TWinbrook46636 said:
So...Apple released 2 updated computer lines and a significant server peripheral on Tuesday. What more do you want?
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iPod Possibilites?
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So...Apple released 2 updated computer lines and a significant server peripheral on Tuesday. What more do you want?
Convergance devices with hard drives will be out this year (the Zaurus has one already). We will seem them first in PDAs, and then phones. Think of a Dell Axim with VGA screen, WiFi, Bluetooth, and a 20gb HD. Now of a Treo 650 type phone with a HD. That exists now, minus the hard drive, we aren't talking about leaps and bounds, we are just talking about adding a HD to current feature sets. I understand it may not sync with iTunes, but with that type of feature set, and that kind of screen, customers would look at their options, and it would cost less than or as much as a high end ipod... people would walk away from Apple if they can't offer a similiar product. I use a Treo 600, and wouldn't touch my ipod if it had a 20gb drive. And please don't mention the classic "battery life! What about battery life?!" As you should know that Apple's batteries are poor in capacity for the money...and a PDA or phone, even my Treo for instance could power the drive longer than the current ipod battery.
Oh, and for those of you that scream "All, I want is a music player, nothing else!" then that is fine, hold on to your ipod till the end, cause if Apple's doesn't adapt and compete, then you can go down together. I believe the ipod is the best out there, but that will change... and adding pictures and wireless isn't going to help against devices that can do so much more...
If you want to spend $300 on a phone, $300 for a PDA, and $350 for an ipod, sure go ahead.
Convergance is the future, lets pray for Apple to make it there quickly. Jobs says that he won't make a phone... hope he changes his mind.
Oh, and for those of you that scream "All, I want is a music player, nothing else!" then that is fine, hold on to your ipod till the end, cause if Apple's doesn't adapt and compete, then you can go down together. I believe the ipod is the best out there, but that will change... and adding pictures and wireless isn't going to help against devices that can do so much more...
If you want to spend $300 on a phone, $300 for a PDA, and $350 for an ipod, sure go ahead.
Convergance is the future, lets pray for Apple to make it there quickly. Jobs says that he won't make a phone... hope he changes his mind.
Wasn't the whole point of iPods the fact that they WEREN'T 256 flash based players? I mean I remember when MP3 players first came out and I was looking at them I was like "Yeah Um 10 songs aint worth my time" so I dunno why apple would move into that market.
Flash memory is dropping!
I just bought a 1 GB CF card for $72. 2GB are about $130. In bulk, I am sure Apple can manage a lot lower price. I don't see why you cannot have a $99 1GB flash player. However, if Apple want's to even go that low is the question!
-Siva
Laslo Panaflex said:
I just bought a 1 GB CF card for $72. 2GB are about $130. In bulk, I am sure Apple can manage a lot lower price. I don't see why you cannot have a $99 1GB flash player. However, if Apple want's to even go that low is the question!
-Siva
dornoforpyros said:
To 'lock' them into iTMS, and give consumers an exposure to Apple including a mapped-out upgrade path upwards to an iPod...
The Minis are still too expensive for most kids & casual presents.
See it as a loss-leader -- brings people on board & generates more 'halo'
Macrumors said:
I can't imagine the "U2 Pod" will come with ALL of U2's releases installed.
Seems they'd want to steer the hype towards their latest release on Nov. 23rd, "How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb".
And if it inspires people to buy the rest of their catalog, well....that's gravy.
PS - anybody who has listened to U2 since the early days remembers what it was like to live in a world without Macintosh. Most of us can't agree on U2's best album, but most of us have it narrowed down to the pre-Achtung Baby period. Here's hoping that the latest work kicks ass. I know I'll be listening.
I could get 100-150 dollars to buy a flash-based iPod. I can't afford the others, but I can get a flash based one.
Mike
Mike
No way.
The whole flash rumor just doesn't make sense, regardless of how many 'reliable' sources quote it.
Apple has traditionally not produced *anything* unless they can make good margin on it. During their recent quarterly earnings announcement, they reiterated that they wanted to stay on an average margin in retail in the 27-28% range. I seriously doubt that Apple is going to release a product that not only dilutes their margins and increases load on their supply chain, but also puts them in competition with themselves.
You can argue strongly (as many here have) that selling a cheap flash based iPod will convince flash based iPod buyers to upgrade to "real" iPods eventually. This strategy can backfire easily. A cheap, low quality iPod won't impress anyone and won't instill confidence in Apple products.
I've always thought of Apple as a prime engineering company. They build really nice stuff, nice to hold, nice to look at, nice to use. Can Apple really make a flash based iPod that fits that description, gets them the margins they need, and not kill off sales of other iPod lines?
I think Apple is fairly content to remain the *premium* music player manufacturer, with the lions share of the market already in hand. Truly they cannot rest and do nothing, but I can't see their direction moving into the "me too" flash based players.
As others have said here, Steve already poo-pooed the flash players repeatedly and in a big way.
If I am wrong and Apple does decide to give this sort of device a try, I can guarantee you that it will be more expensive that the rumors indicate.
The whole flash rumor just doesn't make sense, regardless of how many 'reliable' sources quote it.
Apple has traditionally not produced *anything* unless they can make good margin on it. During their recent quarterly earnings announcement, they reiterated that they wanted to stay on an average margin in retail in the 27-28% range. I seriously doubt that Apple is going to release a product that not only dilutes their margins and increases load on their supply chain, but also puts them in competition with themselves.
You can argue strongly (as many here have) that selling a cheap flash based iPod will convince flash based iPod buyers to upgrade to "real" iPods eventually. This strategy can backfire easily. A cheap, low quality iPod won't impress anyone and won't instill confidence in Apple products.
I've always thought of Apple as a prime engineering company. They build really nice stuff, nice to hold, nice to look at, nice to use. Can Apple really make a flash based iPod that fits that description, gets them the margins they need, and not kill off sales of other iPod lines?
I think Apple is fairly content to remain the *premium* music player manufacturer, with the lions share of the market already in hand. Truly they cannot rest and do nothing, but I can't see their direction moving into the "me too" flash based players.
As others have said here, Steve already poo-pooed the flash players repeatedly and in a big way.
If I am wrong and Apple does decide to give this sort of device a try, I can guarantee you that it will be more expensive that the rumors indicate.
I think there is definitely a market for a flash based player from Apple....especially if they could go $149 or less.
My nephews (2) both are now the proud owners of broken discmans. They want new ones but to get a decent one they are $50 each. And they still have to carry around multiple cd's. They are only 9yrs & 7yrs old so they really do not know how to take care of such things right now. Smaller flash based iPods would definitely be great for these guys and they would not have to carry around bulky discmans and scratch up their cd's. With Christmas around the corner they would almost definitely be getting these if they were to be released.
My nephews (2) both are now the proud owners of broken discmans. They want new ones but to get a decent one they are $50 each. And they still have to carry around multiple cd's. They are only 9yrs & 7yrs old so they really do not know how to take care of such things right now. Smaller flash based iPods would definitely be great for these guys and they would not have to carry around bulky discmans and scratch up their cd's. With Christmas around the corner they would almost definitely be getting these if they were to be released.
I like everyone else would love to see apple release a new iPod. But seriously guys, dont most of you already have one? I just bought an iPod mini 5 months ago, and just because a *brand new* iPod comes out, doesnt mean im gonna go buy it. In my opinion, i think Apple should start focusing more on accessories for the iPod, instead of different and new iPods. I love my iPod mini, and would buy tons of accessories...if there were some actually useful and cool ones out there.
patterns
ok, let's review here. Apple introduces the original 5 GB ipod. People think it is a joke, nobody will want one of these. Turns into a revolution.
Apple introduces an iPod mini. it's too small and too expensive, it'll never work. Apple can't build them fast enough.
Flash based iPod? NOOOOO!! They will dilute their market share and people won't think I'm cool anymore b/c I dropped 5 bills on my ipod. Besides, nobody wants one of these...
That issue notwithstanding, let me offer the suggestion that those of us who are big enough geeks to float around on a mac rumors website would not be the target audience for such a product.
A cheap flash based ipod would be aimed at:
1. Those unable to spend $250 on a mini - Apple suddenly makes profit off a segment of the market they were unable to engage before.
2. Those unwilling to spend $250 on a mini b/c:
a. They don't see value in a mini - Again, apple makes a profit off a segment of the market previously not engaged.
b. They don't understand this whole mp3 craze - Apple gets to introduce the product line and lifestyle to a new segment of the market
3. Those with the desire for a very small mp3 player, under a gig, who don't need massive storage b/c:
a. They already have an iPod - no lost ipod sales here
b. The lifestyle they lead lends itself to a small player b/c they:
i. Would only use it when exercising
ii. Don't have much time they would us it, e.g. they have a short commute - again, people that weren't buying even a mini before
4. Geeks who float around on Mac rumor forums, love apple products like a fat kid loves cake and
a. Have money to burn
b. Don't have money to burn but buy the stuff anyway
If you're curious, I would fall into categories 4b.
ok, let's review here. Apple introduces the original 5 GB ipod. People think it is a joke, nobody will want one of these. Turns into a revolution.
Apple introduces an iPod mini. it's too small and too expensive, it'll never work. Apple can't build them fast enough.
Flash based iPod? NOOOOO!! They will dilute their market share and people won't think I'm cool anymore b/c I dropped 5 bills on my ipod. Besides, nobody wants one of these...
That issue notwithstanding, let me offer the suggestion that those of us who are big enough geeks to float around on a mac rumors website would not be the target audience for such a product.
A cheap flash based ipod would be aimed at:
1. Those unable to spend $250 on a mini - Apple suddenly makes profit off a segment of the market they were unable to engage before.
2. Those unwilling to spend $250 on a mini b/c:
a. They don't see value in a mini - Again, apple makes a profit off a segment of the market previously not engaged.
b. They don't understand this whole mp3 craze - Apple gets to introduce the product line and lifestyle to a new segment of the market
3. Those with the desire for a very small mp3 player, under a gig, who don't need massive storage b/c:
a. They already have an iPod - no lost ipod sales here
b. The lifestyle they lead lends itself to a small player b/c they:
i. Would only use it when exercising
ii. Don't have much time they would us it, e.g. they have a short commute - again, people that weren't buying even a mini before
4. Geeks who float around on Mac rumor forums, love apple products like a fat kid loves cake and
a. Have money to burn
b. Don't have money to burn but buy the stuff anyway
If you're curious, I would fall into categories 4b.
TWinbrook46636 said:
jesuscandle said:
I would hardly call the iBooks upgraded, the only plus I see is built in AE. I'm just pissed that apple is retarding an entire line of notbooks because they'll be "too powerefull". I'm wating for the ipod mini inspired 12" ibooks with 1 ghz G5 and radeon X600 Mobility 64 MB. The powerbooks could have 1.4-1.8 ghz G5's and Radeon X900's. Theres a nice gap between them and there both massive upgrades from the G4. 1ghz G5 shouldn't be to hot.
I'm not even gonna touch all this iPod crazyness.
last thing bout the flash ipods, if they only got 128-256 MB that "revolutionary scrool wheel" would be kind useless wouldnt it....? scrolling throught all 20 of your songs. probly have 4 buttons + volume i would guess.
SiliconAddict said:
I completely agree with you, and no offense taken. Perhaps the guts themselves are not revolutionary, however, as the old saying goes, "the sum is greater than the parts". I guess was referring to innovation in general, or in terms of the finished product. To me, the iPod is innovative - not because of its guts, but because of what Apple did with them and the vision they had. (Granted the click wheel is slightly innovative I would still say.) Perhaps I incorrectly cited "hardware innovation" when in actuality I was referring to the complete, finished product, and as the "hardware" appears in my hand or on my desk.
Fair enough?
Steamboatwillie said:
That is a link to current Apple Financial Ruslts, not future results. Current profits were made of $249 iPods, not $99 models.
Apple has stated publicly they dont think they can make money out of a $800 Mac, so they dont make one. Same would apply to a $99 iPod.
Some rumors (like the 15.4" PowerBook) although very enticing, will not happen.
The Red Wolf said:
what are you talking about?
i didn't see any need to involve myself into this discussion, but nobody here is making any rash comments about the direction of the iPod except for you.
take a chill pill and relax.
wrldwzrd89 said:Now don't you go stealing my posts, toughboy...
Well this makes us two people who has the same genuine idea, maybe Apple's gonna listen to us.. I misused the word ram then... well what I meant was that, the iPod Micro wont have the spinning hard disk drive but will have a 'flash' drive
I can get a 1GB CF module for around 60EUR, thats something like $78. Apple would be able to buy them in bulk for $30 - $50. Add display, portal player chip, battery and packaging and you arrive at something like $99 - production price.
There is no way Apple is going to offer an iPod family member for $99 in the near future. Target price for a 1-2GB flash-based iPod light (or 'lite' as marketing will dictate) would be $129 - $179, my personal estimate would be 2GB for $179.
However, the reported rumor does not fit in too great. Apple could save on R&D costs if they took the system layout from the minis and swap the microdrive for a solid-state CF. If they went this route, they would certainly not need any flash controllers from SigmaTel, since the portal player chip has a CF interface already.
To go with Sigma, they'd need to use their STMP35, a single-chip decoder capable of mp3 and WMA. AAC? FireWire? Not mentioned. Obviously, Apple is a large enough customer that Sigma would add AAC + Fairplay at their request, but Apple would still need to port the whole iPod OS to this new platform *and* convince customers that they don't need FireWire any longer.
Maybe we should be more skeptical about this whole rumor. MacRumors is quoting iPodLounge which reference an article in MacWorld which, in turn quotes MacObserver. MO quotes Pflaum as saying:
Personally, I believe this should be a page 2 rumor since none of the publications seems to have any independant corroberation, only this Pflaum guy is quoted all along.
There is no way Apple is going to offer an iPod family member for $99 in the near future. Target price for a 1-2GB flash-based iPod light (or 'lite' as marketing will dictate) would be $129 - $179, my personal estimate would be 2GB for $179.
However, the reported rumor does not fit in too great. Apple could save on R&D costs if they took the system layout from the minis and swap the microdrive for a solid-state CF. If they went this route, they would certainly not need any flash controllers from SigmaTel, since the portal player chip has a CF interface already.
To go with Sigma, they'd need to use their STMP35, a single-chip decoder capable of mp3 and WMA. AAC? FireWire? Not mentioned. Obviously, Apple is a large enough customer that Sigma would add AAC + Fairplay at their request, but Apple would still need to port the whole iPod OS to this new platform *and* convince customers that they don't need FireWire any longer.
Maybe we should be more skeptical about this whole rumor. MacRumors is quoting iPodLounge which reference an article in MacWorld which, in turn quotes MacObserver. MO quotes Pflaum as saying:
Someone merely trying to boost Sigma share value?
Personally, I believe this should be a page 2 rumor since none of the publications seems to have any independant corroberation, only this Pflaum guy is quoted all along.
Apple shouldn't dilute the product line/franchise
The iPod mini is a logical addition to the iPod franchise. A flash device doesn't fit into the iPod strategy (IMO). I think the functionality and OS for the iPod (in conjunction with iTunes) would not work with a flash device, as most people have a heap of music on their computers. Also, would a flash player really support the iTunes Music Store (or vica versa) and who wants to manage songs on a flash player every day? I mean, you have a very limited numbe of songs and would want variety and therfore need to change songs loaded. I hope Apple doesn't go the flash player avenue, just bring the price down on the iPod mini and get the low end consumers.
The iPod mini is a logical addition to the iPod franchise. A flash device doesn't fit into the iPod strategy (IMO). I think the functionality and OS for the iPod (in conjunction with iTunes) would not work with a flash device, as most people have a heap of music on their computers. Also, would a flash player really support the iTunes Music Store (or vica versa) and who wants to manage songs on a flash player every day? I mean, you have a very limited numbe of songs and would want variety and therfore need to change songs loaded. I hope Apple doesn't go the flash player avenue, just bring the price down on the iPod mini and get the low end consumers.
Given that the XM site requires the Win version of IE to listen online I heartily doubt an XMiPod is on the horizon. It would be cool, but not gonna happen.
3 reasons for an iPod/Flash
There are three good reasons for a flash-based iPod priced under $150:
1. Price - I personally know people who are looking for music players that are unwilling to spend $250+ for an iPod. I'm sure a *lot* of parents doing Xmas shopping would also be interested in getting their kids one of these at this point.
2. No-skip. While I haven't personally had a problem running with my mini (green), but I do know a lot of people who are concerned with running with a hard drive.
3. Expand the market for AAC/Fairplay. Surprisingly I didn't see this mentioned yet, but assuming 1&2 led to increased market share for Apple, then this would also greatly help Apple in the music standards war. IMO, this is really the best reason to offer a lower-end music player.
There are three good reasons for a flash-based iPod priced under $150:
1. Price - I personally know people who are looking for music players that are unwilling to spend $250+ for an iPod. I'm sure a *lot* of parents doing Xmas shopping would also be interested in getting their kids one of these at this point.
2. No-skip. While I haven't personally had a problem running with my mini (green), but I do know a lot of people who are concerned with running with a hard drive.
3. Expand the market for AAC/Fairplay. Surprisingly I didn't see this mentioned yet, but assuming 1&2 led to increased market share for Apple, then this would also greatly help Apple in the music standards war. IMO, this is really the best reason to offer a lower-end music player.
I agree with everything you said, but you're forgetting one very important thing: the DRM format. Microsloth will soon have their own online music store up and running. Forget how much it will suck compared to iTMS, M$ doesn't care about making money on music, they are getting into the market for one reason and one reason only: to protect WMA and destroy AAC/Fairplay.Avicdar said:
Apple is going to need to take steps (and possibly make compromises) to protect AAC eventually. So far they haven't had to because they have a superior product, but that could very well soon change. The real WMA vs. AAC war is coming, and soon. So anything that Apple can do right now to lock more people into its own format while they still can (a very Microsoftian concept, admittedly), the better it is for them. A few extra percentage points in format acceptance now could translate into a huge lead later on, and a long extension of Apple's dominance in the market.