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iPhone VS Palm Pre

slapppy said:
For Pete's sake, the iPhone multitask just fine. Look I'll play Need For Speed Undercover ( which the Pre OS cannot even dream of being capable of ) while I listen to my iPod part. In the meantime these services are running in the background, syncing Mail, Contacts, Calendar, various sensors, SMS, oh the phone portion... seems to me the iPhone multitask just fine.
Click to expand...

So, I start the Contacts app, wait the obligatory 2-5 seconds for the app to start, then do a search. Once I find the contact I'm looking for, I tap on the address to see where this guy lives. Up pops the map app. Wonderful.

Ok, now I want to call him. What do I do... let's see... how do I get back to the Contacts screen.... Where's the "back" button.... hmmm.... Wait... you mean there isn't one?? Darn.

So, I press the "Home" button, wait a second or so for the launcher screen to appear. Then I launch the Contacts app again, wait the obligatory 2-5 seconds for the app to start, then do a search.....

Yea. The iPhone's multitasking is just peachy.
 
iWork said:
Re-read my post. Voice will prioritize, thus no missed calls. Why is this so difficult to understand?

As for you anecdote, I can believe it. But, my experience is the opposite of yours in NYC. Sprint >> AT&T in NYC. There is no definitive best carrier, even within a general area.
Click to expand...

If voice interrupts all data use on Sprint and Pre, then no problem other than that the data stops. And yes, very minor issue.

I was going off my experience with EDGE on AT&T and the original iPhone. If streaming Pandora on EDGE, voice can't interrupt because the chip is already in use - incoming calls are simply ignored by the phone. With iPhone 3G, Pandora pauses upon receiving the phone call.

And I agree about the carriers, each has their strengths and weaknesses. And what's good in San Diego may suck in NYC...
 
PatrickRS said:
So, I start the Contacts app, wait the obligatory 2-5 seconds for the app to start, then do a search. Once I find the contact I'm looking for, I tap on the address to see where this guy lives. Up pops the map app. Wonderful.

Ok, now I want to call him. What do I do... let's see... how do I get back to the Contacts screen.... Where's the "back" button.... hmmm.... Wait... you mean there isn't one?? Darn.

So, I press the "Home" button, wait a second or so for the launcher screen to appear. Then I launch the Contacts app again, wait the obligatory 2-5 seconds for the app to start, then do a search.....

Yea. The iPhone's multitasking is just peachy.
Click to expand...

Stop it, you don't even have an iPhone or know how to use one. Even if your contact has no phone # bringing it up on the Map you can call from there by simply tapping the > pick the # you want to call. Quit the BS. iPhone Multitask. It can multitask unlike the BS you people keep spouting that it can't.
 
PatrickRS said:
So, I start the Contacts app, wait the obligatory 2-5 seconds for the app to start, then do a search. Once I find the contact I'm looking for, I tap on the address to see where this guy lives. Up pops the map app. Wonderful.

Ok, now I want to call him. What do I do... let's see... how do I get back to the Contacts screen.... Where's the "back" button.... hmmm.... Wait... you mean there isn't one?? Darn.

So, I press the "Home" button, wait a second or so for the launcher screen to appear. Then I launch the Contacts app again, wait the obligatory 2-5 seconds for the app to start, then do a search.....

Yea. The iPhone's multitasking is just peachy.
Click to expand...

I'd imagine you'd hit the home button, swipe right to go to search, find your contact, and go from there. It is annoying that there isn't a way to go back once you've selected the person's address, and it's gone into map. However, search will have kept your last search and results, and it'd much more responsive than 2-5 seconds to start - swipe and it's there, instantly.

What you want to do, is to go into maps directly, then search for your contact there, saving you going through contacts in the first step, then using a quick right swipe from the home page to search for the contact, hit the number and go.
 
t0mat0 said:
I'd imagine you'd hit the home button, swipe right to go to search, find your contact, and go from there. It is annoying that there isn't a way to go back once you've selected the person's address, and it's gone into map. However, search will have kept your last search and results, and it'd much more responsive than 2-5 seconds to start - swipe and it's there, instantly.

What you want to do, is to go into maps directly, then search for your contact there, saving you going through contacts in the first step, then using a quick right swipe from the home page to search for the contact, hit the number and go.
Click to expand...

Don't feed the troll. He's full of of it. If you hit the address on your contacts, it brings it right up to Maps, right there you can tap the blue > symbol and the number is right there. Tap and it dials. No swiping, no home button to press.
 
slapppy said:
Don't feed the troll. He's full of of it. If you hit the address on your contacts, it brings it right up to Maps, right there you can tap the blue > symbol and the number is right there. Tap and it dials. No swiping, no home button to press.
Click to expand...

The problem he attempted to describe is real: the iPhone's lack of context and a way to easily and naturally go back up the chain of events that led us somewhere. For instance:

- Surfing the web. Get a text message. Have to quit Safari to send a reply. Then go start Safari again to get back to the web page we were reading... oops, probably have to reload the page, too.

- Search results. Use Maps to look for steak restaurants nearby. Choose a likely candidate. Click on its web link to go look at the menu. Hate the food, let's try another found restaurant. Oh wait, no back button. We're in Safari now, not Maps. Have to start Maps again.

- App search results. Using a job search app. Click on map link for job. Oops, went to Maps, now have to manually find and restart the job search app again and hope it remembered results.

- Doing anything when a call or future notification comes in. Go to the correct app, do what we need, then find and restart what we were doing beforehand. Really hate this if the game we're playing, or app we were using, doesn't save state.

- Ditto for any time that we're interrupted or have to switch major apps via a one-way link. This is NOT the way people naturally work. We are used to going back instantly to what we were doing. This is all so much easier on other smartphones.
 
I'm very biased. I'm sticking with Apple. If Apple makes it, I have to have it. End of story.
 
kdarling said:
The problem he attempted to describe is real: the iPhone's lack of context and a way to easily and naturally go back up the chain of events that led us somewhere. For instance:

- Surfing the web. Get a text message. Have to quit Safari to send a reply. Then go start Safari again to get back to the web page we were reading... oops, probably have to reload the page, too.

- Search results. Use Maps to look for steak restaurants nearby. Choose a likely candidate. Click on its web link to go look at the menu. Hate the food, let's try another found restaurant. Oh wait, no back button. We're in Safari now, not Maps. Have to start Maps again.

- App search results. Using a job search app. Click on map link for job. Oops, went to Maps, now have to manually find and restart the job search app again and hope it remembered results.

- Doing anything when a call or future notification comes in. Go to the correct app, do what we need, then find and restart what we were doing beforehand. Really hate this if the game we're playing, or app we were using, doesn't save state.

- Ditto for any time that we're interrupted or have to switch major apps via a one-way link. This is NOT the way people naturally work. We are used to going back instantly to what we were doing. This is all so much easier on other smartphones.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't want a stupid back button in every window. That would clutter up the OS. How hard is it to press one button to get to the home screen? Does it really take long at all? I just tried it... it takes less than a second to get to the home screen. This isn't a smart phone... it's a tiny computer. You don't have a back button on your computer apps do you? Why does everyone want the iPhone to be just like every other phone? I personally like the way the iPhone is.
 
TheSpaz said:
I wouldn't want a stupid back button in every window. That would clutter up the OS. How hard is it to press one button to get to the home screen? Does it really take long at all? I just tried it... it takes less than a second to get to the home screen. This isn't a smart phone... it's a tiny computer. You don't have a back button on your computer apps do you? Why does everyone want the iPhone to be just like every other phone? I personally like the way the iPhone is.
Click to expand...

Actually the previous poster's complaints are a lot of my complains also. Why does Safari always have to reload every page when I go back to it, either when coming back to Safari from using other Apps, or when I select that tab from within Safari. Doesn't seem so 'elegant' to me.

It's not so much that we 'want it to be like every phone', it's more like "well this phone is almost perfect, but there are some little things...".

I really hope Apple is studying the few Palm Pre action vids on the internet like everyone else. If they can match webOS' speed, redraw rates, intuitiveness, and function, Apple will remain ahead.
 
chriszzz said:
When talking about the SDK you left out the fact that as a WebOS, the Pre will be limited in terms of 3D performance.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. The Pre has its own JavaScript library so Palm can conceivably add 3D support there. Also, if Adobe creates a Flash plug-in for the Pre, developers can use that. Earlier this year, Google and Mozilla both pushed forward plans for having 3D web graphics. Assuming Palm uses a good rendering engine (WebKit seems to be very popular right now), this could be added sometime in the next couple years. Remember- it took a full year for Apple to open up the iPhone. By this time next year, the Pre could have full OpenGL support.
 
kdarling said:
The problem he attempted to describe is real: the iPhone's lack of context and a way to easily and naturally go back up the chain of events that led us somewhere. For instance:
Click to expand...

A way to go "back" is not the proper paradigm. In an application, going back makes sense, but a device wide "back" would be clumsy.

The iPhone has some great visuals for conveying moving forward, moving back, opening and closing. You make it sound more confusing than it is. The home button takes you to the "dock" or the application launch pad - it takes about 60 seconds to understand this paradigm.

All the iPhone needs is better state retention and faster application opening. The rumors of more RAM and processing power in the next iPhone would greatly improve this. According to John Gruber (who usually has reliable sources) the apparent improvement is near double.

The next improvement would be the 3rd party developers ensuring that their apps retain state.
 
TheSpaz said:
I wouldn't want a stupid back button in every window. That would clutter up the OS. How hard is it to press one button to get to the home screen? Does it really take long at all? I just tried it... it takes less than a second to get to the home screen. This isn't a smart phone... it's a tiny computer. You don't have a back button on your computer apps do you? Why does everyone want the iPhone to be just like every other phone? I personally like the way the iPhone is.
Click to expand...

that's what's so great about the Pre. There's no back button to clutter anything up. instead there's a gesture area right next to the home button. you simply swipe left or right to go back or forward. and to go back to the launcher/app switcher you just press the home button.
You simply can't deny this single feature being better than how the iphone does it.
 
skwoytek said:
All the iPhone needs is better state retention and faster application opening.
Click to expand...

This gets it exactly right and is something I've been trying to explain (less coherently than this post does) in various iphone/pre threads for a while. If iphone apps opened instantly in the state you'd left them in then you'd have most of the benefit of multitasking without the hit to performance and battery life.

Since you can't actually view more than one app at a time on a 3" screen, actual "multitasking" is only relevant to a small number of apps. Obviously there are a few apps that wouldn't benefit from anything but true multitasking - Pandora is the easiest example (as demonstrated by the fact that the ipod app has been able to run side by side with another app since day one). But for everything else, what multitasking on a phone really comes down to is the ability to access an app quickly and in the state you left it in.
 
JPIndustrie said:
Actually the previous poster's complaints are a lot of my complains also. Why does Safari always have to reload every page when I go back to it, either when coming back to Safari from using other Apps, or when I select that tab from within Safari. Doesn't seem so 'elegant' to me.
Click to expand...

Why? Because of the limited amount of RAM available to the device. Safari only reloads a page if it needed to clear RAM for another use.

I really hope Apple is studying the few Palm Pre action vids on the internet like everyone else. If they can match webOS' speed, redraw rates, intuitiveness, and function, Apple will remain ahead.
Click to expand...

How would you have any sort of comparison of the WebOS speed or redraw rates? Are you really visually comparing Pre demos to an iPhone on year old hardware? The Pre will be competing with iPhone OS 3.0 on new hardware.

Also, redraw rates? I don't think I've seen anyone complain about redraw rates on an iPhone. Maybe this means something different than you think it means.

As far as intuitiveness and function -- I don't think Apple is looking to Palm for cues in these areas.

brent0saurus said:
that's what's so great about the Pre. There's no back button to clutter anything up. instead there's a gesture area right next to the home button. you simply swipe left or right to go back or forward. and to go back to the launcher/app switcher you just press the home button.
You simply can't deny this single feature being better than how the iphone does it.
Click to expand...

The concept may be better for transitioning between apps, but we will have to see how it works in practice. Believe it or not, there are trade offs. The card concept reduces the screen space available to the app and adds more visual distraction. Which is important on such a small screen. Especially, since the Pre screen is even smaller than the iPhone. The gesture area is less intuitive and gives less visual feedback to its current purpose. These may very well be acceptable trade offs, but it is not unequivocal.
 
slapppy said:
Stop it, you don't even have an iPhone or know how to use one. Even if your contact has no phone # bringing it up on the Map you can call from there by simply tapping the > pick the # you want to call. Quit the BS. iPhone Multitask. It can multitask unlike the BS you people keep spouting that it can't.
Click to expand...

You're right, I got the scenario wrong. What had happened to me is that when I went to the map, it couldn't find the address (a reasonably common occurrence), so there was no blue ">" arrow to click to make the call. I had to go back through the launch / search cycle again.

Even so, the reason it does work in the situation you describe is because the Map app has decided to re-implement some of the capability of the Contacts app. I note that you cannot, say, edit the contact item when you get to it from the Map app this way, or do many other operations possible from the native Contacts app. That's because you aren't actually using the Contacts app, just a facsimile that the Map app has been gracious enough to re-code.

So this is what the iPhone demands. Instead of just having the Contacts app running and in the exact spot you were before, each and every other app that wants to provide "Contacts-like" capability has to re-implement it, in whole or in part. Yuch. This is exactly the issue that true multi-tasking was meant to avoid.

Other folks in the thread have outlined other scenarios which also show the weakness with a lack of multi-tasking. BTW... that swipe-to-search thingy is a 3.0 capability is it not? Most of us don't have that yet.

And, no, I'm not a troll, just a frustrated iPhone owner with a bad memory.
 
QCassidy352 said:
This gets it exactly right and is something I've been trying to explain (less coherently than this post does) in various iphone/pre threads for a while. If iphone apps opened instantly in the state you'd left them in then you'd have most of the benefit of multitasking without the hit to performance and battery life.
Click to expand...

Yes, this would go a long way to addressing the iPhone weakness. However, there are lots of instances where you really do want true multi-tasking. No point listing them because there will always be someone who says, "do it this other way, it's almost as good", or "you don't need it", which misses the point of giving an example.

Since you can't actually view more than one app at a time on a 3" screen, actual "multitasking" is only relevant to a small number of apps. Obviously there are a few apps that wouldn't benefit from anything but true multitasking - Pandora is the easiest example (as demonstrated by the fact that the ipod app has been able to run side by side with another app since day one). But for everything else, what multitasking on a phone really comes down to is the ability to access an app quickly and in the state you left it in.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with this. My guess is that if you worked with a true-multitasking device for six months then moved to a device which just preserved state, you would immediately notice the difference. Hopefully, the Pre will raise the bar and other platforms will be forced to follow. That will make things better for all.
 
PatrickRS said:
You're right, I got the scenario wrong. What had happened to me is that when I went to the map, it couldn't find the address (a reasonably common occurrence), so there was no blue ">" arrow to click to make the call. I had to go back through the launch / search cycle again.

Even so, the reason it does work in the situation you describe is because the Map app has decided to re-implement some of the capability of the Contacts app. I note that you cannot, say, edit the contact item when you get to it from the Map app this way, or do many other operations possible from the native Contacts app. That's because you aren't actually using the Contacts app, just a facsimile that the Map app has been gracious enough to re-code.

So this is what the iPhone demands. Instead of just having the Contacts app running and in the exact spot you were before, each and every other app that wants to provide "Contacts-like" capability has to re-implement it, in whole or in part. Yuch.
Click to expand...

And yet a simple change to the contacts app that remembers the last state after a search (just like if you find a contact by scrolling through the list), would solve the problem that you described.

This is exactly the issue that true multi-tasking was meant to avoid.

Other folks in the thread have outlined other scenarios which also show the weakness with a lack of multi-tasking.
Click to expand...

Calling it "true multitasking" versus just "multitasking" does not make the word mean whatever you want it to mean. The iPhone OS is a fully multitasking OS.

Most people that say this want either a different application switcher or additional background apps.

BTW... that swipe-to-search thingy is a 3.0 capability is it not? Most of us don't have that yet.
Click to expand...

But you are comparing it to the Pre, which most of us don't have yet.
 
Things that I can not (and will not) live without, now that I've been using an iPhone for nearly 2 years:

  • iTunes syncing
  • Protected iTunes media playback
  • Tweetie (the Twitter application)
  • Glass touch surface
  • Dock connector (for my car)
  • MobileMe
  • Touch keyboard
  • Emoji
  • No moving parts
  • AT&T service (everyone I know has it, I get unlimited mobile-to-mobile out of 450 minutes)
  • AppStore with actual rich native applications

I realized all of these things were a necessity for me when I decided to dump the iPhone and buy a T-Mobile G1. I couldn't live with it, it was killing me. Everything had some sort of compromise that wasn't good enough (for example - myFavs instead of unlimited MTM).

Maybe if the Palm Pre had those things, then I would consider it... But it doesn't. The Palm Pre is not an option for me.
 
The General said:
Things that I can not (and will not) live without, now that I've been using an iPhone for nearly 2 years:

  • iTunes syncing
  • Protected iTunes media playback
Click to expand...

  • Same here. I can't see myself switching to any phone that doesn't sync with iTunes at least as well as the iPhone does.

    Does anyone know how you load music onto the Pre? Does it just show up as a mounted drive and you're supposed to drag 'n drop?
 
PatrickRS said:
I don't agree with this. My guess is that if you worked with a true-multitasking device for six months then moved to a device which just preserved state, you would immediately notice the difference. Hopefully, the Pre will raise the bar and other platforms will be forced to follow. That will make things better for all.
Click to expand...

Maybe yes and maybe no. I really can't see the difference between multitasking and what I described (very fast app open/close with state preservation) except in a pretty limited number of apps (e.g. pandora). You say I'd notice the difference, but you haven't explained what that difference is. Can you elaborate?

Well, I have a bb curve, and I find its multitasking of minimal use. I don't really know how RIM's implementation differs from Palm's though.
 
People are just arguing points for the sake of arguing.

The comments used to be focused on cut, copy and paste. Now, it's about multi-tasking.

People just need something to argue about. Enjoy the phones you want to and move on with your lives. Does anyone else ever find the irony of those complaining of lost time due to the UI... while posting on a message board? Really? You "lost seconds of your life" but you're here on a message board?

Either way, I'm excited for the Pre. I love the thing they are doing with application cards and notifications. I would love to something similar in the iPhone in the future.
 
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