromises, and I just don't think a barometer is a compromise most people care about at all.

This is exactly the point. It's not that the barometer isn't useful, it's at this price point Apple made some decisions. Basically apple is bring blasted for bring a high-end budget phone to market.

Would the same have been said if the barometer was included but the phone was $499?

 

[AVN6293]

This is exactly the point. It's not that the barometer isn't useful, it's at this price point Apple made some decisions. Basically apple is bring blasted for bring a high-end budget phone to market.

Would the same have been said if the barometer was included but the phone was $499?

Well since you brought up a erroneous price point would you have any objection for me breaking things down further compared to a completely other device?

 

[I7guy]

Well since you brought up a erroneous price point would you have any objection for me breaking things down further compared to a completely other device?

Actually yes. Because this is apples price point. You want a budget android device go get it. You want a budget Apple device, this is what you are getting. Nothing will change that. The price point is not erroneous; it was well thought out.

 

[AVN6293]

Actually yes. Because this is apples price point. You want a budget android device go get it. You want a budget Apple device, this is what you are getting. Nothing will change that. The price point is not erroneous; it was well thought out.

I still just don't see how it's worth the investment. It comes with baggage and then after spending money on the device, the no-brainer coverage THEN if i want accessories even more it comes to around 550$ or more. That's if i chose the safe route & buy direct.
If i wanted to cut my teeth this bad on iOS i'll pickup two used 5s's. One on iOS 7 & one on 9, a ST warranty for one of them, and still save money.

The only way i could justify the cost is if I were already in bed with ApplePay (is apple pay one word or 2?) which i'm not. Is that bad? I hope not.

 

[Channan]

I still just don't see how it's worth the investment. It comes with baggage and then after spending money on the device, the no-brainer coverage THEN if i want accessories even more it comes to around 550$ or more. That's if i chose the safe route & buy direct. If i wanted to cut my teeth this bad on iOS i'll pickup two used 5s's. One on iOS 7 & one on 9, a ST warranty for one of them, and still save money.

The only way i could justify the cost is if I were already in bed with ApplePay (is apple pay one word or 2?) which i'm not. Is that bad? I hope not.

So you're not even comparing the iPhone SE to the iPhone 6s. You're comparing it to low end Android phones. Lol Got it.

 

[AVN6293]

So you're not even comparing the iPhone SE to the iPhone 6s. You're comparing it to low end Android phones. Lol Got it.

Low end? The M8s is not really low end. http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_one_m8s-7165.php

By the way the specs on that page are off slightly the M8s was released with bluetooth 4.2 not 4.1.

EDIT:

Come to think of it my conclusions are worse than i thought. I mean my god look at the comparison page.

http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=7165&idPhone2=7969

 

[d-b]

IIRC DoplerShift isn't a buzzword d-b, it's a well known issue among developers that do work with fine location.
DoplerShift is something that happens when you are traveling at high speed. I don't know all the details myself but i do know its always been a big problem and also one of the reasons google started mining WiFi AP mac addresses a few years back.
And i think GNSS is a updated version of the GPS network we have in the usa which offers faster lock times with shorter visibility windows.

I know what doppler shift is (you can actually observe it yourself by listening to the sirens of an ambulance driving fast towards you, passes by and then drive away from you). And I also know what Glonass is. I just want this guy to explain it in his own words, because the way he uses it does not make sense.