Because if Apple priced their hardware in regards to how 'new' the tech was, consumers would simply wait 6-8 months to potentially save $1k+. Not very smart for Apple, or their investors. 😛
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Is Apple ripping us off with the Macbook Pro?
- Thread starter wikoogle
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Because if Apple priced their hardware in regards to how 'new' the tech was, consumers would simply wait 6-8 months to potentially save $1k+. Not very smart for Apple, or their investors. 😛
Don't talk about cars. You clearly know nothing about them. Do you own shares in Microsoft, by the way?
Max(IT)
Suspended
absolutely right !
Every time an Apple's product is near the end of its lifespan, there is someone whining about the price ...
Apple's policy is to keep the price tag until the updated model is presented. If you cannot afford it, go buy a Dell !
Max(IT)
Suspended
Doesn't matter. The civil contract with Apple (the EULA) applies. You must agree to it before running it the first time. If you don't abide by the EULA, you can be sued by Apple for breach of contract. Is Apple going to come after you for making a hackintosh? I don't know....but there's a lady here in Minnesota that now owes the RIAA $150,000 for music copyright violation. She's lost every appeal. Seems unlikely you as an individual would get a cease-and-desist order from Apple, I agree, but just because they don't sue you doesn't mean they don't have a right to.
Seriously, look at Pystar's experience...it involves this exact issue; the legality of prohibiting use of OSX on non-Apple hardware. Apple won an injunction against exactly what you're trying to promote, the judge thereby saying that Apple's EULA is legal. Pystar has filed an Notice of Intent to Appeal (not an actual appeal), claiming the Apple's EULA constitutes a monopoly. Heh heh, good luck with that one...it's a total loser.
Apple was also victorious in a much larger scale EULA enforcement in the Clone Wars of the 90's. So, far, I score it Apple...2, alent1234/wikoogle/Pystar....0.
i don't know why the OP even cares if it is a value or not. I bought my MBP for the simple fact that it fit my needs. So for me, it is a value. I didn't want to pay that much, but the simple fact that NOTHING ELSE runs OS X natively, I had no choice.
Also, i know that it will hold its' value very well in the future when i decide to upgrade. Sure you can buy the Dell or whatever you compared it to ($500), but the simple fact that you would be lucky to even get $100 for it 9 months down the road was probably NOT considered in the purchase.
Also, i know that it will hold its' value very well in the future when i decide to upgrade. Sure you can buy the Dell or whatever you compared it to ($500), but the simple fact that you would be lucky to even get $100 for it 9 months down the road was probably NOT considered in the purchase.
How can someone rip you off when they state what you are getting everywhere? Maybe you should take some time, work in the US, pay your taxes and find out what being 'ripped off' really means.
Even if you feel Apple overcharges, so what? I think nearly all Audis are overpriced, that doesn't stop them from selling. It's all opinionated, and you are not likely to win anyone over here at MR. I'm not going to audiworld forums and bitching them out about how overpriced their cars are, its a waste of time for everyone.
If you find your plastic crap-engineered laptop to be a fantastic value, go for it. I wouldn't buy your machine if it was priced at $200 (which I'm sure next black friday it would be).
I appreciate what MBPs gives it's users. It's not about the specs, which is why Apple had to open retail stores to show everyone how well designed it is. If you take a clueless consumer and have him shop online for a laptop, he would most likely avoid Apple based on specs alone. You place him in front of MBPs and the latest and greatest from HP/Dell/Sony etc. and you will most likely find him very pleasant with Apple's offerings.
Apple laptops scream quality so loud it's disturbing. It starts from just a simple glance at it's well engineered design, continues when you realize you don't have to uninstall 50 applications to use it, and it lasts till you sell it for a surprisingly high percentage of what you paid for it (resale is the best among all other laptops).
Even if you feel Apple overcharges, so what? I think nearly all Audis are overpriced, that doesn't stop them from selling. It's all opinionated, and you are not likely to win anyone over here at MR. I'm not going to audiworld forums and bitching them out about how overpriced their cars are, its a waste of time for everyone.
If you find your plastic crap-engineered laptop to be a fantastic value, go for it. I wouldn't buy your machine if it was priced at $200 (which I'm sure next black friday it would be).
I appreciate what MBPs gives it's users. It's not about the specs, which is why Apple had to open retail stores to show everyone how well designed it is. If you take a clueless consumer and have him shop online for a laptop, he would most likely avoid Apple based on specs alone. You place him in front of MBPs and the latest and greatest from HP/Dell/Sony etc. and you will most likely find him very pleasant with Apple's offerings.
Apple laptops scream quality so loud it's disturbing. It starts from just a simple glance at it's well engineered design, continues when you realize you don't have to uninstall 50 applications to use it, and it lasts till you sell it for a surprisingly high percentage of what you paid for it (resale is the best among all other laptops).
Sure, apple products are expensive. Maybe a bit to expensive but for me it does not matter. I'll happily pay more for a product that works good and is very user friendly. Apple is one of very few companies that really think things through. All the little features such as magsafe adapter, short & long power cable interchangability, motion-detection-HD, time-machine, good multi-touch trackpad etc. It are all features which make their products just a bit more friendly to use everyday and saves me more effort. So expensive? Sure. But it is my decision and many others' as well to pay for better everyday usability, that is not ripping off customers.
In a free market, NOTHING is overpriced. All prices eventually auto-corrects to what people will pay for them and that is determined by how much VALUE the product has.
That Gateway laptop you mentioned has precisely $500 worth of value. If it had more, Gateway would try to sell it for more. The MacBook Pro is worth $2000+ so it priced accordingly.
In computing, I've learned that specs means nothing, user experience is everything. You don't determine a car's value by horsepower.
That Gateway laptop you mentioned has precisely $500 worth of value. If it had more, Gateway would try to sell it for more. The MacBook Pro is worth $2000+ so it priced accordingly.
In computing, I've learned that specs means nothing, user experience is everything. You don't determine a car's value by horsepower.
Max(IT)
Suspended
how do you think Apple is pulling its 40% profit margins?
I dont think the current line of MPB's has more than 500 dollars of component costs.
But anyway back on topic...everyone is right people value MBP's at over 2k and thats why they buy them and the price is where its at.
The real problem though is that Apple knows people only care about the experience and looks and *most* people wouldn't know whats inside anyway. Unfortunately there are a few of us that DO know whats inside and NEED the greatest and latest.
We are the ones getting shafted in the end, but we cant do much about it anymore because we are now a minority as Apple has shifted into a consumer based giant, instead of the niche market it used to go after.
I dont think the current line of MPB's has more than 500 dollars of component costs.
But anyway back on topic...everyone is right people value MBP's at over 2k and thats why they buy them and the price is where its at.
The real problem though is that Apple knows people only care about the experience and looks and *most* people wouldn't know whats inside anyway. Unfortunately there are a few of us that DO know whats inside and NEED the greatest and latest.
We are the ones getting shafted in the end, but we cant do much about it anymore because we are now a minority as Apple has shifted into a consumer based giant, instead of the niche market it used to go after.
Max(IT)
Suspended
I'm an Apple user since 1989, and Apple's computer ALWAYS been expensive and not ever the "top notch performers".
The problem with a lot of people whining about performance started a few years ago, with the huge amount of PC's switchers and their typical "benchmark mood"
My two cents
keep in mind, we are not only paying for manufacturing costs of the product.
Also the idea and originality...
Most importantly we are also paying for the heads that turn in public, just to have a glimpse at the product 🙂
Also the idea and originality...
Most importantly we are also paying for the heads that turn in public, just to have a glimpse at the product 🙂
quantm
macrumors member
Btw, why do you want HDMI on MBP if there is a displayport which supports higher res and can be used as HDMI via adapter? I'd say dock-station would be more versatile solution (it could provide all the ports MBP lacks).
gfiz
macrumors 6502
An EULA is not a law. If you break it, cops aren't going to come beating down your door to arrest you. It's a contract between you and Apple, that if either party feels has broken it, you can sue in civil court to garner compensation,
And yes, Apple's margins on the MBP right now are ridiculous, and to the educated consumer are a terrible bargain (please don't tell me how great OS X is, I know it is, but I would never buy a copy off the shelf for $1000-$1500 for an OS, which is in essence what you're doing now). But ripping "us" off? If a consumer pays for a current MBP, then that is what it is worth to them. It is not Apple's concern that some buyers are educated and some are ignorant to computer hardware. Once the ignorant market is saturated, they'll release the next generation of MBP's.
And yes, Apple's margins on the MBP right now are ridiculous, and to the educated consumer are a terrible bargain (please don't tell me how great OS X is, I know it is, but I would never buy a copy off the shelf for $1000-$1500 for an OS, which is in essence what you're doing now). But ripping "us" off? If a consumer pays for a current MBP, then that is what it is worth to them. It is not Apple's concern that some buyers are educated and some are ignorant to computer hardware. Once the ignorant market is saturated, they'll release the next generation of MBP's.
quantm
macrumors member
my position is that the only the best parts of computer environment should survive in production. if OSX is better than MS than OSX should be sold separately. if Dell is better than Mac i want Dell and then - OSX on Dell. i do not want google Chrome only for google apps, and i do not want OSX only for Macs.
if Macs are really prominent than in "open market" they will survive without OSX binding, right? the binding is against "open market".
i suppose this dilemma can be solved only by forcing the enterprises politically to listen customers. the major problem here is how to avoid additional bureaucracy (at all) who solves these customer-manufacurer contradictions. and i know the mechanism to avoid it. in one of the next posts i will share the idea.
It's not about being educated or ignorant. I'm sure all of us here are educated. And we're also not paying the premium just for OS X. If OS X suddenly disappeared, I would still buy a mac with windows. We're paying for the design, the build quality, thickness and weight.
Apple is also not alone in producing luxury PCs. All PC companies do it, from Dell's Adamo, HP's ENVY, Sony's Z and X series. The VAIO X, by the way, is $1,500 for a PC with an Atom CPU. The only difference is that Apple doesn't have a "budget" line.
gfiz
macrumors 6502
Let me preface this buy saying I have a DIY PC, and work PC laptop, and a home g4 mac notebook, and I will be upgrading to a new MBP pretty soon, likely with this refesh....but you are deluding yourself if you believe there are not PC equivalents to the design, build quality (you sure about btw...they're all made by similar chinese oems.), thickness and weight. If you like the way it looks, then great. There is no other latpop out there with a lit-up apple on it, I'll give you that.
And I wasn't referring to people posting in this thread...by virtue of the fact you're engaged here, it means you have some semblance of knowledge, or at least the desire to learn. I'm talking about the majority out there that pop by an apple store or bestbuy while cruising the mall and say "ooh pretty" and buy a laptop without understand what components are out there and that by technology standards, the current offerings from Apple are archaic.
Never said there wasn't. If you'd read my post, you'd see I mentioned three of them (Dell's Adamo, HP's Envy, and Sony's X and Z). All these PCs have premium pricing that no lower than Apple's.
Regardless of whether Apple's prices are inflated (which they definitely currently are) I'd say the markets do work -
- Apple's market share is down in this economy. One would expect that in a recession, or it's aftermath - for a premium/over-priced product.
- Apple's marketing department is pretty good at what they do in generating demand for their product.
- Apple should get hurt by not offering the latest specs available for pcs and probably does, but their marketing gives them a bit more cushion compared to another pc manufacturer like Dell or Acer.
From a consumer's perspective - it helps to have threads like this to keep Apple honest. Education is a the key to smart consumers that can stand up to Apple's marketing - and if this thread were to become a post on the home page of Mac Rumors - it would help educate more consumers who otherwise might walk into an Apple store tomorrow and plop down 2K for an outdated laptop. It would also probably put Mac Rumors in Apple's dog house (if they're not already).
- Apple's market share is down in this economy. One would expect that in a recession, or it's aftermath - for a premium/over-priced product.
- Apple's marketing department is pretty good at what they do in generating demand for their product.
- Apple should get hurt by not offering the latest specs available for pcs and probably does, but their marketing gives them a bit more cushion compared to another pc manufacturer like Dell or Acer.
From a consumer's perspective - it helps to have threads like this to keep Apple honest. Education is a the key to smart consumers that can stand up to Apple's marketing - and if this thread were to become a post on the home page of Mac Rumors - it would help educate more consumers who otherwise might walk into an Apple store tomorrow and plop down 2K for an outdated laptop. It would also probably put Mac Rumors in Apple's dog house (if they're not already).
Just a few remarks here from another point of view. I'm from Australia, so my prices are a little skewed, but we usually get a change of prices via exchange rate +$200 +10% for GST.
However, Apple Laptops across the range SEEM to be within +/- $200 of equivalent "Quality" Laptops and Notebooks. What I'm talking about here are Sony Vaios, Dell Studio XPS, Lenovo Thinkpad Ws and the like. The specifications are similar, build quality is similar, battery life, graphics, screen and everything.
By "Quality" I mean a combination of build quality, accessories and extras. There are lots of cool little extras that float around with Apple Products. Whether it's the Magsafe Adapter, Fingerpad Gestures, the operating system itself, or the sheer fact that Core Audio API trumps Windows API any day. These are the reasons I would shell out the extra $200 for a Macbook. To be honest, since their price has come down, the Macbook (Pro) Range is definitely both affordable and I'm getting a solid product for the price that they cost. I do not believe -I'm- getting ripped off.
How that Notebook is not sold at a loss is beyond me though.
However, Apple Laptops across the range SEEM to be within +/- $200 of equivalent "Quality" Laptops and Notebooks. What I'm talking about here are Sony Vaios, Dell Studio XPS, Lenovo Thinkpad Ws and the like. The specifications are similar, build quality is similar, battery life, graphics, screen and everything.
By "Quality" I mean a combination of build quality, accessories and extras. There are lots of cool little extras that float around with Apple Products. Whether it's the Magsafe Adapter, Fingerpad Gestures, the operating system itself, or the sheer fact that Core Audio API trumps Windows API any day. These are the reasons I would shell out the extra $200 for a Macbook. To be honest, since their price has come down, the Macbook (Pro) Range is definitely both affordable and I'm getting a solid product for the price that they cost. I do not believe -I'm- getting ripped off.
How that Notebook is not sold at a loss is beyond me though.
mousouchop
macrumors 6502a
I agree with this guy 100%. User experience is everything. I would use my father's 2.0Ghz C2D Mac Mini before I would use a high-powered W7 machine. You pay for the overall experience, from the design of the hardware, to the design of the OS.
In the end, what I like to assign the cost to is the OS itself as OS is functional, has a lot of utility, where body design is fluff. Could I stand buying a less expensive, less attractive Mac? Probably, but where is the fun in that? 😛
Yes it is true but, do you miss to mention that "free market" is a myth?
Hence, since we lived in a regulated market then, exist some products that are overpriced, for example a Macbook.
Anyways, A macbook /pro is not the better in feature and in design (and specially in quality). People purchase a macbook pro because it is the only (or easy) way to use OSX.
I don't want to flamebait saying blu-ray but :
a) the audio car of the macbook pro is just a generic card.
b) the (most) powerful graphics card in macbook pro is not pro, neither is the more recent or powerful of the market, the 9600m gt is pretty outdated imo.
c) most pc notebook (and even netbook) come with over 4 usb port, in most MBP is 2.
d) The screen is still not fullhd.
Ok, a Macbook pro is not (so) expensive that other notebook but it is not a premium product.