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Is it morally acceptable to abuse a generous returns policy?
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I myself placed an order for both the M1 Max and the Pro, planning on returning one of them (unopened) after watching the full battery reviews. I was afraid that the shipping dates would continue to slip the longer I waited for the battery reviews.
I must admit that ethics isn't something that crossed my mind ?
I can tell you that I was more than a little annoyed at the PS5 scalpers. Though I know that this isn't the same as that.
I must admit that ethics isn't something that crossed my mind ?
I can tell you that I was more than a little annoyed at the PS5 scalpers. Though I know that this isn't the same as that.
There is no morality involved. Stop putting some sort of ethics on a pretty clear return policy based on a purely business and marketing strategy used by Apple. This policy encourages you to buy the macs.. Apple is saying we believe in these products so much you can return it for any reason in 14 days.
Why do people make it so complicated?
And those annoying YouTube people? Apple I am sure loves it. It is basically a bunch of people spending hours filming. Editing. Obsessing over their new laptops on YouTube. You seriously think Apple does not want them to spend countless hours doing Apple marketing for free???
And the possibility that someone might not get their 3k laptops a few days earlier because someone bought 1 too many laptop's? Is that a real issue? It's not like it's famine or homelessness.
Why do people make it so complicated?
And those annoying YouTube people? Apple I am sure loves it. It is basically a bunch of people spending hours filming. Editing. Obsessing over their new laptops on YouTube. You seriously think Apple does not want them to spend countless hours doing Apple marketing for free???
And the possibility that someone might not get their 3k laptops a few days earlier because someone bought 1 too many laptop's? Is that a real issue? It's not like it's famine or homelessness.
Several people here arguing that they should take what they clearly object to as a model for their own behavior.
I'm not saying the policy is hurting Apple, should be changed, or costs them money after profits. We've agreed it increases profits. But the cost to them still affects the price.
It's the same as for the cost of, say, the speakers. Using more expensive speakers contributes to the price of the product. It also attracts customers, so it increases profits. But the cost is still reflected in the price of the product. If someone did something to increase the cost of speakers to Apple, they'd likely either charge more, or use cheaper speakers, neither to the advantage of customers.
When customers increase the cost of the product through returns, the same principles apply.
Pretty sure you are not getting into heaven now.I myself placed an order for both the M1 Max and the Pro, planning on returning one of them (unopened) after watching the full battery reviews. I was afraid that the shipping dates would continue to slip the longer I waited for the battery reviews.
I must admit that ethics isn't something that crossed my mind
I can tell you that I was more than a little annoyed at the PS5 scalpers. Though I know that this isn't the same as that.
Point 2. Chickens and eggs! why should people who don’t take a very relaxed view of a purchase subsidise those who do? Maybe apple should charge a modest 2% restocking fee so only people who do this pay for it?
Point 3. Two wrongs don’t make a right
From a strictly moral perspective you may be right, but that does not affect the end result at all.
People will subsidize Apple's return policy no matter what. If you look at how game theory works, then both Apple and consumers should always expect the worst and individualistic behaviour, as one does not have any control over the other, nor can they combine their actions. If you choose not to use Apple's return policy, that does not affect the decision of million other customers who may still abuse it. The best individual outcome is to use Apple's return policy at your will, as it will always be considered in Apple's pricing. So one should not feel morally restrained to use the policy.
As for point 3, there is no wrong or right in these actions from a business perspective. Anyone can use his/her rights to his/her own advantage. Apple does it, and so any other company. You should not be expected to behave differently. You would even be voluntarily put in a worse position by behaving so kindly when the counterpart (Apple) does not play by the same rules.
Only obsessed losers like us in this forum buy and return with regularity.
The dent to Apple's profits or the carbon footprint of sending items back is so minuscule it's practically not even worth paying attention to. This sort of micro managing of personal carbon footprint is BS made by oil companies to distract you from the fact that they (along with the US military) are polluting to an unbelievable degree. Your personal carbon footprint (unless you're an extreme consumer) is mostly meaningless because it's the responsibilty of the government and large corporations to fix the pollution issue.
If you have some sort of moral objection to returning products you paid for then I'm not sure what to tell you, you've lost the plot entirely.
If you have some sort of moral objection to returning products you paid for then I'm not sure what to tell you, you've lost the plot entirely.
I've returned 10 different MBPs over the past 2 years. I've also purchased 3 MBPs. I have not been flagged.
we all know the real reason
ppl are annoyed others ordering more than 1 will delay their order
let's get real here
I didn't want to create an entire new thread just for this. So apologies in advance for hijacking this thread a bit, as it seems tangentially related.
I canceled one of my orders. I had purchased it on my Apple Card w/ the 12 months installment plan. It seems Apple has already charged the tax amount to the card. But when I canceled the order, I did not receive a refund for it. Does anyone know how long for the refund to appear?
I canceled one of my orders. I had purchased it on my Apple Card w/ the 12 months installment plan. It seems Apple has already charged the tax amount to the card. But when I canceled the order, I did not receive a refund for it. Does anyone know how long for the refund to appear?
Hmm, should be immediate. It only took a minute after an Apple employee processed the return that I saw my refund.
You seem to want to argue this point without any actual specific proof.
And besides, the issue here - is it moral?
If you’d like to provide some figures or studies to show lenient return policies do increase sales for Apple then please do so.
Sure there’s the 2015 Kumar/Peterson study and Janakiraman’s 2016 Dallas study that showed there may be a connection, but both were fairly generic and addressed basic return policies - of which many stores have scant few, and others have limited. Neither addressed the extremly open policies that Apple has though.
And, what there hasn’t been, from what I can tell, is any follow up studies based upon this.
Two independant none peer reviewed studies doesn’t a fact make.
I'm not saying it definitely does, though the connection is there for not-Apple. But the other poster was insistent that Apple was losing money on balance of it, and I was simply saying that's not necessarily true.
Sticking AirPods into your ears becomes a health issue, a sanitary issue, and that is why Apple cannot permit people to do that in the store with display models. Common sense there -- it's a medical issue! Would you want to put a pair of display AirPods into your ears and later develop a potentially serious ear infection because some other customer who had something nasty going on in his ears had also had earlier put that same pair of AirPods in them?
So instead a prospective customer has to purchase a pair of AirPods and then if the things fit, great, and if they don't, fine, return them and they will be shipped off to the repair depot and the part that plugs into the ears will be replaced and sanitized and then at some point the things will be offered as refurbs.
Not about Apple's profits, not an objection to being able to return what you paid for. Read the thread if you'd like to know what people are actually talking about.
Again, that's not what I've been saying. I keep denying that and agreeing that it's more profitable to them to have the policy. I don't think my point is hard to follow if you think of it the way you would any other component of the product.
I couldn't disagree more. Buying 3 iPhones - in different colours - knowing you'll return 2 of them? Why does anybody need to order them to see the colours? Go to a store or look at the damn website! Its hardly as if the colours are difficult to distinguish from each other!
And the suggestion that Apple created this policy in order for people to order 5 to "test" and then return 4 is just ludicrous.
Scalpers in Hong Kong abused this policy and now we don’t have it anymore. Unless the device is defective, Apple doesn’t accept any return.
If there is still such policy, I think I may well start a YouTube channel and earn my profits like many of my fellow Americans do ??
If there is still such policy, I think I may well start a YouTube channel and earn my profits like many of my fellow Americans do ??
I suggest you read my comment again, please don’t attribute me things that I didn’t say. I never supposed that Apple created this policy purposely and only for people to order more devices than what they intend to keep. I only said that it was a calculated side effect and that I don’t have issues with people doing it. If Apple considered this kind of practice like an abuse of its policy, it would have put restrictions or limits long time ago. Do apple encourage this? I don’t think so, but they still allow it.