Is Apple insulting our intelligence?

[JPark]

I suggest you re-read it as the article says that there is a drop in reception when held a certain way but DOESN'T DROP CALLS. They basically said it drops but not enough that it's that big a deal.

So, yes, there is NO issue with the phone. It's been said countless times that the reception is BETTER than the 3GS. So it's an IMPROVEMENT.

If you don't like the phone, RETURN IT!!! And stop bitching!

Now I understand where your confusion comes from. He says that it is able to maintain calls at -113dB that other phones would drop, and that is true. But that does not mean it doesn't drop calls. It just means at a low signal strength it can still keep a call. -113dB seems to be the limit the phone can handle and still maintain a connection. The problem is that you lose an average of 20dB because of the dumb antenna (per the article, "Holding it naturally, I measured an average drop of 20 dB."). So if you're in a region with -95dB (currently displayed as 4 bars), you'll drop to -115dB and your call gets dropped.

Honestly, I don't know why you're trying to convince people it doesn't drop calls. Many of us can demonstrate it on demand, and have demonstrated it on accident as well.

 

[Geckotek]

All we have to do is compare it to another GSM phone, as I did with a Blackberry:

         -110      -100       -90       -80    dB
      |----|----|----|----|----|----|----|-----|
iOS4    1.....2...3.4.........5.................
RIM            1......2......3.....4.........5..

E.g. Where RIM would display just two bars, Apple displays four.

So we're supposed to believe that AT&T never tested the iPhone and found that its signal bars didn't follow their "standard", as Apple claims?

If so, then between the iPhone's antenna problems, and ATT's activation servers, they need to hire much better phone and website load testers.

I truly suspect that the strange scale Apple is using is based on the update they did for the 3G.

 

[Geckotek]

This is ****ing BS.

Im tired of threads like this.

ALL CELLPHONES DO THIS

STOP RIPPING ON APPLE.

Read this please and learn: http://daringfireball.net/2010/07/translation_iphone_4

All cellphones do this...yes. But not to this scale. People are dropping more calls with their iPhone 4 than they did with their 3Gs...that's fact that was mentioned on this forum before the antenna thing was discovered.

 

[JPark]

Exactly! (BTW, do I know you? Lots of JParks...but just wondering)

Nah, must be a different JPark. The only person I know in Dallas hates Macs. Lots of JParks in the world.

 

[SiskoKid]

Now I understand where your confusion comes from. He says that it is able to maintain calls at -113dB that other phones would drop, and that is true. But that does not mean it doesn't drop calls. It just means at a low signal strength it can still keep a call. -113dB seems to be the limit the phone can handle and still maintain a connection. The problem is that you lose an average of 20dB because of the dumb antenna (per the article, "Holding it naturally, I measured an average drop of 20 dB."). So if you're in a region with -95dB (currently displayed as 4 bars), you'll drop to -115dB and your call gets dropped.

Honestly, I don't know why you're trying to convince people it doesn't drop calls. Many of us can demonstrate it on demand, and have demonstrated it on accident as well.

EVERY phone drops calls, dude. I never made a claim that it NEVER drops calls. Just that it can still hold a call even with a drop in signal unlike many other phones that show one or two bars but still drop your call anyway.

Honestly, I don't know why you're trying to convince people that there's a problem because there really isn't one. It happens to drop a little more signal than other phones. If you have crappy reception most phones will probably drop your call anyway even if they display bars.

 

[kdarling]

I truly suspect that the strange scale Apple is using is based on the update they did for the 3G.

Makes sense, with the addition of UMTS-3G.

What we know for sure, is that the only thing the coming update will "correct" is people's expectations, due to fewer bars being displayed.

It also means that everyone who has commented here for the past few years that they had good ATT coverage where they lived (because they had 3-5 bars showing on their iPhone) might have to be prepared for the recalibration.

ATT and iPhone forums are also going to have to ride through weeks of newbies popping in to ask why their number of bars has suddenly dropped.

 

[Geckotek]

Nah, must be a different JPark. The only person I know in Dallas hates Macs. Lots of JParks in the world.

This is true, I go to Church with a lot of them. One of my friends JPark in LA got an iPhone recently...thought perhaps she was on the forum.

Makes sense, with the addition of UMTS-3G.

What we know for sure, is that the only thing the coming update will "correct" is people's expectations, due to fewer bars being displayed.

It also means that everyone who has commented here for the past few years that they had good ATT coverage where they lived (because they had 3-5 bars showing on their iPhone) might have to be prepared for the recalibration.

ATT and iPhone forums are also going to have to ride through weeks of newbies popping in to ask why their reception (number of bars) has suddenly dropped.

Spot on as usual.

You recall the "software fix" the did for the 3G right?

 

[tritonj]

it is real simple, if you are getting dropped calls then the iphone 4 and possibly att are not the providers/phone for you, return it and get something different

i really don't understand the outrage, you are allowed to return it within 30 days, there is no loss here, it is unbelievable how people seem to be losing sleep over a non issue

 

[PantherJeep]

It's really simple from my perspective, and I see no reason to play "armchair quarterback" over whether the patch is BS or not. Following the patch, either I'll be able to make a call from my desk while holding the phone in the palm of my hand or I won't be able to.

Currently I cannot, once I drop to one bar or Searching/No Service.

If after the patch I suddenly can make & receive calls, regardless of how many bars are displayed, then that's good enough for me. If I still can't, then I return the iP4 & go back to my 3G (which works fine from my desk - or will once I back it down to v3.1.3 ) and wait for the next iteration to try again. Simple.

 

[ReallyBigFeet]

Its going to be SO nice when all the armchair-engineers and general whiners leave the forums......

 

[dmelgar]

Your vote is basically with your money! And not voting is supporting this type of corporate behavior and not keeping Apple honest.

Agreed. Excellent level headed post.

 

[SiskoKid]

Its going to be SO nice when all the armchair-engineers and general whiners leave the forums......

Amen!

Anandtech shows that the iPhone 4 drops maybe about 5dB versus a Nexus One yet that phone was not under NEARLY that much scrutiny and all of a sudden that 5dB, this ARBITRARY signal loss, is a huge deal.

Grow up ****ing whiners. Return your phone or leave the forums. Either way, just leave!

 

[dmelgar]

Honestly, I don't know why you're trying to convince people that there's a problem because there really isn't one. It happens to drop a little more signal than other phones. If you have crappy reception most phones will probably drop your call anyway even if they display bars.

Honestly, I can't imagine people who can't comprehend this issue.
Apple has admitted the issue and isn't doing anything to fix reception.
Anandtech did the best review and showed reception dropping 20db when held normally. That is NOT a little more signal loss than other phones. That is dropping 100 TIMES as much signal as other phones. That is HUGE.

 

[SiskoKid]

Honestly, I can't imagine people who can't comprehend this issue.
Apple has admitted the issue and isn't doing anything to fix reception.
Anandtech did the best review and showed reception dropping 20db when held normally. That is NOT a little more signal loss than other phones. That is dropping 100 TIMES as much signal as other phones. That is HUGE.

Apple hasn't admitted a RECEPTION issue. They said that the way the bars are shown is the issue. NOT a reception issue.

Anandtech compared it to a Nexus One, and compared to that phone, the iPhone MAYBE loses 5dB more. It's completely arbitrary yet no one was up in arms over the Nexus One.

This is NOT an issue. If you don't have good reception, go to another carrier or get another phone.

 

[dmelgar]

You recall the "software fix" the did for the 3G right?

You mean the software 'fix' that made most phones show 5 bars?
And now somehow... Apple is 'shocked' to discover a 'bug' where the phone too often shows 5 bars.

Apple has lost all credibility and has resorted to outright lies. They know they beefed up the number of bars in that fix for the iPhone 3G. Somehow lowering the bars will fix this one? I don't think so.

 

[nickspohn]

I truly suspect that the strange scale Apple is using is based on the update they did for the 3G.

Agreed. They are fixing an error caused by fixing an error. Even though fixing this error does nothing. Let's call it revolutionary!

 

[tritonj]

Honestly, I can't imagine people who can't comprehend this issue.
Apple has admitted the issue and isn't doing anything to fix reception.
Anandtech did the best review and showed reception dropping 20db when held normally. That is NOT a little more signal loss than other phones. That is dropping 100 TIMES as much signal as other phones. That is HUGE.

so what..... it is apple's prerogative to make a phone that doesn't work well as a phone, they aren't making you buy it or keep it. return it and stop whining about it

it is also their prerogative to not fix an issue too. there is no overarching public good that compels them to do anything here. it isn't like a tire defect or some sort of care defect that can kill people. we are talking about a phone. if they want to fix it they will if they don't then they won't, in the end they suffer on the bottom line. and if people are stupid enough to keep something that doesn't work for them then that is their problem

 

[Geckotek]

Amen!

Anandtech shows that the iPhone 4 drops maybe about 5dB versus a Nexus One yet that phone was not under NEARLY that much scrutiny and all of a sudden that 5dB, this ARBITRARY signal loss, is a huge deal.

Grow up ****ing whiners. Return your phone or leave the forums. Either way, just leave!

Some of us have contributed far more than you ever will to this forum. So why don't you exit?

For those that keep saying just return it....it's not that simple for a lot of us. The iPhone has become a commodity. I have a lot of investment in the iPhone ecosystem. I have a connection kit for my car, HD radio w/ iPhone dock in my bathroom, lots of Apps, and several other accessories. If I have to return the iPhone 4 and get what....an 8GB 3Gs? Now I have to step down in storage as well? I guess I could get some of the unsold 3Gs of larger size....but I shouldn't have to.

Apple has sucked us all into their ecosystem (admittedly we came willingly). They should fix this and make it right. They have a very loyal customer base that has made them tons of money. To tell people just to return it and get their money back is a flat out insult and is in complete denial of the reality of the situation.

 

[dmelgar]

Apple hasn't admitted a RECEPTION issue. They said that the way the bars are shown is the issue. NOT a reception issue.

Anandtech compared it to a Nexus One, and compared to that phone, the iPhone MAYBE loses 5dB more. It's completely arbitrary yet no one was up in arms over the Nexus One.

This is NOT an issue. If you don't have good reception, go to another carrier or get another phone.

Apple has admitted that if you hold the phone across the break on the left band, that reception is diminished. They say don't hold it that way. They claim all phones diminish reception if you hold them at the bottom. That is true, but not on the same scale as the iPhone.

In the Anandtech review, while being held naturally, the NexusOne lost 10.7 db while iPhone4 lost 19.8. Thats a drop of 9.1db. As a frame of reference, 10db is a 10x change in signal strength. 9.1db = 8x lower signal strength.
There was an uproar over the Nexus One's performance. Google never really addressed it. And you can see what a wild success that phone has been.

I thought people bought the iPhone because its the best, not because you can find one phone somewhere who's performance is ONLY 8x better.
Meanwhile in their test, the iPhone 3GS lost 1.9db, meaning a drop of 17.9db. For reference, 20db is a 100x change in signal strength. At 17.9db difference = 62 times weaker signal strength.

FYI. db is a relative measure. If you want to find out how many times different two value are, and have the db value, the formula is:
10 ** (db/10)
In words, 10 raised to the power of (db divided by 10).
So for a 17.9db change, thats
10 ** 1.79 = 62 (rounded)

 

[Fabienne]

Please note: anyone or entity can insult you, but they cannot insult a part of your being. So, you might be insulted by Apple, but they cannot insult your left big toe, your ears, your sense of humor or your intelligence.

Some unkind person or entity might say,"I hate your hair, it looks like the devil." They might say,"By George, I think you are stupid." In those two cases you are the one insulted, not your hair or your intelligence.

 

[TaylorBoi]

So whats the software fix going to be....Show less bars?

 

[fsck-y dingo]

Use your common sense: no single public company could survive such a blunt lying campaign you‘re accusing Apple of. You don’t get the second largest company just by accident. Apple is not that plain stupid.

People don't get to be as wealthy as these folks by being 100% honest. Look at Hollywood. It's full of pretenders bull******** there way to the top. Politics...Do I need to give examples for that? Greedy CEOs will almost always do what's best for the bottom line over the customer.

Apple is in damage control mode. They'll send out some updates, have the public relations department continue with there circle talk and things will be forgotten by the general public. Nothing will be done about the hardware issue. Well, maybe for iPhone 5. It's very clear that they will up-talk the future update and the large majority will be convinced. By the amount of people asking for free bumpers they know all that needs to be done is to cover up the issue. The bumper remedy is a cover up in itself. All it does is mask the issue. Since they know people are ok with that they'll chose to mask the issue in a less costly way...the software update.

I really hope the update does alleviate some reception problems, but it can't solve the antenna's faulty design.

 

[SiskoKid]

Some of us have contributed far more than you ever will to this forum. So why don't you exit?

For those that keep saying just return it....it's not that simple for a lot of us. The iPhone has become a commodity. I have a lot of investment in my iPhone. I have a connection kit for my car, HD radio w/ iPhone dock in my bathroom, lots of Apps, and several other accessories. If I have to return the iPhone 4 and get what....an 8GB 3Gs? Now I have to step down in storage as well? I guess I could get some of the unsold 3Gs of larger size....but I shouldn't have to.

Apple has roped us into this and gotten us to stay with their App Store etc... They should fix this and make it right. They have a very loyal customer base that has made them tons of money. To tell people just to return it and get their money back is a flat out insult and is in complete denial of the reality of the situation.

NO ONE roped you into buying an iPhone 4 at launch. Had you waited not even a day, you would've seen these alleged "issues" pop up informing your purchasing decision.

Unfortunately, you just don't get good enough reception where you are for your iPhone 4 to work properly when held a certain way. For most others, myself included, the iPhone 4 functions flawlessly under every situation it's been in.

I'm sorry it doesn't work for you, but you're not getting a fix from Apple because it works. The only thing you'll see now is an accurate portrayal of your signal. And, from the way you're sounding, it sounds like your phone will say "No Signal" a lot after the "fix."

 

[diabolic]

I really hope the update does alleviate some reception problems, but it can't solve the real issue.

The real issue that the antenna works the way they designed it to? While that doesn't make people happy, it's probably the story they will stick with.

 

[dmelgar]

For those who think the Anandtech review says the iPhone gets good reception, read more of the review. In the final words he says,

The main downside to the iPhone 4 is the obvious lapse in Apple's engineering judgment. The fact that Apple didn't have the foresight to coat the stainless steel antenna band with even a fraction of an ounce worth of non-conductive material either tells us that Apple doesn't care or that it simply doesn't test thoroughly enough. The latter is a message we've seen a few times before with OS X issues, the iPhone 4 simply reinforces it. At the bare minimum Apple should give away its bumper case with every iPhone 4 sold. The best scenario is for Apple to coat the antenna and replace all existing phones with a revised model.The ideal situation is very costly for Apple but it is the right thing to do. Plus it's not like Apple doesn't have the resources to take care of its customers.​

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/16