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XM

I love xm. If they could just hold off on it, and make it smaller. If you could have all hte xm features on an ipod that would be the best thing on the market for hsure.
 
Steamboatwillie said:
1gb USB drives retail for about $99.00 :

I would imagine that a 1gb flash based iPod is feasible. I would imagine also that the price might be somewhere in the range of $99 to $149

Pure speculation on my behalf fueled by the fact that 1gb worth of RAM (retail) on a USB device is $99 then the raw memory (bought in bulk at wholesale prices) is possibly two thirds the cost for Apple? I'm making up these numbers and have no facts to back them. Please comment if you have experience in wholesale memory pricing.

1GB Flash-based iPod minis. New colors (purple, orange, red and/or yellow) to differenciate from the 4GB HD-based iPod minis. Only 129$US (or is it 149$US?).
 
ClimbingTheLog said:
No way will there be a flash-based iPod while prices are this high.

A 4GB flash is $250. A 2GB flash is $150. Anything smaller and you're just carrying around a few albums, and an MP3-CD unit for $39 is where you're going to find the value.

When a 4GB flash is $50 (2 years) there may be a flash-based iPod.

If there's a flash-based iPod for Christmas I'll leave the country. Oh, wait, I'm not Alec Baldwin.

MP3-CD units are WAY too big to be nearly as useful as an iPod mini (or even regular iPod). And don't forget that consumer prices are always higher than manufacturing prices. If we pay 150$US for 2GB Flash, Apple may be able to pay 99$US for the same 2GB.

In fact, I'll even revise my earlier post:

2GB Flash-based iPod mini: 149$US.
 
rlw said:
I know that Jobs said Apple was not considering a flash iPod. However, I think that Apple will introduce one. Reasons:

1-Takes the iPod into a new market. Some people will not buy a player unless it is much cheaper than the current iPods.

2-Introduces folks to the iPod brand - folks that might upgrade later (like BMW offering a cheaper car to get people hooked).

3-Great add-on product for existing iPodders. Having a 40-60GB for travel, home, etc AND a 1GB flash based for working out...that is a dream.

And...the kicker...all of the above help kill the competition.

I agree. No one has talked about this, I have a 40 gig G3 pod but that cost me big cash, now i want to get one for my daughter, she's only 10 there's no way i'm even gonna pay $249 for an iPod mini but I'd have no prob. paying $99.00 for a flash player. I mean parents have been paying that much for gameboys for forever. I think the kid market could be huge, and even though we've got 25 gigs of music she only listens to a small amount of it and would have fun managing her players memory.
 
I would be excited if apple came out with a flash player. That would be better for my jogging cuz flash players have less moving parts. After my 20 min buffer runs out, it stalls and plays a random song in the playlist.
 
The postings here have really made me think...

What about a flash-based iMac? It could retail for less than $200 and would appeal to all those kids who can't afford a $1299 G5. It would use a G3 and stripped-down version of OS X, or maybe even OS 7.5. Think of all the people who would fall in love with the Mac and go out and buy a dual 2.5 G5. You could sell it in bright colors. Maybe Apple could come up with some co-branding deal with Playskool.
 
guez said:
What about a flash-based iMac? It could retail for less than $200 and would appeal to all those kids who can't afford a $1299 G5. It would use a G3 and stripped-down version of OS X, or maybe even OS 7.5. Think of all the people who would fall in love with the Mac and go out and buy a dual 2.5 G5. You could sell it in bright colors. Maybe Apple could come up with some co-branding deal with Playskool.

NO, that will NEVER happen. remember hot wheels edition pc's? it's appealing to little kids. but their parents usually wont buy it because they would rather let their kids share their own computer. The success of the imac recently is due to iLife. You couldn't run iLife on a flash based G3 imac. It would be a step back in time.

but at least you are thinking outside the box...

😎


haha, i think you said that just for shock value. you weren't serious...
 
i was thking about the flash based ipod, and like i said before, i think motorola will be coming out with a new version of the V3 razor. it will feature 528 mb storage and have a way to replace that with up to a gig. I really hope this happens, because i want a new cell phone and might be willing to pay $800 for a nice phone. the ironic thing is that anyone who can afford that phone can surely afford the ipods. so it wouldn't hit their under $200 market at all. Someone said that they have a v3 razor, but its not even available in stores yet? i know you can get it off ebay and a couple other sites as an import, but that means they still need to release it here soon. I saw one site that said it would be released in autumn this year. then another that said first half of 2005. Which one is correct??? itunes has already been developed for the phone, but it hasnt shipped with it yet and isnt available to anyone. damn motorola always screws things up!!!!! 😡 😉 sorry for the rant....
 
themacman said:
I love xm. If they could just hold off on it, and make it smaller. If you could have all hte xm features on an ipod that would be the best thing on the market for hsure.

Isn't that just a US thing? Never heard of it over here in the UK/EU...
 
corywoolf said:
The success of the imac recently is due to iLife.

I've wondered to what extent the success of the iMac should be attributed to iLife, and I think it's one of about four factors. I'd like to see some customer research on this.

1. iLife's appeal to first-time Mac purchasers
2. iPod owners who want to move further inland
3. mounting virus and spyware problems with Windows
4. the cool factor (related partly to iPod)

There may be other factors, but I would suspect that these are all significant.

Given the iPod factor, Tuesday's announcement should tell us a lot about strategy going forward. Apple demonstrated this week that they are willing to put a laptop in your hands for $1,000; let's see if we get a sub-$200 iPod to go with it.
 
bommai said:
I just bought a 1 GB CF card for $72. 2GB are about $130. In bulk, I am sure Apple can manage a lot lower price. I don't see why you cannot have a $99 1GB flash player. However, if Apple want's to even go that low is the question!

-Siva

A couple of prices I see just looking around a bit:
* SanDisk 256 MB CompactFlash ($60: Best Buy)
* SanDisk 512 MB CompactFlash ($70: best Buy)
* Lexar 1 GB CompactFlash ($103: Amazon)
* SanDisk 1 GB CompactFlash ($110: Best Buy)
* Lexar 2 GB Compact Flash ($201: Amazon)
* SanDisk 4 GB CompactFlash ($450: Best Buy)

Now compare other players (Best Buy):
* iRiver 256 MB ($150)
* Philips Nike 256 MB ($180)
* iRiver 512 MB ($200)
* SanDisk 512 MB ($200)
* Philips Nike 512 MB ($250)
* SanDisk 1 GB ($230)

So a competitively priced 256 MB iPod would be $149, and a 512 iPod would be $200. The SanDisk 1 GB is only $20 cheaper than the 4 GB iPod mini. Unless there are gigantic margins in these players, there's just nowhere to wedge a 2 GB iPod between a $200 512 MB player and a $250 4 GB player.

No way in hell is Apple going to get into the 128/256/512 market. If Apple comes out with a sub-4 GB iPod mini, it would very likely be $149, $199 or $229. And Apple can berely keep the 4 GB mini on the shelf at $249, so why mark it down now? There's just nowhere to go in the middle.

If prices are dropping fast enough to upgrade the mini to 6 GB or 8 GB without changing the price, I might could see Apple making a market share grab at the $149 or $200 price point with a 2 GB or 4 GB player. But, again, they can't keep the mini on the shelf at $249; it's tough call.
 
A Thought.

My perceptions..

1. iPod is a high-branded product. It cost Apple to come where they are now, and its highly important that Jobs keeps this.
2. iPod's brand image and value is worth more than the revenue it currently creates. Maintainance.
3. iPod's basis is on music, not on other random stuff.
4. However Jobs, being a human, wants more money.
5. To do this, he needs market share.
6. iPod's current market share with regards to HD MP3, 90%, and Total, 70%.
7. To grab on to the rest of the 30%, he needs to enter the Flash market with the iPod.
8. To achieve this, Apple has to very careful. To mess with iPod's brand image would be literally doing a heart operation on Cupertino itself. Very very volatile.
9. First, as far as pricing goes, the iPod micro, must be kept on the high end of the scale. Jobs cannot afford to lose brand value. If he drops the iPod micro to $99, he's being very risky. He doesn't need the "poor-people" to buy iPods. He needs the middle to upper people to buy iPods. This retains brand value. Very very very imporant. A 59" Porsche 550A Spyder in a mint condition nowadays is only highly priced (ridiculously priced) because of its brand value and exclusivity. Sames goes for the rest. Take the Rolls for example. If they suddenly came to take on more market share, they would have to release a low-end Rolls. (low-end in Rolls-Royce terms would be around a 3 series BMW). That means pricing the low-end Rolls around the 5-series BMW range. Why? Because if every Tom Dick and Harry had a Rolls, it would't be a Rolls-Royce anymore. Brand value. Again, its very important for a company like Apple to retain this. It all comes down to desire. If one sees someone else with an iPod, and if they know how much it costs, and if they want one, they will aspire to have one. Something is only desirable when its difficult to acquire.
10. Apple's brand value went up this year. They owe it to Jobs and iPod. If they mess with iPod's brand image, its value will plummet, and consequently Apple.
11. So, keeping that in mind, they need to keep the price level up. Remember, if everyone was walking around with an iPod, and if it was cheap, if it became the point where "Agh, I can get if I wanted to, it costs nothing" then iPod brand value is no longer valuble. It has to be "Ooh, I want one, but its just so expensive...I'll save up" This creates brand value. Currently, the way Apple has made iPod something a product that someone would still buy even though it's expensive, is highly highly difficult for any company to do. Jobs would not want to lose that.
12. This means we eliminate affordable $99-$125 range. We end up in Apple's world of "cheap", which is $149. They will never have a $200 Flash player, they cannot retain enough market share to compensate for the high price. They need more high-school kids with their saved pocket money, entering the mini stores and giving away money. Not a lot of people will give two benjamins for a puny MP3 player. Another reason? Its getting too close to the iPod mini, that means, if they give an iPod mini upgrade, the price has to come down slightly, which jeopardises the iPod micro's price. Being on the safe side.
13. The New iPod micro. 250 Songs on your finger. For only $149.
14. With regards to space, its going to 1GB. They're not going to push it to a 512, nor a 2GB. The current available 1GB flash is around $99. Perfect. 1 is a very neutral number. 512? Its a little complex. 2GB? Too expensive for Jobs to keep a low price. Another reason for 512 not being a candidate is because that would also touching on iPod's brand image. People regard iPod as a MP3 player with lots of songs. They mess with that, they mess with iPod. The more the better.
15. That means, all in all, if they do bring, and thats a big IF, a iPod micro, its going to be a 1GB that costs $149. Still too pricey? Well thats Apple marketing and branding.
16. They buy their Flash for around $50, then add their costs to add in Tech, then you're left with $50 or $40. Thats still a lot left.
17. So say, you have $40~$50 * 1,000,000 units sold during Christmas, with MASS advertising around the Northern Hemisphere, push that to 2,000,000. You've got around $100,000,000 pure profit. Now thats marketing at its best. The end of 2004 is going to give Apple a very very Merry Christmas. Not to mention the $999 iBooks.
18. This at the end of day, made Apple successful on two major fronts. Taking control of the Flash MP3 market, which makes them 90% dominant in the MP3 market, which is what Jobs precisely wants. He wants iPod to be synonymous pronoun with the term MPEG-1 Layer 3 Audio Music Player. Also talking care of the 10-17 yearold market, where kids with their own pocket money, and those younger ones who will start believing in Santa Clause even more.
17. With the iPod, iPod mini, and now the iPod micro, The iPod will ensure Apple's complete and utter power in the MP3 player market.
18. iPodomination. 😉
 
Blue Velvet said:
Isn't that just a US thing? Never heard of it over here in the UK/EU...

That's correct. It's only licensed in the U.S. Satellite Radio for the rest of the world is under WorldSpace Satellite Radio.

I highly doubt there will be any integration with the iPod the reasons being that on xm411 (which someone else mentioned and that I'm a long time member of), there's the portable Roady 2 device that will be released by Delphi.

Secondly, XM Satellite Radio already signed an agreement with Microsoft and Dell for their XM Radio Online music streaming service using Windows Media Player, etc. While getting with Apple/iTunes/iPod would be awesome, it's not likely and unfortunate, too.
 
guez said:
What about a flash-based iMac? It could retail for less than $200 and would appeal to all those kids who can't afford a $1299 G5. It would use a G3 and stripped-down version of OS X, or maybe even OS 7.5. Think of all the people who would fall in love with the Mac and go out and buy a dual 2.5 G5. You could sell it in bright colors. Maybe Apple could come up with some co-branding deal with Playskool.

I can’t tell if you are being facetious or not. Why don’t people get this!? Flash != cheap. Flash == low end of the product line.
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a flash based player as long as it can store enough songs to keep a person going for a day. Any device smaller then an iPod mini isn’t intended to store a person’s entire collection. Its intended to allow a person to take their music with them. Someone wants to go to the gym for a few hours. Someone is taking a 3 hour road trip. Someone is going to be sitting at work setting up a server. 🙄 *sighs* Etc. All of these examples a person is more likely to create a playlist and go. Think of this as a replacement to needing to burn a CD every time you leave the house. 100 songs in your pocket (512MB) or 200 songs in your pocket (1GB) is going to be enough to keep someone going for a day. Its catering to a different market.

Traditional ipod = all your tracks wherever you go.
Flash iPod = Select tracks wherever you go.

It’s a breakaway from what the iPod has traditionally been seen as but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be a solid product. Hell if they bring one out and its cheap enough I may very well get one along with my 60GB iPod. 🙂
 
eSnow said:
Maybe we should be more skeptical about this whole rumor. MacRumors is quoting iPodLounge which reference an article in MacWorld which, in turn quotes MacObserver. MO quotes Pflaum as saying:

Mr. Pflaum is estimating such a manufacturing deal with Apple could be a US$2 to $4 million revenue opportunity for SigmaTel. "The forecast is conservative at best," he told TMO.

Someone merely trying to boost Sigma share value?

Personally, I believe this should be a page 2 rumor since none of the publications seems to have any independant corroberation, only this Pflaum guy is quoted all along.

I could not agree more. This very low cost, flash-memory-based iPod "rumor" is just plain wacky. I suspect that "analyst" Pflaum is completely misguided.
 
Porchland said:
Now compare other players (Best Buy):
* iRiver 256 MB ($150)
* Philips Nike 256 MB ($180)
* iRiver 512 MB ($200)
* SanDisk 512 MB ($200)
* Philips Nike 512 MB ($250)
* SanDisk 1 GB ($230)
If companies like iRiver and Philips can't sell a 512mb flash player built on cheap-ass parts for under $200, how in hell is Apple gonna sell an 1 gb iPod with a metal body, touch-sensitive scroll wheel, a 138x110 resolution display, and dock connector for $150?

You guys are absolutely ABSURD. If Apple could make a device that cheap, they would. Steve has said so himself. Apple's trying to make it as cheap as possible to get it into as many hands as possible. But Apple is NOT gonna compromise on the quality of the product. Look, cheaper players have been around forever. But it's the iPod that people are buying. Just because people are cheap and can't afford to spend more than $150 on a music player doesn't mean that Apple needs to cater to that market. Apple owns 68% of the ENTIRE mp3 market, including cheapo $50 flash players. What more do you want???
 
verces said:
18. This at the end of day, made Apple successful on two major fronts. Taking control of the Flash MP3 market, which makes them 90% dominant in the MP3 market, which is what Jobs precisely wants. He wants iPod to be synonymous pronoun with the term MPEG-1 Layer 3 Audio Music Player. Also talking care of the 10-17 yearold market, where kids with their own pocket money, and those younger ones who will start believing in Santa Clause even more.
17. With the iPod, iPod mini, and now the iPod micro, The iPod will ensure Apple's complete and utter power in the MP3 player market.
18. iPodomination. 😉

I agree generally but think a push by Apple in the flash player market has more to do with format and FUTURE market share than pure shre of the flash player market. I mean: I think Apple is more concerned about first-time player purchasers choosing AAC (iPod) then buying a WMA player and being potentially lost to iPod forever.

Face it, you're going to be the Avril Lavigne CD once: the actual disc, WMA or AAC. Converting WMA-player owners to AAC/iPod is going to get increasingly difficult has more player owners have a significant library of DMR'd tracks.

I think any push into the flash player market is more about a landgrab for AAC than pure market share. That said, a cheaper iPod could be a loss-leader for Apple; get them in the door for less, and they'll buy a higher-margin iPod the next time.
 
dongmin said:
Just because people are cheap and can't afford to spend more than $150 on a music player doesn't mean that Apple needs to cater to that market.

That's just not true. As I've posted in this thread, this is a critical market for Apple. A $150 iRiver purchasers today is going to be a harder sell six months from now than someone who's buying their first device.

Assuming WMA and AAC continue to be mutually exclusive, paid downloads are going to become an increasingly significant factor. The bigger a user's paid library gets, the higher the hurdle to getting him to switch.
 
corywoolf said:
it will feature 528 mb storage

Sorry to be picky, but where in the heck do you get 528 mb storage? I think you mean to say 512, right? 🙂

And since I'm being picky, you probably meant to say "MB" instead of "mb". MB = mega bytes. mb = milli bits.
 
guez said:
What about a flash-based iMac? It could retail for less than $200 and would appeal to all those kids who can't afford a $1299 G5. It would use a G3 and stripped-down version of OS X, or maybe even OS 7.5. Think of all the people who would fall in love with the Mac and go out and buy a dual 2.5 G5. You could sell it in bright colors. Maybe Apple could come up with some co-branding deal with Playskool.

Put down the Crack Pipe NOW!!!
 
dejo said:
Sorry to be picky, but where in the heck do you get 528 mb storage? I think you mean to say 512, right? 🙂

And since I'm being picky, you probably meant to say "MB" instead of "mb". MB = mega bytes. mb = milli bits.

haha no, i think it will be 528 mb 😉

(jk, thats what i meant)
 
TWinbrook46636 said:
iMac
-6%

iBook
-1%

PowerMac
-10%

PowerBook
-3%

iPod
+134%

And that's your entire post?! Okay then:

Red
+98%

Purple
-78%

My cousin Steve's car
+753.23%

A diseased yak
0EFF %

See, you're not the only one who can quote a bunch of numbers and not provide any explanation whatsoever to their relevance. 😛 😎
 
SiliconAddict said:
If Apple could come out with a cheap $99 player that EVERYONE could afford they would all but lock up the market. The reality is that there are a ton of people that aren't in the market for a hard drive player and the price of even an iPod mini is overkill. If Apple doesn't do something to close this hole they will face the same problem they are facing with their computer line vs cheap PC's. Apple advocates can bitch all they want about how this wouldn't aid Apple's bottom line. We aren't talking the bottom line here. We are talking about maintaining market share of iTMS which in return aids the iPod since we are talking about a complete system here. Since Apple has made the conscious decision of saying we are going at this alone (Dude HP is just a redistributer. They aren't making their own device.) Apple has to offer a total solution for not only the high end (60GB) Medium range (20GB) but also the low range. (512MB-1GB)
The low end is a viable market where Apple CAN make money. Just not nearly as much as the hard drive iPod. Time to face reality. Either build the product or face eroding online download sales due to these cheap players. Which will over time eat at iTMS sales.

Indeed. We need to close the hole on the WMA/Microsoft threat (sorry, but Sony's was out of the picture before it even began). And even if the profits are lower on low-cost iPods (say, 1GB Flash iPod mini), they'll sell so many, in the end they'll make more profits overall.
 
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