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Benz63amg

macrumors 601
Original poster
Oct 17, 2010
4,207
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Should we be expecting an announcement this week perhaps just like the new 27 inch iMac was announced last week? Macrumors even posted an article last week saying an apple tv hardware refresh should be imminent but what could possibly be new in the new apple tv except for a faster processor perhaps and should we expect an update this week?
 

Deliro

macrumors 65816
Sep 20, 2011
1,142
1,336
This has been discussed several times in the past year. We don’t know. If you want an AppleTV then buy it. Likely anything new would be incremental and probably not impact your daily use cases. I’ve read “reliable” sources claim it was eminent 4 months ago.
 

Benz63amg

macrumors 601
Original poster
Oct 17, 2010
4,207
849
This has been discussed several times in the past year. We don’t know. If you want an AppleTV then buy it. Likely anything new would be incremental and probably not impact your daily use cases. I’ve read “reliable” sources claim it was eminent 4 months ago.
I don't need one now but i currently only have apple tv in my home in the living room and wouldn't mind adding one to my bedroom as well but i'd prefer to wait for the new gen to come out if its imminent
 

Digital Jive

macrumors newbie
Sep 11, 2009
25
32
According to Jon Prosser it was ready to ship in May but Apple is sitting on it. Apart from the faster processor, the other rumoured improvement is that they have redesigned the remote control. I'm currently on the pre 4K model and was looking to upgrade... but I don't want to get the 4K model only to see it superseded right away. Hopefully soon?
 

whsbuss

macrumors 601
May 4, 2010
4,201
1,053
SE Penna.
According to Jon Prosser it was ready to ship in May but Apple is sitting on it. Apart from the faster processor, the other rumoured improvement is that they have redesigned the remote control. I'm currently on the pre 4K model and was looking to upgrade... but I don't want to get the 4K model only to see it superseded right away. Hopefully soon?
Me too. I have the current 4k model in my main viewing room but if there's a new one coming, I would move it to the bedroom and put the new one in the main room.
 

Juicy Box

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2014
7,536
8,870
The ATV rumors have been all over the place.

There were rumors that the only big change to the new ATV would be an A12 to replace the A10X. The benchmarks for the A12 are just a tiny bit higher than the A10X, and according to some developers, the real world GPU performance of the A10X is actually better than the A12.

So a switch to the A12 wouldn't even really be an upgrade from a consumer's point of view, and the benefits of using the A12 would most likely go to Apple due to economies of scale.

There are not any new Apple devices that use the A10X except the Apple TV 4k, but there are a lot of new devices that has the A12.

If Apple replace the A10X with an A12, they could benefit from economies of scale dropping the unit cost, and unless Apple passes that savings to consumer (doubt it), they would be the ones that reap the benefits of the switch.

But...

There have also been rumors that Apple will release a new ATV with an A12X, which would be a significant upgrade to the current A10X. Another part of that rumor was the increase of internal storage to 128GB.

All that sounds good, and if true, it would be a significant upgrade to the current ATV4K.

There has also been rumors of the new ATV having an A14, which I have no idea what the performance would be, but it would probably be better than the A12, but probably not better than the A12X, at least not for GPU performance.

Another but.......

The truth of the matter is that regardless of the newest upgrade of the ATV, the current ATV4K has never fully utilized it performance potential, and is basically an overpowered, and overpriced streaming box.

The ATV could be a lot more, but for various reasons (mostly due to Apple's decisions and policies), it isn't.

The ATV4k's HW can run circles around the competitions' HW, but in the end it doesn't really matter because it is only used as a streaming box.


To the OP: No one knows when/if Apple will release another ATV.

If you get the current model and two weeks later Apple releases another one, chances are, there would be little real world difference between the two models. Maybe if the new model has a new HDMI standard it could be worth upgrading, but even still, your TV would also have to have the new HDMI standard.

Think about it this way, the Apple TV 4 (HD) came out in 2015. It was rumored to be a lot more than what it ended up being, but it still can do basically everything that the ATV4K can do. AFAIK, there are no apps that is for the ATV4k that the ATV4 cannot run.


the other rumoured improvement is that they have redesigned the remote control.
I didn't see this rumor anywhere, do you have the details?
 
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Tienenaar

macrumors member
Dec 14, 2009
31
13
Belgium
If they update the Apple TV I do hope they integrate a wifi/router. Like a Apple TV and Airport/Timemachine rolled into one would be nice. Wire every room in your house and get a good and stable wifi network, streaming tv/music to each room and a way to connect a computer/laptop in each room.
I know it might be daydreaming for such a device but it would add a lot of convince to most people's houses.
 

Audit13

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2017
6,817
1,811
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
It would not be good as a router since the unit would be too small to have effective internal antennae, hackable to run DD-WRT or other open-source firmware, easily hidden, etc.
 

rneglia

macrumors 6502
Apr 18, 2006
413
131
This has been discussed several times in the past year. We don’t know. If you want an AppleTV then buy it. Likely anything new would be incremental and probably not impact your daily use cases. I’ve read “reliable” sources claim it was eminent 4 months ago.
Here's my 2 cents. I didn't buy the AppleTV 4K in 2017 when it dropped because my AppleTV 4th generation was still "new-ish" and I didn't have a 4K television anyway. (still don't). But now, I'm sitting here with a 2015 device, not exactly wanting to upgrade to a 2017 device. Spoiler alert, it's a terrible experience. It lags, it freezes, it gives up, it's the worst. How does Apple launch AppleTV+ and not launch a new device the same year (or following year)?

Anyhow, as I said on my twitter, if Apple don't refresh the AppleTV box in this calendar year, I am going to ditch my Mac, iPhone, iPad, AppleTV, Apple Watch, HomePod, CarPlay, iCloud, etc. etc. and go full evil Windows/Android/Google/Alexa/Chromecast/FireStick whatever.
 
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rneglia

macrumors 6502
Apr 18, 2006
413
131
I welcome other opinions and it could change my mind, care to share why you disagree?
So, I don't own the ATV4K, but my brother has one and I use it at his house. It's better than my 4th generation ATV, but not by much. But I firmly believe that this mythical A12X device would be much faster and more responsive than the ATV4K.
 

Juicy Box

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2014
7,536
8,870
So, I don't own the ATV4K, but my brother has one and I use it at his house. It's better than my 4th generation ATV, but not by much.
Well, since the OP didn't show interest in getting an ATV4 nor did anyone else recommend it, I didn't share my very public thoughts on the ATV4. On many threads about the ATV4, I have stated many times that I think it was launched with the very underpowered A8.

What I mean underpowered is that the rumors leading up to the launch of the ATV4 was that it would have been capable of Xbox 360 graphics, which would mean at a minimum it would need an A8X or A9X.

The "X" variant of Apple's A chips have extra GPU cores making them much faster for graphic related tasks. Perfect for a device that connects to a TV.

The issue was that the rumors were false (or Apple changed their mind during the development stage, most likely to reduce costs) and the ATV4 was launched with the underpowered A8.

The A8 is fine for streaming apps and is probably still faster than most of today's competitions' devices, but if you want the ATV to be more than just a streaming box, than it was underpowered at launch.


With the launch of the ATV4K, Apple used the A10X, which is a huge performance increase over the A8. The ATV4K runs circles around the ATV4, or at least it could given the opportunity.

Maybe someone else could chime in, but I don't think there is any app available on the ATV4K that even comes close to utilizing the full potential of the A10X.


But I firmly believe that this mythical A12X device would be much faster and more responsive than the ATV4K.
It depends on what actually gets released and what the user does with it.

Most of the rumors so far stated that the new Apple TV would have the A12, which is not really an upgrade over the A10X. The benchmarks give the A12 a slight edge over the A10X, but developers have posted that in real world graphic applications, the A10X had slightly better performance.

Not really Apple TV related, but when the 2019 iPad Air (with the A12) came out, there were articles making an argument on getting the older 2017 iPad Pro over the Air due to having a basically equal performing A10X.

I already stated that is Apple goes with the A12, it is most likely have to due with cost savings over performance gains.

this mythical A12X device
If the new ATV has the A12X, then there would be huge performance gains over the A10X. Depending on what you do with your ATV4K, this could be worth the price to upgrade to the new model.

But, if all one does with their ATV4k is streaming Netflix, and the only difference between the new model is the A12X, there probably would not be a noticeable difference in performance when upgrading.

You said yourself that the ATV4K is better than your ATV4, but that is due to going from a slow A8 to a fast A10X. Going from the A10X to the A12 is pretty much no difference, and going from the A10X to the A12X would be like going from a fast chip to a faster chip.
 

Juicy Box

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2014
7,536
8,870
I forgot to say that in past ATV threads, I recommended against getting the ATV4 over the ATV4k due to the performance issues of the A8.

I would only recommend getting the ATV4 if there was a hell of a deal, as the ATV4K was only priced a little higher than the ATV4 if paying full retail, but the ATV4K had a significant performance increase.

For instances that one was looking to save money and all they wanted the ATV for was for streaming apps, I have also recommended getting cheaper streaming boxes like Firestick, Roku, or use built-in apps on smart TVs.

While I think both the ATV4 and ATV4K are far better than the cheaper streamers, once in the common apps, there is little difference between the apps.

If cost is an issue, I like to suggest an ATV4k for the main TV of a home, and cheaper streamers for secondary TVs like the bedrooms.




Another thing I forgot to add is that performance has suffered with tvOS 13. Bugs have increased in my experience as well.

Some of my tvOS apps stopped working correctly, or stop working all together, since the launch of tvOS 13.

It seems like all the 2019 Apple OS versions have suffered from bugs and performance issues. (my iPhones Mail app still doesn't update like it should)

I am hoping that tvOS 14 ends up fixing some of the bugs left behind by tvOS 13.
 

Deliro

macrumors 65816
Sep 20, 2011
1,142
1,336
So, I don't own the ATV4K, but my brother has one and I use it at his house. It's better than my 4th generation ATV, but not by much. But I firmly believe that this mythical A12X device would be much faster and more responsive than the ATV4K.

I have both the 4K and 4th gen, in terms of menu navigation they are identical. In terms of apps launching, really close, nearly identical. I don’t game on an ATV, i have better games to play on more capable devices, so I can’t comment on that.

The streaming apps don’t push the processors of these devices. I have a Apple TV3 as well, its used in the kids room.. Aside from the old school interface, it does everything as it show. Streams fine. Better than my Roku TV, which can lag.
 
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Juicy Box

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2014
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I have both the 4K and 4th gen, in terms of menu navigation they are identical. In terms of apps launching, really close, nearly identical. I don’t game on an ATV, i have better games to play on more capable devices, so I can’t comment on that.
I also have both, and for me, the ATV4K performs significantly faster than the ATV4. The ATV4 tends to have more glitches and requires more restarts.

But if used for just streaming, once in the apps, there is usually very little performance difference between the two.

The streaming apps don’t push the processors of these devices. I have a Apple TV3 as well, its used in the kids room.. Aside from the old school interface, it does everything as it show. Streams fine. Better than my Roku TV, which can lag.
I really like the UI of the apps on the ATV3.

If I was only using streaming apps, and if I could somehow get Siri and additional apps on my ATV3, I would probably have a more enjoyable experience than using the tvOS version of the shared apps. Actually, if I could somehow just get Plex, I would probably still use my ATV3s, I still have three of them.

Better than my Roku TV, which can lag.
I use a mix of Roku and Fire TVs for secondary TVs, and they are so slow compare to even the ATV3. It is a very noticeable difference when using the different devices.

Once in the streaming app, then there is little difference until I go to switch to a different app.
 

Torgo81

macrumors newbie
Oct 20, 2012
24
4
Amsterdam
Maybe someone else could chime in, but I don't think there is any app available on the ATV4K that even comes close to utilizing the full potential of the A10X.

Zwift!!! I am actually waiting for a new Apple TV as I am hoping that it will run Zwift at 4K with a high level of detail. The Apple TV 4K runs it at 1080p and only the menus are rendered at 4K. Actually, I care more about level of detail and frame rates then 4K. I currently use a Non-4K Apple TV for Zwift which isn’t great, but I don’t want to upgrade to a three year old chip.
 
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Juicy Box

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2014
7,536
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I never heard about Zwift until now. It seems like a pretty cool app.

I don't do cycling nor running, but I do rowing. I wonder if there is anything like that for rowing? I did a quick search, and seems like majority of apps are for the Concept2 rower, but I don't have that.

The Apple TV 4K runs it at 1080p and only the menus are rendered at 4K.
But, is this due to a limitation with the A10X?

Actually, I care more about level of detail and frame rates then 4K.
I would too.
 

vipergts2207

Suspended
Apr 7, 2009
4,414
9,885
Columbus, OH
Something I’d like to see is the incorporation of some HomePod features. Just a cheap speaker inside with hey Siri functionality for when the ATV is “off”. And when the ATV is actually on and outputting to a TV, audio would be routed through that. I don’t have HomePods because the rooms where I’d have one already have ATV’s connected to nice speakers.
 
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kiranmk2

macrumors 68000
Oct 4, 2008
1,560
2,081
I think the Apple TV is ready to go and they are just trying to justify the cost of production and release. I'm guessing the plan was to go with an A12X chip and HDMI 2.1 to push the gaming features (remember, the A12X has the GPU performance of an XBox One S) but with Apple Arcade not performing to expectations, I think Apple have had to pause to understand whether a new Apple TV would sell well and/or grow Arcade subscribers.

Hopefully, when it does launch I hope they don't do what they did with the Apple TV 4 where it was 'ready to go' around Easter but delayed to the Autumn and then launched with what must have been the Easter hardware rather than hardware to match the release date.
 

nutmac

macrumors 603
Mar 30, 2004
6,086
7,451
I think the Apple TV is ready to go and they are just trying to justify the cost of production and release. I'm guessing the plan was to go with an A12X chip and HDMI 2.1 to push the gaming features (remember, the A12X has the GPU performance of an XBox One S) but with Apple Arcade not performing to expectations, I think Apple have had to pause to understand whether a new Apple TV would sell well and/or grow Arcade subscribers.
Current Apple TV 4K has the stigma of 3-year old product selling at the same $179-199 price point. Apple spec bumping the current hardware with newer processor and other minor changes isn't going to significantly increase the bill of materials. Any decrease in margin should be easily offset by boost in sales from people waiting for less stale product, as well as not having to produce older A10X processor that no other currently shipping products use.
 

oneMadRssn

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
6,016
14,106
I think the Apple TV is ready to go and they are just trying to justify the cost of production and release. I'm guessing the plan was to go with an A12X chip and HDMI 2.1 to push the gaming features (remember, the A12X has the GPU performance of an XBox One S) but with Apple Arcade not performing to expectations, I think Apple have had to pause to understand whether a new Apple TV would sell well and/or grow Arcade subscribers.

Hopefully, when it does launch I hope they don't do what they did with the Apple TV 4 where it was 'ready to go' around Easter but delayed to the Autumn and then launched with what must have been the Easter hardware rather than hardware to match the release date.

I think it would have some variant of the A13. Cook is all about supply chain efficiency, and the cost of the chips is directly proportional to how many you make. That's why Apple put the A13 into the iPhone SE - with the volume they're selling, doing so made the A13 less expensive for every other product that uses it (iPhone11 and it's cousins). At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if the A13 is the lowest-cost A-series they make, simply due to volume. For that reason, it makes sense to stick it into any refreshed hardware - ATV, HomePod, whatever.
 
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