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Is an Apple TV Refresh imminent?

vertical smile said:
I check out the growing list of tvOS apps that seems like the developers have just abandoned.

Maybe Apple feels the ATV isn't worth it at this point.
Click to expand...

Every platform has a growing list of apps that are abandoned, all popular apps are updated.

It has been reported that there will be a new Apple tv next year, it is delayed, just like the Iphone and many other things,
 
hancox said:
appleinsider.com

AirPlay 2 and HomeKit support coming to Roku in 2020 | AppleInsider

Roku is adding support for AirPlay 2 and HomeKit in its next operating system update, enabling a number of televisions and 4K-capable streaming set-top boxes to stream content from iOS and Mac hardware, as well as interact with Apple's smart home platform.
appleinsider.com appleinsider.com

Maybe Apple will just give up, and buy Roku? Why not?
Click to expand...
Roku Ultra retails at $99.99, which while certainly cheaper than $179 for Apple TV 4K, isn't that compelling for those that value other benefits Apple TV provides (wider selection of apps, Apple Arcade, Home(Kit) hub, integration with Apple ecosystem).

Apple needs to make cheaper Apple TV, yes, but I think buying Roku isn't it.
 
JoeShades said:
It has been reported that there will be a new Apple tv next year, it is delayed, just like the Iphone and many other things,
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure tvOS apps that are being abandoned has little to do with a potential update to the ATV. This has been happening for the last few years, but just continues to get worse.

It makes me sad though, because I would much rather use the ATV to use these apps over the iPhone. Now, I just won't use them.
 
vertical smile said:
These apps I am referring to are updated and supported, just not on the tvOS.

They continue to work fine on iOS.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter that they're still updated and supported on iOS. TVs are not smartphones, and many apps just inherently aren't useful on TV, and vice-versa. At first many tried to make a tvOS version of their iOS apps without thinking about why the app needed to exist on TV, but now we know better what works and what doesn't.

It's better to compare tvOS to other TV OSes.

The key question is whether those apps are being updated and supported on other TV-centric OSes? E.g., are they updated and supported on Roku? On Fire OS? On Android TV? On Tizen? On WebOS?

From what I see, if it belongs on TV, it is usually on tvOS at the same time, or even before, it is on other TV platforms. For example, Peloton was on tvOS long before it was on Roku, and indeed the app is way better on tvOS. HBOMax is another big example.
 
oneMadRssn said:
It doesn't matter that they're still updated and supported on iOS. TVs are not smartphones, and many apps just inherently aren't useful on TV, and vice-versa.
Click to expand...
I doubt buy this at all. Most of the apps I am referring to are games, which traditional, can do very well on the TV.

Maybe your explanation would make more sense if we were talking about the start of tvOS and the missteps Apple made with app restrictions, such as size limit, requiring the use of the Siri Remote over controllers, etc., but that is not an issue anymore.

I think it is totally related to the popularity of the ATV. I think @JoeShades got it right with this quote:
JoeShades said:
Every platform has a growing list of apps that are abandoned, all popular apps are updated.
Click to expand...
Although it has less to do with individual apps, and more to so with the overall platform.

I hope it isn't true, and the ATV and tvOS brings something new and special, giving it new life, but it appears it might be just slowly dying.
 
vertical smile said:
I doubt buy this at all. Most of the apps I am referring to are games, which traditional, can do very well on the TV.

Maybe your explanation would make more sense if we were talking about the start of tvOS and the missteps Apple made with app restrictions, such as size limit, requiring the use of the Siri Remote over controllers, etc., but that is not an issue anymore.

I think it is totally related to the popularity of the ATV. I think @JoeShades got it right with this quote:

Although it has less to do with individual apps, and more to so with the overall platform.

I hope it isn't true, and the ATV and tvOS brings something new and special, giving it new life, but it appears it might be just slowly dying.
Click to expand...

Looking on the bright side - the lack of hardware and spec updates lowers the need for update frequency.
 
vertical smile said:
I doubt buy this at all. Most of the apps I am referring to are games, which traditional, can do very well on the TV.

Maybe your explanation would make more sense if we were talking about the start of tvOS and the missteps Apple made with app restrictions, such as size limit, requiring the use of the Siri Remote over controllers, etc., but that is not an issue anymore.

I think it is totally related to the popularity of the ATV. I think @JoeShades got it right with this quote:

Although it has less to do with individual apps, and more to so with the overall platform.

I hope it isn't true, and the ATV and tvOS brings something new and special, giving it new life, but it appears it might be just slowly dying.
Click to expand...

Yea, it may be dying as a gaming platform. But frankly, DGAF about that. I don't game much, but when I do, it's just way better on Switch / Xbox.

As a TV platform though, I think it's thriving. And this is a bigger market than gaming anyway. 40 million people cut the cord in 2019, 33 million in 2018, 25 million in 2017, 17 million in 2016. That's over 115 million in just 4 years. Likely to exceed 60 million in 2020 to add to that total. That's more new streamers in the last 4 years than the combined sales of Xbox Ones + Nintendo Switch.

So streaming is SUPER important to ATV. Every streaming app is on ATV. Every fitness app worth its salt is on ATV. A bunch of apps to do OTA DVR or local streaming from a NAS. If you want to watch TV, the ATV is up to date and probably the best device available today.
 
hancox said:
Looking on the bright side - the lack of hardware and spec updates lowers the need for update frequency.
Click to expand...
Like HomePod, Apple does not need to update Apple TV often. All Apple needs to do is more or less parallel game console industry's major update cycle of a 5-6 years, with a modest spec bump and/or price reduction between the update cycles.

But it is imperative for Apple to invest in software, contents, and the ecosystem -- by refine and improve and woo and attract third party.
 
oneMadRssn said:
Yea, it may be dying as a gaming platform.
Click to expand...
Yeah, not just gaming, but pretty anything that isn't streaming. Apple can't even get the photos app on tvOS to work well. The ATV2 and ATV3 version of photos was much better, just without the "memories" feature.

Apple used to be so good at stuff like that.

Now, it is a kick ass streaming box, and while it is much better than the competition, once you start the stream, they have little difference between them.

oneMadRssn said:
40 million people cut the cord in 2019, 33 million in 2018, 25 million in 2017, 17 million in 2016. That's over 115 million in just 4 years.
Click to expand...
I bet I know what streaming device most of those cord cutters are not using...

hancox said:
Looking on the bright side - the lack of hardware and spec updates lowers the need for update frequency.
Click to expand...
I guess if you are looking hard for a silver lining somewhere, that would do.

But like @nutmac posted, the ATV4K really doesn't need to be a HW update. With it pretty much just being a streaming box now, it is way overpowered as is.

Besides, it seems like tvOS updates, not HW updates, and breaking apps, and the developers don't care enough to fix up. Well, at least the tvOS versions of them.
 
nutmac said:
Roku Ultra retails at $99.99, which while certainly cheaper than $179 for Apple TV 4K, isn't that compelling for those that value other benefits Apple TV provides
Click to expand...
I wonder how the UI on an actual Roku box compares to the UI of Roku Smart TVs.

I have a Roku Smart TV, and the UI is horrible. Reminds me of something you would see on a MS Windows app from 20 years ago.

I don't see how Roku is selling their streaming boxes for such a high price with such a crappy UI. So, maybe it is different than the Smart TVs?
 
vertical smile said:
I wonder how the UI on an actual Roku box compares to the UI of Roku Smart TVs.

I have a Roku Smart TV, and the UI is horrible. Reminds me of something you would see on a MS Windows app from 20 years ago.

I don't see how Roku is selling their streaming boxes for such a high price with such a crappy UI. So, maybe it is different than the Smart TVs?
Click to expand...
Roku's smart TV OS, like the one that drives TCL TV, is almost exactly the same as Roku streaming box. It's fine if you like simplicity, but as you pointed out, it is not known for beauty nor any modern design aesthetics.
 
hancox said:
appleinsider.com

AirPlay 2 and HomeKit support coming to Roku in 2020 | AppleInsider

Roku is adding support for AirPlay 2 and HomeKit in its next operating system update, enabling a number of televisions and 4K-capable streaming set-top boxes to stream content from iOS and Mac hardware, as well as interact with Apple's smart home platform.
appleinsider.com appleinsider.com

Maybe Apple will just give up, and buy Roku? Why not?
Click to expand...
If anything, I'd see Google buying Roku before Apple. It wouldn't be a bad play if Apple did buy Roku though. Ultimately I do believe they will get purchased by another company down the road. Buy some stock with that "second stimulus" lol.
 
hancox said:
I'm seriously considering pulling the trigger on a remote-less 4k on ebay for ~$100 USD. I have a harmony hub that would control the ATV anyway, so it seems like best of all worlds. I just wish i could get something new-ish that wasn't in limbo.

As for an upgrade, I think this is going to come silently in a press release, at some point - the hardware and functionality movements won't be enough to garner wows, so they won't wait for a keynote.
Click to expand...

You’re right. The AppleTV isn’t a priority.
nutmac said:
Roku Ultra retails at $99.99, which while certainly cheaper than $179 for Apple TV 4K, isn't that compelling for those that value other benefits Apple TV provides (wider selection of apps, Apple Arcade, Home(Kit) hub, integration with Apple ecosystem).

Apple needs to make cheaper Apple TV, yes, but I think buying Roku isn't it.
Click to expand...

In what way, besides mobile games, does AppleTV have more apps than roku ? Roku has many more channels.
 
nutmac said:
Roku's smart TV OS, like the one that drives TCL TV, is almost exactly the same as Roku streaming box. It's fine if you like simplicity, but as you pointed out, it is not known for beauty nor any modern design aesthetics.
Click to expand...

I think this is Roku's biggest problem. While they do have powerful hardware, most people using Roku have really low-end slow hardware (built into TCL TVs or an older cheapo stick). Since this is such a huge % of Roku's install base, Roku and the app developers on the platform have to cater to these lowest-common denominator devices. This is why apps on Roku constantly lag behind other platforms.

Roku really should have demanded better minimum hardware from TCL.
 
With Amazon Prime Day soon upon us, it's possible they'll have a Fire Stick 4K discounted down to $40 CDN. This comes with AppleTV+ app installed.

As much as I'd like an AppleTV, it's difficult to compete against devices priced at more than half. I know it's not Apple's way, but a lower cost AppleTV 'stick' would be great option, for those who don't need the power of an A10X or A12 chip.
 
satchmo said:
With Amazon Prime Day soon upon us, it's possible they'll have a Fire Stick 4K discounted down to $40 CDN. This comes with AppleTV+ app installed.

As much as I'd like an AppleTV, it's difficult to compete against devices priced at more than half. I know it's not Apple's way, but a lower cost AppleTV 'stick' would be great option, for those who don't need the power of an A10X or A12 chip.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I did. I got tired of waiting and got a 4K Fire Stick for ~$25 USD on sale. I didn't even realize at the time I could watch ATV+ content on it so that was a pleasant surprise!
 
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Same here, I got tired of waiting for a new Apple TV for my extra TV, so I got a Firestick 4K. So far it's pretty awesome for the price. It doesn't have the fancy animations of iOS but all the apps and content are just as functional.
 
vertical smile said:
Well, it is $180 for the ATV4K for retail, and if you want an ATV4K on all your TVs, it would be $180 per TV if you want to use all ATVs.

In the US it is very common to have multiple TVs in a home. If the choice is between buying an ATV4K or Firestick 4K, a multi-TV home could be fully equipped with streaming devices for the price of one ATV4K.

4K Smart TVs are getting so cheap, you can find them for the price of and ATV4K.

Don't get me wrong, I think the ATV4K is the best streamer out there, but I completely understand why people don't spend $180 for one when the alternatives are a fraction of the price.

The ATV4K could be much better and a must-have device, but Apple keeps treating it like a hobby, so unless that changes, I think people will stick with a much cheaper device that basically does everything that the ATV4K currently does.
[automerge]1600707741[/automerge]

I have a few, and also can't stand them. But, they are great for secondary TVs that I rarely use.
Click to expand...
$180 is fine and I’d buy one in a heartbeat... IF it were new technology. Buying a brand new 2020 Roku Ultra for $100 seems like a way better deal than a 2017 Apple TV for $180. Hell, even if the current Apple TV was $100, I’d still probably go with the 2020 Roku because I don’t want to buy outdated hardware. I’d totally fork over $200 for a new Apple TV with modern hardware if only Apple had one for sale.
 
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MisterSavage said:
That's exactly what I did. I got tired of waiting and got a 4K Fire Stick for ~$25 USD on sale. I didn't even realize at the time I could watch ATV+ content on it so that was a pleasant surprise!
Click to expand...
TIL. Maybe I’ll give Apple TV+ a look today then. We’re currently using 4K Fire Sticks (which are okay, but need to be unplugged to reboot them far more often than I would like. I’ve got one of them tucked neatly behind my TV, and accidentally cracked my tv screen while trying to reach the outlet to reboot the fire stick. $25 for the fire stick, but broke an $800 tv in the process. ****) but are looking into something to watch Fitness+ on.
 
Howyalikdemapls said:
$180 is fine and I’d buy one in a heartbeat... IF it were new technology. Buying a brand new 2020 Roku Ultra for $100 seems like a way better deal than a 2017 Apple TV for $180. Hell, even if the current Apple TV was $100, I’d still probably go with the 2020 Roku because I don’t want to buy outdated hardware. I’d totally fork over $200 for a new Apple TV with modern hardware if only Apple had one for sale.
Click to expand...
I don't understand this. Don't confuse newer with better technology.


I can totally understand going for the cheaper option that can basically do everything that the more expensive model currently does, but what I don't get is going for newer, but much slower HW.

That is like saying one should choose a 2020 Hyundai Accent over a 2017 Tesla Model S because the 2020 Accent has newer technology. If you said go for the 2020 Accent because all you do is use it to get groceries, this would be understandable, but not because of technology.


Just look up some benchmarks comparing the two. I cannot find any from the 2020 Roku (not out yet), but there are some from the previous generation and it isn't even kind of close.

I also get that there are more to technology than just the speeds, but still, you have have all the new technology in the world, but if it is slow as crap, your experience would be crap.
 
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