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I am so sick of iPhone this and iPhone that....until the thing comes comes out, who cares???
If I were you, I'd surf elsewhere. Going to macrumors.com, Thinksecret.com or a myriad of other like-minded sites devoted to everything Apple, you're going to be frustrated to no end for a long time to come.

Oh, and I certainly wouldn't POST to one of those awful iPhone threads.
 
Hey wait a minute, what happend to all the joviality a few months ago by people here who were predicting that the iPhone was already in production would ship early (as in April!) and were chastising those of us who said it would ship when Apple said it would...June?

Now it's shipping in late June (does two weeks really make a dif?) and everyone is so dour and down on Apple. Maybe this is why Apple doesn't like to give ship dates. I hate to pour more bad news on, but I'm predicting when the iPhone does ship in late June supply will be severely constrained (Think Wii).
 
This looks rediculous now. hoo - rah...:mad:

Why? Because Vista hit shelves 4 years late, first expected in 2003, and couldn't even manage to catch up to Tiger which was out in 2005? :p Or because Vista had so many features cut along the way, while Leopard hasn't? :) (Or maybe because Tiger is rock-solid, mature, and costs less than the less-capable Vista?)
 
That's an entirely different arguement.

Leopard is SOFTWARE, which is something that Apple can develop in-house, without hardware suppliers.

Leopard's delay was entirely Apple's fault.

The iPhone delay isn't the same.

The iPhone, just like everything else that Apple offers in terms of HARDWARE is dependent on whether or not Apple can actually get the parts and components it needs.

Apple can't just wave a wand and suddenly produce the chips it needs. It has to depend on other companies to supply the chips.

Do you guys honestly not see the difference here?

[edit: the article mentions how all the suppliers are meeting their ship times and goals, so it appears that waiting for the required parts isn't the cause for the delay. my mistake.]

So where do you draw the line? I can make the same argument about leopard.... Leopard won't be available because Apple's suppliers (employees) are unable to produce the code by the supplied date. It's not Apple's fault after all, it's the employees. Suppliers are very much employees. They were chosen for their ability to deliver a product just like an employee. They are paid for their goods and services supplied to the company. They are both and expense and a liability to the company and it is the company's duty to investigate the abilities of each to meet a deadline or demand. It's that simple. Chain of command. If a supplier can't supply a part or a programmer can't perform, it is Apple's fault. They chose poorly. If it were someone else's fault then a stockholder would have recourse with that person or company. It doesn't work that way. We vote with our feet or dollars and Apple does to.

Quick quiz... are you a liberal or conservative?... If you are self employed, and personally couldn't turn in a project on time because your computer crashed because of a defective part and you lost the job is it your fault or the computer manufacturer's?

Answer A. - your fault. Conservative. You understand it's your job to choose the most reliable computer and have a backup plan. Your work is too important.

B. Computer makers fault - liberal - You have no personal responsibility in the matter. There should be a government agency ensuring the reliability of computers with a new computer reliability tax which should be placed upon those that can afford it. (hint: they can afford the tax because they take personal responsibility for their actions and knowning that, are more successful)

You won't see Apple at a press conference stating "hey, it's not our fault, so and so couldn't provide enough hard drives, don't blame us. Sure, I guess it could easily happen again. We have no control over things like that. Gosh, I hope our next product isn't delayed too. Everybody cross your fingers. This is all just a big game of luck you know. Like rich people. They all inherited the money or won the lottery or something."

What you will see Apple say, especially to stockholders, "We realize our poor judgement in hard drive suppliers and are retooling our hard drive supplier choosing methods to ensure this doesn't happen again"

Putting the blame on another company for your own company's misfortune would be immature at best.
 
My mom's stock is still at 15% of it's 1999 value. It's all about timing.

Apple's stock is up over 1100% since 1999. A share's price as of closing this day in 1999 was 8 bucks. It has split twice along the way. Meaning the price of the stock was actually 32 bucks in 1999, but equal to $8 because twice it split and twice the price was cut in half and the shares doubled. Perhaps your mother doesn't realize she's rich? If she had ten grand in stock then, she has over a hundred grand now.

FWIW a fantastic stock increase would be 10% a year, in which you double your money in roughly 7 years. So you buy 10000 bucks of stock, it increases 10% a year, and in seven years you have 20000 bucks. Your mama's stock (AAPL) did a little better than that. Instead of 20k, it's worth 110k. Freakin' awesome.
 
So where do you draw the line? I can make the same argument about leopard.... Leopard won't be available because Apple's suppliers (employees) are unable to produce the code by the supplied date. It's not Apple's fault after all, it's the employees. Suppliers are very much employees. They were chosen for their ability to deliver a product just like an employee. They are paid for their goods and services supplied to the company. They are both and expense and a liability to the company and it is the company's duty to investigate the abilities of each to meet a deadline or demand. It's that simple. Chain of command. If a supplier can't supply a part or a programmer can't perform, it is Apple's fault. They chose poorly. If it were someone else's fault then a stockholder would have recourse with that person or company. It doesn't work that way. We vote with our feet or dollars and Apple does to.

Quick quiz... are you a liberal or conservative?... If you are self employed, and personally couldn't turn in a project on time because your computer crashed because of a defective part and you lost the job is it your fault or the computer manufacturer's?

Answer A. - your fault. Conservative. You understand it's your job to choose the most reliable computer and have a backup plan. Your work is too important.

B. Computer makers fault - liberal - You have no personal responsibility in the matter. There should be a government agency ensuring the reliability of computers with a new computer reliability tax which should be placed upon those that can afford it. (hint: they can afford the tax because they take personal responsibility for their actions and knowning that, are more successful)

You won't see Apple at a press conference stating "hey, it's not our fault, so and so couldn't provide enough hard drives, don't blame us. Sure, I guess it could easily happen again. We have no control over things like that. Gosh, I hope our next product isn't delayed too. Everybody cross your fingers. This is all just a big game of luck you know. Like rich people. They all inherited the money or won the lottery or something."

What you will see Apple say, especially to stockholders, "We realize our poor judgement in hard drive suppliers and are retooling our hard drive supplier choosing methods to ensure this doesn't happen again"

Putting the blame on another company for your own company's misfortune would be immature at best.

Bringing political orientation into this matter is asking for trouble - I wouldnt be so quick to associate feelings on personal responsibility with feelings on government
 
Why does Apple not just hire a few more engineers/developers/QA people? Sounds like they could use them anyway in the long term.


Maybe because it would divert to many resources away from the projects to train all these new people. A year or so ago perhaps they should/could have done so, but not now.
 
An Apple employee there told her not to buy the iphone when it comes out because its version 1.0.

If he worked for me he would be on a warning for making such a statement.


If a supplier can't supply a part or a programmer can't perform, it is Apple's fault.

So you are saying, in effect, that if Apple chooses a supplier who delivers good quality items on time, and then say 3 years down the road the supplier has problems and cant delver, its Apples fault.
 
Really---depends on restaurants/nightlife spend/mth !!

what i think is funnier is you lot are all willing to pay $75-$100 (before tax) a month for an iPhone!


Well, FIRST of all how does this compare to restaurant/nightlife spend per month?

I guess for most people the $75/mth first of all is NOT incremental.

The incremental portion is about ONLY $35-40/mth vs. current voice plans.

So, then one needs to make the tradeoff vs. the INCREMENTAL $35-40/mth!!

The upfront cost is a one-time cost and will be a barrier for some. Others will try to save that $500 in 4-6 months. So, after the first few months, if the Iphone works as advertised for web surfing and pinching and zooming into parts of the websites using multi-touch, I believe the Iphone will be a hit!!
 
if you were planning to sell it in July then maybe you'd have a problem but if you keep it for ten years or longer like most shareholders used to. You will have a very nice nest egg.


Well, I meant in the short term of course! Most things end up on top if you keep them long enough!
 
Why? Because Vista hit shelves 4 years late, first expected in 2003, and couldn't even manage to catch up to Tiger which was out in 2005? :p Or because Vista had so many features cut along the way, while Leopard hasn't? :) (Or maybe because Tiger is rock-solid, mature, and costs less than the less-capable Vista?)
Vista was firstly expected (not announced) to be shipped at the end of 2005. When XP was released, there were a lot of rumors about new operation system to be released somewhere at 2003. Finally it embodied as SP2 for XP. Firstly on September 2003 Bill Gates announced that Microsoft working on a new operation system.
Leopard was firstly expected at the end of 2006(2 years ago, when tiger was released). After that it've been said , that Leopard will be released at the beginning of 2007. At January Apple officially stated that that release date is a spring 2007. Now it October. I don't believe that leopard will be released at October. Best case - end of 2007
 
No Secret Feature...

Why would they be considering a rebate if they haven't even released the phone, and they're adding secret, valuable features?

They haven't released it because it's not baked, or it because it isn't doing the things its supposed to do, or it isn't doing them well. I'll bet it has something to do with the three major issues I see in the iPhone:

- no way I can type on a screen keyboard with my fat fingers
- no way will I accept a PDA that doesn't have access to my corp email/contacts/calendar
- no way am I going to spend a premium on an non-HSPDA, Edge phone
 
Poor Battery life would be a bummer.

Poor Battery life is the real iPhone killer. If this speculation is true, and the iPhone does have issues with battery life after the release...

The one thing that has made me nuts over the past few years, is the next gen phones that have worse battery life than my circa 1995 phone.
 
Leopard was firstly expected at the end of 2006(2 years ago, when tiger was released).

I've been closely following rumor sites for at least 2 years and I remember no such statement. Can you find a report on that one for me?

As for the early '07, that was an analyst fabrication. Apple never once stated that time frame... of that I am certain.

-Clive
 
... Answer A. - your fault. Conservative. You understand it's your job to choose the most reliable computer and have a backup plan. Your work is too important...

Hold on, I see a small issue with this post, let me correct it for you:

Answer A - Conservative - You blame your computer's failure on terrorists and launch a war with a coilition of the willing based on a handful of unsubstantiated intelligence reports from the CIA stating that the terrorist might have computer breaking WMDs in the backs of vans.

And if you don't support the war against the computer breaking terroritsts, then you are unpatriotic. Then, in order to help the new war on computer breaking terrorists, you decide its a good idea to lower taxes in favor of the upper class thereby screwing the rest of the nation.

In the meantime, you stand on a boat saying that we have won the war against the computer breakers, but we really didn't because a group of computer breaking insurgents are now attacking the supposed computer breaking terrorist nation.

Then you out a couple of CIA agents, screw the environment, try and privatize social security, and sell off national forest lands to your old logging buddies.

All in the name of freedom and justice and patriotism. And if you don't agree (or if you're gay, an athiest, or a democrat), then you're a computer breaking terrorist.

There, thats a bit better ;)

Oh wait, were't we supposed to be talking about Apple?
 
This looks rediculous now. hoo - rah...:mad:

They should've just put "Tiger" in that banner, and all would be well. :D

Poor Battery life is the real iPhone killer. If this speculation is true, and the iPhone does have issues with battery life after the release...

The one thing that has made me nuts over the past few years, is the next gen phones that have worse battery life than my circa 1995 phone.

Remember though, those older phones have far less powerful processors, and most have the most elemental of LCD displays. I'm willing to bet the battery lives of smart phones will go up as more energy efficient components are implemented.
 
battery issue.....

it would be interesting if there was a battery issue on this project. the original ipod had battery issues that were discovered right before it was released....... so apple engineers should be well practiced for this issue.
 
you know what? Thats EXACTLY what they should have done. If they wouldn't have demoed it in macworld, they could have silently pushed back the iphone, released leopard ahead of schedule, released the iphone when ever it was ready and BAM, instance all-the-hype-you-can-eat pr! And NO ONE would have known or cared that the iphone would have been pushed back.

But then we would have had to sit here and watch the "iphone almost ready?" rumors come through. can't win I guess.

Except for the FCC that leaks info and contractual agreements with AT&T :)
 
Why does Apple not just hire a few more engineers/developers/QA people? Sounds like they could use them anyway in the long term.

It takes time to train people. If you don't already work at Apple, chances are you are not familiar enough with neither the iPhone nor the inner workings of MacOS X enough to just jump onboard.
 
Apple "promised" iPhone in June. What is your evidence that Apple will not deliver that? Even this latest "dire" rumor says late June.

I'm not even sure Apple "promised" it. Saying "we expect to deliver in June" is not a promise - it's an estimate. People take estimates way too seriously.
 
That's something Microsoft and others have been criticized for. I do NOT want to see Apple make the same mistake. There's a book on this very mistake:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month

Doubling the number of programmers or engineers does NOT halve the time to complete a project--especially when they are dumped in after the fact. Throwing late staff additions at a product can actually reduce quality and make the project even more behind until features have to be cut.

"Assigning more programmers to a project running behind schedule will make it even later, due to the time required for the new programmers to learn about the project, as well as the increased communication overhead."

I was wondering when someone was going to bring up Brooks law...

Its the absolute truth...

All that said, the difference here is if the resources being added are already familar with the issues, or if they need time to ramp up.

Not having the details makes for bad speculation..
 
If that Smarthouse article is correct, these are major issues. If significant changes are made, it may need to go back to the FCC or what ever the goverment entity is. There is the potential for a major delay.
 
update 2 = too cheap to hire enough people

let me guess, the average apple engineer works 60+ hours a week under 'nornal circumstances'. if they really are not hiring extra manpower with all the new products the weekly work load might be pushing 70.

guess what, if i was there i would have walked a while ago because there really is more to life than work, even work you love.
 
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