Is it morally acceptable to abuse a generous returns policy?

[profcutter]

This discussion happens every month on here. I guarantee, if people stopped returning items to apple cold turkey, you’d see no change in prices, except upwards due to chip cost increases. Here’s my humble suggestion. If you’re concerned that your return will affect Apple’s bottom line in a consequential way, stop returning items. Even if they’re DOA, you bought it. For the rest of us, we know that Apple’s primary duty is to its shareholders, so maximizing profit is key. I’ll buy something, if I don’t like it, I’ll return it. I will sleep well at night. If y’all are so concerned about morality, why not spend that energy going after oil companies, and push for greater restrictions on emissions.

 

[SpotOnT]

So, what do others think?

I have never purchased and returned an Apple product before. That being said, if I did all my research and thought I knew what I wanted and purchased it...but then after 14 days I found that I was wrong and didn't like it, I would have no problem returning it and getting something else.

Now purchasing 3-4 different items at once to "try out" and then returning all but 1....that doesn't quite sit right with me. I mean you can test out and play with the products in the store after all, and doing that just seems wasteful to me.

 

[calstanford]

Apple deserves all the returns it gets.

I live in HK where Apple FORBIDS returns of any kind. So yea good luck getting a new iPhone in the new colors. You can't return it if you don't like it and if you wait for it to be in the store the order delay is already 2-3 months. Same with the iPad Mini et al.

Gift cards are happily sold by Apple when you trade in your device but NOT ACCEPTED for use to buy a new iPhone or iPad.

Apple HK is run by a bunch of hateful morons. Have a lot of people in town who are going the Samsung route these days are they're just fed up how Apple mistreats locals.

 

[macintoshmac]

Of course it is morally acceptable. It is even our birthright to.

Every year the forums are filled with how the policy is (ab)used and justifications of said (ab)use with or without realisation.

 

[joelhinch]

I know that Apple have a very generous no questions asked returns policy. But I would imagine that there is a significant cost to this for Apple ( which is obviouly then passed onto us, as customers ). After all, they can’t just put stuff back on the shelf like a book from a book store. There‘s an economic cost, and there’s an environmental cost, but there’s also a moral cost in that it seems many people are gaming this generous policy by buying machines they know they don’t need, in order to ‘test’ stuff out. This means people keenly waiting for a machine have to wait longer.
What do other people on here think of this? For me it seems in poor taste; the policy is there for people who genuinely find that the machine they bought just doesn’t suit their needs. And yet some folk on here almost talk about buying two and returning one with glee. Is it the worst of human nature, the unacceptable face of consumerism set against the pleas of restraint at COP 26? Or am I just getting old and fusty?

As background, I’m looking to buy one of the new laptops and so I’ve been researching my purchase to see what I need, don’t need, may want etc. I’ve measured out screen sizes on my desktop to compare,and been into the local computer stores to see various current apple models. I’ve read various reviews and spent probably too much time watching various YouTubers of no proven expertise all trotting out identikit rundowns. I feel like I've done my research now and I’d be pretty certain that when I make my purchase I’m making it seriously.

So, what do others think?

Apple themselves encourage this "buy them all and return what you dont want" shopping.

 

[Vegasryn]

Nope

 

[FrightWait]

Scalpers in Hong Kong abused this policy and now we don’t have it anymore. Unless the device is defective, Apple doesn’t accept any return.

If there is still such policy, I think I may well start a YouTube channel and earn my profits like many of my fellow Americans do ??

I think this hits the point.

The point of not abusing it has self interest too - if you want the generous return policy to stay, don’t abuse it. Don’t spoil it for the rest of us.

 

[Macalway]

You should maximize your utility for yourself as you're talking about a return to a $2.5T market capped company. Your single actions are irrelevant to any COP 26 stuff. Let larger polluting corporations worry about those problems.

Ah, got one. This is it folks. Behold.

 

[UltimateSyn]

I feel bad each and every time I return a product. I wholeheartedly wish that I wasn't so neurotic that I could easily and peacefully choose between different device sizes, specs, etc. But unfortunately a lot of the time... I can't. And it takes me painstaking deliberation and hours of actual hands-on usage to make those decisions. They happen to have that generous return policy, so I use it. Many would probably look at my receipts and transactions and say I'm abusing it. My only defense would be that I'm not doing it on purpose and I wish I didn't have to.

I was also annoyed that Apple opened up the orders on the new MacBooks Pros (with complex configuration options, five processor configs, RAM-processor dependencies, lack of info on battery life for M1 Pro vs. M1 Max, etc.) immediately after their announcement. That led me to panic-order a bunch of configs so I wouldn't lose my place in line even though I hadn't had enough time to think about and decide on which configuration I wanted. Oh well, I'll give them 5% of the blame and take the other 95%.

 

[calstanford]

I think this hits the point.

The point of not abusing it has self interest too - if you want the generous return policy to stay, don’t abuse it. Don’t spoil it for the rest of us.

This is such a ******** reason too. Scalpers haven't been an issue since Apple sold the iPhone here by pre-order delivery like everyone else in the world. And the Mainland border has been closed shut for two years now. So it's not like there's demand there.

They treat HK like this (no returns, gift cards basically useless now) because they can.

 

[Sanpete]

I guarantee, if people stopped returning items to apple cold turkey, you’d see no change in prices, except upwards due to chip cost increases.

Another who thinks cost of product and price aren't connected.

It's not just a matter of whether the price would come down, but whether it will go up as it did this year, or whether more of the cost can go towards making the product better than to covering returns.

Here’s my humble suggestion. If you’re concerned that your return will affect Apple’s bottom line in a consequential way, stop returning items. Even if they’re DOA, you bought it. For the rest of us, we know that Apple’s primary duty is to its shareholders, so maximizing profit is key. I’ll buy something, if I don’t like it, I’ll return it. I will sleep well at night. If y’all are so concerned about morality, why not spend that energy going after oil companies, and push for greater restrictions on emissions.

A string of ways to avoid the point.

 

[OriginalBaki]

I think you’re deceiving yourself. Apple will not be taking the hit for returns, it’s part of what we pay.

They would still charge the same price if returns were 0 lol. Apple is about maximizing margin, not passing savings onto the consumer. Which is why they increased the price of their MacBooks even though they’re saving money by making their own chips lol

 

[Six0Four]

With Apples bad quality control on certain items I don't mind returning them. For their prices, I'm returning until I get a near perfect device.

 

[tomswift99]

Apple is a huge company and every decision it makes is calculated and deliberate. You can't really abuse a policy if the costs are already priced in.

 

[Berti10]

You’re right. I already have an opinion. I’m just interested in what others think.

Of course there is a cost. Most prominent for me a environmental cost. Phones or laptops returned cannot be sold as „new“ again, ending up as refurbished or even disassembled in order to not devalue the own products. Apple also Swaps parts of every returned product, so that the surfaces you touch are new.

I went from a regular upgraded to a carefully considerer. And I‘m very happy with that approach. I now usually start Months ahead thinking about what I want and what I need and also start saving. Wenn the announcement comes, I know what I want and want to spend, and I‘m happy with my decisions for a long long time. With cameras (iPhone included), I noticed that after 3 years, you know how it will behave. The quality of your work increases because you know your product very well. For example, I upgraded from a 8+ to a 13PM, and I‘m delighted as well as disappointed from the camera. Sometimes the dynamic range creates photos never seen before, but every picture is so overprocessed and over sharpened, that 3/5 I‘m not happy with the results. Hope you get my point. Consider and choose wisely and then simply enjoy for a long Time.

 

[Matt Leaf]

I bought AirPods Pro on a whim and they really hurt my ears. Being able to return them was amazing, especially for how much they cost, and even for something that’s been in a person ears. Really appreciated that at the time.

 

[macintoshmac]

Apple is a huge company and every decision it makes is calculated and deliberate. You can't really abuse a policy if the costs are already priced in.

Then the same policy must exist for every market, right? It doesn’t. What gives, then?

 

[Ubuntu]

I bought AirPods Pro on a whim and they really hurt my ears. Being able to return them was amazing, especially for how much they cost, and even for something that’s been in a person ears. Really appreciated that at the time.

I think that’s a perfectly valid use case that doesn’t count as abuse of the policy.

To focus on the OP’s question; I think it is indeed bad when people abuse it. I know some people who often order 2-3 versions of the same device, sometimes even buying a temporary one from a local store so they can have it sooner while they wait for their actual config. It’s a waste and it’s selfish.

 

[James Godfrey]

After brexit I'm not sure anymore for inside the UK, but consumer rights in the EU deal with mail-order at any company. The 14 days are a legal requirement out here on the mainland for mail order, but Apple is quite generous compared to what they are required by law - Bought in store, built to order, engraved items etc.: they don't have to let you return them at all AFAIK.

Ref:
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

I think though this only applies if you have changed your mind and not actually used the product, if you use the product they can deduct part of the refund due to the reduced value of the item being used… not 100% sure though.

 

[tomswift99]

Then the same policy must exist for every market, right? It doesn’t. What gives, then?

Why would the same policy exist for every market? Different companies sell different products, have different business models, etc. Apple deciding it’s profitable for them doesn’t mean it would be profitable for a company that sells sneakers.

 

[macintoshmac]

Why would the same policy exist for every market? Different companies sell different products, have different business models, etc. Apple deciding it’s profitable for them doesn’t mean it would be profitable for a company that sells sneakers.

What? I’m talking only about Apple here having different return policies for different countries while keeping the prices jacked up for all those markets. I meant countries for markets.

 

[mxrider88]

Just make sure when you return it you say you do so because the software is a wreck. Who knows maybe sooner or later they’ll have a reality check! ?


About morality, I wouldn’t worry a bit.
Not less morally acceptable than a company that tells you they don’t give you a charger with the phone to reduce the environmental impact but then they give you a power cable that ends with a usb-c, so you have to buy a power brick most likely, which they generously offer to you at the check out for a ridiculous amount of $$. Why not adding it for free since you pay for it in the phone price that didn’t drop a cent?

 

[SirAnthonyHopkins]

The wheel of capitalism is what it is.

This is a bit nihilistic. I'm not deeply against Apple's return policy, but I think the OP has a reasonable point that there is an obvious environment and economic cost to some people's behaviour, particularly of the type you see on this forum, people buying devices seemingly entirely so they can start a thread about how they're going to return it.

I'd agree that the number of people doing that is low, and that there are also significant costs to not having such a returns policy.

But "it is what it is" doesn't seem like a considered response to me. We have to be better than "it's the way things are so why sweat it".

 

[SirAnthonyHopkins]

With Apples bad quality control on certain items I don't mind returning them. For their prices, I'm returning until I get a near perfect device.

If you think Apple has bad quality control I'm going to assume you've literally never bought anything from anywhere else.

 

[KennyJr]

It's worth remembering that returned items go into the Apple refurbishment system, then on to Apple's Refurbished Items store. Apple doesn't simply deliver these things to the local landfill. And don't forget that Apple recycles those items that are too far gone and beyond refurbishment.