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Check out the info on palmgoon.com and http://www.youtube.com/user/PalmPreForumDotOrg

The iPhone is in for rough times ahead.

Yes. All that turbulence from the hot air coming from other companies...

Will be interesting to see what announcements Palm has though, as hinted at from the Intro to d7 (well, after pimping Apple and the iPhone for 3 minutes, they had to go "sorry, they're not here, but we bring you Microsoft & Palm instead").

To balance it up slightly - kdarling has had a point on the last page - the iPhone is lacking this (thus far - anyone care to wager/estimate the chances of more multitouch gestures for the iPhone coming with OS 3.0?)

pre-gesture-guide-007-500x646.jpg


If the Pre can do recurring reminders, with decent flexibility with dates, that'd be a big plus... (currently even Things can't do that).
 
How do the cards reduce screen space? They are only small when flipping through them so you can see the other apps to the left and right.

I was wrong about this. From the video that I saw, it appeared that you could work with the cards while they were in the switcher view, so I thought that was the standard view.

And the gesture area gives you less visual feedback? Things slide left and right just like the iPhone and but you even get the left and right hand gesture to see. And on top of that white LEDs trail behind your gesture. That's more visual queues than the iPhone gives you.

As I said, the gesture area is less intuitive and gives fewer visual cues as to its current purpose. Take the back gesture on the Pre. On an iPhone there is a button labeled "Back" or something similar. There is no similar labeling or visual indicator as to the purpose of the gesture area in that situation.

If or when Apple follows some of Palm's new features you'll be the first one to be saying how great they are.
And I typed all of this out on my iPod touch. I love apple but I'm not afraid to admit it when another company has a good idea.

I've never said that any features of the iPhone are great compared to the Pre, so I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth in a thinly veiled attempt to call me a fanboy. There are lots of good ideas in the Pre, but there are going to be some trade offs.

I don't think it is fair to compare a demo against a year old iPhone and claim the Pre to be better.

But I do agree; we'll have to see how it works in practice.

Yep.
 
As I said, the gesture area is less intuitive and gives fewer visual cues as to its current purpose. Take the back gesture on the Pre. On an iPhone there is a button labeled "Back" or something similar. There is no similar labeling or visual indicator as to the purpose of the gesture area in that situation.

Yes, but the gesture area usage is easily learned.

Just as with the iPhone's so-called "intuitive UI", which can be nothing of the sort until a person has been shown what they can do...

Would anyone guess the "pinch" gesture unless they were told about it? Extremely doubtful, because no other consumer device had it before. But once shown, its USAGE is easy.

Same with the jiggling icons on the homepage. Common users come to forums confused, because they can't figure out how they triggered it. But once told, it becomes "intuitive".

Heck, I saw a person get stuck going back on the iPhone, until the back button disappeared. They had no idea what to do, until I pointed out clicking the Home button to exit the app. It's not a visually or physically consistent idea to some.
 
Yes, but the gesture area usage is easily learned.

Just as with the iPhone's so-called "intuitive UI", which can be nothing of the sort until a person has been shown what they can do...

Would anyone guess the "pinch" gesture unless they were told about it? Extremely doubtful, because no other consumer device had it before. But once shown, its USAGE is easy.

Same with the jiggling icons on the homepage. Common users come to forums confused, because they can't figure out how they triggered it. But once told, it becomes "intuitive".

Heck, I saw a person get stuck going back on the iPhone, until the back button disappeared. They had no idea what to do, until I pointed out clicking the Home button to exit the app. It's not a visually or physically consistent idea to some.

If a behavior needs to be taught, it is not intuitive by definition. I never claimed that an iPhone was more intuitive than a Pre. I just said that in this one example the iPhone is more intuitive than a Pre. My point was that there are going to be trade offs.
 
Check out the info on palmgoon.com and http://www.youtube.com/user/PalmPreForumDotOrg

The iPhone is in for rough times ahead.

"The iPhone is in for rough times ahead" Ha, you're funny! I just previewed the Pre in Spain and I can tell you that it's very heavy/overweight (meaning the processor can not keep up with your request) and it's buggy as all hell!!! Reminds me of the Blackberry Storm when it came out.
 
Multi-Tasking: The biggest advantage the Palm Pre has over the iPhone. You can run multiple applications at once and seamlessly switch between them. The iPhone can only one run app at a time.
This is not completely true. The iPhone OS supports multitasking of the bundled apps because they have been extensively tested for with each other and coded for relatively low CPU/battery usage. As a developer of business desktop software, I can tell you that it is very difficult to write bug free code of a high level of complexity and one can easily make a mistake that takes up a lot of processor time. I would not want to see a third party app running in the background locking up the UI because had a memory leak or spawned a runaway process. Multi-tasking is fine on a desktop platform but it does not really make sense on a mobile platform outside of utility functions like a built in music player bundled with the OS.
Syncing: Another shining area of the Pre. Palm calls their technology Synergy. Basically, it takes contact information from ALMOST everything your heart could desire (Facebook, Google, Outlook) and puts them all together as one. So when someone changes their phone number on their Facebook account, it changes in your phonebook.
Again, that is your subjective opinion. I think that would be confusing to a non-geek and people might not want to mash up everything into one ball of wax. That sounds like a feature looking for a use case. AKA featuritis.
Network: Sprint has a faster and larger 3G network than AT&T, but that's it. As far as cell service for calling, AT&T probably has the advantage.
Nobody outside of the coverage area in the US cares about some American provider. It is irrelevant to the device and the fact that the Pre is launching as a CDMA device means that it is useless outside of the US and possibly roaming in Canada. The primary use of a phone is for calling. :rolleyes: Also consider that CDMA phones usually do not come with WiFi which is often much faster while GSM based devices have no restriction on offering WiFi features.
Pricing of Phone/Plan: The Pre is $200 after a $100 rebate. The iPhone is $200 and you don't need to fill out a rebate form.
Sprint's plan is better, hands down. The iPhone's plan starts at $70/month for 450 minutes, unlimited data, and that's it.
Again, that is absolutely meaningless to non-Americans. You are comparing service providers when I thought this was about devices. Also, unlimited data is never limited and I've yet to break into the 500 MB of transfer range on my Fido 6GB per month plan.

Notifications: I used to think the iPhone's notification system was the best a notification system could be. But the Pre does it better. Instead of making you dismiss a text message notification, it just scales your current app down slightly and puts the notification at the bottom, not unlike a weather warning on tv. Very smart.
That is your subjective opinion. It seems cheesy to me. Why should the app scale at all? Is it lacking overlapping windows?

Gestures/Multi-Touch: Both the iPhone and the Pre have fantastic gestures and support similar Multi-Touch capabilities (pinch to zoom etc), but again, the Pre takes it a little bit further. Instead of having to press back/forward buttons in the browser, you just swipe left/right, respectively, on the gesture area of the Pre. This is just one example. I should also note that the Pre's gesture area has white LEDs behind it that trail behind your gestures. Kind of like Quicksilver's Abracadabra for OS X. Very nice touch.
So how is a complete noob supposed to figure that out in the browser? That gesture area at the button below the screen seems a but unintuitive to me.

App Store: At first, you'd think the iPhone is a sure winner for this. It has a very impressive app store and it's so easy to find an app you want an install it. Apple pioneered this; it's undeniable.
But the deal breaker is in the SDK. Don't get me wrong, XCode is a great tool that apple provides to all of its developers, but the iPhone uses Cocoa and C++, which are both great, but not as widely used as HTML, Javascript, and CSS, which is what the Pre uses.
You have got to be joking? Are you really serious? I'm guessing that you have never developed software in your life. By software, I mean not just farting around with dreamweaver to create a webpage with some javascript on it. Before the SDK came out, Apple had a.... wait for it.... web based SDK that allowed you to create web based apps with the Apple look and feel complete with touch and some gesture support.
http://www.apple.com/webapps/whatarewebapps.html
http://developer.apple.com/safari/mobile.php

By the way, I hope you are not suggesting that people who have invested in the app store go out and dump their iPhone for a Pre after downgrading from a GSM provider to a CDMA provider effectively throwing away all of their investment in apps.

Right now, it seems like the Pre is a better phone.
The iPhone is a better phone because as it is a GSM device, you can make calls virtually anywhere in the world with it. It also has WiFi which no CDMA devices seem to have.

But I also have to say that everything I've written about the Pre has not been tested in the wild. So we'll have to wait and see how it truly works once it's released (June 6th); not just in tech blog's youtube videos and Palm's walkthroughs. For instance, maybe the Pre's screen isn't totally scratch proof like the iPhone's screen is.
I see. So you are gushing over a bunch of specs and videos and have never even used the device but you are convinced that it is a better phone. :rolleyes:
 
Nobody outside of the coverage area in the US cares about some American provider. It is irrelevant to the device and the fact that the Pre is launching as a CDMA device means that it is useless outside of the US....

The Pre is also reportedly coming to ATT, either as itself, and/or as the non-slider Eos model. ATT's CEO has said that he wants the Pre.

So how is a complete noob supposed to figure that out in the browser? That gesture area at the button below the screen seems a but unintuitive to me.

As contrasted to what? Hitting the top bar on Safari to scroll to the top? Using two fingers in special HTML areas to scroll?

Let's skip intuitiveness comparisons for now, please.

The iPhone is a better phone because as it is a GSM device, you can make calls virtually anywhere in the world with it. It also has WiFi which no CDMA devices seem to have.

Unfortunately, unlike other GSM devices, Apple has seen fit to cripple a major feature, by locking their phone to a single carrier's SIM in most countries.

And yes, CDMA devices have WiFi, especially the WM models. It's just that they needed it less with EVDO coverage, as compared to ATT's 3G holes, and makers left it out to conserve battery.
 
This is not completely true. The iPhone OS supports multitasking of the bundled apps because they have been extensively tested for with each other and coded for relatively low CPU/battery usage. As a developer of business desktop software, I can tell you that it is very difficult to write bug free code of a high level of complexity and one can easily make a mistake that takes up a lot of processor time. I would not want to see a third party app running in the background locking up the UI because had a memory leak or spawned a runaway process. Multi-tasking is fine on a desktop platform but it does not really make sense on a mobile platform outside of utility functions like a built in music player bundled with the OS.
Thats laughable, in order to defend apple, you are making up facts and statistics.

multi-tasking doesnt make sense on a mobile device? how exactly a people can do multiple things altogether and switch between them at will doesn't make sense?

hard to write apps? how exactly all other handset can do it? just apple can't? I guess all app developers for other mobile OSes are smarter than iPhone app developers?

You are just doing typical apple fanboy stuff. "anything apple can't do is useless". Thats just ridiculous logic.
The iPhone is a better phone because as it is a GSM device, you can make calls virtually anywhere in the world with it. It also has WiFi which no CDMA devices seem to have.
BS, Pre has wi-fi, did you not read any spec about the pre?

PS, pre is coming to verizon and att on GSM, in 6-12 months.
 
hard to write apps? how exactly all other handset can do it? just apple can't? I guess all app developers for other mobile OSes are smarter than iPhone app developers?
Any phone OSs that allow for multiple third party apps at once will show potential significant battery life reduction. Why? Because you cannot stop developers from doing things that eat as close to 100% CPU as you'll let them, and phone batteries are limited.

I'm programmed Nokia Symbian apps. I'm pretty familiar with Android. I've written for the iPhone. Unless you've tapped into some unknown-to-me phone OS with unknown-to-me third party master developers, you're just plain wrong.

You can allow multiple third party apps to run at once, and it will cripple your phone's battery life until a way is found to ensure non-primary apps have very limited potential for CPU and resource use.
 
Any phone OSs that allow for multiple third party apps at once will show potential significant battery life reduction. Why? Because you cannot stop developers from doing things that eat as close to 100% CPU as you'll let them, and phone batteries are limited.

I'm programmed Nokia Symbian apps. I'm pretty familiar with Android. I've written for the iPhone. Unless you've tapped into some unknown-to-me phone OS with unknown-to-me third party master developers, you're just plain wrong.

You can allow multiple third party apps to run at once, and it will cripple your phone's battery life until a way is found to ensure non-primary apps have very limited potential for CPU and resource use.

You're a moderator.....??? You can't be serious...
 
Any phone OSs that allow for multiple third party apps at once will show potential significant battery life reduction. Why? Because you cannot stop developers from doing things that eat as close to 100% CPU as you'll let them, and phone batteries are limited.

As you know, that's possible even without multitasking. Any developer, on any device, can write a program that consumes cpu cycles for either good or bad reasons.

Conversely, well written programs are also easy to do, and don't consume any more than they need to.

The user response is time honored. If you notice that an app eats your battery, you either stop using it or put up with it. And if you're savvy, send a note to the developer and tell them about it.

Of course, some phones have replaceable and/or larger batteries available. Like if I think I'm going to be Slinging a lot, I'll pop in my double-size battery. If my daughter's going to be watching her cartoons, I'll even bring along a spare.
 
The Boy Genius Report has a first hands-on look at the Palm Pre and reports, "There’s a real plasticky aura about it. Additionally, things aren’t looking good for that QWERTY either... When you try and type on the top row of keys, your finger hits the bottom part of the front piece and on top of that, you often hit multiple keys at the same time while typing. It’s actually really frustrating and doesn’t bode well."
 
The Boy Genius Report has a first hands-on look at the Palm Pre and reports, "There’s a real plasticky aura about it. Additionally, things aren’t looking good for that QWERTY either... When you try and type on the top row of keys, your finger hits the bottom part of the front piece and on top of that, you often hit multiple keys at the same time while typing. It’s actually really frustrating and doesn’t bode well."

But they also said the device feels great in the hand and that the screen is beautiful and responsive and a joy to use.

Let's be fair here.
 
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