Is iOS 8 bad coding or planned obsolescence?

[Altis]

All of this could be mitigated if Apple would allow downgrading the os

Indeed this is the truth.

In fact, it's quite funny when you think of how long we spend waiting for bug fixes, just to have a new version come out that needs more bug fixes.

We were trapped on the sluggish and buggy 7.0 for half a year before we got 7.1. I still remember people saying it "runs fine" and all on 7.0, which of course, it didn't. When 7.1 came out, it was very noticeable how much speed we had lost with 7.0.

The lack of being able to downgrade the software version is a major consideration for me now. I've been burned too many times, and really, for what?

Like OP, I can't help but wonder what's so much more demanding in iOS 8 that it runs so poorly compared with 7.1 (and the blazing-quick 6).

Perhaps they're trying to get people to upgrade when they can't take it anymore, then they patch it up for those who refused to update.

 

[Merkie]

I think the larger issue is that Apple is fixed to an annual product cycle, and they want to release each new iPhone with a new version of iOS. Android OEMs, and Samsung in particular, release phones throughout the year, and don't necessarily coincide new releases with new versions of Android (since they don't control when Google releases them).

That's a good point. This way of working inherently makes the development process always focus on features rather than performance (you want to ship something new).

 

[Imory]

I'd love to know if anyone using 8.1.1 has seen any performance improvements?

 

[Bahroo]

I think its more a case of trying to do too much too quickly.

If you ever listen to podcasts with ex-apple employees (e.g. Debug podacst - http://www.imore.com/debug-48-melton-ganatra-episode-ii-understanding-apple) they talk a lot about the iOS life cycle. Sounds like they release a new version of iOS, they then spend the first couple of months fixing bugs. Then they have a few months of planning the next release, and in the end have maybe 3 or 4 months in order to code. So to us its 12 months between releases, but actually its only 3-4 where they have time to code things.

I hold out hope that instead of new features, they start looking to bug fixes and performance. Maybe a iOS 8.5 instead of 9!
I also hope that having the iPad Mini 1 still around means they may take the performance improvements for older hardware mroe serious.. but thats wishful thinking!

Another small point is that, according to the ex-apple employees, they never ever do any sort of planned obsolescence, or code anything to be slow on old hardware. They actually get quite angry when people even suggest that they do - so i'm going to believe them

This, iOS 8 Is the biggest update to iOS basically ever, under the hood too; over 4000 brand new API's to the system added, so itll take time to completly streamline it , and also for 3rd party applicstions to be updated for better performance and less memory use, etc

I came from a 5S running on 8.0.2 at the time and it was buttery smooth and fast as always though, So I am not really sure what OP is saying, the 5S still feels and is blisteringaly fast.

 

[Septembersrain]

I think the biggest issue with iOS 8 is simply that it's more of a RAM hog. Just looking at the animations and added features that run in the background, I'm surprised they didn't include 2GB RAM for the 6/6+.

I could be wrong but crashing and having Safari reloads.. That seems RAM related right?

 

[Dark Goob]

As a professional programmer, I can authoritatively say that iOS 8 is not bad coding, per se, but more accurately: bad engineering from the top, down.

You see, the problem with Apple today is that they have stopped engineering from the user's perspective. They obviously did not consider what someone who owns, say, an iPad 2 would want out of iOS 8. Otherwise they would not have ruined iPad 2 with the worst software "update" they've ever released.

They did not think, "what is the problem we are trying to solve here?" And then engineer the best possible solution to that problem.

No, they just went crazy and lost their minds and made a terrible mistake.

This comes from nobody being willing to say "no", from a lack of focus, a lack of true leadership, a lack of Steve.

People might have hated Scott Forestall but that's because he told people ******* NO, that's stupid. But clearly nobody today at Apple is telling anyone, "******* NO that's stupid" when something is ********ing stupid.

Otherwise this would not have happened.

----------

You're asking about iOS 8?

Are you ignoring how iOS 7 slowed devices down and caused problems, getting people to complain about planned obsolescence?

Are you ignoring how iOS 6 slowed devices down and caused problems, getting people to complain about planned obsolescence?

Are you ignoring how iOS 5 slowed devices down and caused problems, getting people to complain about planned obsolescence?

Are you ignoring how iOS 4 slowed devices down and caused problems, getting people to complain about planned obsolescence?

...

No, there is nothing special or different with iOS 8. If you think there is, then you've obviously never used previous devices or paid attention to the complaints of those who did.

It's much worse with iOS 8.

iPad 2 represents 27% of the installed base!. They were selling the iPad 2 up until very recently! Now they've all but bricked the lot of them that "updated". That's irresponsible and AWFUL of Apple to do. It shows a lack of testing and more importantly *a lack of caring*.

This is going to lose Apple tons of customers.

 

[Imory]

This, iOS 8 Is the biggest update to iOS basically ever, under the hood too; over 4000 brand new API's to the system added, so itll take time to completly streamline it , and also for 3rd party applicstions to be updated for better performance and less memory use, etc

I came from a 5S running on 8.0.2 at the time and it was buttery smooth and fast as always though, So I am not really sure what OP is saying, the 5S still feels and is blisteringaly fast.

I think I was being very clear. You don't experience any lag or frame dropping from the examples I gave? The weather app and the recents section from the phone app?

----------

I think the biggest issue with iOS 8 is simply that it's more of a RAM hog. Just looking at the animations and added features that run in the background, I'm surprised they didn't include 2GB RAM for the 6/6+.

I could be wrong but crashing and having Safari reloads.. That seems RAM related right?

Well, Anandtech made it very clear with their review of iPhone 5S how the memory footprint of going to 64-bit was going to be bigger, hence more RAM would give it a better experience. Apple never gave that and given how the rest of the hardware is top of the line, I do find it very strange why they didn't include more RAM. Some speculate it's planned obsolescence, others that it's related to battery usage.

Reloading in the way iOS does it could be a result of how it's designed and also RAM constraints. The iPad Air 2 apparently doesn't suffer from the same problem thanks to 2 GB of RAM.

As a professional programmer, I can authoritatively say that iOS 8 is not bad coding, per se, but more accurately: bad engineering from the top, down.

You see, the problem with Apple today is that they have stopped engineering from the user's perspective. They obviously did not consider what someone who owns, say, an iPad 2 would want out of iOS 8. Otherwise they would not have ruined iPad 2 with the worst software "update" they've ever released.

They did not think, "what is the problem we are trying to solve here?" And then engineer the best possible solution to that problem.

No, they just went crazy and lost their minds and made a terrible mistake.

This comes from nobody being willing to say "no", from a lack of focus, a lack of true leadership, a lack of Steve.

People might have hated Scott Forestall but that's because he told people ******* NO, that's stupid. But clearly nobody today at Apple is telling anyone, "******* NO that's stupid" when something is ********ing stupid.

Otherwise this would not have happened.

----------

Interesting.

 

[mr.bee]

every OS or piece of software that Apple has written is optimized for the latest and greatest device.
Older devices have less priority. Maybe in a first/ second (or even third) patch.

What's your problem? I'd do exactly the same if my resources were limited.

Planned obsolescence? sounds like too much effort for what it's worth.

 

[Richard W.]

Nothing lasts forever, of course, and I didn't expect my iPad 2 to be the last tablet I ever need to buy.

Still, it was a dirty trick to even tell us iPad 2 dinosaurs that we could update to 8. Can't use the new bells and whistles, anyway, and it ran like a top with 7.

 

[Bahroo]

I think I was being very clear. You don't experience any lag or frame dropping from the examples I gave? The weather app and the recents section from the phone app?

----------



Well, Anandtech made it very clear with their review of iPhone 5S how the memory footprint of going to 64-bit was going to be bigger, hence more RAM would give it a better experience. Apple never gave that and given how the rest of the hardware is top of the line, I do find it very strange why they didn't include more RAM. Some speculate it's planned obsolescence, others that it's related to battery usage.

Reloading in the way iOS does it could be a result of how it's designed and also RAM constraints. The iPad Air 2 apparently doesn't suffer from the same problem thanks to 2 GB of RAM.



Interesting.

Surely the Air 2 would run better with double the RAM, but also remember alot of apps still havent been updated to iOS 8/ new iPhones and also the new Apple A8's, they have to optimize and reduce memory footprint and any glitches in their applications(the ones that havent been updated to iOS 8/new iPhones yet)

So say "x" app uses 50 mb of RAM right now alone and isnt optimized for iOS 8 Yet or the new iPhones, when it does get updated, itll use lets say roughly about 25 mb of RAM after update and performance enhancements and optimized for new iPhones( little memory increases like that and stuff is very important and every MB counts when you only have 1 GB of RAM)

You get the idea here

 

[Imory]

every OS or piece of software that Apple has written is optimized for the latest and greatest device.
Older devices have less priority. Maybe in a first/ second (or even third) patch.

What's your problem? I'd do exactly the same if my resources were limited.

Planned obsolescence? sounds like too much effort for what it's worth.

Except that it doesn't run flawlessly on the new devices.

And why would one ever find that acceptable? Releasing a new OS that will run worse than the previous version, "but just hold on until we update it in x amount of months?" No, that's a mindset I don't want to find myself accepting as a consumer and a customer.

My problem? My (our) problem is very clear. I would advise you to read my first post again, thoroughly, in order for you to understand.

Surely the Air 2 would run better with double the RAM, but also remember alot of apps still havent been updated to iOS 8/ new iPhones and also the new Apple A8's, they have to optimize and reduce memory footprint and any glitches in their applications(the ones that havent been updated to iOS 8/new iPhones yet)

So say "x" app uses 50 mb of RAM right now alone and isnt optimized for iOS 8 Yet or the new iPhones, when it does get updated, itll use lets say roughly about 25 mb of RAM after update and performance enhancements and optimized for new iPhones( little memory increases like that and stuff is very important and every MB counts when you only have 1 GB of RAM)

You get the idea here

You're right from an engineering standpoint. The problem though is that this issue was already present in iOS 7 with the 5S, which Apple clearly knew before releasing the phone. Despite the amount of updates and engineering, the phone was held back by the lack of RAM and iOS aggressive memory management. Things haven't improved in iOS 8 and I tried a 6 with only iOS 8 updated software.

The problem is ironically, most evident in Apples own software. Apps like Safari, Podcast etc all suffer from the lack of RAM and the way iOS conducts memory management in iOS 8.

No, I think it's just a combination of keeping costs down and the incentive to keep customers on the fence for future updates. Perhaps even introducing features in the near future which will make the 1 GB of RAM show why it suddenly becomes a very convenient bottleneck.

 

[AdonisSMU]

Good post. Very well written.

Im thinking it could be both... Planned obsolence for sure (which is like flipping finger to customers). But because there are so many bugs in iOS8, its also bad coding.

Apple has to pay down their tech debt. Maybe fixing the bugs. They have so many new features now. Maybe it's time for code clean up.

 

[cmichaelb]

I had iOS 8 on my 5S and I had no issues. I didnt notice any issues at all.

 

[Infrared]

Is iOS 8 bad coding or planned obsolescence?

Whether it is planned obsolence or not is academic as far as I'm concerned. What bothers many people, w.r.t. to iOS, is that they dare not upgrade because it is too risky with no undo option. Apple's signing policy is what is keeping them on an earlier version of iOS. What does it say about Apple's quality control that they feel they have to force people to stay with a newer version of iOS? If the newer version were better then people would not need to be coerced. Coercion reinforces complacency.

Apple have a mixed track record regarding performance. There are times when they have produced software with very respectable responsiveness. In particular, I cast my mind back to when the new style iMovie came out and how impressive and speedy that was. And there was a time when Apple's Mac OS was trouncing Vista. On the other hand, one day I had to ask myself how a Mac that could comfortably handle Crysis was somehow unable to resize an iTunes window smoothly. And when I compare my ancient Mac, unearthed by archaeologists and running Snow Leopard, it destroys the new Macs in the Apple stores for speed. And, bizarrely, they don't seem to be overtly doing anything more that I would want from a Mac.

 

[Imory]

I had iOS 8 on my 5S and I had no issues. I didnt notice any issues at all.

I advise everyone to read the first post of this thread, and also realise that it doesn't occur in every segment of iOS. Otherwise it would have been lambasted. However, I'm pretty convinced your 5S suffered the same issues I mentioned. All phones share the same hardware, software and it's just a question of who has noticed it at this point.

 

[jaymzuk]

The way I see it is that this is the flip side to having the hardware and software being made for each other.

The two need to be developed in tandem with one another. Apple's hardware cycle is so fixed that we could have a very good stab at when the next iPhone will be released, and therefore when the next major iteration of iOS will hit.

Contrasting that with other operating systems, Android doesn't really suffer from that. Google can push out it's next major update whenever it likes, they're not being held to an associated hardware release. It's the same on desktop. Microsoft lays out a feature set, and manufacturers work around it (It's a lot more complex than that, but the underlying point is true).


Personally, I believe it's planned obsolescence. I've bought an iPhone 6 after switching back and forth between iPhone and Android, and the iPhone 6 is very nice, and works well, but there's nothing that has struck me as being a magnificent upgrade since I owned my iPhone 4S. Doing it this way makes it appear that Apple is doing everything it can to squeeze every last drop out of hardware, when the best thing for a customer would be to never allow iOS 8 onto an iPad 2.

But that's the way of the world. As much as people mock Android manufacturers for not updating handsets on a timely manner, if at all, at least they don't go out of their way to hamstring a device.

 

[mjschabow]

Wish I could answer the question in the OP, but wow has ios8 changed my opinion of Apple. I have an iPhone 6 Plus and I've had more reboots in the last 2 months than I've had on any phone including Androids.

Probably going to switch to the Note 4 or Nexus 6 at this point.

 

[Zxxv]

whose fault.... apples or app developers, whose codes is at fault?

 

[NeoX360]

I advise everyone to read the first post of this thread, and also realise that it doesn't occur in every segment of iOS. Otherwise it would have been lambasted. However, I'm pretty convinced your 5S suffered the same issues I mentioned. All phones share the same hardware, software and it's just a question of who has noticed it at this point.

I read the first post and although my iPad 4 has suffered some slow down in a couple areas, nothing major.

My iPhone 5 is silky smooth and I have not seen any slow down anywhere. I tried the weather app and I do not see any dropped frames scrolling through it, it is silky smooth.

You also mentioned the recent calls list in the phone app. Again silky smooth and not a hint of stuttering.

For me at least it has been a great experience on my iPhone 5 and an ok experience on my iPad 4. I'm hopping Apple will iron out the performance glitches in time.

 

[s2mikey]

The real head scratcher here is why some people seem to be having a good experience with the latest OS but others don't. Why is that? I suppose everyone uses the devices differently but the reviews really are all over the place.

I've been pretty happy with the latest OS on my Air. It's the safari bugs that have to be ironed out, IMO.

 

[Bahroo]

Of course its planned obsolescence. Anybody who thinks otherwise is a fool. If Apple actually cared about older devices they'd support their older software instead of just instantly dropping it in favour of the new version.

This is nonsense and rubbish, how is older hardware going to handle all the brand new API's That are coming every year? Also brand new hardware-related API's (like Bluetooth 4.1 API's , NFC Api's etc....)

Your post is like saying, "why dont they put Windows 7/8 on a Pentium 4??"

----------

6 Plus on iOS 8.1 with Reduce Motion and Reduce Transparency on(i prefer and like the fade animation better on Reduce motion over the stock animation) and my 6 Plus is extremely buttery smooth, the fastest iPhone I ever owned for sure(obviously, has the latest Apple A processor)

 

[Paddle1]

This is nonsense and rubbish, how is older hardware going to handle all the brand new API's That are coming every year? Also brand new hardware-related API's (like Bluetooth 4.1 API's , NFC Api's etc....)

Your post is like saying, "why dont they put Windows 7/8 on a Pentium 4??"

----------

6 Plus on iOS 8.1 with Reduce Motion and Reduce Transparency on(i prefer and like the fade animation better on Reduce motion over the stock animation) and my 6 Plus is extremely buttery smooth, the fastest iPhone I ever owned for sure(obviously, has the latest Apple A processor)

It sounds like you agree with him?

 

[Bahroo]

It sounds like you agree with him?

How does it sound like I agree with him? Every iPhone i owned has been buttery smooth at their respective time , and with the 5, 5S and 6 that I have owned, I have not experienced any lag at all, and on my Plus it is buttery smooth too

Its like saying Microsoft should add Pentium 4 support to Windows 8, doesnt make sense at all, its not planned obsolence at all...its called, exponential times and technology growing at a exponential rate

 

[NeoX360]

Its like saying Microsoft should add Pentium 4 support to Windows 8, doesnt make sense at all, its not planned obsolence at all...its called, exponential times and technology growing at a exponential rate

lol, windows 8 does support pentium 4's. In fact you can run windows 8 on some pentium III's, although i dont think you would want to. Thats the point, though, i dont think it is so much planned obsolescence as it is a fact that they code for the newest hardware and many times sacrafice performance on older systems for added features. Could they write more tighter and optimized code? They sure could. But it is what it is and newer releases are always likely to be slower on the same hardware. My 2008 mb pro runs 10.10, but not ideal.

 

[roadbloc]

This is nonsense and rubbish, how is older hardware going to handle all the brand new API's That are coming every year? Also brand new hardware-related API's (like Bluetooth 4.1 API's , NFC Api's etc....)

Your post is like saying, "why dont they put Windows 7/8 on a Pentium 4??"

----------

6 Plus on iOS 8.1 with Reduce Motion and Reduce Transparency on(i prefer and like the fade animation better on Reduce motion over the stock animation) and my 6 Plus is extremely buttery smooth, the fastest iPhone I ever owned for sure(obviously, has the latest Apple A processor)

Um... did you even read my post? None of that has anything to do with what I posted.