iPod Touch: 'Negative Black' Screen Issue

[Fluffymuff]

People on that YouTube discussion are saying they're canceling their Touch orders.

This is no time to be an Apple apologist; we must hold Apple's feet to the fire until they smell like a delicious baked apple.

You are making me want to go out and buy a Touch just to get that deliciously baked apple smell.

I don't think Apple is plagued by more quality control issues now than before, it's just that their volume is so much greater overall, that if there is a 1% problem, 1% is a thousand times bigger than it was before. And everyone's watching...

 

[Scarpad]

Did you ever stop to think that maybe it had a weak wireless connection. I mean you were at Best Buy for goodness sakes. Everyone says if you have a strong connection then Safari should be plenty fast.

the connection was srong but i'm cancelling mainly for the screen.

 

[Cloudane]

a little off topic, but how can apple charge £50 ($100) more for the same ipod touch in the UK??

The same reason every other manufacturer of any other product usually makes a $1=£1 conversion: because our government (well, I guess the EU) force them to. Importing products from outside the EU costs a lot of money (with the exception of a few small-time eBayers who illegally write "gift, value $30" on the package). Usually 17.5% VAT gets added on, plus import duty (varies... usually 5-10% I believe) plus the less visible costs of a big product being made for a smaller country.

Be thankful that Apple don't take the piss, as I've seen *much* worse, usually out of the likes of Sony. In this case I'm pretty sure they're literally only recouping their costs.

If you want to be able to boast (as a country) about having a strong currency, this is unfortunately the price we have to pay.

 

[queshy]

[...]Your sister should have looked into Apple's return policy. There is no restocking fee for a damaged (less than a day you say) computer! She should have tried to talk to the same sales rep. that sold her the computer and if she didn't know who that was, she should have had them look it up (that information is available) and if she was not satisfied, she should have contacted the manager.

Granted in a perfect situation, the computer would be perfect and if it wasn't then the employees at the store that sold it to her should be bending over backwards for her, but that's not always the case (a good friend of mine bought a Jeep Commander and paid cash for it. [...]

Slow down there...if you read the whole story (well, all of my posts in that thread), you might consider editing your post.

I don't want to debate Apple's customer service, either, because in general they are very good. But in my opinion a bad experience like this makes me canceling my touch order much more reasonable.

 

[pubius]

It is not really possible to dispute this problem anymore. This is far too widespread, massively reported, and I (a huge supporter of Apple) have the same problem. If you don't believe how widespread this is, have a look around (away from macrumors?).

The thread on apple's support/discussion/ipod touch about this has over 20k views, and that's just one thread about this, there are plenty of others.

Just for reference, this is the problem in all it's glory...
http://home.comcast.net/~audi-fan/IMG_5940.jpg
here is also a good comparison with the iphone...
http://www.apple-touch.com/ipod-touch-screen-problem-negative-black-effect-1534.php

I did a side by side (with an iphone) with this video (which is a pretty good reference)...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gyP8kEiHKxA

Now some people have been reporting that sometimes the problem (the negative, looks like you are looking at a screen wearing 3-d glasses thing) is there, then all of a sudden, they are somewhere else... and it's gone. So I tried out different situations...

We did the test by the window at my work (lots of natural light coming in), and presto!, the negative effect was gone! When just last night in a much darker situation (at my house) this scene was absolutely unbearable with the 3-d negative thing. Granted, the iphone still looked way better. My blacks washed into an ocean of blackness where all detail was gone while on the iphone i could totally make out the scenes. But I will go on record saying that there does seem to be an issue with the lighting of the room.

The worst thing about this is that people are going to the apple store under bright lights and these mighty apple folk are like 'i don't see much of a problem'... when there really is a problem.

Anyway, there is a real problem. I don't want to have to be in the perfect light at the perfect angle to view a product doing what it was designed to do.

Those of you with no problem, try it out in a darker situation, hopefully you'll still be all good, but... you never know.

p.s. - adjusting the brightness does nothing

 

[Fluffymuff]

How quickly they forget. There were problems with all of those products that you mention (G5 loud fans, PowerBooks and iBooks with there pre-MagSafe connectors, to name a few).

After the original 256k Mac, the 512 "fat" mac had an eating disorder. The first Apple laptop had a self-esteem problem, and the original iPod would tear up and cry for no apparent reason.

Not to be an apologist, but every company has problems, and given Apple's increasing size (Apple currently employs in excess of 200 full time workers, and at least half that amount again in part-timer workers) there's bound a loose screw here or there.

It may also be that the screens are alive, and the shimmering effect is an artifact of the bioluminescence of, say, dinoflagellates or some such genetically-altered organism coaxed to fluoresce for the sake of our media watching pleasure.

 

[chicagostars]

ahhh . . .

hmm. how many iphones have this happened to, or is it generally exclusive to the touch?

a little off topic, but how can apple charge £50 ($100) more for the same ipod touch in the UK??

i guess we're paying for all that iphone US instore credit...

. . . but the Pound is still destroying every other currency out there.

 

[La Porta]

After the original 256k Mac, the 512 "fat" mac had an eating disorder. The first Apple laptop had a self-esteem problem, and the original iPod would tear up and cry for no apparent reason.

Original Mac was 128k.

 

[Football1maniac]

The iPod Touch is not a crippled iPhone. If it had Bluetooth and Phone hardware built into it and had them disabled via software, then I would call it a crippled iPhone, but it does not.

Is the iPod Classic a crippled iPod Touch, because it doesn't have a touch screen? No, because it's not a feature of the product. So how can you call the iPod Touch a crippled iPhone. It does what's it's advertised to do.

If you really new more about the iPod touch upon it's launch than I would know in a lifetime (a bet I'm willing to take since you didn't know that the NFL website would crash it and I did, because it crashed in the iPhone...) then why didn't you know that it didn't support Flash?

Don't hold your breath for a rebate. You won't be seeing one. However, if there is a defect in your iPod Touch, I recommend that you get a new one and complain about it.

The iPod Classic is in a whole different type of marketing scheme then the iPod touch. If you want bigger storage, and don't care about the screen size, then the iPod classic is for you. But then again, do you even have an iPod touch? The iPod touch is a crippled iPhone. Period. What is the iPhone minus the phone? And about the NFL site, sure I knew that it wouldn't work because of Flash, but how did I know that it would freeze the whole device?! The rebate or some type of reimbursement will come if enough people demand for it. Just look at the darn iPhone.

 

[chicagostars]

true

You'll be waiting a long time.

People on this forum are never happy or satisfied. And like I said the majority of the people posting are the minority of the people buying the iPod Touch. The happy campers are too busy enjoying their new toys to post.

And the negative people in two weeks will be going gun ho about the "new" iPod Touch.

If I was you I would buy one (at an Apple Store) and if you don't like it return it, but make up your own mind.

I agree. Apple smart marks, sometimes there doesn't seems to be a reason for the gloomy comments other than to spread negativity. Even if the stated reasons for your criticisms were resolved, you would still find something to complain about.

 

[celavato]

Which screen series are you talking about? I haven't read any reports of the negative black issue on the iphone.

I have a "7" screen, but I don't think all 7 screens have this problem. I have read other reports -- see the Apple Discussion Forums. One guy said he bought an iPhone last week that has this problem. It does not seem as widespread as the touch. I'm bringing mine back now that the Geniuses will know what I'm talking about. I recommend you load a video that will clearly demonstrate this issue to the Genius.

 

[chicagostars]

hmmm

It is not really possible to dispute this problem anymore. This is far too widespread, massively reported, and I (a huge supporter of Apple) have the same problem. If you don't believe how widespread this is, have a look around (away from macrumors?).

The thread on apple's support/discussion/ipod touch about this has over 20k views, and that's just one thread about this, there are plenty of others.

Just for reference, this is the problem in all it's glory...
http://home.comcast.net/~audi-fan/IMG_5940.jpg
here is also a good comparison with the iphone...
http://www.apple-touch.com/ipod-touch-screen-problem-negative-black-effect-1534.php

I did a side by side (with an iphone) with this video (which is a pretty good reference)...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gyP8kEiHKxA

Now some people have been reporting that sometimes the problem (the negative, looks like you are looking at a screen wearing 3-d glasses thing) is there, then all of a sudden, they are somewhere else... and it's gone. So I tried out different situations...

We did the test by the window at my work (lots of natural light coming in), and presto!, the negative effect was gone! When just last night in a much darker situation (at my house) this scene was absolutely unbearable with the 3-d negative thing. Granted, the iphone still looked way better. My blacks washed into an ocean of blackness where all detail was gone while on the iphone i could totally make out the scenes. But I will go on record saying that there does seem to be an issue with the lighting of the room.

The worst thing about this is that people are going to the apple store under bright lights and these mighty apple folk are like 'i don't see much of a problem'... when there really is a problem.

Anyway, there is a real problem. I don't want to have to be in the perfect light at the perfect angle to view a product doing what it was designed to do.

Those of you with no problem, try it out in a darker situation, hopefully you'll still be all good, but... you never know.

p.s. - adjusting the brightness does nothing

Won't argue about this potentially being a big problem. It very well may be; however, I think we do have a problem where the general consensus within forums -- even within Apple's Support area -- is skewed by the negative comments of a few people who see it as their duty to try to exert power by swaying others with as much negativity as they can on the boards. Again, this is a potentially bad situation, exacerbated by the personal feelings that many of us have about Apple. As other posters have mentioned, the sheer increased volume of Apple products in the public space will likely increase the number of issues experienced. Also the ease with which we can share our grievances online does do something to heighten negative feelings.

I've read much to make me think and want to see for myself, the level of any problems with the screen. I want to know if this is a major 'defect' type of issue, or something that casual videophiles have an issue with, like the casual audiophiles a few years back who panned all sorts of digital audio compression.

P.S. Pubius, thanks for including links to document experiences. Not sure of the environments in which the pics were taken, but they do give an idea of things to look out for as each of us try to make our own informed choice.

 

[Camui]

Slow down there...if you read the whole story (well, all of my posts in that thread), you might consider editing your post.

I don't want to debate Apple's customer service, either, because in general they are very good. But in my opinion a bad experience like this makes me canceling my touch order much more reasonable.

Wow! That is definitely messed up. I'm glad you were able to get your sister a properly functioning laptop. I'm sorry both of you had to go through what you did to get one that worked correctly though.

My younger brother bought a 16GB Touch on Saturday. From the couple minutes I looked at a video on it, I think it is one of the Touch's having problems. I'm planning to look at it again more closely tonight. I will post again after I have examined it much more carefully & closely.

 

[MacinDoc]

I was thinking of getting a Touch, but now I think I'll wait and see how this pans out...

Someone else mentioned this earlier, but maybe we'll start to see some refurb units. If we do, I'll take one or two...

Of course, the iPhone would be nicer, but it's still not available in Canada

 

[balwx]

I'm suprised how widespread this has become. There are plenty of reports, on the smaller forum also.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19087443-iPod-Touch-Contrast-Issues

As someone who is an Apple supporter I am concerned about the lack of quality control issues with this product. I also have a financial interest in this company so I am concerned how Apple will handle this & if sales may be affected. I hope there is a quick solution.

 

[w0ngbr4d]

What is the iPhone minus the phone?

One of the best media players on the market?

I've been waiting for this iPod since the rumors first started. Yeah it doesn't have all the features of the iPhone. But what is the use of having an iPhone when I can't make calls on it? What use will weather/stocks/email/maps/etc have when I don't have data coverage? None.

This iPod is perfect for what it will be used for, a media player. Nothing more, nothing less. Wifi and Safari are an added bonus which I could have lived without.

It depends on what you want the device to do. Apple can't please everyone. You want the PDA functionality? Get iPhone. You want a media player with the best interface available? Get iPod Touch. They are two separate products that share a common form factor, thats it.

 

[pubius]

p.s. - despite my lengthy post on this blackness issue. i, as someone who did not have an iphone, was pretty floored by the power of this device. things have come quite a long way, they'll only get better.

 

[whatever]

The iPod Classic is in a whole different type of marketing scheme then the iPod touch. If you want bigger storage, and don't care about the screen size, then the iPod classic is for you. But then again, do you even have an iPod touch? The iPod touch is a crippled iPhone. Period. What is the iPhone minus the phone? And about the NFL site, sure I knew that it wouldn't work because of Flash, but how did I know that it would freeze the whole device?! The rebate or some type of reimbursement will come if enough people demand for it. Just look at the darn iPhone.

No, the iPod Touch is not a crippled iPhone.

They don't even share the same size and weight. Why, because they are different devices. You cannot activate features from an iPod Touch to make it a iPhone. Thus, the iPod Touch although it might look the same and share features of an iPhone is not a "crippled" iPhone.

An iPhone without the phone still has Edge, e-mail, web widgets and Bluetooth. Now believe it or not those are the features which actually made the iPhone a better purchase for me. I'm the first one to state that Edge kind of sucks, however it's perfect for updating widgets for me when I don't have WiFi.

If you knew so much about the iPod Touch, then like me you would have compared the feature set of the iPod Touch vs the iPhone. And if you really wanted those features not included in the iPod Touch, then you should have bought an iPhone (they cost the same).

 

[Football1maniac]

No, the iPod Touch is not a crippled iPhone.

They don't even share the same size and weight. Why, because they are different devices. You cannot activate features from an iPod Touch to make it a iPhone. Thus, the iPod Touch although it might look the same and share features of an iPhone is not a "crippled" iPhone.

An iPhone without the phone still has Edge, e-mail, web widgets and Bluetooth. Now believe it or not those are the features which actually made the iPhone a better purchase for me. I'm the first one to state that Edge kind of sucks, however it's perfect for updating widgets for me when I don't have WiFi.

If you knew so much about the iPod Touch, then like me you would have compared the feature set of the iPod Touch vs the iPhone. And if you really wanted those features not included in the iPod Touch, then you should have bought an iPhone (they cost the same).

Even the vice president of Apple agreed that the same OS is on both products. When I was browsing the Internet on it, a web page came up saying "This Web Page Is Not Supported By iPhone" The same characteristics are there, and no they are not the same price. Go add a $37 activation fee, and $20 more bucks a month to maintain an iPhone. For the iPod touch? Nada. Zipp, nothing. Get a 16GB iPod touch for the same price for a 8GB iPhone, there is no comparison. Go ahead and use the crappy EDGE network, and complain about that. Yeah, I can agree with you on the widgets, but still, can't they put in anyway? Go ahead and get mad at me all you want, but the iPhone minus the phone = the iPod touch. But probably the most positive thing about the iPod touch is this: they got rid of the worst part of the iPhone with the iPod touch. That is AT&T.

 

[seelab]

Ok, my 16 Gb iPod touch has been cancelled

 

[AppleFan08]

Finally! Some publicity about this matter...Hopefully Steve reads the times on his iPhone Deluxe with mind reading capabilities and 1TB flash drive?

 

[Camui]

OK! I'm back! My younger brother's iPod Touch is definitely having the 'negative black' issue. He purchased his at Best Buy, so we are going to wait and see what Apple does/says because of Best Buy's 30 Day Return Policy.

 

[applejilted]

I just cancelled my order for a Touch. I was already less than impressed about the crippling of features (Mail, Notes, Calender, Widgets). I was fine with the lack of Bluetooth and Camera.

If looks like Apple really only included Safari so that you could log onto website-authenticated networks - I bet they would have stripped that out too if they could have. For those of us who already have iPods, not including PDA capabilities really reduces the desirability to upgrade.

These screen quality issues were the tipping point - why take a chance.

PS: The Canadian Exchange rates are also awful - 12.5% higher on 16 GB model.. should be no more than 5% (current exchange rates are ~3%).

The Canadian exchange rate is the one issue seemingly flying under the radar and big corporations (especially auto manufacturers) are absolutely FLEECING consumers .....shame on you Apple ... shame on us for not holding retailers and manufacturers accountable for this .... we only have ourselves to blame .... Canadians have always been known to be too nice (non revolutionary types vis à vis our US friends) .... vote with your wallet refuse to buy a company's products until they charge a fair and reasonable exchange rate.

Speaking of scandalous .... have any of you checked the data plans at Rogers and what they cost ???? No wonder there have been scores of petitions and web sites set up expressly to lobby Governments to have this changed ... that's why I'm disappointed with all the problems and dropped features of the Touch as this would have been the ideal unit in Canada ...I can't see myself owning an iPhone in Canada with our astronomically, exhorbitantly expensive data plans.

 

[whatever]

Even the vice president of Apple agreed that the same OS is on both products.

So if the CEO and Founder of Apple says that the iPhone uses the same OS as my Mac Pro, should I automatically start calling my iPhone a crippled Mac Pro?

Let's just agree that you're wrong and I'm right and be done with it <only joking>.

16GB iPhones will be announced in a couple of hours, so that should change everything (unless it's not announced and then everything stays the same).

But the last thing I'll say about the iPod Touch is that by stripping out the phone features and the Bluetooth features, the iPod Touch can never be a mobile phone.

 

[razorme]

The Canadian exchange rate is the one issue seemingly flying under the radar and big corporations (especially auto manufacturers) are absolutely FLEECING consumers .....shame on you Apple ... shame on us for not holding retailers and manufacturers accountable for this .... we only have ourselves to blame .... Canadians have always been known to be too nice (non revolutionary types vis à vis our US friends) .... vote with your wallet refuse to buy a company's products until they charge a fair and reasonable exchange rate.

Yes, automobile pricing in Canada is a farce. Apple has always lagged behind the exchange rate, but for the first time I can recall, they actually charged AT PAR for iLife '08 and iWork '08! They are $79 in both countries. But .Mac is $99 US versus $139 Cdn... they never seem to adjust the price on an item after it is released!