iPhone SE and the missing barometer

[C DM]

No. Because while wireless network technology is constantly changing barometric pressure is a cosmological constant and will always provide me with some use one way or another.

Don't forget what happened to AMPS and iDen.

The wireless technology certainly doesn't change as quickly as devices become old and essentially not useful. Fairly moot point there.

And what sort of one way or another use does barometric pressure provide without which a mobile phone would become unusable?

And, again, purely out of curiosity, was there no need for a mobile device prior to 2013?

 

[AVN6293]

The wireless technology certainly doesn't change as quickly as devices become old and essentially not useful. Fairly moot point there.

And what sort of one way or another use does barometric pressure provide without which a mobile phone would become unusable?

And, again, purely out of curiosity, was there no need for a mobile device prior to 2013?

Unless you have a chrystal ball, we have very little knowledge about what cellular wireless technology is going to do in the next 5-10 years.
As far as whats useful. I still have PDAs' from 1998 that are still used. Their size and small footprint make them a invaluable tool for taking notes (among other things) without distracting customers.

The beauty of the barometric pressure sensor is that people are still finding uses for it. It already compliments existing technology and it will never need to be upgraded. Other than its current uses some things i can think of off the top of my head. ...Like we have already discussed here in this thread. Doppler aid, weather tracking, environment teardown, migraine tracking, elevation tracking, and altimeter readings, just to name a few things. But this only barely scratches the surface.

And honestly i'm not sure i understand the question about the need for a mobile device. If you mean in the market i'd have to say absolutely.


\grandulouse sarcasm
What gripes me the most about this hole thing is tim cook still hasn't apologized to me yet.
He has time to climb Yosemite but doesn't have time to make more considerations after poisoning the market with a inferior product. /ozs

 

[5105973]

I'm not trying to give you a hard time. But i couldn't even imagine giving my child a device without first examining how they treat legacy products.

Your baseline (and their parents baseline) for these children is extremely liberal and scary.

Maybe that's just me. Just hope you aren't making a uninformed decision.
The iPhone SE is a good product, but in my eyes it needed 3D Touch and the barometer to make it usable IRL.

Gauging a childs needs as being this rudimentary without even TALKING to them about such a intimate purchase is just wrong. You are patronizing the child, leaving them misinformed, and "delinquent".

It's possibly patronizing to the child but even parents with some financial means are not going to want to shell out the cost of the flagship models when the SE is capable of doing the basic tasks the parents decide their kids need of a phone. At some point the kids will be old enough to get a job and pay for the iPhone of their dreams. By that point they should also be able to do their own research. That would be the older teens. 11-14 year olds will be fine with the SE. They ARE fine with the SE. Why wouldn't they be?

And if down the road they aren't, they can sell or trade the SE in.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the liberal and scary comment.

The parents did/do examine how their kids treated legacy products. One of the girls who kept losing her iPod touch won't get an SE until she learns to be more responsible with her things. Same with one of the boys who was rough on his hand me down iPad. My own daughter had to wait a year and demonstrate she could treat my old 5s better than she did her dad's old iPhone 4 (without a phone sim, used like an iPod).

I don't think you're giving me a hard time at all. You're very polite and pleasant and I hope I've answered your points as I understood them.

 

[AVN6293]

It's possibly patronizing to the child but even parents with some financial means are not going to want to shell out the cost of the flagship models when the SE is capable of doing the basic tasks the parents decide their kids need of a phone. At some point the kids will be old enough to get a job and pay for the iPhone of their dreams. By that point they should also be able to do their own research. That would be the older teens. 11-14 year olds will be fine with the SE. They ARE fine with the SE. Why wouldn't they be?

And if down the road they aren't, they can sell or trade the SE in.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the liberal and scary comment.

The parents did/do examine how their kids treated legacy products. One of the girls who kept losing her iPod touch won't get an SE until she learns to be more responsible with her things. Same with one of the boys who was rough on his hand me down iPad. My own daughter had to wait a year and demonstrate she could treat my old 5s better than she did her dad's old iPhone 4 (without a phone sim, used like an iPod).

I don't think you're giving me a hard time at all. You're very polite and pleasant and I hope I've answered your points as I understood them.

See now why can't everyone else in this thread be as cordial and affluent as you =)
I really appreciate your response without throwing in things like .... omg this member must be trolling us ! 😱 🙄 lol

Looking at things a little differently from the childs POV i'd hope to give them all their options early on, especially since older firmwares have shown to be far easily jailbreakable than newer ones. It also opens up far better file system access as KPP has shown. This way the child learns early on how to utilize extensions for the best benefit to provide a extra layer of hardened security on the device along with the best fish eye view that works best for them.

I've looked at smartphones for the longest time as being more than just the device. Just like the presidency is more than just one man or woman. As Tim cook and company have so eloquently put a smartphone is a very intimate thing. It's almost like a extension of ones self. And he's right there; it is.
Accessories compliment a device turning it into a suite that is a true extension of ones self.

Going out on a limb here. What i would have done is gotten each of them a NexusOne and explained some of the best ways to root, upgrade and add accessories to the device for the best smartphone suite conceivable. Then let them go out and get them.
Give them goals and grades on what they can accomplish with the device then later on downgrade or upgrade them to wherever the grass is greenest at that point.

Anways, i suppose everyones budget at any given time can be a bit frantic.
I wish them all the best with the SE and hope a jailbreak comes out for 9.3.x soon.

 

[5105973]

Kids do sports. They bike and run etc. They are heavy users of location-based apps.

Also if money is a matter there are dirt cheap and very competent options on Android and Windows Phone.

I don't personally know of any kids in the 11-14 age group who use apps for their biking and running. Some are starting to show up in Fitbits, but that's about it. It may just be my location and the perceived crime levels we have here, but when kids that age go biking it's usually with an adult and maybe the adult uses the apps. Our family doesn't but we aren't avid bikers, we stick to local trails. At any rate most adults I know do have one of the 6's. I'm one of the few, possibly the only one so far who has downsized to an SE. I still have my 6S plus but it's too darned big to lug around in the summer.

Again, I will reiterate to you and @AVN6293 that I think it would be great to have 3-D Touch and a barometer. But for this size and price point, at the current time, I don't see it being a deal breaker for most of the people Tim Cook said he was targeting the SE to.

As for Android and Windows Phone alternatives, well I already said the kids who had the SE were interested in the Live Photo feature as well as FaceTime. They do iMessage as well. We do have a couple of Android families among us. Their kids don't have any devices of their own, for whatever reason. One of my daughter's closest friends has an older Samsung phone. They don't text each other but they use email.

Not to knock Windows phones, which I quite like when I tried them, but I don't know anybody who has one.
[doublepost=1464577815][/doublepost]

See now why can't everyone else in this thread be as cordial and affluent as you =)
I really appreciate your response without throwing in things like .... omg this member must be trolling us ! 😱 🙄 lol

Looking at things a little differently from the childs POV i'd hope to give them all their options early on, especially since older firmwares have shown to be far easily jailbreakable than newer ones. It also opens up far better file system access as KPP has shown. This way the child learns early on how to utilize extensions for the best benefit to provide a extra layer of hardened security on the device along with the best fish eye view that works best for them.

I've looked at smartphones for the longest time as being more than just the device. Just like the presidency is more than just one man or woman. As Tim cook and company have so eloquently put a smartphone is a very intimate thing. It's almost like a extension of ones self. And he's right there; it is.
Accessories compliment a device turning it into a suite that is a true extension of ones self.

Going out on a limb here. What i would have done is gotten each of them a nexus one and explained some of the best ways to root, upgrade and add accessories to the device for the best smartphone suite conceivable. Then let them go out and get them.
Give them goals and grades on what they can accomplish with the device then later on downgrade or upgrade them to wherever the grass is greenest at that point.

Anways, i suppose everyones budget at any given time can be a bit frantic.
I wish them all the best with the SE and hope a jailbreak comes out for 9.3.x soon.

Ah, I think I finally understand where you're coming from with this. Do you have kids? If you do, you're a fun parent to have. That's a fabulous suggestion and I wish I had the tech savvy myself to carry it out. Lol, nevermind the kids, maybe I'll snag a Nexxus on discount one of these days and try to teach myself how to do all of that. I've taught myself crazier hobbies.

Unfortunately the parents I'm talking about aren't tech savvy enough to teach their kids to do that, either. To give you an example, several of them own their own businesses, like contracting and catering. Another is a successful attorney. Another is a biomedical engineer. Smartphones are something they use but do not have time or inclination to tinker with. My husband could do this, but he's busy and doesn't think it's fun to mess with gadgets anymore. Maybe when he retires he will, again.

Ah, well you've given me something to consider.

 

[cynics]

If you will be using location services (GPS) then I implore you to read my above post thats in red.

I read it prior to my post. My post was based on a backing packing/hiking perceptive.

And like I mentioned if you are on an expedition that requires the use of a barometer equipped GPS you'll want a dedicated device. An iPhone is too fragile (not water proof or extreme temp resistant), too short of battery life, too generic for the task with apps that are too hokey.

Like I said I've done a majority of the Appalachian with iPhones prior to the 6 (no barometer) I can't notice a difference in GPS lock and accuracy....maybe it's there I don't know.

How accurate is the barometer anyway? Various apps are telling me I'm 50 meters above sea level.....that isn't even remotely close. However it seems fairly accurate with differentials, walking up stairs is about right (3 meters).

 

[AVN6293]

How accurate is the barometer anyway? Various apps are telling me I'm 50 meters above sea level.....that isn't even remotely close. However it seems fairly accurate with differentials, walking up stairs is about right (3 meters).

I can't give you guesses on individual apps. What i can tell you is that readings and stats should be logged at micro small levels hundreds of times a second.

 

[Osamede]

Again, I will reiterate to you and @AVN6293 that I think it would be great to have 3-D Touch and a barometer. But for this size and price point, at the current time, I don't see it being a deal breaker for most of the people Tim Cook said he was targeting the SE to.

As for Android and Windows Phone alternatives, well I already said the kids who had the SE were interested in the Live Photo feature as well as FaceTime. They do iMessage as well. We do have a couple of Android families among us. Their kids don't have any devices of their own, for whatever reason. One of my daughter's closest friends has an older Samsung phone. They don't text each other but they use email.

Not to knock Windows phones, which I quite like when I tried them, but I don't know anybody who has one.

I dont say it is a bad phone - I think its a good device. But once you start talking price point, in the big picture this is not a cheap phone. The competition out there is tough and there are many very good and cheap options. So its a bit annoying for Apple to play games with cutting out components in a chassis that they have amortised to hell and back already.

All I can tell you is that for a the equivalent of hundred bucks I picked up a barely used Windows Phone for a kid who couldnt be happier with it: switches between operating that phone, the Android tablet I have and my iphone seamlessly.

 

[C DM]

Unless you have a chrystal ball, we have very little knowledge about what cellular wireless technology is going to do in the next 5-10 years.
As far as whats useful. I still have PDAs' from 1998 that are still used. Their size and small footprint make them a invaluable tool for taking notes (among other things) without distracting customers.

The beauty of the barometric pressure sensor is that people are still finding uses for it. It already compliments existing technology and it will never need to be upgraded. Other than its current uses some things i can think of off the top of my head. ...Like we have already discussed here in this thread. Doppler aid, weather tracking, environment teardown, migraine tracking, elevation tracking, and altimeter readings, just to name a few things. But this only barely scratches the surface.

And honestly i'm not sure i understand the question about the need for a mobile device. If you mean in the market i'd have to say absolutely.


\grandulouse sarcasm
What gripes me the most about this hole thing is tim cook still hasn't apologized to me yet.
He has time to climb Yosemite but doesn't have time to make more considerations after poisoning the market with a inferior product. /ozs

So basically, once again, none of that makes a mobile phone unusable.

 

[Osamede]

So basically, once again, none of that makes a mobile phone unusable.

So basically, once again, none of that makes a mobile phone unusable.

Can I ask what's the point of inserting strawman arguments in the thread? What do you accomplish by doing so?

 

[C DM]

Can I ask what's the point of inserting strawman arguments in the thread? What do you accomplish by doing so?

Simply pointing out that a mobile phone that doesn't have 3D Touch or a barometer is nothing even in the realm of being unsusbale. Not sure what's there to miss or misinterpret or anything else when it comes to something as basic as that.

 

[Osamede]

Simply pointing out that a mobile phone that doesn't have 3D Touch or a barometer is nothing even in the realm of being unsusbale. Not sure what's there to miss or misinterpret or anything else when it comes to something as basic as that.

But no one said "unusable"...except you. You yourself set up a ridiculous dummy then began battling it.

Then when called on it, you are you pretending you didnt do this. But it's two inches up the page in black and white. So denial is rather silly.

Really, what's the point of this? What does it accomplish?

 

[I7guy]

But no one said "unusable"...except you. You yourself set up a ridiculous dummy then began battling it.

Then when called on it, you are you pretending you didnt do this. But it's two inches up the page in black and white. So denial is rather silly.

Really, what's the point of this? What does it accomplish?

C DM did not say it was unusable. Doing a bit of research into the post history and following the post history back would have brought you here where it was said:

"...barometer to make it usable IRL."

iPhone SE and the missing barometer
Given the phone is selling the public is speaking the SE is emminently usable without a barometer.

 

[AVN6293]

C DM did not say it was unusable. Doing a bit of research into the post history and following the post history back would have brought you here where it was said:

"...barometer to make it usable IRL."

iPhone SE and the missing barometer
Given the phone is selling the public is speaking the SE is emminently usable without a barometer.

Keep in mind though. We still don't know what the return stats are. My outfit won't get those stats until around july.

Osamede is right. Its not right for them to cut corners on a device they amortized. They are essentially poisoning the market by doing this.
Leaving local FM radio out of the iPxxx line i could deal with (introducing it in the NANO line eased the pain).
This on the other hand is just a cold shoulder given to consumers.

 

[I7guy]

Keep in mind though. We still don't know what the return stats are. My outfit won't get those stats until around july.

Osamede is right. Its not right for them to cut corners on a device they amortized. They are essentially poisoning the market by doing this.
Leaving local FM radio out of the iPxxx line i could deal with (introducing it in the NANO 7 eased the pain).
This on the other hand is just a cold shoulder given to consumers.

Whatever "your outfit" is, return results can't be generalized across the world.

Apple can do pretty much what they want, just the Ford and Honda and BMW and Samsung...etc.

It's up to the consumer to decide what model and manufacturer is right for them.

 

[Osamede]

C DM did not say it was unusable. Doing a bit of research into the post history and following the post history back would have brought you here where it was said:

"...barometer to make it usable IRL."

iPhone SE and the missing barometer
Given the phone is selling the public is speaking the SE is emminently usable without a barometer.

Fair enough, but that seems to be to be obvious hyperbole. The rest of his text pointed consistently to it being less than it could be, rather than useless.

Like I said, I dont think it is a bad device. But there are some curious choices made in it really. Not just the barometer, but I dont think it would really cost much difference to have an updated screen and updated touch ID, plus their current facetime camera, as opposed to the old one. Some may be cheaper even - a lot of times technology developments mean that new components are actually cheaper than older components that they replace, based on new approaches, increased volume or just progress down the cost curve as they learn to make them more efficiently.

A lot of small stuff, that to me adds up to a bit of intentional sandbagging/manufactured obsolescence. It's not an extreme level of it, but that seems to be the game here. And really unnecessary.

 

[lordofthereef]

But no one said "unusable"...except you. You yourself set up a ridiculous dummy then began battling it.

Yes. Yes it was said s few times. Hint: not by you. It seems the thread was "cleaned up", so you may have a hard time finding it. I believe the direct quote was "unusable in real time", whatever that means.

He and I were simply try to get an understanding of why a phone like this is unusable to anyone. I even asked something along the lines of "why is it unusable to you?" We were never offered one.

I'll repeat , though it may be in deaf ears, that I'm not even arguing that the barometer removal was fair, or good, or right. I'm simply trying to understand how this light effect me today, tomorrow, five years down the road. But again, all that keeps being repeated is how terrible Apple is with their planned obsolescence and how foolish we all are for supporting it. I've still yet to be given a tangible reason why this barometer should matter to me. And at this point I don't expect to. Because the argument isn't really about how important a barometer is in a phone. Not really.

 

[AVN6293]

Fair enough, but that seems to be to be obvious hyperbole. The rest of his text pointed consistently to it being less than it could be, rather than useless.

Like I said, I dont think it is a bad device. But there are some curious choices made in it really. Not just the barometer, but I dont think it would really cost much difference to have an updated screen and updated touch ID, plus their current facetime camera, as opposed to the old one. Some may be cheaper even - a lot of times technology developments mean that new components are actually cheaper than older components that they replace, based on new approaches, increased volume or just progress down the cost curve as they learn to make them more efficiently.

A lot of small stuff, that to me adds up to a bit of intentional sandbagging/manufactured obsolescence. It's not an extreme level of it, but that seems to be the game here. And really unnecessary.

I know. I tried to be as direct as possible but people take things the wrong way. If anything i mean it was unusable IRL for me. Others can make there own decision whats best for them. If they want to let apple rake them over the obsolescence coals. No sweat off my back.

And the poisoning of the market continues...

 

[I7guy]

Fair enough, but that seems to be to be obvious hyperbole. The rest of his text pointed consistently to it being less than it could be, rather than useless.

Like I said, I dont think it is a bad device. But there are some curious choices made in it really. Not just the barometer, but I dont think it would really cost much difference to have an updated screen and updated touch ID, plus their current facetime camera, as opposed to the old one. Some may be cheaper even - a lot of times technology developments mean that new components are actually cheaper than older components that they replace, based on new approaches, increased volume or just progress down the cost curve as they learn to make them more efficiently.

A lot of small stuff, that to me adds up to a bit of intentional sandbagging/manufactured obsolescence. It's not an extreme level of it, but that seems to be the game here. And really unnecessary.

I agree this was done intentionally, but I can't speak for apple otherwise.

I can speak for myself as a consumer and say, before I buy anything, I would research the product and then decide if the product is right for me. You can't go on second-guessing the manufacturers thinking. You decide if you want a product at a given price point.
[doublepost=1464619047][/doublepost]

I know. I tried to be as direct as possible but people take things the wrong way. If anything i mean it was unusable IRL for me. Others can make there own decision whats best for them. If they want to let apple rake them over the obsolescence coals. No sweat off my back.

And the poisoning of the market continues...

The bolded is so true, it's an individual decision to decide value-cost proposition.

 

[AVN6293]

Heres to the iPhone SE-S if it ever comes out.

 

[C DM]

But no one said "unusable"...except you. You yourself set up a ridiculous dummy then began battling it.

Then when called on it, you are you pretending you didnt do this. But it's two inches up the page in black and white. So denial is rather silly.

Really, what's the point of this? What does it accomplish?

Actually reading the thread and not making things up would help.
[doublepost=1464620988][/doublepost]

Fair enough, but that seems to be to be obvious hyperbole. The rest of his text pointed consistently to it being less than it could be, rather than useless.

Like I said, I dont think it is a bad device. But there are some curious choices made in it really. Not just the barometer, but I dont think it would really cost much difference to have an updated screen and updated touch ID, plus their current facetime camera, as opposed to the old one. Some may be cheaper even - a lot of times technology developments mean that new components are actually cheaper than older components that they replace, based on new approaches, increased volume or just progress down the cost curve as they learn to make them more efficiently.

A lot of small stuff, that to me adds up to a bit of intentional sandbagging/manufactured obsolescence. It's not an extreme level of it, but that seems to be the game here. And really unnecessary.

Obvious hyperbole? Sure, quite possible/likely...except that the poster that said it has kept on insisting on it and surely didn't mention anything about it being hyperbole. And even with that said, hyperbole or not, ridiculous things like that deserve to be called out, especially because they set a tone and essentially undermine much of what someone might have to say (similar to how baseless accusations and made up things do).

 

[AVN6293]

Actually reading the thread and not making things up would help.
[doublepost=1464620988][/doublepost]
Obvious hyperbole? Sure, quite possible/likely...except that the poster that said it has kept on insisting on it and surely didn't mention anything about it being hyperbole. And even with that said, hyperbole or not, ridiculous things like that deserve to be called out, especially because they set a tone and essentially undermine much of what someone might have to say (similar to how baseless accusations and made up things do).

I think you are slightly taking out of context what was said. Like we created some kind of infidelity between a couple or something. Or clubbed a baby seal. You're turning what was said into some kind of perverted thing.

I'm calling apple out on not including the barometer. Let it go. It's time apple starts becoming accountable for their obvious built in obsolescence and sandbagging.

 

[C DM]

I think you are slightly taking out of context what was said. Like we created some kind of infidelity between a couple or something. Or clubbed a baby seal. You're turning what was said into some kind of perverted thing.

I'm calling apple out on not including the barometer. Let it go. It's time apple starts becoming accountable for their obvious built in obsolescence and sandbagging.

You said that an iPhone is unusable in real life without a barometer or 3D Touch. That's not the case. If that's not what you meant, then perhaps saying what you actually meant, either there or in many following posts following up on it, instead of basically standing by that statement, would have been the way to go. Calling such an obvious thing out to expose the bias that gets built into it and thus anything else that might be said is certainly worthwhile.

 

[AVN6293]

You said that an iPhone is unusable in real life without a barometer or 3D Touch. That's not the case. If that's not what you meant, then perhaps saying what you actually meant, either there or in many following posts following up on it, instead of basically standing by that statement, would have been the way to go. Calling such an obvious thing out to expose the bias that gets built into it and thus anything else that might be said is certainly worthwhile.

Sandbagging, obsolescence, perversion.

🙁

 

[zhenya]

I'd be very curious to have a conversation with someone that feels a barometer in an iPhone is a useful addition when it comes to hiking/climbing.

I've always used my iPhone to pin point my position (in the rare event I wasn't sure) even before it had a barometer and now with the 6S I don't notice any difference what so ever. Paper maps.....batteries can't die.

If your hiking/climbing expedition requires a barometer the iPhone isn't going to cut it. You'll want a dedicated device. I've done a majority of the Appalachian Trail (in sections) and will use an iPhone to pinpoint my location (usually just to mark scenic areas) and haven't noticed a difference between iPhones prior to barometers to my 6S.

Personally I still find it a little gimmicky. Its good for calculating flights of steps climbed but what use is that? Maybe if you worked in an office, decide you need more exercise so you stop using the elevator and want to compare how many flights of stairs you climb between days.......? So when I go on a day hike I get information like this.

View attachment 633435

And I can't find any good apps to leverage this information in such a way that I can actually find useful.

Basically I'm glad the sensor is there on the 6S however it would not even cross my mind to not buy an iPhone because of lack of barometer even from a hiking/climbing perspective.

As I've said many times in this thread, from the very beginning, a barometer is much more accurate for measuring small elevation changes. The iPhone is almost certainly the single most popular tracking device made for running/hiking/cycling, and those activities can have much more accurate elevation profiles applied to them when barometric elevation data is paired with GPS positional data. It's not essential, but it's certainly useful. Just last week I had to explain to a friend who had done hill repeats on a small hill in his city why Strava recorded his extensive workout as zero elevation gain. It was because his device had no barometer and Strava ignores GPS elevation data below 40' of change.

Yes. Yes it was said s few times. Hint: not by you. It seems the thread was "cleaned up", so you may have a hard time finding it. I believe the direct quote was "unusable in real time", whatever that means.

He and I were simply try to get an understanding of why a phone like this is unusable to anyone. I even asked something along the lines of "why is it unusable to you?" We were never offered one.

I'll repeat , though it may be in deaf ears, that I'm not even arguing that the barometer removal was fair, or good, or right. I'm simply trying to understand how this light effect me today, tomorrow, five years down the road. But again, all that keeps being repeated is how terrible Apple is with their planned obsolescence and how foolish we all are for supporting it. I've still yet to be given a tangible reason why this barometer should matter to me. And at this point I don't expect to. Because the argument isn't really about how important a barometer is in a phone. Not really.

Above, plus, in theory, populating the world with hundreds of millions of devices with barometers in them has the potential to radically alter the way that weather is forecast much the way that Google has almost unbelievably good traffic monitoring due to the existence of the cell phone.