iPhone without Contract in Germany? - 999€ UPDATE: Confirmed + 600€ for an unlock!

[hyddan]

WTF, that makes no sense. An iPod Touch with Bluetooth, modem and speaker/mic does not add that much to the cost.

Bad Apple.

At this stage an iPod Touch is looking better for me.

The price is set just to make a point. It's clear they don't want to sell unlocked iPhones and don't intend to since they're on contract with T-mobile. The price is high enough so hardly anyone will buy it but still low enough that some strange people -might- buy it if their life depended on it; hence following German Laws, avoiding courts and doing what they want anyway.

Easy.

 

[BLUELION]

Exactly!!

People, I'm quite sure Apple has no intention of selling any of these at 1000 (don't have euro symbol on my keyboard ). They are doing this as an FU to Vodaphone for suing them for locking the phone. Now T-mobile can say "what's the problem? We DO sell an unlocked iPhone!"

This is exactly what is going on here. Vondaphone wants to control the action of the iphone sales (via a contract with T-mobile) because it is a big big threat to their profit margins. Every customer that signs the contract with T-mobile is one less they can sign for the next two years.

People this is not about Apple, this is about Vondaphone being Greedy with a capital "G". If you want to blame anyone here blame Vondaphone for brining a friviolous lawsuit forward and then having the taxpayers of germany foot the bill.

 

[plumbingandtech]

This is so random, but is anyone else finding that elgato.com is down? thanks.

http://www.elgato.com/elgato/na.en.html

works for me just now.

 

[thworple]

The fact that Vodafone hasn't sued in the UK and Vodafone stated that they have no intention of ever suing in the UK --- signals that the O2/Apple deal is completely legal in the UK.

All my explanations of the Ofcom rules are here.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/385625/

I wasn't suggesting that Vodafone sue O2 in the UK.

I was talking about the related issue of unlocking for O2 iPhone users once the initial 18 months is up, but I can see from your posts/links in the other thread that the Ofcom 'rules' regarding this aren't really 'rules' but mere guidelines, which is a shame really.

 

[plumbingandtech]

I already have a 3G phone that regularly lasts 2-3 *days*.

Just because the iphone has a piss poor battery life doesn't mean that every phone has to.

And by piss poor you mean better then most smart phones I have tried?

Enjoy your 3G on your non iphone interface'd phone.

 

[babahi]

One aspect that strikes me, which everyone seems to have forgotten:

Isn't the unlimited data plan worth something? Imagine all the internet you would otherwise use on an unlocked phone on another network -- how much would that cost?

I find the Telekom contract prices high too, but I do acknowledge that they include unlimited data transmission, which does work out somewhat. If I were to use an unlocked iPhone on my current German Vodafone plan, I would be reamed by the data charges.

Isn't that worth something? I understand that some people want a glorified iPod Touch with phone function. But surely not everybody. Or does everybody simply plan on only surfing at Starbuck's?

 

[ogee]

If you go onto the T-Mobile site, put an iPhone in your shopping basket, you still cant proceed without selecting a plan.

Leider können Sie das Handy nicht alleine kaufen, bitte wählen Sie dazu einen Tarif aus.

 

[TonyHoyle]

Depending on the laws of the particular country, Apple maybe able have the cell operators refuse service (at the network level) to all hacked phones. So your iPhone may stop working all of a suddent with the exception of 911 type calls or equivalent.

Why would any operator want to piss off their customer base at the demand of some american big company? I doubt apple could afford to have them do that... maybe a few tens of millions in the right pocket, and maybe guarantee to pay the legal fees afterwards...

Apple can control the phone through itunes already.

 

[BLUELION]

And there it is...

I agree with you 100%.

If some French supermarket managed to sell out all their grey market hacked/unlocked iphones without a valid apple warranty for 999 euros --- then the carriers can charge something like 1200-1300 euro for a properly unlocked iphone with a valid apple warranty.

It wouldn't be a grey market if they were sourced in europe, and apple warranties would be valid. They'd have a hard time saying that because the phone was unlocked you can't replace it if the audio connector broke for example.

I really hope someone manages to source a good supply of iphones and starts reselling them unlocked. It's hard to do though because apple are restricting supply so much already.

..and there it is, supply and demand. Simple economics at play.

 

[samab]

I wasn't suggesting that Vodafone sue O2 in the UK.

I was talking about the related issue of unlocking for O2 iPhone users once the initial 18 months is up, but I can see from your posts/links in the other thread that the Ofcom 'rules' regarding this aren't really 'rules' but mere guidelines, which is a shame really.

They are not even "guidelines" --- they were just real life examples of what UK carriers did in 2002 (at the time of the writing of the Ofcom policy paper).

Ofcom can "update" the real life examples of UK carriers did recently --- like how 3 UK superglued the SIM card into those cheap prepaid phones and put a large label saying that this phone is permanently locked to 3 UK. That is completely legal according to the Ofcom policy.

Read the OnePhone letter to Ofcom dated Sept 2007 --- there isn't even a ofcom policy to force the carrier to give you an unlocking code --- after your contract is finished.

 

[TonyHoyle]

And by piss poor you mean better then most smart phones I have tried?

Enjoy your 3G on your non iphone interface'd phone.

Hell, you must have been trying some ****** phones. Try any of the nokias or motorollas.

The worst phone I ever owned got more than 12 hours. The best got over 7 days once. iphone maxes out at about 9 hours.

 

[Fuchal]

Hell, you must have been trying some ****** phones. Try any of the nokias or motorollas.

The worst phone I ever owned got more than 12 hours. The best got over 7 days once. iphone maxes out at about 9 hours.

My iphone lasts me a good 3 days on one charge. Try again.

 

[farmboy]

No Euro Symbol? Easy

People, I'm quite sure Apple has no intention of selling any of these at 1000 (don't have euro symbol on my keyboard ). They are doing this as an FU to Vodaphone for suing them for locking the phone. Now T-mobile can say "what's the problem? We DO sell an unlocked iPhone!"

Go to System Prefs > International > Input Menu > Select Keyboard Viewer. This will put the keyboard with all symbol and character options up on your menu bar. The Euro symbol is Shift - Option - 2.

You're right about Apple not caring if they sell any of these phones at €1000. Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[TonyHoyle]

Ofcom can "update" the real life examples of UK carriers did recently --- like how 3 UK superglued the SIM card into those cheap prepaid phones and put a large label saying that this phone is permanently locked to 3 UK. That is completely legal according to the Ofcom policy.

Source? Google comes up blank for this. I can find no reference on the ofcom site of such a ruling, or of such a thing happening.

My iphone lasts me a good 3 days on one charge. Try again.

Yeah right.. in flight mode?

That's at least 3-5 times more than any other report I've heard.

 

[samab]

Source? Google comes up blank for this. I can find no reference on the ofcom site of such a ruling, or of such a thing happening.

This is what Ofcom said about 3 UK glueing the SIM card.

Quote:

"Ofcom's director of communications, Matt Peacock, told Mobile that from a regulatory perspective the move was a physical extension of the handset or Sim-locking issue: 'In November 2002 Oftel decided that improved consumer awareness of Sim locking is the best way to address the issue.' The regulator defines Sim-locking as: 'the practice where handsets are locked so they can only be used with the original provider of the service.' This view effectively opened the way for operators to glue Sims into handsets, as long as customers are made aware of what they are being sold."

http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/content/1620.asp?

 

[SFC Archer]

Yeah right.. in flight mode?

That's at least 3-5 times more than any other report I've heard.

Then you need to check your sources....cause mine also lasts upto 3 days also...I do recharge every 48 hours just to ensure that I do not run out of power.

And its NOT in airplane mode...in fact it runs with bluetooth and wifi ON 24 hours a day!

 

[ChrisA]

The iphones wifi handling is good enough that it really doesn't matter.. you're likely to have wifi at your workplace and at home anyway. Only matters when you're out and about.

At the end of the day phones and contracts are separate products. I wasn't forced to buy a particular brand of DSL when I bought my router, and similarly I wasn't forced to use a particular router when I bought my DSL. Don't see why phones should be different.

It is actually the consumers that want the phones to be tied to contracts. People like the steeply discounted phones and don't seem to care much about the cost of airtime.

You have to remember at least half the people spend their entire paycheck every pay period and if not for credit could never pay for a phone up front, all at once so they actually prefer to have the cost of the phone buried in the monthly phone bill.

If you want an unlocked phone to be sold at full, un-substitized price you in a small minority of people.

From another point of view.... Here in the US AT&T has two products, phones and airtime. Airtime sells for about 6 to 10 times the price of the phone. Which do you think the salesman wants you to buy. I think they can care less if you buy a phone. Phones are just a nuisance they have to provide so they can sell their real product, airtime. So why would a phone copany want to sell yu an unlocked phone?

 

[EagerDragon]

Yeah I see that they are missing out on the contract. The whole point is, the iPhone could never have a cost price of more than € 250 or something. (They're selling the iPod touch for much less, $ 300 = € 211). 75% profit on hardware is insane.

I don't mind paying a premium for Apple stuff - heck I bought a PowerBook G4while it was already outdated - but this is going a bit too far for me.

You are saying that because it cost 1 dollar more, it is not possible to sell it for more than 5 dollars more.

Non-Sense, Apple will sell it for what ever amount they can get away with until someone has a better product that sells better than the iPhone.

Comparison and logic has nothing to do with it.

Apple has a bottom amount of money that they want for each phone, they can meet that amount via a combination of an initial payment + a subscription, or if the subscription can not be gotten they just charge more for the device. But the buttom line is that amount they projected to make on each phone. They rather not sell the phone than miss their profit target.

 

[thejakill]

i don't understand this at all. apple can sell any product it wants in any way it wants. what is the public need in having them sell the iphone unlocked? if people don't like t-mobile, then they can just get another phone on another wireless company.

this unlocking thing is starting to sound like the anti-DRM argument, to me. somehow, people think they have the right to control the way a company does its business. if you don't like it, do business with someone else.

i think they should sell the unlocked iphones for $10,000 and give the finger to whoever doesn't like the way they do business.

 

[goosnarrggh]

That's as false as saying a yugo has 4 wheels, so installing a larger windshield will make it more like a Austin Martin.

Usability on other phones are piss poor. The features might be there, but they are usually quirky and difficult to use even if you are reading the manual.

People who don't use Apple products thinks it's just the packaging... LOL...

It's not just the "pretty package", it's the whole experience, which to most people, is superior...

So they want to charge $??? for unlocked phone.
* that's within their right
* it's similar in price to other phones that aren't as usable
* hackers will get a hold of it, hopefully making hacking iPhones easier

As I understand the message, that doesn't have anything at all to do with the point TonyHoyle was trying to make.

Aside from visual voicemail, the majority of carriers in Europe already have all the infrastructure in place that would allow the iPhone to operate exactly the same on their networks as it does on one of the "exclusive" networks.

TonyHoyle was (and I apologize if I'm putting words in his mouth) pointing out this fact in response to somebody who was contending that without an exclusive carrier, the iPhone user experience would have been irreparably damaged due to inadequate support by the network operators.

 

[Faye]

This all seems very silly.

http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/News/6585/stuttering_start_for_iphone.html
They're not selling in any great numbers at their current price. There are much better phones available unlocked for £400, let alone £720.
I think to be honest that they'd be glad of the £270 buy and 3rd party unlock for people who actually want one, to get the product out there... It looks as though people forgot what the product was after 2 days. I've seen 3 geek types with them, but no "mere mortals". It looks as though this iteration of the phone only has a 6mo shelf life too, if the 3g rumours are to be believed. They'll be giving them away before long to get rid of stock.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a wonderful interface to a phone (perhaps could do with a little feedback), and it's an ipod touch... but those are its only real features. You can get more of a phone for free over here at the moment (on a contract of course).

When the 3g iPhone comes out, if they've fixed the lack of bluetooth functionality - No modem use, no sync, no stereo headset? COME ON, this is supposed to be a music phone and my Nokia (and almost every other brand) syncs wirelessly to my mac...Apple's OWN phone DOESN'T! If they fix those things, then I'll get one.


Faye

 

[SFC Archer]

i don't understand this at all. apple can sell any product it wants in any way it wants. what is the public need in having them sell the iphone unlocked? if people don't like t-mobile, then they can just get another phone on another wireless company.

this unlocking thing is starting to sound like the anti-DRM argument, to me. somehow, people think they have the right to control the way a company does its business. if you don't like it, do business with someone else.

i think they should sell the unlocked iphones for $10,000 and give the finger to whoever doesn't like the way they do business.

AMEN!!! You said it all in such a few lines...Applause!

I am also sick of whiners like VodaDRONE who have to go crying to big Daddy Judge because the little boy on the block is picking on him. Get over this lock/unlock...if it doesn't fit your needs then don't buy...if you don't like the carrier then go somewhere else. If you want to be cool or use this brand new platform regardless of what it does/does not have...then suck it up and quit your whining...nothing in this world will ever be the way the EVERY SINGLE user wants...something will always be missing for someone in one way or another...improvise, adapt and overcome!

 

[Cloudsurfer]

It was only a matter of time. European phones should be able to be unlocked after a year for free anyway.

 

[petvas]

Hell, you must have been trying some ****** phones. Try any of the nokias or motorollas.

The worst phone I ever owned got more than 12 hours. The best got over 7 days once. iphone maxes out at about 9 hours.

I also have the Ericsson K810 and despite UMTS, the browser is very bad compared to Safari on iPhone. I sure want UMTS on my iPhone but better live with EDGE than having a UMTS device from Nokia and all others that offers a bad interface, small screen and slow performance.
The iPhone is a revolutionary device and it is by far the best mobile on this planet!

 

[EagerDragon]

Another american I presume.

Contrary to what americans seem to believe companies do *not* have an automatic right to profit if that harms consumers or society in general. Regulations are absolutely necessary to keep them in line.

There is no harm, consumers can purchase a different phone and use a different carrier. It is not a monopoly, people have choices. The iPhone is not the only phone that allows people to call each other.