iPhone 12 Is iPhone 12 still using PWM OLED?

[Rumours]

The measurements are a little confusing since I don’t think they were taken at the same brightness level. iPhone 12 Pro’s PWM frequency changes significantly at different brightness levels.

It says for the Pro Max that, as soon as the device is dimmed the PWM starts (and is likely always at 238Hz, which is typical of Samsung made OLED displays). I interpret that to mean that at anything but 100% brightness there is PWM used.

My own guess is that at 100% brightness, the pulse drops to 60Hz.

 

[MICHAELSD]

It says for the Pro Max that, as soon as the device is dimmed the PWM starts (and is likely always at 238Hz, which is typical of Samsung made OLED displays). I interpret that to mean that at anything but 100% brightness there is PWM used.

My own guess is that at 100% brightness, the pulse drops to 60Hz.

I took a slo-mo video of the 12 Pro and 12 and I do have to admit that the PWM seems slightly more manageable, especially at higher brightnesses. I didn’t do the same test with the Max for comparison. Anecdotally I noticed little-to-no migraines from the Max when I tried my friend’s phone.

 

[ghanwani]

 

[Mastrociambella]

It says for the Pro Max that, as soon as the device is dimmed the PWM starts (and is likely always at 238Hz, which is typical of Samsung made OLED displays). I interpret that to mean that at anything but 100% brightness there is PWM used.

My own guess is that at 100% brightness, the pulse drops to 60Hz.

Could you point out where it says that it’s always at the same frequency?
I think that’s part of the issue for me (as I have little to none eye discomfort with Samsung devices, latest ones being S10+ and S20+, with the latter having really low PWM frequency apparently), not frequency only but variations in frequency

 

[MICHAELSD]

Could you point out where it says that it’s always at the same frequency?
I think that’s part of the issue for me (as I have little to none eye discomfort with Samsung devices, latest ones being S10+ and S20+, with the latter having really low PWM frequency apparently), not frequency only but variations in frequency

It does state that in Notebookcheck’s review, but I would assume there are variances as there are on iPhone 12 Pro. Sometimes their reviews are subject to getting lost in translation.

 

[JM]

I just purchased an iPhone 11 (non-Pro). That is the latest and greatest available with FaceID and an LCD. I’m going to use that until Apple makes their OLEDs more visually tolerable or changes the display tech. I figure I can realistically get 4-5 years out of it before it becomes too old/slow/obsolete. I’m crossing my fingers that Apple will have something I can upgrade to within that time frame.

The biggest concern with this strategy is the advancement in the cellular technology. LTE is fine right now...but compared to where 5g might be 3-5 years from now...

I'm considering the same thing now. I love the gestures, but not loving the mild headaches I'm getting with the mini

has the 11 been okay even with face of? Thank you!

 

[TDDM]

Hey all,

I created an anonymous Google survey (Thanks to MichaelSD for assisting with some questions ) to help us catalog our issues and potentially identify some kind of pattern or solution. If you have the time, it'd be really helpful if you guys could fill it out. As soon as we have a good amount of responses, I can post the data so we can discuss the results.

I've also cross-posted this in a few other eye strain threads (The XR, X, & MacBook strain ones) to see if there's some kind of common link. If we get enough data, perhaps we could share it with Apple directly?

Apple Eye Strain Survey

This form is designed for Apple users who have specific eye strain issues with iPhones, iPads, and Macs. Some potential causes for this eye strain may be PWM, Temporal Dithering, LCD Inversion, or some other unknown issue. The goal of this survey is to gather data on these issues and potentially...

forms.gle

 

[Mastrociambella]

I’ve recorded slow motion videos of iPhone 12 Pro Max (in carrier store, sorry for the awful quality, language was already set on Asian, but I’m in Italy) and Galaxy S10, it’s not too much noticeable, but I’d say “flashing” is more evident on iPhone.
It is not scientific in any way, I just put the brightness slider slightly below halfway, but I have no luxometer to verify the same levels, but it can give a slight idea (I’m trying to take a video of s20+ and s10, but my iPad Pro video shows less flashing than expected, even though it should be 240fps like s20+ recording)

 

[Corncab44]

Have folks found luck reducing the white point? I turned it all the way down and brightness all the way up and notice less strain/nausea.

Still doesn’t seem like a permanent solution. Have a 12 Pro. Going to try an 11 from the refurb store.

I’m coming from a Galaxy S8, which according to Notebookreview had a frequency of 250 hz, which apparently is lower than the 12 pro. But I only encounter issues with the 12 pro. Dunno.

 

[frito1224]

So I’m hearing a rumor that the iPhone 13 will have a LTPO display, if so will this get rid of PWM?

 

[Dejected]

So I’m hearing a rumor that the iPhone 13 will have a LTPO display, if so will this get rid of PWM?

Can anyone tell us ?

 

[MICHAELSD]

Can anyone tell us ?

FWIW the Galaxy S21 Ultra has a LTPO OLED panel and it still very much has PWM.

When Apple switched to LTPO on the Apple Watch it significantly improved the amplitude and flicker overall. There is hope, I just wouldn’t count on it yet.

 

[QuattroRS6]

I dont think, that Apple will fix this PWM OLED Issue and i think the real cause is Samsung with their OLED Panels. I read it so often in YouTube Comments, on Reddit and in Forums that People had no Problems with Galaxy S8, S9, S10 and since the S21 they had Problems with dizziness and nausea, the same Problems many of my clients had and myself with the 12 Pro.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I dont think, that Apple will fix this PWM OLED Issue and i think the real cause is Samsung with their OLED Panels. I read it so often in YouTube Comments, on Reddit and in Forums that People had no Problems with Galaxy S8, S9, S10 and since the S21 they had Problems with dizziness and nausea, the same Problems many of my clients had and myself with the 12 Pro.

Which industry are you in? I still think this is a more widespread issue than even Apple realizes.

 

[QuattroRS6]

Which industry are you in? I still think this is a more widespread issue than even Apple realizes.

Iam IT-Technican i own a company and we offer Hosted Exchange Solutions and Mobile-Device-Management (MDM) for Business Clients in Europe. And many Clients / Companys buyed the new iPhone 12 Pro, because they always want to own the newest iPhone and bigger Screens for their Business-Apps.

So i saw over 100 iPhone 12 Pro and we had now 52 Tickets from Clients who told us about dizziness, nausea and dry eyes or pain in the eyes which they didnt have with their old iPhone 11 Pro. All People asked us if there is a "magic setting" to prevent this problems or if it is possible, that we setup the phone wrong. So i recommend them always to send their phones back and use the good old iPhone 11 Pro again, because i dont know any solution.

On the other side we have a few clients with the Galaxy S21 and they told me the same Problems, so i seached in the web and found many People with the same Problems, also in the official Samsung Forums.

I contacted Apple because of the Problem, but i didnt get a answer, my clients called the Hotline and they also said, they should send the phone back, they never heard about this problem.

As an IT technician, I always want the latest iPhones, so it made me very sad that I can't handle the iPhone 12 Pro because of PWM. And I also fear that as long as Samsung OLED panels are installed in the iPhone 13 Pro, I will not be able to tolerate that either.

 

[tomekwsrod]

That's bad. I'm affected by this. After short time of staring at such screens I get a headache and slight unusual vision.

 

[MICHAELSD]

What’s puzzled me is that the Apple Watch with its OLED display has been fine for me for years and there have been practically no headache complaints, especially with the latest Series Watches which have such a low amplitude there’s virtually no flicker.

If they could just replicate that PWM implementation on iPhone it would probably solve all of these issues. Maybe with the LTPO panel they’ll use the same PWM that they’re using on Apple Watch Series 4-6.

 

[QuattroRS6]

I filmed all my iPhones X, XS, 11 Pro and all my Galaxy S8, S9, S10 (with all these OLED Display i have no Problems) with a High-Speed-Cam and compared it with my 12 Pro and the S21. What i noticed is, all Devices i can use without any Problems the "scrolling bars" i see in the video from the PWM are wandering from the bottom to the top and all Devices where i get dizziness and nausea like the 12 Pro and S21 the scolling bars in the Video are going from the top to the bottom.

 

[noobinator]

Just wanted to give a data point. Not sure if it means anything or not but I bought a 12 Pro at launch and had horrible headaches, dizziness, nausea, etc. for 3 months before I sold it. Used a Pixel 5 and Galaxy 21 Ultra with no issues for a month or two. Bought another 12 Pro (exact same configuration) as before about a 6 weeks ago and have had ZERO issues with PWM. Perhaps it's in my head, but the 2nd one caused me no harm but the first one messed me up bad. Could have been coincidental with something else going on when I owned the first 12 Pro, but who knows.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Just wanted to give a data point. Not sure if it means anything or not but I bought a 12 Pro at launch and had horrible headaches, dizziness, nausea, etc. for 3 months before I sold it. Used a Pixel 5 and Galaxy 21 Ultra with no issues for a month or two. Bought another 12 Pro (exact same configuration) as before about a 6 weeks ago and have had ZERO issues with PWM. Perhaps it's in my head, but the 2nd one caused me no harm but the first one messed me up bad. Could have been coincidental with something else going on when I owned the first 12 Pro, but who knows.

I’ve been wondering about this as well because I notice the PWM on store demos seem to vary as well. I also stared at my friend’s iPhone 12 Pro Max for a minute recently and experienced no issues.

Nonetheless the likelihood of a software update silently improving the PWM or there being variance between units is unlikely at best.

 

[tonybarnaby]

What’s puzzled me is that the Apple Watch with its OLED display has been fine for me for years and there have been practically no headache complaints, especially with the latest Series Watches which have such a low amplitude there’s virtually no flicker.

If they could just replicate that PWM implementation on iPhone it would probably solve all of these issues. Maybe with the LTPO panel they’ll use the same PWM that they’re using on Apple Watch Series 4-6.

I don’t think you can compare a watch to a phone. The watch is small, plus how long do you look at it straight? A minute or so?

 

[MICHAELSD]

I don’t think you can compare a watch to a phone. The watch is small, plus how long do you look at it straight? A minute or so?

I don’t think size is the main consideration. In theory I could stare at it for minutes without a hint of a migraine or headache, whereas with an OLED iPhone it’s entirely possible for me to get both immediately even if I were to stare at a notification for a second.

 

[tonybarnaby]

I don’t think size is the main consideration. In theory I could stare at it for minutes without a hint of a migraine or headache, whereas with an OLED iPhone it’s entirely possible for me to get both immediately even if I were to stare at a notification for a second.

It would probably also depend on what the pwm number is. I’d assume the watch is way higher than a phone.

 

[MICHAELSD]

It would probably also depend on what the pwm number is. I’d assume the watch is way higher than a phone.

60Hz, but the amplitude is so low it’s almost as if it doesn’t flicker at all.

If you recall the PWM charts for iPhone, Apple Watch is basically a flat line.

 

[tonybarnaby]

Now I’m losing my mind. I never owned an iPhone 8, but didn’t Apple make a battery case for it? Everything I read says there is no iPhone 8 battery case, but I could swear there was, and that only one of the Apple battery cases works for the se2.

Or maybe I’m thinking about how the 7 case works but the 6s case doesn’t.