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MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
It's got a few issues, annoying ones that Apple would have noticed in Alpha one!

The dock
If like me you have the dock on the bottom of the screen, and its set to hidden, and you use 2 or more displays, when you go to view the dock on another display, it only works randomly. I find sometimes I have to click on the desktop, then 'bounce' the cursor off of the bottom of the screen to get it to show, and even then it doesn't always show

I agree the dock system sucks. The side-mounted docks don't migrate at all. It's like they forgot about them completely. They also made the side-mounted docks too bright (from dark black) where a medium shade would have done better. A simple solution for the former problem would be to simply have a dock on each display like the menu bar. It's the obvious solution and I find it strange that Apple couldn't manage such a basic concept on their own.

Heat
My 2012 rMBP is running a lot hotter with a fresh installation of Mavericks - I thought it was down to Spotlight indexing external drivers (which it seemed to ALWAYS do) so I disabled it, but the computer still gets way hotter than Mountain Lion made it.

I think ALL versions of OSX run too hot by default. Apple favors silence over safety. Fortunately, Macs Fan Control is pretty awesome and can be configured to ramp up fans at range of temperatures tied to the sensor of your choice or set to a constant speed or it can let Apple's settings handle it (or another fan program running like Lubbock's fan control) while monitoring it on the menu bar. Thus, I have no Mavericks fan issues because I don't leave it up to Apple to keep my machine cool. When I use Handbrake to encode a movie, my machine ramps up to maximum fan pretty quickly now.

Kernel Panics
Never had one with Mountain Lion. I've had 3 so far with Mavericks. I'm going to put that down to either my USB 3.0 hub or my USB 3.0 => Ethernet adaptor - neither have custom firmware installed however so cant be 100% sure its them that caused it.

I used to get these all the time with Tiger and Leopard on my PowerMac. I also got them on my MBP running Leopard. Snow Leopard onward seemed much more stable, although I skipped Lion entirely due to poor reviews. I've never had a single kernel panic with Mountain Lion or Mavericks yet or a major crash of ANY kind for that matter (i.e. Mavericks is the most stable 1.0 release I've ever used; Mountain Lion was stable here by 10.8.2 or perhaps 10.8.3, but 10.8 and 10.8.1 had some issues), though so it may be something specific to your machine or setup. Have you noticed any pattern to it? What is causing the kernel panic according to the log?

Still piss poor multi-monitor support
Whilst multi-monitor support is better, it still feels like it's been intentionally limited to give them something to release in the next update. Dragging windows from one display to another is a pain, as windows don't scale to fit the screen (so dragging a 1800px wide browser window onto a 1440px laptop screen results in it being clipped, and it doesn't show the overlapping bit on the other display). This combined with the dock issue means OS X is still pretty crap at multi-screen support when you're powering through work trying to get stuff done.

I honestly think other than the dock issue, this is minor quibbling and the use of "piss-poor" is 100% posturing, IMO as I don't see where Windows or Linux is now that much better and both had their own issues over the years. Other than the dock, I think the multi-monitor support is now quite usable and hardly "piss-poor" anymore. I personally wouldn't expect an OS to resize my windows for me automatically. If it did, people would complain that OSX is changing their desired window sizes or something. You can't really win on something like that except perhaps to offer a preference setting for the behavior. Of course, it's preferable to have multiple monitors that are the same size, but not always practical. Since Mountain Lion it's considerably easier/faster to resize a window since you can now drag any edge. My complaints about multiple monitor support are strictly related to the dock (or rather the lack thereof when it comes to the side-docks). Some older programs don't handle the second menu bar correctly, but then they need updated to proper screen handling anyway.

I hope they can fix these issues. OS X updates have been pretty lacklustre since Snow Leopard, with really trivial things being touted as major features.

I disagree 100%. Snow Leopard's introduction SUCKED, IMO, particularly in that it was a bunch of minor changes that served mostly to DUMP PowerPC support entirely (and that was the only efficiency increase I saw seeing that Snow Leopard ran slower in my XBench tests than Leopard and it was supposed to be an efficiency upgrade, not a feature boon and what new features it did add like OpenCL don't get much use even today). More than anything, it lead to a lot of software no longer being supported by OSX for PPC in a very short amount of time. Otherwise, most of the changes could have easily been added to Leopard. Of course, I could say the same thing about Mavericks onto Mountain Lion. The cycles are awfully short now with this yearly update mantra. But I suppose if they are free, it doesn't really matter whether they're called major or minor updates.

I'd rather they refine the OS more as it's starting to get to the point where it feels a bit bloated again. We need another Snow Leopard type of release really.

I think Leopard was BY FAR, the biggest noticeable "bloat" increase of any OSX version ever. It was considerably slower than Tiger, especially on PowerPC systems whereas ALL previous versions of OSX felt faster and more streamlined as time went on. If anything, Mountain Lion was impressive that it was still FAST on a machine designed for Leopard and frankly, I notice no noticeable slower feel on my 2008 machine than with Snow Leopard or Mountain Lion.

I do think Apple could put some effort into getting OpenGL up to the latest versions so that DirectX conversions could have parity features for the GPU without slowdowns caused by software rendering of those missing features, etc. And we all know Apple could keep their video drivers up-to-date and optimized a LOT better (one of the major causes of games being slower in OSX than Windows on the same machine beyond outdated OpenGL calls).

All this being said, I have noticed battery improvements, but AppNap should not be kicking in when you're plugged in. I've had to disable it on a bunch of apps as I'd get random split-second beachballs.

Wake on Internet Activity never worked right on my late 2012 Mac Mini with Mountain Lion, but DOES work right in Mavericks. They've also added Power Nap support for email checking, etc. while in sleep for this machine (wasn't supported in Mountain Lion). I have mouse freeze bug when waking for sleep on this particularly machine for reasons unknown (plug/unplug to correct), but for the most part, things have improved.
 

phobos

macrumors 6502
Feb 25, 2008
256
117
The major complaint for me is how multitasking works now.

It seems that before the system could move around resources much faster when they were needed.
For example I'm using Cinema every day. Before when I was rendering I could use all other apps without any issues at all.
Now when the system is rendering everything else crawls.

For example opening a file in Quicktime and playing it back will just playback a couple of frames every other second.

Going to Photoshop and trying to draw with a Wacom tablet you will witness the biggest delay in the world!

Going to youtube and playing back a file will also result in skipped frames.

And the list goes on and on.
I was worried when I heard they changed the way multitasking works and it seems my worries came true.

Anyone else witnessed this behaviour? Any tricks to get a similar performance as it was before?
 

chris2kari

macrumors newbie
Mar 25, 2013
11
0
Top 5 Questions:

1) Is making my Mac run harder for certain programs...LightRoom,Photoshop,Final Cut Pro & even Preview.
Is yours?

2) I see & feel no difference in performance...Why did I update?

3) Have you upgrade to OS X Mavericks?

4) Why did you upgrade?

5) Thanks? <<<Not really a question

Or yea one more thing..There's a bug in FINDER! Can't really explain what it is but every time I remove something to trash or to another folder. It still shows it being there until I close the FINDER & reopen it.


My Story:

I use my Mac a lot for Photography & Edits in Photoshop..Heavy in FCP too!
For some reason when opening RAW files..Let me just say,
LAG is not it's best suite for this Mac!

Before it use to open right up..Multi able images too, I use to be able to Open up 20-30 files in one shot and my Mac use to open them and load them up in a split of a second. And don't get me started on Photoshop!

When using Photoshop "Heavy" my processor would never climb to a degree in which I would have to manually adjust my fans. Seems to me, I have to do this now with the "New Maverick"

I say...It feels like Maverick is making my Mac run harder then before & I don't like it.

Is there any solution to fixing the LAG when viewing a RAW image when opening it with Preview? Which I do use it often...sometimes you want to take a look at the image before Importing it to Lightroom. you feel me Cuzzz?

Thanks!

P.S I think I might go back to OS X Mountain Lion. :D

Long time Mac user here.
Mavericks is the worst release in a very long time. A lot of bugs.. Major bugs. Did they even test this? Really hanging out for 10.9.1 because I'm going to have to go back to 10.8.5 or even 10.6.8 soon to regain a good system if they don't hurry up.

Chris
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
When using Photoshop "Heavy" my processor would never climb to a degree in which I would have to manually adjust my fans. Seems to me, I have to do this now with the "New Maverick"

Why would you need to manually change the fans? Install Macs Fan Control (or Lobotomo's Fan Control works on most models) and set a temperature curve for automatic control and never have to touch fan control ever again.

Frankly, I don't know why SMC Fan Control is so popular. It's only good for setting a minimum speed. You have to adjust manually everything as the machine heats up. I tossed it to the curb. Macs Fan Control has three options including full manual, full system automatic (which lets OSX do it and/or another fan control program like Lobotomo handle the curve while it reports the speeds for you in the menu bar) or full automatic with Macs Fan Control handling the fan curves which you can define.

I say...It feels like Maverick is making my Mac run harder then before & I don't like it.

I don't notice any difference here offhand in terms of CPU usage. I use Handbrake to encode videos and my browser, etc. is still fully usable while it's encoding as before.
 

aggri1

macrumors 6502
Jul 21, 2010
256
4
My experience with Mavericks has been unpleasant also. Lots and lots of little annoying bugs, and abysmal performance. Clicking the menu bar shouldn't ever result in a noticable delay, and yet quite often I have to wait a second or two for the menu to show. Even System 7 on an SE30 didn't feel this laggy. And Sys' Pref's taking almost 10 seconds to open, that's absurd (in fact, all applications seem to take ages to open, now).

These kind of problems really ruin the upgrade experience, regardless of why they occur.
 

Moonloop

macrumors member
Mar 4, 2012
70
8
Ireland
Mavericks is really a beta

Absolutely killed my 2.6 2012 Mac Mini 16gb RAM . It won't stay on my network , says application memory has run out most of the time and paused most if not all running apps ( iTunes , Tune-Up , Plex Server , App Store , Activity Monitor )

Don't know whether to roll back and reinstall Mavericks or hope the cure is coming ...

~M~
 

Irishman

macrumors 68040
Nov 2, 2006
3,392
843
Top 5 Questions:

1) Is making my Mac run harder for certain programs...LightRoom,Photoshop,Final Cut Pro & even Preview.
Is yours?

2) I see & feel no difference in performance...Why did I update?

3) Have you upgrade to OS X Mavericks?

4) Why did you upgrade?

5) Thanks? <<<Not really a question

Or yea one more thing..There's a bug in FINDER! Can't really explain what it is but every time I remove something to trash or to another folder. It still shows it being there until I close the FINDER & reopen it.


My Story:

I use my Mac a lot for Photography & Edits in Photoshop..Heavy in FCP too!
For some reason when opening RAW files..Let me just say,
LAG is not it's best suite for this Mac!

Before it use to open right up..Multi able images too, I use to be able to Open up 20-30 files in one shot and my Mac use to open them and load them up in a split of a second. And don't get me started on Photoshop!

When using Photoshop "Heavy" my processor would never climb to a degree in which I would have to manually adjust my fans. Seems to me, I have to do this now with the "New Maverick"

I say...It feels like Maverick is making my Mac run harder then before & I don't like it.

Is there any solution to fixing the LAG when viewing a RAW image when opening it with Preview? Which I do use it often...sometimes you want to take a look at the image before Importing it to Lightroom. you feel me Cuzzz?

Thanks!

P.S I think I might go back to OS X Mountain Lion. :D

It's just you. Mavericks is the best OS X iteration I've played with, and I've been around since 10.1.5.
 

Rivvvers

macrumors regular
Jun 11, 2012
114
121
The Shire
Out of the 7 different machines I have installed mavericks fresh on including a few hackintoshs, its very quick, so I have no idea what' you guys are doing wrong
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
Absolutely killed my 2.6 2012 Mac Mini 16gb RAM . It won't stay on my network , says application memory has run out most of the time and paused most if not all running apps ( iTunes , Tune-Up , Plex Server , App Store , Activity Monitor )

Don't know whether to roll back and reinstall Mavericks or hope the cure is coming ...

~M~

Mine is only a 2.4 2012 Mini with 8GB and it runs like a demon out of hell with Mavericks. You must have junked up your Windows 8 registry since you clearly aren't running the same OS I'm running. ;)

My experience in two words: Slow, buggy.

Safari is crap. Finder is way too slow.

Safari IS crap and has ALWAYS BEEN crap. Stay away from Chrome too. It's Google branded crap and spyware to boot. Use Firefox. That's a real browser.

Finder is the same speed it's always been. All this "snappier and snappier" crap has finally gone to people's heads where they now think the OS is running slower when it's been the same speed +/- a couple of milliseconds all along that's the gospel truth. Snappy should be a name for peanut brittle not something you say when a new version of a crappy browser comes out. The only thing that makes Finder super slow is when a hard drive is sleeping. Instead of bringing up the drives that ARE available with a busy icon next to the ones that aren't awake yet or are sleeping (really they shouldn't be waked unless you click on that drive or a folder in it), they decided to make Finder WAIT while the OS wakes the drives and bring up the spinning beach ball of death to keep you entertained in the mean time. That's the only time Finder is slow here short of the first 30 minutes or so after first putting Mavericks on the machine when it was busy optimizing and updating Spotlight.

As for Finder's other ancient limitations, get XtraFinder. It makes the Finder usable in a way that it should have been for the past decade with dual-pane mode. Plus it restores color to a world that almost went black and white thanks to Mr. Black Turtleneck's color blind taste (hello original Macintosh for that matter when the Apple II was in color for goodness sake so I shouldn't have been shocked when Jobs tried to make iTunes and the Finder and everything else (check out that B&W background art Apple provides) black and white all over again). Frankly, I'm surprised the iPhone wasn't totally in Black & White for that matter (although Johnny Ives has gone ridiculously far in the Land of Oz now with too much overlapping color where Mavericks is still half in Kansas. I guess they didn't have time to do something difficult like turn color back on in the Finder.... :rolleyes:).
 

laurihoefs

macrumors 6502a
Mar 1, 2013
792
23
I'm running a 2012 base model rMBP, and mostly run Lightroom 5 and Photoshop CC on it. I have not had any notable issues since Mavericks DP3, which fixed the occasional crash when waking from sleep.

1) Is making my Mac run harder for certain programs...LightRoom,Photoshop,Final Cut Pro & even Preview.
Is yours?
Not a huge change there, but slight improvement in general performance, especially with scaled display modes.

I haven't had Lr or Ps crash once since Mavericks DP2, in Mountain Lion I had some stability issues.

Temperatures stay low, and I have to mage a huge mass export from Lr, or something similar, to get the temperatures rising and fans running.

2) I see & feel no difference in performance...Why did I update?
I see a some improvement in battery life. Not much in heavy use, with Mountain Lion it used to be something like 4hrs working with photoshop, now I get 4:10. With light workloads (taking notes with text editor and Safari running) the difference is substantial though. In Mountain Lion I barely managed to get a maximum of 10hrs of battery life at max, with Mavericks I've reached 12hrs!

3) Have you upgrade to OS X Mavericks?
Yes, since DP2.

4) Why did you upgrade?
Why not? Better support for multiple displays, improved Calendar.app, iCloud Keychain, Finder tabs and improved battery life were the most important reasons I guess.
 

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MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
I did notice a strange bug today. If I start mail up and then I move the desktops around so that the one with Mail on it is on say Desktop2 instead of Desktop1 and then I quit and re-start mail or even just close its window and bring it back up, it will ALWAYS go to Desktop2 no matter what. I can move it back to Desktop1 (the new one), but when I close its window or quit the program and restart, it always goes to Desktop2 again. Talk about ANNOYING. I guess you can't shuffle your desktop order without Mail going with it. At the time, I just wanted Desktop1 to have Desktop2's background picture and vice-versa, but the only way to get Mail back to Desktop1 was to put Desktop2 back in place as Desktop1 and then change the background screens again. No other Apps have this behavior so I chalk it up to another bug in Mail for Mavericks.
 

saturnotaku

macrumors 68000
Mar 4, 2013
1,978
97
I gave Mavericks another chance but will be reverting back to 10.8.5 once I've returned from the holidays. I've not experienced the beachballs others have, but the slow Finder and broken Boot Camp have turned me off once and for all. The latter issue is the most frustrating in that sometimes Windows simply refuses to boot. I thought it was an issue with Windows 8/8.1, but I reinstalled 7 this morning, and it did the same thing. The only change to my machine was Mavericks. No problems whatsoever with Mountain Lion. The maximum of 5% performance improvement in my OS X games is not worth this hassle. Will be waiting until at least 10.9.2, maybe even 10.10.1 if I don't see consistent reports of problems being solved.
 

irnchriz

macrumors 65816
May 2, 2005
1,034
2
Scotland
Running Mavs on 4 macs, 2009 27" iMac 2.66 i5 8gb ram, 2011 13"MacBook Pro 8Gb ram, 2012 15" MacBook Pro 2.3 i7 16GB ram, Mac mini server 2.3 i7.

Runs super fast on everything, no crashes, overheating etc. all done as fresh installs. Did the server first then used net install for everything else. All run iTunes Match, Adobe CC, 4x exchange accounts and 1 imap account (not Gmail, shudder).

I don't run anything to enhance finder, only run Adblock and donot track safari addons. No fan control software etc

All 4 bits of kit work fine if they didn't I would be back on ml in a heartbeat as I have heavy workflows these days and can't afford any downtime.
 

SarcasticJoe

macrumors 6502a
Nov 5, 2013
607
221
Finland
Can't say I've seen any kind of slowdown since I installed it the day it came out, thou I wouldn't consider it completely infeasible that Timer Coalescing (the grouping of instructions to let the CPU go into "sleep" more often on low workloads) might lead to some performance loss if activated when it shouldn't.

I did expect a good size OpenGL performance boost on my early 2011 15" MBP as my old 2007 Macbook Pro got a good one, but that didn't seem to materialize in CineBench at least. Another thing that annoys me is how badly a second monitor now goes with Spaces. I've decoupled it from the built in one (so it's just one space while I hop back and forth between spaces with the built in one) as it didn't work properly and genuinely hope they fix it in 10.9.1.

I genuinely wonder what the idea behind the update going and deleting my install of XCode and all of my extensions was. Re-downloading and installing everything took me over an hour, so it wasn't a major inconvenience but one I've still got issues understanding why it had to happen specially when there are still people with connections that have download caps.

Thou it isn't all bad, my machine gained about an hour and a half of batterylife, Finder tabs are a nice addition, tags are pretty handy and support for OpenGL 4 is a welcome, albeit late, addition.

In other words: Not perfect, but hey, they do say "Never look a gift horse in the mouth".
 

ken22

macrumors newbie
Jul 22, 2002
2
0
Mavericks

"I'm a power user so I know."

You're certainly not lacking confidence. Glad there is at least one person who is an expert...self proclaimed or not.
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
Another thing that annoys me is how badly a second monitor now goes with Spaces. I've decoupled it from the built in one (so it's just one space while I hop back and forth between spaces with the built in one) as it didn't work properly and genuinely hope they fix it in 10.9.1.

Really? I like the default a lot better now. I can have either monitor on its own desktop and switch desktops for that monitor independently without changing the one on the other monitor with it (which is what happens when you go back to the Mountain Lion style spaces). It's no big deal to move a window to the other monitor (just drag it there) so I don't know what you mean by how badly it goes with Spaces. My only complaint is that each monitor should have its own dock rather than migrating the dock, which sadly only works with the bottom-located dock (which I don't use because it wastes precious vertical space and monitors are wider than they are tall these days). If they would make those changes and several older programs would update their full screen behavior to work with the new menu bars properly, I'd be thrilled and declare OSX multiple monitor support at least equivalent (if not better with spaces) than Windows.
 

SlCKB0Y

macrumors 68040
Feb 25, 2012
3,426
555
Sydney, Australia
I wonder how many people whining here have tried a clean install?

Ive got Mavericks running on three different systems:

2013 MBA
Late 2011 Macbook Pro
2008 iMac

I runs fantastically on each of these and is the fastest release since Snow Leopard.

In fact, I've been running Mavericks on my Macbook Pro since DP2 and it's been more stable throughout that whole time than the GM of Mountain Lion was.

I would be willing to bet a good proportion of the people here could resolve their issue by doing a clean install and should have tried this before running their mouth online.
 

flopticalcube

macrumors G4
I wonder how many people whining here have tried a clean install?

Ive got Mavericks running on three different systems:

2013 MBA
Late 2011 Macbook Pro
2008 iMac

I runs fantastically on each of these and is the fastest release since Snow Leopard.

In fact, I've been running Mavericks on my Macbook Pro since DP2 and it's been more stable throughout that whole time than the GM of Mountain Lion was.

I would be willing to bet a good proportion of the people here could resolve their issue by doing a clean install and should have tried this before running their mouth online.

If you had read the thread, you probably would have found many have done clean installs. Just because you didn't get issues does not mean others have not had theirs.

I did an upgrade (on top of an upgrade) and have had very few problems but I would not be so quick to label others "whiners" simply because their experience was different from mine even if they also did an upgrade.
 

SlCKB0Y

macrumors 68040
Feb 25, 2012
3,426
555
Sydney, Australia
If you had read the thread, you probably would have found many have done clean installs. Just because you didn't get issues does not mean others have not had theirs.

Many times in this subforum I have seen people complaining about Mavericks crashing and you look at their logs and they have non Apple drivers installed which were design for a older OS (eg. even as far back as Snow Leopard).

Along with that, a lot of issues are caused by malfunctioning apps which have not been updated. People do a clean install and then the first thing they do is reinstall the problem application!
 

fotuwe

macrumors member
Dec 22, 2009
88
15
Also having a lot of issues ... Going to downgrade my rMBP today to 10.8.x

The whole system feels laggy (f.e. Finder) and buggy (some Apps still not updated - I know it is not Apples fault)
 
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