iPod Touch: 'Negative Black' Screen Issue

[razorme]

So if the CEO and Founder of Apple says that the iPhone uses the same OS as my Mac Pro, should I automatically start calling my iPhone a crippled Mac Pro?

But the last thing I'll say about the iPod Touch is that by stripping out the phone features and the Bluetooth features, the iPod Touch can never be a mobile phone.

Well, these are opinions, so neither side will give in! I used the word 'crippled' as I am convinced the absence of these programs is purely a marketing decision. This is an omission of existing SOFTWARE... of course software has a cost, but it is not the same as having different hardware.

I think the iPod touch is an awesome iPod for someone in the market - but for someone like me who already has bought 4 since they came out, I would prefer something that could also save me a few trips to the computer - often I am only looking at a couple websites and checking my email. I sure don't want the hassle of typing in my credentials each time using webmail for this simple task. Having Google maps would be excellent for when you need to check an address quick before leaving - I've woken up the computer many times for this solo task too.

Hardly essential requirements, but they would be features that make the iPod touch just that much more compelling and cool - knowing that Apple has made the best product they can. Instead, I feel that they will add these features later and screw the early adopters. I had no problem with the lack of bluetooth and camera hardware.

The iPod touch has a touch keyboard - is there any other device out there with a keyboard that does not have even a simple notes application? This is purposeful omission by Apple, and I will not support it!

Imagine that Address Book and Mail were integrated on the Mac Pro, but not if you owned an iMac. If you complained, would you want someone to say "Oh well, then buy a Mac Pro?". There is nothing to suggest the iPod touch is not completely capable of running those missing iPhone apps!

 

[whatever]

Well, these are opinions, so neither side will give in! I used the word 'crippled' as I am convinced the absence of these programs is purely a marketing decision. This is an omission of existing SOFTWARE... of course software has a cost, but it is not the same as having different hardware.

I think the iPod touch is an awesome iPod for someone in the market - but for someone like me who already has bought 4 since they came out, I would prefer something that could also save me a few trips to the computer - often I am only looking at a couple websites and checking my email. I sure don't want the hassle of typing in my credentials each time using webmail for this simple task. Having Google maps would be excellent for when you need to check an address quick before leaving - I've woken up the computer many times for this solo task too.

Hardly essential requirements, but they would be features that make the iPod touch just that much more compelling and cool - knowing that Apple has made the best product they can. Instead, I feel that they will add these features later and screw the early adopters. I had no problem with the lack of bluetooth and camera hardware.

The iPod touch has a touch keyboard - is there any other device out there with a keyboard that does not have even a simple notes application? This is purposeful omission by Apple, and I will not support it!

Imagine that Address Book and Mail were integrated on the Mac Pro, but not if you owned an iMac. If you complained, would you want someone to say "Oh well, then buy a Mac Pro?". There is nothing to suggest the iPod touch is not completely capable of running those missing iPhone apps!

Well (I thought I was done with this, but then I'm dragged back in), imagine you would buying a high end Mac Pro and discovering that software, such as Front Row and Photo Booth are actually included, but are not installed. Now that to me is "crippled". Having the functionally purposely disabled! I understand why, not everyone has an iSight or wishes to use their Mac Pro as a media machine, but ....

I agree that those apps are removed to differentiate the iPhone from the iPod Touch. Although all may not agree with this, it makes perfect sense. In my case Edge (well not really Edge, but beggars can't be choosers), e-mail and widgets was more important to me than 16GB. Just as for some people
160GB might be more important than a touch screen. Apple had to make decisions on how to market similar, yet different products to multiple groups of users without jeopardizing sales (I for one waited to see the iPod Touch, before finally getting an iPhone).

 

[Whistleway]

I remember seeing what happened between the early iMac G5 and later G5's thinking it was going downhill. True, it is in the inside of the case where most will never see it. But, I dunno, I've got respect for things that are architected well. It is like if you see your house being built and the contractors involved are using good, hand picked lumber and not cutting corners in places that will be theoretically hidden from view.

Larger size

Wow, that picture is worth a 1000 words. What has ever happened?

 

[amacisbetter]

This Sucks!

I was going to run out and get one of these great new iPods, but now I guess I will wait. It's almost like a tease. Now that I know how great they could be, I want one, but the displays suck right now so I have to wait to get one. Although waiting a month for Apple to work out the display problem surely won't kill me!

 

[maestrokev]

Typical apple store happenings. It's almost as if apple tells them never to acknowledge any problems! I've seen (or shall I say heard) mooing macbooks...it's definitely not normal!

Typical Apple Store? I'm starting to believe that Apple store geniuses are a joke! They obviously use that title very loosely

 

[maestrokev]

The Canadian exchange rate is the one issue seemingly flying under the radar and big corporations (especially auto manufacturers) are absolutely FLEECING consumers .....shame on you Apple ... shame on us for not holding retailers and manufacturers accountable for this .... we only have ourselves to blame .... Canadians have always been known to be too nice (non revolutionary types vis à vis our US friends) .... vote with your wallet refuse to buy a company's products until they charge a fair and reasonable exchange rate.

Speaking of scandalous .... have any of you checked the data plans at Rogers and what they cost ???? No wonder there have been scores of petitions and web sites set up expressly to lobby Governments to have this changed ... that's why I'm disappointed with all the problems and dropped features of the Touch as this would have been the ideal unit in Canada ...I can't see myself owning an iPhone in Canada with our astronomically, exhorbitantly expensive data plans.

Vote with our wallets and buy from the US! I can't believe how much cheaper electronics are in US vs Canada. What I don't understand is why they have a 30-40% duty on clothing purchased from the US when you cross the border back to Canada. Like we're protecting the clothing manufacturing business in Canada ... aren't they all in China or other 3rd world countries now???

Yeah, I don't know why Canadians are buying the iPhone. I'm not rushing out to pick one up until Fido/Rogers comes up with a decent data plan. $100 for 200MB is absurb (http://www.fido.ca/portal/en/domore/options.shtml)

 

[winterspan]

what?

Here's what my screen looks like. It's an absolute joke. These are made to watch movies on, we can't just overlook it. That's like buying a car that doesn't start, but it's such a cool car that we can just overlook that small defect. Apple needs to do something about this quickly. The only possible way to get a picture that's viewable at all is to do what us who own them are calling "The Tilt Move"...Tilt it up and to the left...

I can hear it now...

"...But there is one more thing. It's a new iPod with touch controls...and we're calling it the iPod Tilt."

Who said anyone is overlooking this issue?? Are there really people who are seriously considering not returning a $400 defective product???
Thats ludicrous! Seriously, I love (most) Apple products just as much as the next guy, but if you are not completely satisfied with what you purchased, TAKE IT BACK. GET A NEW ONE.

Not only would you be unnecessarily keeping a defective product, but you are actually worsening the problem by putting up with it, firstly by lowering the number of reported defective units, and secondly, by encouraging apple that you'll accept sub-standard quality from them in the future.

Everyone needs to take a vocal stand here so this problem gets fixed as soon as possible!

 

[winterspan]

chinese factories...

Apple needs to give those Chinese people a rase, I'm not joking. The quality control is really slipping.

First of all, the QA issues in chinese factories are widespread, and Apple does not control the wages of the employees. However, with everyone wanting the best products at the lowest prices, Things like this are going to happen.

 

[winterspan]

Ignorance

Man people are picky. I went to the Apple Store last week and didn't notice a thing when I played with them.

Obviously you either played with a unit that doesn't have the problem or more likely you didn't watch a movie/tv/etc on the device that had a dark black image. Either case, don't be such an ignorant tool. If this issue was a minor case of subjective image quality complaints, it wouldn't be so widespread. HAVE YOU EVEN BOTHERED TO LOOK AT THE PICTURES?? OR DID YOU JUST VOMIT OUT A COMMENT? This problem is VERY widespread in the Ipod touch and probably the new shipments of iPhones.
Its a hardware quality control issue and one that has been seen in other LCD screens in other products.

God I HATE IT when lazy people don't research THE FACTS, and just assume they know everything. And then to make a condescending comment about people being picky??? Are you kiddin me?

 

[Evangelion]

No, the iPod Touch is not a crippled iPhone.

As far as the software goes, it is. They took the exact same software iPhone uses, then spent time and resources to make it worse.

They don't even share the same size and weight. Why, because they are different devices.

There are real hardware-differences between the two, and that results in real differences in capabilities (lack of bluetooth and cell-phone for example). And I don't think anyone is disputing that.

true, SOME of the software-differences can be explained by differences in hardware, like removing everything related to the phone and bluetooth. But differences in hardware can NOT explain things like removal of notes, editable calendar or email.

 

[winterspan]

Apples evolution...

Oh yes those were the days. Everything Apple produced was perfect back then. Especially the famous PowerBook 5300. If only Apple could produce hardware like that now. Those were the days.

yea "those were the days".. you mean the days when Apple was going to go belly up and they had an ancient operating system (kind of like Palm Inc right now). Yes, some of the products were solid, but the company was barely floating. You have to remember that after SJ came back in and things got really popular (especially in the last few years) the scale went WAY UP.

In the whole conversation about the QA problems, no one really said anything about the HUGE VOLUME INCREASES Apple faces each year. Putting out millions of computers, displays, accessories, and now ipods and iphones is obviously incredibly difficult. So they have been having to grow their output exponentially while at the same time continuing to innovate and put out beautifully designed products while also trying to cut costs to shed the reputation for being overprice. I mean my god, I think they are doing alright. They will get these QA and scaling problems fixed over time.

 

[winterspan]

WHAT? you're too lazy to exchange it, but you want compensation??

My new iPod touch is the best iPod yet. But... there are some features that I wish it had. Obviously the Web clients such as Mail, Google Maps, etc. But the thing about the screen issue, I sure do see it. Now, I have always been a fan of Apple, but now I am sort of getting frustrated about the quality of their products. I'm not being sarcastic or anything, but hopefully Apple will reimburse us some type of credit for these screen issues. I am not returning mine to get a new iPod. I went an hour out of my life to buy one, and they want me to do it again to EXCHANGE it. I'm not all that pleased Mr. Jobs, I want some type of reimbursement. Thank you.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? You're too lazy to exchange a defective product (rev 1 mind you), but you still want compensation for the problem?? WTF?
What is wrong with you people? First all the moaning about the price drop of the iphone and now you want compensation for a broken product that YOU DONT WANT TO RETURN????

See and you wonder why companies don't do unnecessary things like the $100 iphone rebate or whatever. You give an inch, they take a mile.

 

[winterspan]

punctuation much? jesus *****

I purchased my 8 gig ipod touch here in the Phoenix AZ apple store (last one well anyway i do not have this problem with the black screen my Mom and my brother both got the iphone the second it was released and my screen looks just as good as theres playing the same videos side by side i have been trying to snap a picture but i keep grabing to much glare i will try to get some when i get home tonight.

I think that the 8 gig ipod touchs might not have been efected by this screen issue so anybody else out there want to shed some light on there 8 gig models?

Oh and to the people who are worried about it not having more PDA functionality don't worry about that we will be having all of that shortly just give it some time look how far people have came with as little time as iphone now it can be unlocked fully and run 3rd party aps. and look at the guys who did ipod linux (and others) "where there is a will there is a way" we WILL be having those iphone aps soon and that is ONLY the begining.

forgot to quote it but a guy on a earlier post posted that all these people claiming to cancel there orders for there ipod touch i call bs on some if not all i do not doubt it stopped you from buying one after the fact but people who usually pre-order something do not back out so easily. just my opinion though

Do you need a map to the period, comma, semi-colon ?? Jesus, Lay off the Mountain Dew...

 

[KopThat]

The problems with black areas on the video, are they on videos that have been encoded for iPod video at 320 x 240, or ones that have been encoded for the touch at 480 x 320 ?

Could it be an upscaling problem if they are 320 x 240 ?

 

[winterspan]

LOL.. dinoflagellates - haven't heard that word since college

It may also be that the screens are alive, and the shimmering effect is an artifact of the bioluminescence of dinoflagellates or some such genetically-altered organism coaxed to fluoresce...

Haha.. best explanation I've heard all week!

 

[winterspan]

Canadian prices

The Canadian exchange rate is the one issue seemingly flying under the radar and big corporations (especially auto manufacturers) are absolutely FLEECING consumers .....shame on you Apple ... shame on us for not holding retailers and manufacturers accountable for this .... we only have ourselves to blame .... Canadians have always been known to be too nice (non revolutionary types vis à vis our US friends) .... vote with your wallet refuse to buy a company's products until they charge a fair and reasonable exchange rate.

Speaking of scandalous .... have any of you checked the data plans at Rogers and what they cost ???? No wonder there have been scores of petitions and web sites set up expressly to lobby Governments to have this changed ... that's why I'm disappointed with all the problems and dropped features of the Touch as this would have been the ideal unit in Canada ...I can't see myself owning an iPhone in Canada with our astronomically, exhorbitantly expensive data plans.

I would be interested to see how Apple dealt with you guys when the xrate was at 0.7:1

Did they charge 30-40% more for products? If they didn't, then obviously they just kinda average everything out over the years (hard to imagine).

Im going to go use internet archive waybackmachine to look at store prices...
apple.ca anyone?

btw, I LOVE Vancouver area - .. burnaby... I interviewed for school @ Simon Frasier. If a democrat doesn't get elected in 2008, Im moving north full-time.
(know anyone that wants to get married and get me a 'greenie' ? lol)

 

[winterspan]

People wanting the iphone apps

Well, these are opinions, so neither side will give in! I used the word 'crippled' as I am convinced the absence of these programs is purely a marketing decision. This is an omission of existing SOFTWARE... of course software has a cost, but it is not the same as having different hardware.

I think the iPod touch is an awesome iPod for someone in the market - but for someone like me who already has bought 4 since they came out, I would prefer something that could also save me a few trips to the computer - often I am only looking at a couple websites and checking my email. I sure don't want the hassle of typing in my credentials each time using webmail for this simple task. Having Google maps would be excellent for when you need to check an address quick before leaving - I've woken up the computer many times for this solo task too.

Hardly essential requirements, but they would be features that make the iPod touch just that much more compelling and cool - knowing that Apple has made the best product they can. Instead, I feel that they will add these features later and screw the early adopters. I had no problem with the lack of bluetooth and camera hardware.

The iPod touch has a touch keyboard - is there any other device out there with a keyboard that does not have even a simple notes application? This is purposeful omission by Apple, and I will not support it!

Imagine that Address Book and Mail were integrated on the Mac Pro, but not if you owned an iMac. If you complained, would you want someone to say "Oh well, then buy a Mac Pro?". There is nothing to suggest the iPod touch is not completely capable of running those missing iPhone apps!

I've been struggling with this one too.
16GB vs camera/bluetooth/mail/notes/etc. Im waiting to see Apples response to all the iphone unlocking going on. But even without, apparently you can activate with AT&T and just cancel and you have a contract-free phone.
Im sure they'll even find a way to disable the phone radio so as to save battery life and you'll be able to activate it later if you want to use it as a phone again.. Ill wait and see....

 

[swagi]

yea "those were the days".. you mean the days when Apple was going to go belly up and they had an ancient operating system (kind of like Palm Inc right now). Yes, some of the products were solid, but the company was barely floating. You have to remember that after SJ came back in and things got really popular (especially in the last few years) the scale went WAY UP.

In the whole conversation about the QA problems, no one really said anything about the HUGE VOLUME INCREASES Apple faces each year. Putting out millions of computers, displays, accessories, and now ipods and iphones is obviously incredibly difficult. So they have been having to grow their output exponentially while at the same time continuing to innovate and put out beautifully designed products while also trying to cut costs to shed the reputation for being overprice. I mean my god, I think they are doing alright. They will get these QA and scaling problems fixed over time.

Honestly, those were the days, when I bought an iBook for about 2,400 bucks (it was 4,200 German Marks by that time), while the TiBook was just too expensive for me with a price point between 4,000 and 5,000 bucks. The iBook was worth every penny, and still runs quiet like a charm (sadly battery is out, but after 5 or so years).

My Powerbook G4 15-inch was bought for around 3,400 Euros. It was still worth every penny, with minor glitches like the uncomfortable heat. I still think it runs like a charm and is worth every penny.

I bought four iMac 17" last year for work. Just exactly one month after the warranty expired, all machines start behaving ******. One has an annoyingly loud SuperDrive, the next a major vertical line glitch across the display and so on. The machines were bought for around 1,300 Euro each.

My point: Apple machines are worth every penny. I still refrain from updating my Powerbook at home, as I feel that the top-of-the-line 15" MBP is just too cheap comparing the price of my Powerbook. I personally feel, that Apple machines not only feel cheaper these days, they behave cheaper these days. And I don't want my good Apple experience of the last years (save the iMacs) to be spoiled by Apple's new policy to use cheapo-innards in their machines!

Back to topic: Now all the iPhone early adopters can feel very happy. They have a $100 store credit and a better screen to brag about.

 

[Fotograffiti]

I just cancelled my order for a Touch. I was already less than impressed about the crippling of features (Mail, Notes, Calender, Widgets). I was fine with the lack of Bluetooth and Camera.

If looks like Apple really only included Safari so that you could log onto website-authenticated networks - I bet they would have stripped that out too if they could have. For those of us who already have iPods, not including PDA capabilities really reduces the desirability to upgrade.

These screen quality issues were the tipping point - why take a chance.

PS: The Canadian Exchange rates are also awful - 12.5% higher on 16 GB model.. should be no more than 5% (current exchange rates are ~3%).

I canceled my ipod touch preorder as well earlier today. I almost always get the new Apple products as soon as they come out (except for the iPhone), but for $400 and only 16GB of storage, you shouldn't have to hope you are one of the few lucky ones that doesn't have screen issues. For once, I will wait and see how the first ones are and maybe even wait for the next revision. My 8GB nano still works perfectly fine for now. I would be interested to see how many others who preordered went on to cancel their orders because of potential scereen problems.

 

[winterspan]

hardware issue

The problems with black areas on the video, are they on videos that have been encoded for iPod video at 320 x 240, or ones that have been encoded for the touch at 480 x 320 ?

Could it be an upscaling problem if they are 320 x 240 ?

I highly doubt upscaling or any other 'data' or software problem is to blame. This is almost certainly a defect in one of the LCD layers or a misapplied anti-glare coating.

1) First of all, the 'whitewashed' deep black effect has been seen before on other LCD screens of other devices. Now I'm not sure if the problem is well known in the industry or not (im sure it is.. but im researching this), but it definitely has been seen before.
2) Secondly, some are reporting that the problem goes away when the unit is viewed in bright light (i.e., light reflecting off the screen), and is worst when viewed in darkness. This again supports the theory of a problem involving anti-glare coating.
3) With some reporting that some ipods are being affected, it makes sense that it probably is a problem affecting a large batch of the screens.

If you think about it, if the anti-reflect coating is misapplied it makes sense that maybe is would "reflect" back light from the screen itself.
What i mean is is that when you are viewing a dark movie, the darkest black parts of the screen are actually "black" because they are not emitting ANY light. Therefore, if light from the surrounding pixels was internally reflecting back onto the screen, it would only be noticeable where there is no existing light, aka the darkest parts of the image. As for why the problem corrects itself (at least partially) when viewed in a brightly lit room with light reflecting off the screen, I haven't figured that out. Then again, I'm not an optical engineer. lol.

 

[MacinDoc]

I would be interested to see how Apple dealt with you guys when the xrate was at 0.7:1

Did they charge 30-40% more for products? If they didn't, then obviously they just kinda average everything out over the years (hard to imagine).

No, they charged 40-50% more. International Apple stores, until recently, have always had prices equivalent to an unfavourable exchange rate. Typically, Canadian prices have been inflated 10-20%.

One notable exception is the current Canadian price of the base 24" iMac, which I believe in real terms is almost the same as the American price.

 

[winterspan]

powerbooks days

Honestly, those were the days, when I bought an iBook for about 2,400 bucks (it was 4,200 German Marks by that time), while the TiBook was just too expensive for me with a price point between 4,000 and 5,000 bucks. The iBook was worth every penny, and still runs quiet like a charm (sadly battery is out, but after 5 or so years).

My Powerbook G4 15-inch was bought for around 3,400 Euros. It was still worth every penny, with minor glitches like the uncomfortable heat. I still think it runs like a charm and is worth every penny.

I bought four iMac 17" last year for work. Just exactly one month after the warranty expired, all machines start behaving ******. One has an annoyingly loud SuperDrive, the next a major vertical line glitch across the display and so on. The machines were bought for around 1,300 Euro each.

My point: Apple machines are worth every penny. I still refrain from updating my Powerbook at home, as I feel that the top-of-the-line 15" MBP is just too cheap comparing the price of my Powerbook. I personally feel, that Apple machines not only feel cheaper these days, they behave cheaper these days. And I don't want my good Apple experience of the last years (save the iMacs) to be spoiled by Apple's new policy to use cheapo-innards in their machines!

Back to topic: Now all the iPhone early adopters can feel very happy. They have a $100 store credit and a better screen to brag about.

Yea, I remember my 12" powerbook (aluminum?) , should have kept the damn thing apparently people are still buying them up like crazy off of ebay.
I agree, those were knockout products. It is sad to see the consequences of apple going more mainstream with their products and having to compete with $500 POS windows machines... I hope with all these problems coming out that they "get back to the basics" and go for high-quality/high margin/lower volume products and not try to win the growth game so much.

Btw, where are you in Germany? I've been meaning to get over there for a couple of years now. I have a good friend in Stuttgart, and would love to see the rest of the country. I just started teaching myself german (rosetta stone software - good stuff). I also almost went for the worldcup, but alas I've been stuck here in the USA working too hard.

 

[winterspan]

ouch

No, they charged 40-50% more. International Apple stores, until recently, have always had prices equivalent to an unfavourable exchange rate. Typically, Canadian prices have been inflated 10-20%.

One notable exception is the current Canadian price of the base 24" iMac, which I believe in real terms is almost the same as the American price.

ouch that sucks. There are a few good things about living the USA after all. (hard to find lately... )

 

[Cirrius]

So do I have to eat the 10% return fee at the Apple store if I take this back? I was trying to watch BSG episodes last night and the shimmer was driving me absolutely nuts

 

[badapple18]

you need a map

Do you need a map to the period, comma, semi-colon ?? Jesus, Lay off the Mountain Dew...

i think your the one who needs a map buddy some of your comments are down right impulsive and ignorant (period) lay off the commenting on everybody elses coments and have your own opinion.

and check your facts because plenty of people have also reported having no problems i for one can contest to that