Is iOS 8 bad coding or planned obsolescence?

[Winona Northdakota]

I'm completely lost at this point. I think we're talking about two different things entirely.

People don't have to remove/disable the features Apple recently implemented which were used to highlight the power behind these modern chipsets.

 

[Imory]

People don't have to remove/disable the features Apple recently implemented which were used to highlight the power behind these modern chipsets.

Bahroo mentioned an example where he did it in order to improve the framerate. You don't have to do it, but if you want an experience with no lag, that's pretty much what you need to do. The 6 Plus does suffer from GUI lag and that's one of the temporary solutions.

 

[Winona Northdakota]

Bahroo mentioned an example where he did it in order to improve the framerate. You don't have to do it, but if you want an experience with no lag, that's pretty much what you need to do. The 6 Plus does suffer from GUI lag and that's one of the temporary solutions.

I disagree.

 

[cmichaelb]

I advise everyone to read the first post of this thread, and also realise that it doesn't occur in every segment of iOS. Otherwise it would have been lambasted. However, I'm pretty convinced your 5S suffered the same issues I mentioned. All phones share the same hardware, software and it's just a question of who has noticed it at this point.

I don't know, I use my phone very heavily and I was pretty happy with the performance.

 

[RebornProphet]

I truly believe it is planned obsolescence and they are deliberately slowing previous devices with new updates. I've definitely noticed a lot of performance drops going from iOS 7 to iOS 8, and everything I'm about to list is from my experience with a 5S.

- Incredibly amount of lag in weather app, when collapsing and expanding cities. (It was butter smooth in iOS 7).

- Lag in displaying top sites when opening Safari. (It was lightening fast in iOS 7).

- Incredible amount of keyboard lag when typing if messages are coming in. (No such issues in iOS 7, it was buttery smooth and lightening fast).

- Significant lag when pulling down to perform quick reply. (New feature but it still shouldn't lag, you're effectively pulling down a tab, how demanding could this be to a phone like the 5S?)

- Occasional lag when scrolling through large lists with images. (Did not exist in iOS 7).

- Occasional lag when rotating to landscape with some apps. (Did not occur in iOS 7).

There are also some other glitches like apps appearing black in the multitasking panel because the snapshot hasn't loaded properly, though that is probably more of a temporary glitch. The widgets also jump around all over the place when launching NC and quickly scrolling through.

I definitely think this is the most unpolished and buggiest release of iOS I have ever used, much worse than iOS 7. I also think some of these performance drops are far too frequent and obvious to be accidentally overlooked, if that was the case, Apple seriously need to employ better QA and Testing Engineers.


I should also say that two other individuals in my house have a 5S, and we are seeing these exact issues on all three devices. So, claiming these to be isolated issues is ridiculous.

Agree 100% ... glad to see someone else mention these issues on their 5s. The stuttering when expanding/collapsing cities in weather is just ridiculous.

 

[Imory]

I don't know, I use my phone very heavily and I was pretty happy with the performance.

You don't for instance experience the performance issues in the weather app?

Agree 100% ... glad to see someone else mention these issues on their 5s. The stuttering when expanding/collapsing cities in weather is just ridiculous.

https://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

Wouldn't hurt to be vocal about it.

 

[C DM]

Well, iOS 8.1.1 specifically calls out stability and performance improvements for some older devices--they sure wouldn't be wasting time even writing that in (let alone actually doing something about it) if planned obsolescence was in play.

 

[eclipsevv]

Agree 100% ... glad to see someone else mention these issues on their 5s. The stuttering when expanding/collapsing cities in weather is just ridiculous.

I confirm Weather is choppy even on an iPhone 6, but I fail to see how this can be an IOS 8 problem, it's probably just a problem in the Weather app.

I also fail to understand how this could be related to having 1GB of DRAM as some people are implying. I just tested my iPhone with more than 10 apps open (including weather), and I still have 130MB inactive mem + 350MB free ram.

That means it would run almost the same in 512MB! 1GB or 2GB would not make any difference.

 

[Imory]

Well, iOS 8.1.1 specifically calls out stability and performance improvements for some older devices--they sure wouldn't be wasting time even writing that in (let alone actually doing something about it) if planned obsolescence was in play.

It has been explained earlier in this thread that planned obsolescence could just simply be ignoring the issues we see in previous devices and not specifically implementing code that would slow down devices. 8.1.1 was apparently made to improve the usage of 4S and iPad 2, but I see no difference on the 5S and 6 (which they never mentioned regarding the update).

I confirm Weather is choppy even on an iPhone 6, but I fail to see how this can be an IOS 8 problem, it's probably just a problem in the Weather app.

I also fail to understand how this could be related to having 1GB of DRAM as some people are implying. I just tested my iPhone with more than 10 apps open (including weather), and I still have 130MB inactive mem + 350MB free ram.

That means it would run almost the same in 512MB! 1GB or 2GB would not make any difference.

It's an iOS 8 issue seeing as it the choppiness happens in other places as well. The weather app is easy to recreate and see.

Well the lack of RAM is a prominent issue which has been confirmed and covered by respected reviewers and pretty evident examples of people using their devices. Keeping more than 3-4 tabs in Safari without reloading is a rarity and there are examples where most apps get terminated if you switch between 3-4 apps.

2 GB made a significant difference for the iPad Air 2 while the 6 and 6 Plus suffers the same fate of the 5S. 64-bit has a larger memory footprint and 1 GB is simply not enough to achieve the results that people here have been asking about.

I can't really comment on what app you use the see the amount of available memory, but iOS has a very aggressive memory management.

 

[eclipsevv]

I can't really comment on what app you use the see the amount of available memory, but iOS has a very aggressive memory management.

I've tried several apps with similar results, I'm currently using mostly SystemMonitor.

I've read all the reviews, but I'm not sure they are really correct: unless I'm starting a 3D game, I've never seen the iPhone 6 using more than 700MB RAM.

 

[C DM]

It has been explained earlier in this thread that planned obsolescence could just simply be ignoring the issues we see in previous devices and not specifically implementing code that would slow down devices. 8.1.1 was apparently made to improve the usage of 4S and iPad 2, but I see no difference on the 5S and 6 (which they never mentioned regarding the update).



It's an iOS 8 issue seeing as it the choppiness happens in other places as well. The weather app is easy to recreate and see.

Well the lack of RAM is a prominent issue which has been confirmed and covered by respected reviewers and pretty evident examples of people using their devices. Keeping more than 3-4 tabs in Safari without reloading is a rarity and there are examples where most apps get terminated if you switch between 3-4 apps.

2 GB made a significant difference for the iPad Air 2 while the 6 and 6 Plus suffers the same fate of the 5S. 64-bit has a larger memory footprint and 1 GB is simply not enough to achieve the results that people here have been asking about.

I can't really comment on what app you use the see the amount of available memory, but iOS has a very aggressive memory management.

So earlier devices weren't ignored it seems. And just because the differences might be more subtle on somewhat newer devices or that not everyone would notice them (or some people would still have issues with them--as is the case for pretty much any update since the begging) doesn't mean that things weren't fixed and improved for them in various places.

 

[Imory]

So earlier devices weren't ignored it seems. And just because the differences might be more subtle on somewhat newer devices or that not everyone would notice them (or some people would still have issues with them--as is the case for pretty much any update since the begging) doesn't mean that things weren't fixed and improved for them in various places.

Well what really matters is the user experience and so far there's no difference on the 5S or 6 for me. I obviously like the fact that this update might have improved the fluidity and usage for the iPad 2 and iPhone 4S, but I see no difference as of yet.

Just going to have to play the waiting game, even though they're still at fault for releasing an unpolished OS.

 

[eclipsevv]

This is what I'm seeing with 18 open apps (I think I've not closed any app since boot 2 days ago).

The system is essentially running in 512MB (and that is not a surprise, since IOS8 has to run in the 512MB equipped iPhone 4S). 1GB, 2GB or 4GB would not change anything at all.

 

[Imory]

This is what I'm seeing with 18 open apps (I think I've not closed any app since boot 2 days ago).

The system is essentially running in 512MB (and that is not a surprise, since IOS8 has to run in the 512MB equipped iPhone 4S). 1GB, 2GB or 4GB would not change anything at all.

View attachment 514490

Those apps aren't "open" though. They're sort of frozen and usually restarted. Actual active apps are somewhere between 3-4, while others get terminated to free up space.

Your app doesn't display the way iOS handles the memory. More RAM will change it and it already has. Look up Anandtechs (probably the most respected tech reviewers) review of the iPad Air 2.

Make no mistake, I'm not saying you're lying or that the app necessarily is, but it's not really painting the picture correctly.

 

[C DM]

Well what really matters is the user experience and so far there's no difference on the 5S or 6 for me. I obviously like the fact that this update might have improved the fluidity and usage for the iPad 2 and iPhone 4S, but I see no difference as of yet.

Just going to have to play the waiting game, even though they're still at fault for releasing an unpolished OS.

Or what you might be seeing are some issues that not necessarily everyone has. Just like there are many that exist for all kinds of things that some people experience for all kinds of reasons, but they aren't anything specifically inherent or widespread necessarily.

 

[eclipsevv]

Your app doesn't display the way iOS handles the memory. More RAM will change it and it already has. Look up Anandtechs (probably the most respected tech reviewers) review of the iPad Air 2.

I have to disagree. As in OS X, the Darwin kernel provides those stats; the app I'm using (and all other similar system monitor apps) just provide the same numbers coming from the kernel. Just download one and see for yourself.

This article is quite clear on Darwin memory management:
http://www.macyourself.com/2010/02/17/what-is-free-wired-active-and-inactive-system-memory-ram/

Of course having 2GB is more future proof... but currently IOS is not even using 1GB in most situations. As a guideline, in OS X you should consider upgrading RAM when the PageOut/PageIn ratio is higher than 10% (and that's for a multitasking OS!); I'm at 3% in the stats I posted.

 

[Imory]

I have to disagree. As in OS X, the Darwin kernel provides those stats; the app I'm using (and all other similar system monitor apps) just provide the same numbers. Just download one and see for yourself.

This article is quite clear on Darwin memory management:
http://www.macyourself.com/2010/02/17/what-is-free-wired-active-and-inactive-system-memory-ram/

Of course having 2GB is more future proof... but currently IOS is not even using 1GB in most situations. As a guideline, in OS X you should consider upgrading RAM when the PageOut/PageIn ratio is higher than 10%; I'm at 3% in the stats I posted.

That's interesting. Can't really wrap my head around it though.

It doesn't make much sense then why we still have Safari tab reloads of just having 3-4 tabs open. It's a very common issue which has been significantly improved on the Air 2 which has 2 GB of RAM. All devices run iOS 8, but Air 2 is the only one being able so far to maintain more tabs. As far as I know, Safari on the first Air and all the phones running iOS 8 still suffer from tabs reloading.

Anandtech wrote this regarding iPad Air and the amount of crashes related to RAM.

Memory Size & The Impact of 64-bit Applications
The iPad Air, like the iPhone 5s, ships with 1GB of LPDDR3 memory. Apple frowns upon dissection of review samples but I think it’s a safe bet that we’re not talking about a PoP (Package-on-Package) configuration but rather discrete, external DRAM here. It’s also probably a safe bet that even the iPad mini with Retina Display will ship with 1GB of memory as well.

Something I didn’t have time to address in my iPhone 5s review was the impact of 64-bit applications on memory usage. I actually ran some tests after the 5s review hit but never got the chance to share the data, so I figured now is as good a time as any to do just that.

Unlike traditional desktop OSes, iOS doesn’t support paging to disk (or in this case, NAND). Application data can either reside in memory or the associated process is terminated and has to be reloaded the next time you request it. It’s a decision likely made to both maintain user experience and limit the number of program/erase cycles on the internal NAND.

The good news is that iOS was architected to run on as little hardware as possible and as a result tends to be quite memory efficient. There are also power implications of going to larger memories. The combination of these two things has kept Apple on the conservative side of increasing memory capacity on many iDevices.

The move to a 64-bit platform however does complicate things a bit. Moving to a larger memory address space increases the size of pointers, which in turn can increase the footprint of 64-bit applications compared to their 32-bit counterparts. So although there’s clearly a performance uplift from app developers recompiling in 64-bit mode (more registers, access to new instructions), there’s also an associated memory footprint penalty. Since the iPad Air and iPhone 5s don’t feature a corresponding increase in memory capacity, I wondered if this might be a problem going forward.

To find out I monitored total platform memory usage in a couple of scenarios. Before measuring I always manually quit all open apps and performed a hard reset on the device. Note that the data below is reporting both clean and dirty memory, so it’s possible that some of the memory space could be recovered in the event that another process needed it. I hoped to minimize the impact by always working on a cleanly reset platform and only testing one app at a time.

I looked at memory usage under the following scenarios:

1) A clean boot with no additional apps open
2) Running Mobile Safari with 4 tabs open (two AnandTech.com tabs, two Apple.com tabs, all showing the same content)
3) Infinity Blade 3 (64-bit enabled) sitting at the very first scene once you start the game
4) iOS Maps in hybrid view with 3D mode enabled, with a WiFi assisted GPS lock on my physical location
5) Google Maps in the same view, under the same conditions. I threw in this one to have a 32-bit app reference point.

In general you’re looking at a 20 - 30% increase in memory footprint when dealing with an all 64-bit environment. At worst, the device’s total memory usage never exceeded 60% of what ships with the platform but these are admittedly fairly light use cases. With more apps open, including some doing work in the background, I do see relatively aggressive eviction of apps from memory. The most visible case is when Safari tabs have to be reloaded upon switching to them. Applications being evicted from memory don’t tend to be a huge problem since the A7 can reload them quickly.

The tricky part is you don’t really need all that much more memory. Unfortunately as with any dual-channel memory architecture, you’re fairly limited in how you can increase memory capacity and still get peak performance. Apple’s only move here would be to go to 2GB, which understandably comes with both power and financial costs. The former is a bigger concern for the iPhone 5s, but on the iPad Air I would’ve expected a transition sooner rather than later.

Although things seem to have improved with iOS 7.0.3, the 64-bit builds of the OS still seem to run into stability issues more frequently than their 32-bit counterparts. I still see low memory errors associated with any crashes. It could just be that the move to 64-bit applications (and associated memory pressure) is putting more stress on iOS’ memory management routines, which in turn exposes some weaknesses. The iPad Air crashed a couple of times on me (3 times total during the past week), but no where near as much as earlier devices running iOS 7.0.1.

Things have improved thanks to software, but the problem still persists. This is a quote from their iPhone 6 review. They mention that six tabs can't be hold consistently in memory.

The other issue has the potential to be far more serious. While iOS' software architecture is more RAM efficient due to manual garbage collection and the use of precompiled binaries, it's quite easy for me to push the phone past the breaking point in Safari. For example, six tabs of common websites for mobile devices cannot consistently be held in memory. If I continuously go through all six tabs, at least one will need to reload.

In my first attempt at running this test, Safari crashed as I tried to go through all tabs constantly to keep them in memory. I didn't notice this behavior in the new Moto X, which can do the same test without issue. Outside of memory intensive use cases though, the iPhone 6 does respectably and I usually don't notice the lack of RAM.

I have to emphasize that this should be a generally unlikely problem, and that the same behavior can be replicated on the iPhone 5s given the same workload. If you did not have issues with out of memory crashes before, there won't be any issues now.

So things weren't really improved since the 5S, which also had a problem of tab reloads in Safari. They mention that it does respectably, which I to a certain extent agree with, but there have been instances where switching between Safari (3-4 tabs), pausing the podcast, the opening up another app, will make the podcast app terminate the podcast. Whether this boils down to the Podcast app made by Apple being terrible (truth to be told it has been) or RAM constraint is something I can't say with 100% certainty, but given most signs and how improved the Air 2 is, while having the same OS as all other devices, it just seems like it could be the reason.

This is the only thing they had to say about the iPad Air 2 regarding RAM. Unfortunately, I would've liked them to elaborate on it.

The multitasking gestures continue to add to the tablet's functionality as well, which can be even quicker than normal multitasking. This is also helped by the use of two gigabytes of RAM, which noticeably reduces the amount of times that applications are kicked out of memory in my experience. As AArch64 can increase memory requirements it seems important for future iPhones and iPads to all ship with at least two gigabytes of RAM.

Doesn't say much, but other sites have been claiming that the 2 GB of RAM offers a much better experience in Safari with more tabs. Here's what Arstechnica had to say about it.

Yet on the iPad Air 2, we could keep scrolling... and scrolling... and scrolling. We managed to load roughly 46 hours' worth of feed content, throughout which we would randomly hit "like," click on new-tab links, or load embedded videos, before Safari crashed. This took about eight minutes of relatively fast scrolling to accomplish.

In another far-from-scientific Safari test, we loaded full sites on 15 tabs on both Air models, then waited a few minutes and flipped back through each tab to see how long it'd take for the iPad to either crash or reload a particular tab. The iPad Air 2 lasted 11 tabs before it had to call back to the server for a reload, while the original iPad Air needed a recall as early as its fifth.

What do you think? They mention it's a far from scientific method though. I don't know, it feels like taking this all into account points to that the RAM has solved some of the issues?

Sorry for the long post!

 

[eclipsevv]

I can extract the following points from Anandtech:

• 64-bit apps and OS use more RAM than 32-bit; that's absolutely correct
• "At worst, the device’s total memory usage never exceeded 60% of what ships with the platform" and "The tricky part is you don’t really need all that much more memory." (Consistent with my findings, 1GB is enough right now).
• "Apple’s only move here would be to go to 2GB, which understandably comes with both power and financial costs" (and that's the main issue! 2GB RAM would need much more battery power, feasible on iPad but not on iPhone)

I don't know if Safari runs differently on the iPad Air 2, but for sure there is still a lot of free memory on current iPhones.

If history repeats, I can see the following:

• IOS 8: designed to run in 512MB (iPhone 4S), has plenty of space in 1GB, 2GB is not really needed.
• IOS 9 and 10: designed to run in 1GB (iPhone 5 will probably be the minimum requirement), will use more RAM in current iPhones, but performance will still be good; in new 2GB devices, there will be a lot of free RAM (as in IOS 8 with iPhone 5 & 6)
• IOS 11: designed to run in 2GB, iPhone 6S will be the minimum requirement.

If that's the case we could expect at least 3 years of acceptable performance with iPhone 6.

 

[NeoX360]

That is very surprising and utterly peculiar. Enjoy it as long as it lasts.

What do you find peculiar? That im not having lag like you in the areas you mentioned? That some devices maybe aren't experiencing the same slow down?

I will say that i did update to 8.1.1 and there is a hint if lag in weather app when i add more than 3 cities in list view, that was not there before. It is not too bad or unusable but it is slight. No lag anywhere else in the app.

 

[RebornProphet]

I confirm Weather is choppy even on an iPhone 6, but I fail to see how this can be an IOS 8 problem, it's probably just a problem in the Weather app.

I also fail to understand how this could be related to having 1GB of DRAM as some people are implying. I just tested my iPhone with more than 10 apps open (including weather), and I still have 130MB inactive mem + 350MB free ram.

That means it would run almost the same in 512MB! 1GB or 2GB would not make any difference.

All I'm saying is that on iOS 7 the expanding/collapsing of cities in Weather was smooth. On iOS 8 it's not. Therefore it's the software. Yes it's the Weather app that is part of iOS 8, thus the blame lies with iOS 8.

I don't give a toss about RAM, I never mentioned RAM. Under identical iOS 7 use scenarios my 5s on iOS 8 has lag in the aforementioned stock weather app.

It's a woeful piece of software.

 

[gno]

All I'm saying is that on iOS 7 the expanding/collapsing of cities in Weather was smooth. On iOS 8 it's not. Therefore it's the software. Yes it's the Weather app that is part of iOS 8, thus the blame lies with iOS 8.

I don't give a toss about RAM, I never mentioned RAM. Under identical iOS 7 use scenarios my 5s on iOS 8 has lag in the aforementioned stock weather app.

It's a woeful piece of software.

I agree 100%! My retina ipad mini and iphone 5s ran perfectly with ios 7.... the only change has been the software and ios 8 is just not up to scratch....

 

[Imory]

I can extract the following points from Anandtech:

• 64-bit apps and OS use more RAM than 32-bit; that's absolutely correct
• "At worst, the device’s total memory usage never exceeded 60% of what ships with the platform" and "The tricky part is you don’t really need all that much more memory." (Consistent with my findings, 1GB is enough right now).
• "Apple’s only move here would be to go to 2GB, which understandably comes with both power and financial costs" (and that's the main issue! 2GB RAM would need much more battery power, feasible on iPad but not on iPhone)

I don't know if Safari runs differently on the iPad Air 2, but for sure there is still a lot of free memory on current iPhones.

If history repeats, I can see the following:

• IOS 8: designed to run in 512MB (iPhone 4S), has plenty of space in 1GB, 2GB is not really needed.
• IOS 9 and 10: designed to run in 1GB (iPhone 5 will probably be the minimum requirement), will use more RAM in current iPhones, but performance will still be good; in new 2GB devices, there will be a lot of free RAM (as in IOS 8 with iPhone 5 & 6)
• IOS 11: designed to run in 2GB, iPhone 6S will be the minimum requirement.

If that's the case we could expect at least 3 years of acceptable performance with iPhone 6.

We don't know how much more battery 2 GB of RAM would actually eat though.

That still doesn't make sense or add up. The iPad Air, 5S, and 6 all have a problem with the Safari tabs all running iOS 8 with 1 GB of RAM, while the iPad Air 2 solves this by running the same OS, where we know it has 2 GB of RAM. I don't believe Apple specifically did something different in terms of coding for the Air 2.

What do you find peculiar? That im not having lag like you in the areas you mentioned? That some devices maybe aren't experiencing the same slow down?

I will say that i did update to 8.1.1 and there is a hint if lag in weather app when i add more than 3 cities in list view, that was not there before. It is not too bad or unusable but it is slight. No lag anywhere else in the app.

Yes, I find it peculiar that seeing as we run the same hardware and software, that some don't experience it while other does. Just strange, that's all.

 

[I7guy]

All I'm saying is that on iOS 7 the expanding/collapsing of cities in Weather was smooth. On iOS 8 it's not. Therefore it's the software. Yes it's the Weather app that is part of iOS 8, thus the blame lies with iOS 8.

I don't give a toss about RAM, I never mentioned RAM. Under identical iOS 7 use scenarios my 5s on iOS 8 has lag in the aforementioned stock weather app.

It's a woeful piece of software.

Can't replicate that odd behavior with the weather app. 8.1.1 smoothed out some rough edges. Good job Apple!

 

[eclipsevv]

We don't know how much more battery 2 GB of RAM would actually eat though.

2GB in the same CPU package (and a different production process) probably not much more, but I'm convinced replicating the same iPad Air 2 architecture (3 discrete chips with doubled bus width) would give a noticeable hit on power efficiency and battery life.

Remember the iPhone has CPU+GPU+DRAM on a single chip (SoC), the iPad Air 2 does not (given the larger battery).

 

[s2mikey]

That's interesting. Can't really wrap my head around it though.

It doesn't make much sense then why we still have Safari tab reloads of just having 3-4 tabs open. It's a very common issue which has been significantly improved on the Air 2 which has 2 GB of RAM. All devices run iOS 8, but Air 2 is the only one being able so far to maintain more tabs. As far as I know, Safari on the first Air and all the phones running iOS 8 still suffer from tabs reloading.

Anandtech wrote this regarding iPad Air and the amount of crashes related to RAM.

Things have improved thanks to software, but the problem still persists. This is a quote from their iPhone 6 review. They mention that six tabs can't be hold consistently in memory.

So things weren't really improved since the 5S, which also had a problem of tab reloads in Safari. They mention that it does respectably, which I to a certain extent agree with, but there have been instances where switching between Safari (3-4 tabs), pausing the podcast, the opening up another app, will make the podcast app terminate the podcast. Whether this boils down to the Podcast app made by Apple being terrible (truth to be told it has been) or RAM constraint is something I can't say with 100% certainty, but given most signs and how improved the Air 2 is, while having the same OS as all other devices, it just seems like it could be the reason.

This is the only thing they had to say about the iPad Air 2 regarding RAM. Unfortunately, I would've liked them to elaborate on it.


Doesn't say much, but other sites have been claiming that the 2 GB of RAM offers a much better experience in Safari with more tabs. Here's what Arstechnica had to say about it.


What do you think? They mention it's a far from scientific method though. I don't know, it feels like taking this all into account points to that the RAM has solved some of the issues?

Sorry for the long post!

The thing is that not everyone has experienced tab reload problems with safari even on our 1GB devices. I believe it has a lot to do with what websites you are visiting, what you're doing on those sites and what else is running on your tablet. There is no doubt that the extra RAM in the Air 2 is welcomed and appreciated but it's not the dn all here. Safari is a pig and that's a lot of the problem, IMO.