Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Nice but I don't think we need it explained AGAIN about the diffrence in the networks. I would hope by now we all would know. We also know that Apple would need to agree to greate a CDMA chiped iPhone in order for it to work. We also know that the chances of that are VERY slim, and yes we all know that Apple and AT&T signed some type of exclusive deal for atleast 5 years. We should also know that CONSUMERS drive the market! A company ceates a market and offer a product within that market we as consumers have to decide whether to buy that product. Guess what if no one buys that product then ** ding ding ** there is no market for it. If we buy that product than ** YEP YOU GUESSED IT ** there is a market for it. Nothing will change change unless us as consumers make a choice. If verizon looses enough customer to a rival because they offer a better product and/or harware then I would guess verizon may want to reconcider when/if the contract ends with AT&T. Verizon does not and will not care until they loose money because of it. And the HDDVD war was not fought or decided completly by consumers but we sure played our part and I saw your tag line and yes there where dual players but I do "THINK BUT NOT SURE" that there was 2 diffrent lasers for each format not one for both so your explination would still be valid.

My point was not the outcome of the format war; my point was that one format would not work in the other player, just like one phone will not work on the other network. I've been following this and other threads about this topic and people keep coming in asking about this even though it has already been answered. I gave what I hoped to be an easy to understand explanation about why it won't work for those that might not understand the differences. If it did not come across that way, I apologize.

Anyway, many other phones models are made in a CDMA version and a GSM version and you never know what Apple will do next until Steve takes the stage. Its more likely that it won't happen for Verizon until the LTE rollout but we will just have to wait and see.

Like I said before, most of my family and friends are with Verizon and I too would love a Verizon iPhone. I will be first in line for a Verizon iPhone if the day ever comes. ;)
 
why is it hard to believe?

really what it comes down to is the bottom line. Verizon has opened up their network, and Apple is in business to make money. If all it requires is swapping out chips then i don't think the idea of an iPhone on the Verizon network is far fetched.

Of course there's the issue of the five year contract Apple has with Att. To that I say the money that will make from verizon customers will be 100 times more than what it would cost to opt out of their current contract with Att, so why not do it?

As for Verizon wanting to lock down the iPhone I say this, if it means keeping current customers, and possibly getting more, i'm sure they'll bend over backwards like Att.

I'm sure Jobs will do whatever it takes to drive the stock price up, so here's to a cdma iPhone in '08.
 
really what it comes down to is the bottom line. Verizon has opened up their network, and Apple is in business to make money. If all it requires is swapping out chips then i don't think the idea of an iPhone on the Verizon network is far fetched.

Of course there's the issue of the five year contract Apple has with Att. To that I say the money that will make from verizon customers will be 100 times more than what it would cost to opt out of their current contract with Att, so why not do it?

As for Verizon wanting to lock down the iPhone I say this, if it means keeping current customers, and possibly getting more, i'm sure they'll bend over backwards like Att.

I'm sure Jobs will do whatever it takes to drive the stock price up, so here's to a cdma iPhone in '08.

Except it's not nearly as simple as "GSM chip out, CDMA chip in". There's a huge software piece to it as well. Look at any phone that is released across various wireless standards...say, Treos and Blackberries. The firmware update for a GSM treo is different than the firmware update for a CDMA treo. Using one on the other would not work, or would brick the phone. Same with the blackberry.

Think of it like this: GSM is one type of skeleton key, CDMA is another. You need to know the right way to turn the key so the door will open; just having the key in the lock doesn't do ****. So without a capacity to know which way to turn the key, a CDMA chip will just sit there.

My point in all that is to explain that Apple would have to employ people to write CDMA code for the iPhone. It's not impossible, but it is very, very, very, very unlikely. The cost would be a lot more than just a manufacturing change, not to mention the legal whup-ass AT&T would hand them. And they're doing great in the unlocked GSM market AND the AT&T/other carrier partners market. If they were struggling I'd see it more, but if they're making money hand over fist now, and it doesn't require hiring a whole bunch of new code monkeys AND having special manufacturing for ONE market, then it's not as cut and dried as you think.
 
My point in all that is to explain that Apple would have to employ people to write CDMA code for the iPhone. It's not impossible, but it is very, very, very, very unlikely.

I don't think they're going to do a CDMA phone either. (Although they might've done a prototype back when they were doing negotiations with Verizon.)

Just don't make it out to be so difficult. After all, you could use the same argument against going to a fairly new 3G chipset, and we know they're going to do that quickly. Companies generally contract something like this out to someone who does it all the time.
 
I don't think they're going to do a CDMA phone either. (Although they might've done a prototype back when they were doing negotiations with Verizon.)

Just don't make it out to be so difficult. After all, you could use the same argument against going to a fairly new 3G chipset, and we know they're going to do that quickly. Companies generally contract something like this out to someone who does it all the time.

Fair enough. I was being so hard on how difficult it would be because I was coming at it from a business standpoint. Yes, 3G requires new software too, but that's almost a universal standard. They can sell the same phone everywhere. CDMA requires they AGAIN change things, and I just don't see the incremental sales benefit being high enough to make it worth it...what will they sell, another 300,000 units if we're being really optimistic? That's a lot, but if they can take their shiny new 3G phone to new countries and move 1,000,000 units, all without having to lift a finger in terms of extra software, that's more cost-effective.

But you're right, it's not technically difficult. It's really more fiscally difficult.
 
Leave the Hardware and Software out of it.

Fair enough. I was being so hard on how difficult it would be because I was coming at it from a business standpoint. Yes, 3G requires new software too, but that's almost a universal standard. They can sell the same phone everywhere. CDMA requires they AGAIN change things, and I just don't see the incremental sales benefit being high enough to make it worth it...what will they sell, another 300,000 units if we're being really optimistic? That's a lot, but if they can take their shiny new 3G phone to new countries and move 1,000,000 units, all without having to lift a finger in terms of extra software, that's more cost-effective.

But you're right, it's not technically difficult. It's really more fiscally difficult.

Is more possible than we are making it out to be. I would say that they already did it if they went to verizon first. I don't think they will but we are all forgetting one very important thing! Verizon would have to give up allot of hardware control as far as support and sales is concerned. Also let us not forget about that lovely $20 Device initiation fee from verizon. How would they justify that if we activate thru iTunes?

Both would have to once again agree and we all no neither company is going to give. It is 100% possible to produce a CDMA iPhone and I do not think the cost would be as astronomical as we think because they probably already have the design and the coding for it. Not mention most other CellPhone makers already do it! Motorola, LG etc. all make cell phones for diffrent carriers. This is not uncommon. BTW for all you fellow Verizon users, I used the HTC Touch and the dumbest thing I have ever seen! Don't waste your money.
 
Is there a link which points to proof of a five year contract with AT&T or is this a mass assumption?

It's too bad that for so many of us, we must choose between either a great phone or a great network. As much as I dislike Verizon for so many reasons, AT&T's network just doesn't compare.
 
Is there a link which points to proof of a five year contract with AT&T or is this a mass assumption?

All ATT has ever publicly said is, it's a "multi-year" contract.

The "five years" came from a USAToday column. At the same time, another paper had said "two years".

For some reason, iPhone fans chose to go with the five years. Which is weird, because it's not a badge of honor to have a five year exclusive... quite the opposite; it would mean that Apple had to give a big concession and not sell to the other 2/3 of the US market for a long time.

Bear in mind that the contract was done in the summer of 2006. So my guess is that Apple had to sell the phone by July 1, 2007 for some reason, or give up more concessions. That's the only thing that explains to me why they rushed it out.
 
All ATT has ever publicly said is, it's a "multi-year" contract.

The "five years" came from a USAToday column. At the same time, another paper had said "two years".

For some reason, iPhone fans chose to go with the five years. Which is weird, because it's not a badge of honor to have a five year exclusive... quite the opposite; it would mean that Apple had to give a big concession and not sell to the other 2/3 of the US market for a long time.

Bear in mind that the contract was done in the summer of 2006. So my guess is that Apple had to sell the phone by July 1, 2007 for some reason, or give up more concessions. That's the only thing that explains to me why they rushed it out.

Thanks for clearing that up. Your responses in this thread have been refreshingly coherent and informative.
 
Correct. Apple and AT&T signed an exclusive 5 year contract in the US prior to the launch of the iPhone in June 2007. On a side note, I have to wonder if Apple has an out clause. I would think that one was structured into the contract but I'm just speculating.

I see many wondering if Apple has an out clause...but no one seems to ponder the other possibility, Does ATT? Given the mass unlocking , I'd bet that ATT would say that Steve's new cell way is a decided failure. Given the rumors that ATT is looking at subsidizing for the 3G iPhone....maybe they would welcome a way out or at least changes in the terms. This could lead to a multi carrier situation in the US just as it seems to be developing in other country's. Of course the main issue here in the US, is that without a CDMA iPhone there are no other carriers that would help much. T-Mobile won't work unless the 3G iPhone has support for AWS. The smart money IF there were a CDMA iPhone would be Sprint not Verizon. Sprint needs it....Verizon just wants it. But both of the CMDA carriers seem to be trying to build their own next gen phone.....See the HTC Diamond and Raphael.....
 
Delusional?

I think it's time for people to take a step back and remember that we're on the outside here - show an ounce of humility an admit to yourself that as an outsider, you can't possibly know what's going to happen. In fact, much of the argument in this thread has been based on little more than assumptions about things like contract length and what Verizon considers to be in their best interests.

So stop the name calling, get over yourself and allow the possibility that you don't know what's going to happen with the future of the iPhone. There are lots of good arguments on both sides, but if experience has taught me one thing, it's that the decisions of major tech companies can be quite surprising and unpredictable. Consider these declarations, all of which I've seen on these forums:

  • Apple will never make a phone.
  • Apple will never switch to Intel.
  • The HD format war will be long and drawn out.
  • No way will Apple release an ultraportable.
  • Apple bla bla bla bla.

I'm always disturbed by people's willingness to make bold declarations about things they can't possibly know. It becomes even more gross when they start calling names like spoiled children.
 
Yadmonkey, that is an awesome post. Too often we all get caught up in our opinions, our views, and we forget that we're all just playing pundit through the anonymity of the internet.

Seriously, well written advice. Good job.
 
first of all you have to remember that verizon said NO in the first place because apple wanted too much control over the iphone. second, apple would have to make a separate iphone JUST for verizon. currently they make one iphone that they can sell around the world.

so 2 things would have to happen, verizon would have to cave in to apples demand for control and apple would have to determine it is worthwhile to make a separate iphone for ~1/4 of the US market. sticking with GSM only allows apple to have the best of both worlds, sell to the biggest carrier in the US and the majority of the the world with just one device.

dream on.
 
Since we're all throwing our guesses in, here is mine...

My guess is that Apple won't make a CDMA iPhone either. Verizon has announced that they will be upgrading their network to G4 over the coming years meaning that the US based CDMA network will be pretty much dead. A CDMA iPhone would be for a small US market that will be forced to switched to G4 anyway as soon as the network becomes available.

25% of the US mobile phone market is Verizon, but how many of them would switch to an iPhone? Not everyone has $200-$400 laying around for a phone. Couple that with the fact that in the somewhat near future (2-4 years) the iPhone will be open to all carriers AND Verizon will likely have a new G4 network. The result: I don't think you will see a CDMA version of the iPhone.

Just my opinions, but from a business perspective it doesn't seem to make much sense for either company to jump through the hoops for a product (iphone) & platform (Verizon CDMA) that are going through a fair amount of change. The reward just doesn't seem to be that great - unless your a fan of planned obscelence.
 
first of all you have to remember that verizon said NO in the first place because apple wanted too much control over the iphone. second, apple would have to make a separate iphone JUST for verizon. currently they make one iphone that they can sell around the world.

so 2 things would have to happen, verizon would have to cave in to apples demand for control and apple would have to determine it is worthwhile to make a separate iphone for ~1/4 of the US market. sticking with GSM only allows apple to have the best of both worlds, sell to the biggest carrier in the US and the majority of the the world with just one device.

dream on.

You also have to remember that Apple approached a variety of carriers simultaneously for other countries. Verizon likely ASSUMED they were first (them or the media). Apple didn't say anything about it, therefore we can't assume anything about it. Stop talking as though you know everything because YOU DON'T.
 
You also have to remember that Apple approached a variety of carriers simultaneously for other countries. Verizon likely ASSUMED they were first (them or the media). Apple didn't say anything about it, therefore we can't assume anything about it. Stop talking as though you know everything because YOU DON'T.

based on your posts in the t-mobile 3G thread your credibility here is pretty low. which carrier gets the deal in the US market has little bearing on who apple deals with over seas. the point is, verizon was offered the iphone and they turned it down. let me see if i can spell this out for you since you continue to lack any form of reading comprehension.

While Cingular (er, AT&T, but you know what we mean) couldn't seem prouder of its iPhone exclusivity, apparently Apple's first choice was Verizon, but the two companies couldn't agree on a deal that worked for both companies. "We said no." Said Jim Gerace, a VZW VP. "We have nothing bad to say about the Apple iPhone. We just couldn't reach a deal that was mutually beneficial." Talks began as far back as two years ago, but Apple's demands were steep. They also give us an idea of what exactly is behind the Apple / Cingular agreement: Apple wanted a percentage of monthly service fees, control over distribution that would limit iPhone sales to Apple and Verizon stores, and even some control over service and support for iPhone customers. "They would have been stepping in between us and our customers to the point where we would have almost had to take a back seat ... on hardware and service support," say Gerace. Cingular doesn't quite see it that way, so perhaps Apple changed its conditions a bit when it started courting Cingy. Says Mark Siegel, a Cingular spokesman, "I don't want to leave the impression that these (iPhone) customers are not ours. They are." Mark also mentioned that Cingular would field calls related to wireless service, and that "We think this is a win for Apple, and it is a win for Cingular." Whether consumers -- who would have presumably had a fair shot at an EV-DO iPhone with Verizon as a service provider -- will win in the end is yet to be seen.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/29/verizon-passed-up-apple-iphone-deal/

its not "assumptions" its called a verizon vp press statement. oh im sorry steve jobs didnt say it so it must be a lie. :rolleyes:

also:
https://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/29/verizon-rejected-iphone-deal-due-to-apples-terms/
 
well verizon would probably disable the iPod or something stupid anyway. they dont deserve it.

lol very true. verizon would most likely want vcast, not itunes, to be on the phone. i cant imagine verizon being thrilled about putting a competing music store on one of their phones.
 
lol very true. verizon would most likely want vcast, not itunes, to be on the phone. i cant imagine verizon being thrilled about putting a competing music store on one of their phones.

Heh.

A lot of us were not very thrilled at having to put iTunes and its incessant updates on our computers.

I like devices that don't require a computer to activate, but lets me transfer anything I want to/from any computer with it.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.