iPhone X Production Faces Further Delays, Will Start in Mid-October

[SwissGuy93]

My $.02 is that the hardware that's beyond the chipsets, Take AMOLED screen, or the wireless charging. These have been standard features in phones for so many years. Unlike in the past where Apple would leap frog Android in features, they've merely caught up.

Indeed, my family is fully entrenched in iOS and that's probably the biggest reason why I'm sticking with the iPhone, yet, I'm not spending any money on new phones this year. The iPhone 8 doesn't do much for me, and the X is ridiculously priced, to the point where I'll keep using my older iPhone

When did Apple ever leap frog other devices with standard hardware? Remember when they introduced the iPhone 3G or iPhone 3GS and MMS was introduced to the iPhone? Every other phone could already do that.

The only 2 times Apple really stood out with it's hardware from a specs perspective was when they introduced the retina display with the iPhone 4 and Touch ID with the 5S. And they are doing it again with the iPhone X and Face ID. They leapfrog the competition there again.
Yes, they caught up with OLED, but is Apple really to blame? There is no manufacturer out there capable enough to produce all the OLED screens needed for the large amount of iPhones out there.
And yes they were late to the game with wireless charging but they never said that they were first to the game.
What I find astounding; There is virtually no top or bottom bezel. Something you find in every flagship phone out there. That is the real advantage here.
And as controversial as the notch may be; it is a engineering miracle, from a hardware point of view.
Apple was never really first to anything. And yes, you could say that they caught up, but it's the best implementation of any features out there in terms of display to body ratio and facial recognition.

 

[maflynn]

When did Apple ever leap frog other devices with standard hardware?

Retina display,
Apple pay
AX processors, including multicore processors
Force Touch


I could probably continue, but that's a nice list.

 

[SwissGuy93]

Retina display,
Apple pay
AX processors, including multicore processors
Force Touch


I could probably continue, but that's a nice list.

Yes, and then add Face ID to that list, and we have a leap frog feature for the iPhone X, so not catching up. All I am saying is, that the catch up thing everybody's so mad about is just ridiculous.

The iPhone 8 Plus (not even the iPhone X) just recieved the highest DoXMark score with 94. That is 4 higher than the Pixel. The A11 Bionic leaves every Android phone, especially the Galaxy phones everyone's getting all fuzzy about, in the dust.
Yes, Apple may have caught up with the competition in some aspects and in a more broader term, but it's still in the details were Apple's strength is. And yes, the price might be high but you will probably get the most refined phone out there.

And just for clarification; You were the one stating that Apple merely caught up. I am saying yes, Apple caught up and went passed the competition with the iPhone X.

 

[maflynn]

Yes, and then add Face ID to that list, and we have a leap frog feature for the iPhone X

Ummm, Samsung already has a phone with facial recognition, so its not a feature that apple leap frogged its competition.

 

[SwissGuy93]

Ummm, Samsung already has a phone with facial recognition, so its not a feature that apple leap frogged its competition.

Do you know the differences between the facial recoginition of the Samsung phones and the iPhone X? Apple leap frogged because it's easier to use, more secure and overall another technology.

Touch ID wasn't the first fingerprint reader out there but it was the most convienent and secure out there. Leap frogging doesn't mean that you were the first. It means that your implementation is far better than anything out there. And that is a given with Face ID.

 

[flat five]

A 1920x1080 HD movie on the iPhone X will be equivalent to a 5" screen.

fwiw, that's a false/misleading statement..
there isn't enough info to know if the comparison is correct.

you could phrase it as "a non-cropped 1080p movie on an iPhone X will have a 5" diagonal measurement" (or smthng like that)..

but making the comparison to a 5" screen is misleading since we don't know the dimensions of the 5" screen.. the movie could play at the same size as on a 5" screen or it could play larger on iPhone X than it will on a 5" screen.

 

[maflynn]

Do you know the differences between the facial recoginition of the Samsung phones and the iPhone X? Apple leap frogged because it's easier to use, more secure and overall another technology.

yes I do and I agree Apple's implementation is superior, but yet we're talking about features and how Apple rolled out a feature first.

 

[SwissGuy93]

yes I do and I agree Apple's implementation is superior, but yet we're talking about features and how Apple rolled out a feature first.

Yes, but you cannot compare Samsungs feature with Apples feature. That would be like saying that a Tesla is not leap frogging because Toyota had the Prius before.

Samsungs implementation is half baked at best. They rushed it and it is really not that reliable, so to compare it to Face ID, which relies on a technology so different that a comparison really is redundant, makes no sense.

 

[symphara]

Yes, and then add Face ID to that list, and we have a leap frog feature for the iPhone X, so not catching up. All I am saying is, that the catch up thing everybody's so mad about is just ridiculous.

The iPhone 8 Plus (not even the iPhone X) just recieved the highest DoXMark score with 94. That is 4 higher than the Pixel. The A11 Bionic leaves every Android phone, especially the Galaxy phones everyone's getting all fuzzy about, in the dust.
Yes, Apple may have caught up with the competition in some aspects and in a more broader term, but it's still in the details were Apple's strength is. And yes, the price might be high but you will probably get the most refined phone out there.

And just for clarification; You were the one stating that Apple merely caught up. I am saying yes, Apple caught up and went passed the competition with the iPhone X.

I don't think FaceID is leapfrogging anything. It's a less convenient biometric unlocking method.

 

[SwissGuy93]

I don't think FaceID is leapfrogging anything. It's a less convenient biometric unlocking method.

How would you know if it's less conveinent? Are you also suddenly unlocking your phone in your pocket like everyone else? Please give me one, just one, use case where you are not looking on your phone while unlocking it.

 

[flat five]

I don't think FaceID is leapfrogging anything. It's a less convenient biometric unlocking method.

not necessarily.. (and, without getting into it about your opinion on convenience), the technology behind faceID isn't allowing ONLY a biometric unlocking method.

the tech allowing faceID is a 3D scanner that has multiple usages which have never been seen/implemented before on a consumer device.. it can also biometrically(?) unlock a phone.

touchID can only do one thing.. read a fingerprint with no other use cases (that i can think of)

 

[symphara]

How would you know if it's less conveinent? Are you also suddenly unlocking your phone in your pocket like everyone else? Please give me one, just one, use case where you are not looking on your phone while unlocking it.

By the time I look at my phone, it's already unlocked. I don't unlock it in my pocket, I unlock it while I pull it out to look at it. If I have to pull it out, look at it, and then it unlocks, that's definitely less convenient.

 

[SwissGuy93]

By the time I look at my phone, it's already unlocked. I don't unlock it in my pocket, I unlock it while I pull it out to look at it. If I have to pull it out, look at it, and then it unlocks, that's definitely less convenient.

So you never look at your Notifications? And you can unlock it. You swipe while taking it up to your face and it then unlocks. And looking at your phone is really horribly inconnvenient....

 

[symphara]

So you never look at your Notifications? And you can unlock it. You swipe while taking it up to your face and it then unlocks. And looking at your phone is really horribly inconnvenient....

I get notifications on my watch, so no, when I reach for my phone I want to do something with it, not just look at notifications. Not that it matters.

I'm not talking about the swipe (that's fine), I'm talking about the fact that you have to put your phone in your visual range, so its front camera can see you, and then it unlocks.

This is decidedly less convenient than the fingerprint reader. As I explained before, by the time I look at my phone, it's already unlocked, I'm in the home screen. As an added bonus, I don't even think about it, I don't have to position it in front of my face or in any particular position or angle.

I know the tech is cool and all that. But that doesn't matter, if the end result is worse, and it will be worse without a doubt. Face unlock is just less convenient by the very nature of it. And if it ever gets so good that it unlocks the phone when you're simply around, that's not good either - I don't want my phone to decide when to unlock itself, I want to make that decision myself.

This all assumes that FaceID works flawlessly for detection. As in, if it works flawlessly, it's still less convenient than the fingerprint reader. If it won't - and based on their presentation I have doubts it will be as solid - then it's a bigger involution.

 

[SwissGuy93]

I get notifications on my watch, so no, when I reach for my phone I want to do something with it, not just look at notifications. Not that it matters.

I'm not talking about the swipe (that's fine), I'm talking about the fact that you have to put your phone in your visual range, so its front camera can see you, and then it unlocks.

This is decidedly less convenient than the fingerprint reader. As I explained before, by the time I look at my phone, it's already unlocked, I'm in the home screen. As an added bonus, I don't even think about it, I don't have to position it in front of my face or in any particular position or angle.

I know the tech is cool and all that. But that doesn't matter, if the end result is worse, and it will be worse without a doubt. Face unlock is just less convenient by the very nature of it. And if it ever gets so good that it unlocks the phone when you're simply around, that's not good either - I don't want my phone to decide when to unlock itself, I want to make that decision myself.

This all assumes that FaceID works flawlessly for detection. As in, if it works flawlessly, it's still less convenient than the fingerprint reader. If it won't - and based on their presentation I have doubts it will be as solid - then it's a bigger involution.

The presentation was not a flux but merely the bio-lockout kicking in because someone else than Craig was handeling the phone. I know it's what Apple told us but this explanation makes a lot of sense, as the message said that a passcode was required to enable Face ID. So Face ID actually worked perfectly.

Just for clarification; You don't have to align your face with your phone or have it in a specific angle to work. It works in off-angels and everything.

What you are suggesting is that we don't even give it a try but merely dismiss it without having actually ever interacted with it? And change like that is just preconditioned to be bad? I disagree with you. Touch ID is good and well but for example with the iPhone 7 Plus it is sometimes is hard to handel the phone with one hand while pressing the home button.
I also use the Apple Watch and read my notifications there but for messages and whatsapp I mostly answer directly from the lockscreen.

I also encounter the problem several times where I press the homebutton to see whats on my screen and Touch ID already unlocked my phone. Of course, I could use the side button but that is less convenient for me.

 

[Jjayf]

Exactly, he is paid to say things like that. He earns money from reports. And he can report whatever he wants because no one is ever going to know the real truth, as Apple would never say anything.
I have stated on various occassions that I could very well be wrong but I look at the hard evidence we are provided.
One of my arguments is the large roll out. 55 countries from day one is a lot. If Apple knew that the supply would not improve until launch they would never have added 55 countries to the first wave. Secondly, Apple NEEDS to sell the iPhone X. They do not earn money with pre-orders as long as they are not shipped. So having the phone not ship until March for some preorders, like some of you here suggested, is just not an option.

All I am saying is; Let's be critical of what others say. Maybe you disagree with my assessment of the situation and that is 100% fine. I am just saying let's not take anything for granted what these analysts say, especially not if they are not KGI. Even KGI gets it wrong. He reported for example that the Apple Watch would not be able to make cellular calls or be able to use LTE for texting, but he was wrong. So yes, sometimes they get it right, but sometimes not. And the facts that Apple provide contradict what this unknown Analysts says.
[doublepost=1506062789][/doublepost]
What are the glaring mistakes in this release? You like the design.

You state that you are heavily invested in Apple. So why do you trust an unknown analyst on a subject like this? This guy could very well be lying. I have written it many times and I will repeat myself; The only ones to know how many phones are being produced per day are the Foxconn and Apple executives and the Apple Operations team. And I doubt that anyone of these people have ever met this analyst.
There was even an analyst suggesting that there would be 4 color options for the iPhone X. There were also reports from analyst stating that the iPhone X would launch in December. There were also analysts stating that the phone would start at 899, 1199 and other price points.
Analysts throw stuff out there because they think they know it. They earn money and reputation from stunts like that.

And Apple has a big problem: Having enough stock will give the customers the feeling that the phone is not sought after. I am not saying that Apple is 100% right and unmistakeable. But I just think we are judging them right now based on hear say.

The mistakes are in marketing, not in the design of the X. They have crippled sales in both the 7 and 8 because there was no WoW factor. There were no glaring innovations in either release over the 6 line other than 3D Touch and a lack of headphone jack... Not a plus to many people. The 6 was the best selling line in recent history, the 7 had lacklustre sales, and the 8 will be even worse as people hold out for the X. Marketing nightmare, wasted resources.

 

[symphara]

What you are suggesting is that we don't even give it a try but merely dismiss it without having actually ever interacted with it?

Not at all. You didn't read what I actually wrote, based on your past comments.

I didn't say it will be horrible or non-functional. I only said it will be less convenient than the fingerprint reader.

This is because of the very nature of the unlock.

For fingerprint, you can unlock the phone during the motion to get it ready to interact with it. You have muscle memory that puts your finger on the sensor, and otherwise you don't worry about the process, it's that seamless. You don't need to look at your phone to unlock it. As I explained many times, I find that by the time I look at my phone, it's already unlocked.

For face unlock, you need first to get the phone ready to interact with you - because you need to look at it - and then you can unlock it. So basically it's an extra step there.

This is no leapfrogging, it's involution of functionality. Just like the missing headphone jack. You get less, for more money.

 

[SwissGuy93]

The mistakes are in marketing, not in the design of the X. They have crippled sales in both the 7 and 8 because there was no WoW factor. There were no glaring innovations in either release over the 6 line other than 3D Touch and a lack of headphone jack... Not a plus to many people. The 6 was the best selling line in recent history, the 7 had lacklustre sales, and the 8 will be even worse as people hold out for the X. Marketing nightmare, wasted resources.

lackluster sales? The sales even grew by 2%. Agreed, that is not much but it is far from this nightmare you are describing.
The iPhone 7 was a necessary evil. They wanted to try the double lens module and to remove the headphonejack without hurting iPhone X sales and reputation.
As for the 8; It is also a necessary evil. The only manufacturer of quality OLED displays is Samsung. And Samsung is milking this opportuinty with high prices. Even if Apple wanted to only release OLED displays the wouldn't be able to, as the demand would outstrip the supply. It is not even sure if Apple can have an all-OLED line-up as no company can provide the number of panels Apple would need.

Yes, from a design and marketing standpoint the iPhone 7 and iPhone 8 are a though sell. But to call them wasted resources is a bit harsh. They are still great phones and outperform every Android Phone out there.
[doublepost=1506088361][/doublepost]

Not at all. You didn't read what I actually wrote, based on your past comments.

I didn't say it will be horrible or non-functional. I only said it will be less convenient than the fingerprint reader.

This is because of the very nature of the unlock.

For fingerprint, you can unlock the phone during the motion to get it ready to interact with it. You have muscle memory that puts your finger on the sensor, and otherwise you don't worry about the process, it's that seamless. You don't need to look at your phone to unlock it. As I explained many times, I find that by the time I look at my phone, it's already unlocked.

For face unlock, you need first to get the phone ready to interact with you - because you need to look at it - and then you can unlock it. So basically it's an extra step there.

This is no leapfrogging, it's involution of functionality. Just like the missing headphone jack. You get less, for more money.

It is leapfrogging because the technology behind it is more advanced than anyting out there. And no you don't get less you get exactly the same: you get a biometric unlocking functionality. If you find it less convenient it's your opinion but not a defect of the product.

True, but you look at your phone anyway. And let's not act like Touch ID is flawless. I regularly have to enter my pin because my hand is either wet, sweaty or I have hold my phone in my hand while walking and my palm pressed against touch ID triggering the bio-lockout.

There is also one thing we are missing here with Touch ID under the display; It is less secure than a standard fingerprint reader. Touch ID under the glass would most certainly have to work with ultrasonic waves much like the Qualcomm prototyp (which was reviewed as being slow and unreliable). Ultrasonic waves can easily be faked and I assume that the reliablity would be worse than with the current touch ID.

 

[bunnicula]

yes I do and I agree Apple's implementation is superior, but yet we're talking about features and how Apple rolled out a feature first.

Being first really isn't good if first means you suck at what you put out there.

 

[OldSchoolMacGuy]

Wow, how did you manage that since pre-ordering hasn't even started yet...

How can you have placed an order, ordering isn't available until more than a month from now?

As I explained before, Apple partners can call them directly and request they place an order for any product in advance of pre-orders.

Lol, Okay. How do you help Apple make millions? Who do you think you are, Woz?

Make computer forensic software for macOS and iOS. For example, we helped get one of the three-letter agencies to order 1,900 machines (Mac Pros with MBP) packaged with our software. That single sale was over $10 million. So yes, we've helped make millions for Apple.

 

[symphara]

It is leapfrogging because the technology behind it is more advanced than anyting out there. And no you don't get less you get exactly the same: you get a biometric unlocking functionality. If you find it less convenient it's your opinion but not a defect of the product.

True, but you look at your phone anyway. And let's not act like Touch ID is flawless. I regularly have to enter my pin because my hand is either wet, sweaty or I have hold my phone in my hand while walking and my palm pressed against touch ID triggering the bio-lockout.

There is also one thing we are missing here with Touch ID under the display; It is less secure than a standard fingerprint reader. Touch ID under the glass would most certainly have to work with ultrasonic waves much like the Qualcomm prototyp (which was reviewed as being slow and unreliable). Ultrasonic waves can easily be faked and I assume that the reliablity would be worse than with the current touch ID.

The tech being cool - and there’s no doubt it is cool - is no reflection on it being more convenient. And that, clearly, is its failure, compared to fingerprint tech.

By the way, the only time I put my password on my phone is when I reboot it. The sensor on my phone, which is not an iPhone, is much faster than touch ID and works with moist/sweaty fingers. Touch ID is not that great, I have it on my Macbook and it’s much slower and unreliable than my phone. I’d still take the convenience over the need to look at the phone before unlocking it.

I wouldn’t discount the iPhone X based on FaceID alone, but for me this is a drawback to the phone, not an advantage by any measure.

In any case, Apple isn’t leapfrogging anyone here. This is their Plan B after the failure to deliver the in-glass fingerprint sensor. I think very few people, save for their hardcore fans, take this inability to deliver what we really wanted as a measure of success.

 

[SwissGuy93]

The tech being cool - and there’s no doubt it is cool - is no reflection on it being more convenient. And that, clearly, is its failure, compared to fingerprint tech.

By the way, the only time I put my password on my phone is when I reboot it. The sensor on my phone, which is not an iPhone, is much faster than touch ID and works with moist/sweaty fingers. Touch ID is not that great, I have it on my Macbook and it’s much slower and unreliable than my phone. I’d still take the convenience over the need to look at the phone before unlocking it.

I wouldn’t discount the iPhone X based on FaceID alone, but for me this is a drawback to the phone, not an advantage by any measure.

In any case, Apple isn’t leapfrogging anyone here. This is their Plan B after the failure to deliver the in-glass fingerprint sensor. I think very few people, save for their hardcore fans, take this inability to deliver what we really wanted as a measure of success.

I have to say, just to defend Touch ID: It works a 1000 times better on the iPhone than on the Macbook Pro. It works instantaneously.

We don't know if they failed. Those "facts" are again based only on reports from analysts. I don't know if they tried to implement it. But what I do know is, that they did not scrap it this year. Maybe last year but for sure not this year. They had to know everything about this phone by January to place the orders for the vendors.

 

[techwhiz]

I don't really get this. Apple is one of the largest companies in the world and by units manufactured has to be up there with the biggest. Why do they constantly have these supply issues? They should be working on the 2018, 2019 and even 2020 iPhone by now and have a clear manufacturing plan so there is not a delay after a product has been released and not a shortage of supply that goes on for months and months. The whole debacle couple of years ago when they announced a new iMac and then stopped making he old one, leaving months when you couldnt buy an iMac was just a joke. It's not like the technology that they are using is cutting edge and only just developed before the latest iPhone goes into production. Nearly every bit of technology Apple release has already been in production by some other company already.

If the regulator's force Apple to make iOS and OS available on other devices then I think a lot of people would jump ship to another hardware manufacturer. With the dominance of Apple in the marketplace and how they lock customers in, I think this is on its way. The EU won't stand for it much longer as its anti-competitive.

1. There are limits to manufacturing. Apple is seeing the constraints of how fas you can make units and how fast you can make components. If demand outstrips supply, then you are stuck. What you don't want to do is invest in capital equipment and people to satisfy an extreme ramp and have them sit idle when the initial surge in demand eases. You do what most manufacturers do. You look at what the expected forecast looks lie and you build to that. Eventually things will level out.

Some and not all of Apple's technology has been released by someone else, but not in the exact same package.
There are limits in manufacturing the frames, displays and the number of processors per wafer and the number of eager starts. Apple doesn't own the fab making the A11.

2. They aren't going to force Apple to port iOS anywhere. iOS is only a monopoly on iOS devices. Apple doesn't have anywhere near 30% of the overall cell phone market so that's not going to happen. Apple is only a monopoly in the Apple ecosystem.
[doublepost=1506115195][/doublepost]

Ummm, Samsung already has a phone with facial recognition, so its not a feature that apple leap frogged its competition.

The way it's done leaves Samsung and everyone else in the dust.

 

[lordofthereef]

Next Pixel looks boring.

I haven’t honestly seen it yet. Have there been any announcements?

Regardless, I need a phone now lol. Or at least a new battery. If I’m stuck waiting months in end so be it. I’m beyond the point in my life needing the awesomest gadget and just need something that works. Honestly a $70 battery swap doesn’t seem like a bad thing.

 

[The Game 161]

1. There are limits to manufacturing. Apple is seeing the constraints of how fas you can make units and how fast you can make components. If demand outstrips supply, then you are stuck. What you don't want to do is invest in capital equipment and people to satisfy an extreme ramp and have them sit idle when the initial surge in demand eases. You do what most manufacturers do. You look at what the expected forecast looks lie and you build to that. Eventually things will level out.

Some and not all of Apple's technology has been released by someone else, but not in the exact same package.
There are limits in manufacturing the frames, displays and the number of processors per wafer and the number of eager starts. Apple doesn't own the fab making the A11.

2. They aren't going to force Apple to port iOS anywhere. iOS is only a monopoly on iOS devices. Apple doesn't have anywhere near 30% of the overall cell phone market so that's not going to happen. Apple is only a monopoly in the Apple ecosystem.
[doublepost=1506115195][/doublepost]

The way it's done leaves Samsung and everyone else in the dust.

Well lets hope so but right now thats not confirmed.