Apple laptops don't have inherently better build quality than the competition's products; that's a myth. Apple's hardware is generally pretty reliable and their support is good, but their hardware has the same failure rates as that of most other manufacturers. See here: http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf
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Is Apple ripping us off with the Macbook Pro?
- Thread starter wikoogle
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Apple laptops don't have inherently better build quality than the competition's products; that's a myth. Apple's hardware is generally pretty reliable and their support is good, but their hardware has the same failure rates as that of most other manufacturers. See here: http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf
I don't buy Macs for the hardware, I buy them because I like OSX better than Windows, and because of the more solid and rewarding hardware/software integration. I don't know if they cost more or not. When I price the level of Mac Pro or MacBook Pro that I CTO, the cost comes out pretty close to what I'd pay at Dell. Yes, Apple has decided to forego extensive competition in the low-end part of the market. I don't care - it doesn't affect me. I have a stake in Apple doing well so that they'll continue to innovate in the portion of the market where I need them. So whatever it takes for the company to be successful is fine with me. I must be right in the middle of their target market. I can understand the frustration of those of you who apparently are not, but I can't see that I have any reason to care.
You should reconsider this. The only reason Apple continues to survive and innovate in your portion of the market is because of people in the lower portion buying iPods and MacBooks.
Given their history, I have confidence that Apple has a better handle on their market than I do, and better than anyone who posts here on MacRumors. Obviously, they've been performing adequately in that lower-end market space and I have no reason to suspect that will change.
First of all: there is people who need 15" or 17" screen.
Not to mention something like aluminum case, backlight keyboard, FireWire ports ...
These are not "specs" but actually useful things ...
iPods are very expensive mp3 players, and Macbooks aren't cheap notebooks too.
So we are not speaking of "lower portion" ...
Apple is not a cheap manufacturer, by no means
Apple could make a $500 netbook, but that's not part of their marketing plan. They're doing well, and have been for a decade, by avoiding the "cheap" portion of the market.
Whatever your complaint about Apple's market coverage, the end result certainly seems to indicate that they've been on the right track.
Whatever your complaint about Apple's market coverage, the end result certainly seems to indicate that they've been on the right track.
That's exactly my point
I didn't complain about nothing: I don't need any netbook.
My next notebook will be another MBP, by the end of 2011.
Do you know why? http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10451132-1.html They sell their higher end stuff at 2-3 times and value if u get same thing else where it will be half the price. So sell less and make 3 times the money because they know there are at least ~ few million people who will buy apple for any price so they feed off them. Do you think if HP or any other company did same thing apple is doing they would get away with it? They are selling 1-2 year old technology in nicely wrapped gift packing for 2-3 times the price. Now that is smart marketing. Also other bright side to all this is that they sell less make more money have less manufacturing mistakes(faulty hardware) unlike HP/Dell because of less demand compared to others... hence apple hardware then others due to less mistakes. Oh well life continues.. that my 2 cents.
Are people being ripped off, no. The specs are clearly stated and you know exactly what you are getting as far as hardware.
If you want a machine with high-end specs, go get one. Have fun, enjoy yourself. It's all about the value to you. If specs are what you value, then Apple is not the best buy for you.
For myself, Windows is a pig. Dealing with it is a big PITA, as far as I'm concerned. I get more real work done on OS X than I ever did on Windows. For me, the value of how well OS X performs, not having to deal with virii, registries, and other oddities of Windows at any version are well worth what I pay to go with Apple products. Having a complete Unix environment, including X makes things a lot better for me.
And frankly, OS X on a machine with lower specs works better for me than Windows on a machine with higher specs.
The updates will come out when they come out. And at that time, someone will sell something with all kinds of specs and gizmo's and extra keys and Windows and all kinds of bloatware added on and if you want it, go get it. But trolling around with the suggestion that Apple is ripping people off is just plain asinine.
Sure. Smart marketing plan, I agree. Whatever, Apple's stuff meets my computing needs, my mobile entertainment needs, and fits my budget.
While I agree with you and obviously also prefer OS X to Windows, I do think many people here are sometimes a little too forgiving of some of Apple's escapades. We shouldn't have to choose between great specs and a superior user experience; at Apple's prices, we should simply get both. So I think it's only fair to point out the areas where Apple is getting a bit lazy and falling behind the competition. This can't just be shrugged off by saying "specs are not important".
When most people talk about Apple's "build quality", they are referring to to the non-electronic portion of the devices, such as the casing.
In that regard, there is little doubt that Apple is the industry leader.
That is one of the main reasons why I am making the switch from PC to Mac.
Historically in this country, many businesses of had excellent business strategies that raked in a lot of profit for the company. If you are an owner or share holder, this is definitely good for you. If you are consumer, maybe not. Well, in this case I am the consumer, so how much I have to fork up for a computer does matter, especially when the company is making such a high profit margin for its products.
So as a consumer, I do feel I have the right to voice my concern about products that "I THINK" are overpriced. Consumers do this about a variety of products, and depend on competition to drive prices down. If apple's competition didn't suck so much, there would be lower prices for their hardware, but until the windows experience "just works," there won't be adequate comp.
To the argument that someone is willing to pay a premium for a computer that works well hassle free; I truly understand, which is why I use osx. But why not charge the premium on the osx, and price the hardware realistically?
So as a consumer, I do feel I have the right to voice my concern about products that "I THINK" are overpriced. Consumers do this about a variety of products, and depend on competition to drive prices down. If apple's competition didn't suck so much, there would be lower prices for their hardware, but until the windows experience "just works," there won't be adequate comp.
To the argument that someone is willing to pay a premium for a computer that works well hassle free; I truly understand, which is why I use osx. But why not charge the premium on the osx, and price the hardware realistically?
No question. And, of course, the internet gives everyone a voice to express that sentiment. Unfortunately, modern marketing methods don't generally include reviewing sites like MacRumors no matter how much we would all like to believe that Steve Jobs is reading every single post here. In the end, the only vote they really count is the one you make with your wallet.
do you think the HP/Dell they sell for 600$ costs more than 350$ ?
Ah, ok, I know: bashing Apple is much more cool ...
Go ahead
Yeah. These are specs. Just admit it. Some people need 15" screen and others need faster CPU or better GPU. It's all in the specs.
Maybe Apple should start selling Macs with more updated technology such as washed out low contrast screens which is what you find on the latest Windows notebooks. Yeah, all of Apple's notebooks are behind the times, they still still use high contrast, high color gamut LED backlit displays. APPLE!! GET WITH THE PROGRAM AND START USING POOR SCREENS LIKE THE REST OF THE INDUSTRY DOES!
Some of us are sadly in 2010.Maybe Apple should start selling Macs with more updated technology such as washed out low contrast screens which is what you find on the latest Windows notebooks. Yeah, all of Apple's notebooks are behind the times, they still still use high contrast, high color gamut LED backlit displays. APPLE!! GET WITH THE PROGRAM AND START USING POOR SCREENS LIKE THE REST OF THE INDUSTRY DOES!
Maybe Apple should start selling Macs with more updated technology such as washed out low contrast screens which is what you find on the latest Windows notebooks. Yeah, all of Apple's notebooks are behind the times, they still still use high contrast, high color gamut LED backlit displays. APPLE!! GET WITH THE PROGRAM AND START USING POOR SCREENS LIKE THE REST OF THE INDUSTRY DOES!
You are mistaken to think that Apple screens are the best. Try to look outside the Apple-centric forums. DELL sells laptops with RGB LED backlit. Here is what wikipedia says about this: "LED backlighting in color screens comes in two flavors: white LED backlights and RGB LED backlights[1]. White LEDs are used most often in notebooks and desktop screens, and in virtually all mobile LCD screens. A white LED is actually a blue LED with yellow phosphor to give the impression of white light. The spectral curve has big gaps in the green and red parts. RGB LEDs consist of a red, a blue, and a green LED and can be controlled to produce different temperatures of white. RGB LEDs for backlighting are found in high end color proofing displays such as HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor or selected HP 8730w notebooks, as well as newer consumer grade displays such as Dell's Studio series laptops which have an optional RGB LED display." Link
The unibody is great, but if you look at other manufacturers' more expensive laptops, you're also getting pretty good enclosures. Sony uses carbon fibre, which isn't bad, the Thinkpads are made of some kind of very solid plastic (might even be a magnesium alloy, don't know, but they're apparenty rock solid), and HP's Elitebooks have an aluminium enclosure, a spill-resistant keyboard, metal hinges and conform to the US military's durability standards. So yeah, unibody is awesome, but it's not like everyone else is just offering hunks of plastic in the MBP's price range. If you do buy a hunk of plastic from Dell or HP or whomever, it will probably cost 50% of the price of an MBP, so whatever...
Those same people talk about Apple having best everything. Since when aluminum cases are considered the best? Sony using carbon fiber cases builds ultralite laptops that weight as little (or less) as Macbooks Air but pack more components (for example, two SSDs)> Here is one such model. Other manufacturers prefer magnesium alloy which is also much better case material than aluminum. Admittedly, aluminum is cheaper.
products are manufactured to give them the highest margin of profit. they probably spend $1200 manufacturing so they make 30-40% profit. good for them and bad for us
Honestly it really doesn't matter and shouldn't matter to US how much profit Apple makes as that's something we can't control so there's no point in arguing about this as many people do here. But if you think it's good for them and BAD for us then you shouldn't buying anything Apple then right? I don't feel the way you do, BTW.
Go buy a Dell, then, and live happy with that ...Yeah. These are specs. Just admit it. Some people need 15" screen and others need faster CPU or better GPU. It's all in the specs.
I really hope they don't listen to youMaybe Apple should start selling Macs with more updated technology such as washed out low contrast screens which is what you find on the latest Windows notebooks. Yeah, all of Apple's notebooks are behind the times, they still still use high contrast, high color gamut LED backlit displays. APPLE!! GET WITH THE PROGRAM AND START USING POOR SCREENS LIKE THE REST OF THE INDUSTRY DOES!
OMG, you are speaking about QUALITY and you listed HP and Dell products ...
Give me a break ...
Did you ever touch a Sony creaking "fabulous" notebook ? And Sony is indeed the only other manufacturer that sell "quality" notebooks ...