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Is Apple ripping us off with the Macbook Pro?
- Thread starter wikoogle
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because if they do this , they'll lose control of the Eco system. Users won't be able to troll over to software updates for wares specifically for their hardware revision. There will be an implied synergy that the custom builds will eventually lack by using more/less powerful hardware than what apple has specifically tailored the OS to. People will inevitablly run into issues and bring their box to the Apple store rather than speak with the OEM, and when turned away will be confused and frustrated that the "Apple experience" isn't all it's cracked up to be, ignoring the fact that they hold a beige box in their hands.
Jist: If Apple allows it,they'll have to support it in some capacity on an official level. if not they will be villified by third party partners for unfair competition or something crybabyish like that .
Apple did during the 90's, but with earlier versions of their OS. They were called the clone makers. The trouble was these manufacturers were able to make better machines than Apple could. Second to that, they were taking marketshare from Apple's Mac market, not the PC market.
Apple's product can stay high because they have a different product to sell. Tough luck if you want to run OS X on other hardware. Who ever said OS X was the same thing as Windows or Linux? All 3 operating systems work on different models anyway, none of them are the same. I don't get the complainers, if you want their product then pay for it. Nobody can pick and choose the comfort and design of BMW cars without paying for the car so why does everybody expect different from Apple?
I said Apple is at a disadvantage because you have to buy the whole solution, you can't just walk into BB and bag a copy of Snow Leopard can you? You have to buy the whole machine, so of course Apple is at a disadvantage.
Another way to look at it would be that Apple is defining the computer market through lust factor, the implementation of their own OS and various technologies whether it be in hardware or software. People want their products but with the typical PC model, meaning people want to roll their own PC first and then buy OS X. People somehow then throw the words monopoly around when that isn't the case, especially when (and this is the biggest distinction between both companies) Microsoft tries to define the market by trying to control the market, whereas Apple just want to control their own products.
Apple tell YOU they are a hardware company, I believe at the last keynote they said they see themselves as a mobile products company, when in fact a few keynotes before that they said they were the only PC company who provided a total solution. It's all marketing and more importantly never said they were after profits, they have always wanted to make the best product possible (then profits come), hence their use of the Alan Kay quote:People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.
You should also check out their profit earnings from the last quarter, they are making huge sums of money and considering their market share, they are catching up on MS in profit. They have proven that by keeping to a model where they sell a total solution they can make huge profits. I believe you don't know what you're talking about.
Yeah, they do. But Apple owns the market for these type of laptops, there's no competition so they can charge as much as they like! Though if someone did compete with Apple and made more affordable quality Unibody laptops Apple might just get their ass pwoned!
Yeah, they do. But Apple owns the market for these type of laptops, there's no competition so they can charge as much as they like! Though if someone did compete with Apple and made more affordable quality Unibody laptops Apple might just get their ass pwoned!
That's what happened in the Clone Wars of the mid-90's. It cost them a bundle, and represents a mistake they're not likely to repeat anytime soon.
ofcourse apple is ripping people off, but majority of the "fanboys" will have no problem dropping over $2k for a $500 laptop. unfortunately some people actually need these systems for work, and they don't have much choice but to pay a premium in order to use osx legally.
My opinion is no they are not. When I buy a laptop that will last up to or surpass 6 years and will probably have to throw it away before it breaks I say it was money well spent.
Another way you can look at it is you could buy a gm car for almost half of what a Honda or Toyota costs but than again you going to pay for it in the long run. My old mac lasted 5 1/2 years and died the day it died I was not mad I was not kicking myself for getting a mac. I was very happy to walk in and drop another 1700 bucks at the apple store.
Just a side thought my family all have laptops a Toshiba a HP and a Sony. So far the Toshiba has crashed and the power cord failed. The HP the power plug is already badly worn out and has to be placed a certain way to charge. The Sony is only 2 months old and no problems yet.
Another way you can look at it is you could buy a gm car for almost half of what a Honda or Toyota costs but than again you going to pay for it in the long run. My old mac lasted 5 1/2 years and died the day it died I was not mad I was not kicking myself for getting a mac. I was very happy to walk in and drop another 1700 bucks at the apple store.
Just a side thought my family all have laptops a Toshiba a HP and a Sony. So far the Toshiba has crashed and the power cord failed. The HP the power plug is already badly worn out and has to be placed a certain way to charge. The Sony is only 2 months old and no problems yet.
While I absolutely agree that MBPs are overpriced at the moment, the things you list here are actually pretty big factors in terms of cost, because it involves actual people.
Great analogy, pick a car that loses about £4m with each sale due to the production costs being extortionate, but don't worry, we get the point
When Apple market their products, do they aim for the low end of the market? The budget computer? No they don't. They play on the brand of Apple, being one that is so strongly associated with quality, style, excellence that they're entitled to market their quality products at a premium. And don't give that ******** that they should be treating their loyal customers better - Apple overall are actually cheaper now than they used to be are they not?
You don't build up a brand only to then market your branded products to the budget computer market. You wouldn't catch someone like Ferarri entering the budget market, despite being owned by the Fiat Group. They are premium priced for a reason. Quality and branding.
Apple is a brand, with quality = simple.
core 2 duo with that pos GPU's is a TOTAL RIP OFF.
if you are even trying to defend apple here you are an apologist and unrealistic.
people should be paying 2k for tech 1-2 generations behind
if you are even trying to defend apple here you are an apologist and unrealistic.
people should be paying 2k for tech 1-2 generations behind
$500 in parts probably yes, $500 in value no. I know the 17" MBP isn't worth the asking price in terms of raw hardware specs compared to windows machines priced at $499 or whatever, but I do want it for the perceived value I will get from it. The value is the hook for me, not the hardware so much.
If I want to spend my money on something, that is my choice to buy then is it a rip off? I'm not defending Apple, you're simplifying other peoples arguments and their reasons for buying Apple gear.
Again I could buy that BMW if I wanted, even though there is cheaper alternatives for driving with 4 wheels. Are BMW a ripoff? Am I and others apologists for owning BMWs?
Any argument you make will always be flawed because you and others won't include OS X in the price which is certainly valuable to many people. But in terms of hardware you and many others are right, Apple are more expensive and more bang for the buck can be found elsewhere.
But so what when OS X is the defining element of the products they sell?
I've bought an hp on my first year of college lasted an year and a few months, had to replace motherboard, ram, harddrive and lcd. And after replacing the lcd in an unauthorized store hp refused to replace the motherboard that fried once again. the hp costed about 900 eur.
Now even this moment to buy a better macbook pro with WORSE specs I have to pay 1.599 and I get a some what worse laptop than the hp I bought a long a go. So I hope when I buy an macbook pro that it doesnt bring any problems or else I will be pissed at apple
Now even this moment to buy a better macbook pro with WORSE specs I have to pay 1.599 and I get a some what worse laptop than the hp I bought a long a go. So I hope when I buy an macbook pro that it doesnt bring any problems or else I will be pissed at apple
Bad analogy. A BMW is typically much better equipped and has a more powerful and efficient engine than the cheaper alternatives, in addition of being (at least in our minds) built to higher quality standards, has a better ride quality etc.
The current MBPs are more like paying BMW prices for a basic Honda with a pretty bodykit.
A Virus Free Life is what turned me into a Mac User.
Have a look at all the trials and bloatware you get when you buy a PC, that's what I consider a rip off.
Have a look at all the trials and bloatware you get when you buy a PC, that's what I consider a rip off.
I don't feel ripped off. I have a 5 (going on 6) year old 15" Powerbook G4 (in my sig), that I paid $2100 for originally. It has been a great computer and got me through college with no problems. Even today it does your everyday tasks just fine. I just posted it to craigslist to sell it so I can purchase a new 13" MBP when Apple refreshes them. I sold my PB for $450! So for 5-6 years of fantastic, problem free use I sold it for nearly 1/4 of the original price. What other laptop can you say that about?
You don't even need crap ware to make your pc life miserable or viruses. didn't have any of those formated the pc when i bought it but still had loads of software problems. as an engineering student i have better things to do than fix the pc all the time, that's why apple sells good, a lot less to worry, but if they keep on screwing up they end up as microsoft. i've been hackintoshing since the first days and with the right hardware is even easier to install than windows and less trouble..
you can't really compare cars to computers. a bmw is more expensive than say a dodge, and it comes with more features. a mac is more expensive than a pc, but it comes with less features.
A Mac has more features when you consider that you can run windows/linux and OS X on a mac.
The OS X component is everything you just said the BMW has over other cars. Value is subjective though.
In any case, I can only assume that if the two of you are going to pick my bad analogy apart, you agree with everything else I said.
raw materials for the lower enclosure of a 17" MBP are around $100-150 depending on the actual alloy used to make it.
tie into that a couple of hours of CNC time, and you can see how just the lower case part can run up to $300 or all ready 60% of your $500 laptops.
tie into that a couple of hours of CNC time, and you can see how just the lower case part can run up to $300 or all ready 60% of your $500 laptops.
OSX is 1-2 generations behind what? Or are you referring to the hardware and not the software on it?
As the guy above says, you can argue against all the components in the Mac making it a rip-off, but given the choice between Windows and OSX do you really think they should both be shelved at the same price? Quality prevails, and you cannot disagree that the premium you're paying is for quality. At the end of the day, if a PC and a Mac shared the same components, but the only differential was the operating system, would you chose the Windows because it was cheaper, and you'd think Apple was ripping you off? No you wouldn't. Its like choosing to use MS Paint over Photoshop - one is clearly going to be better because it's built better, it works better, it requires less pain to get the most out of it.
You get what you pay for, with anything in life. You want to build your own home, you can pay for an expensive quality proven team to build it, or a cheap team to build it, that cock it up when the foundations are all wrong and you have to keep rebuilding it... I have friends who have rebuilt their PCs countless times, taken it to repair stores, spend on subscriptions for virus scanners, constantly upgrading because the latest OS released is more resource hungry. I also know of people who have had the same trouble free Mac for years, and over time paid less then the PC owners in both time, and cost of fixes etc.
The initial outlay seems expensive, a rip off. But what is your time worth to you? What is an upgrade a year later worth, added a subscription to Norton etc?
Come again? Getting potentially useful stuff bundled with your computer (that you can easily uninstall if you want to) is somehow a bad thing? I guess you'd be getting a proper fit if Apple was to ship a trial version of, say, iWork with every Macbook?
No, OS X would be the "better ride quality", and that's fairly subjective as well. Some people might actually prefer a much softer ride as opposed to the BMW's somewhat hard, "built-to-eat-corners" ride. The engine and other accessories would be the technical specs, which are rather unimpressive on the current MBPs, considering that it is supposed to be a high-end notebook.
Get real. Comparing "Windows 7 vs. OS X" to "MS Paint vs. Photoshop" does nothing else but show that you're not very well connected to reality.
EDIT: I might need to take a look at that "multi-quote" thingy...