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Trump says these tariffs are about bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US. We don't have workers that want to work in Manufacturing, or have the skills even if they wanted to. Back in 2009, Obama invited Steve Jobs to dinner and asked him if he'd be willing to bring jobs back to the US. Jobs told him Apple cannot. He said there aren't anywhere near the number of skilled engineers to build and manage factories to make Apple's stuff, and totally insufficient workers to work at those factories.

China has two advantages, both of which are a real problem for the US. It still has a very large pool of people willing and able to work in factories for not much money. And I've been to China. The work ethic there is very different than here. Chinese people as a whole are much more willing to put in long hours and work very diligently than US people. We're used to shorter hours with more pay. Chinese industry also has been ramping up very quickly its own robotics technology to build factories that need far less people than factories in other parts of the world, including the US. So, even as its population plummets, and the number of people needing factory jobs to survive also plummets, they're getting ready for this with robots and computers replacing factory workers. Oh, and the robots and computers they are using for their factories, guess where they're made? Yup, China. Doesn't look good.
 
Problem is that the impact won’t be felt until all the manufacturers have set up their production facilities in the US. That won’t happen before September.

I was thinking more about the tariffs ending due to the negative impacts on the economy. Congress is feeling the heat and if things keep going the way tehy are will step in if Trump doesn't change course, IMHO.

Unless, the real impact intended, as someone else here already mentioned, is that the tariffs are an administrative scare to make companies negotiate with Trump individually (and they are, in fact a push for consolidation of power of the way the market operates, free markets anyone?)

They all want an end to tariffs, so maybe the pressure from Congress, companies, and voters will result in a course change.

I think you miss my last point which is that manufacturing in Canada would remove any tariff for Apple selling to the rest of the world. I don't know the balance of sales between the US and all other countries and my point assumes Canada welcomes Apple with open arms and does not apply tariffs themselves. From the UK, I'm not concerned about raised costs for US citizens - apparently it's what they voted for!

Why would they move from lower manufacturing cost countries to Canada just to sell to the rest of world? They can expand Brazil and India if needed.

US tariffs do not apply to sales outside of the US. If the US wanted to tax sales outside the US they could add a 'tax adjustment' for devices sold out of the US and made outside the US on US companies; which would probably result in companies finding ways to split off foreign entities, have them control production and then sell back to the US.
 
Will this affect prices in Canada and other countries? Since other countries are not imposing tariffs on China, prices should not rise, right?

If so, this will create a weird situation where prices are higher in the US than in other countries, when usually it's the opposite situation!
 
Because a problem shared is a problem halved.


It is asinine until you realise that Apple isn't targetting the most price-sensitive part of the market. People have soaked up Apple's price hikes before with a shrug and carried on buying. Apple can't go crazy but a 10-20% uplift isn't out of the question. It might not manifest itself so visibly outside of the US market if the dollar takes a visible dip, which I don't think this administration would be averse to: cheaper exports, dearer imports and easing the burden on servicing the national debt.
Ireland did what you're talking about there (devaluing the currency) a number of times in the eighties and nineties, by changing where it was pegged in the Exchange Rate Mechanism (precursor to the Euro). It's inflationary. I know because I lived through it. Devaluation is a short term tactic only, and the benefits of it are soon lost.

You're also neglecting the fact that if the dollar devalues, the cost of foreign inputs goes up on the double - the foreign manufacturer will require more dollars per unit to be able to pay their for thei local labour and materials in their own currency, AND the tariffs. Inflation could easily go off the charts, and very quickly.

Regarding other countries shrugging off a veiled subsidy - I don't think so. The US has alienated and insulted a lot of countries lately - I don't think the goodwill is there.
 
Will this affect prices in Canada and other countries? Since other countries are not imposing tariffs on China, prices should not rise, right?

If so, this will create a weird situation where prices are higher in the US than in other countries, when usually it's the opposite situation!
Exactly 👍🏻
Unless you have an old iPhone then I think you should hold fire the now
But that’s me personally
 
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Will this affect prices in Canada and other countries? Since other countries are not imposing tariffs on China, prices should not rise, right?

If so, this will create a weird situation where prices are higher in the US than in other countries, when usually it's the opposite situation!


I expect it will affect prices in other countries.

Costs will increase. Apple will need to evaluate and adjust their supply chain globally, and that will cost money. Shareholders will expect that consumers will cover those costs.

At the same time, iPhones are not sold on a Cost+ basis. Apple sets the price based on what it believes the market will support. If Apple believes that the Canadian market will eat a price increase during to the tariffs, then they will adjust pricing accordingly, whether that's more or less than the actual cost change.
 
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Did you see the 1996 video where Nancy Pelosi attacked China's tariffs on the United States?

Did you know Barack Obama imposed tariffs on Chinese tires in 2009?

Why did Joe Biden keep the Trump tariffs during his administration?

This is not a Democrat or Republican issue. At least, it wasn't until Trump got re-elected.
Yet, somehow Trump this time magically can tank the world economy just by issuing reciprocal tariffs unilaterally minus Russia, and consumer purchasing power takes a massive hit, as well as the stock market. Maybe, this blank tariff approach is too destructive and disruptive?
 
I wonder what will happen if customers aren’t going to “cover those costs” by not making purchases. Tank sales to keep individual profit margins instead of eating the tariff.

Yeah it will be balancing act for sure.
 
Please identify a few of these massive foreign tariffs for us. For example, Vietnam’s tariffs average 9.4%. Does that constitute “massive”? Is the President’s 46% tariff on them even vaguely proportionate to it?
21% from China, prior to 2025. And now this:

“BREAKING: Taiwan has agreed to drop ALL tariffs on the United States, joining India, Israel, Vietnam, and Cambodia, who also intend to zero out their tariffs


European Union has just offered ZERO for ZERO tariffs with the United States. Well over 50 countries have called to negotiate with Trump so far.”

It seems way too many suffer their own hatred of Trump to the extent they become absolutely hyperbolic in their rhetoric.
 
What are you talking about? The US is the biggest economy in the world, often at the expense of many other countries. Africa has been plundered. But now you're going to cry? This is beyond absurd.

Especially as nobody forced US companies to offshore their production. And nobody forces US customers to purchase non-US goods. That's all on you.

The hatred towards the US is skyrocketing right now. Countries need allies. And you better be sure that this will lead to many new partnerships and trade deal agreements without the US.
Crying? That’s all I’ve seen since Trump got elected.
 
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21% from China, prior to 2025. And now this:

“BREAKING: Taiwan has agreed to drop ALL tariffs on the United States, joining India, Israel, Vietnam, and Cambodia, who also intend to zero out their tariffs


European Union has just offered ZERO for ZERO tariffs with the United States. Well over 50 countries have called to negotiate with Trump so far.”

It seems way too many suffer their own hatred of Trump to the extent they become absolutely hyperbolic in their rhetoric.
Yep. All the whining and stupid click bait while the situation is changing daily. Sometimes hourly. Many countries are already folding under the pressure! Instead of worrying about the next iPhone people should be loading up on massively discounted Apple stock.
 
Ireland did what you're talking about there (devaluing the currency) a number of times in the eighties and nineties, by changing where it was pegged in the Exchange Rate Mechanism (precursor to the Euro). It's inflationary. I know because I lived through it. Devaluation is a short term tactic only, and the benefits of it are soon lost.

You're also neglecting the fact that if the dollar devalues, the cost of foreign inputs goes up on the double - the foreign manufacturer will require more dollars per unit to be able to pay their for thei local labour and materials in their own currency, AND the tariffs. Inflation could easily go off the charts, and very quickly.

Regarding other countries shrugging off a veiled subsidy - I don't think so. The US has alienated and insulted a lot of countries lately - I don't think the goodwill is there.
I never said that the aims were smart or sustainable. If the aim of the policy makers (whoever they may be behind the scenes) are to reduce imports and transform them into onshore manufacturing, then inflationary pressures arising from a weaker dollar are the least of their concerns - the mantra is short term pain for long term gain. The more cynical will suspect rather darker motives, considering the shadowy characters associated with the MAGA cult.

As for the last part, goodwill has nothing to do with it. If people really want an iPhone they will have to pay whatever Apple thinks it can get away with. However, we are all speculating here. It all depends on who Cook will decide to tick off: the customer base or AAPL shareholders. Or both.
 
As for the last part, goodwill has nothing to do with it. If people really want an iPhone they will have to pay whatever Apple thinks it can get away with. However, we are all speculating here. It all depends on who Cook will decide to tick off: the customer base or AAPL shareholders. Or both.
I don’t see any way to avoid annoying both.
 
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21% from China, prior to 2025. And now this:

“BREAKING: Taiwan has agreed to drop ALL tariffs on the United States, joining India, Israel, Vietnam, and Cambodia, who also intend to zero out their tariffs


European Union has just offered ZERO for ZERO tariffs with the United States. Well over 50 countries have called to negotiate with Trump so far.”

It seems way too many suffer their own hatred of Trump to the extent they become absolutely hyperbolic in their rhetoric.
Okay. But the President slapped 54% tariffs on China. That’s not reciprocal, and it’s not proportionate. It is clearly unjust. He’s also threatening (today at least) 50% more, making things even more unequal even as a response to China’s tariff hike retaliation. The just action would have been equal tariffs, not spiking them even further. The obvious conclusion is that the President is not interested in fair tariffs at all, no matter what he says.

We also know that the administration says that Vietnam’s zeroing out of its tariffs is, inexplicably, not good enough. There’s consequently no reason to believe that anyone else’s similar actions will be good enough either.

All this means that the tariffs aren’t intended as a negotiating tactic. That means that they are here for the long term, along with the devastation of global markets.

And we’re supposed to believe that this is a good thing?
 
European Union has just offered ZERO for ZERO tariffs with the United States
Has Trump shown any indication he’ll agree?
Being (supposedly) the greatest dealmaker of them all, when is he going to close that deal?
Given the market’s reaction, he’ll better agree to such a deal no later than …yesterday!

Here’s the thing:
“Zero for zero” is an actually reciprocal policy.
But Trump’s tariffs are anything but.
He’s not interested in reciprocal tariffs, obviously.
He want’s much more than reciprocal tariffs.
That’s why they came up with nebulous “currency manipulation and other barriers”.

He’ll say it’s all not good enough.
He’s never going to say “result achieved, let’s do that zero-for-zero deal”.
I guarantee you that.
 
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21% from China, prior to 2025. And now this:

“BREAKING: Taiwan has agreed to drop ALL tariffs on the United States, joining India, Israel, Vietnam, and Cambodia, who also intend to zero out their tariffs


European Union has just offered ZERO for ZERO tariffs with the United States. Well over 50 countries have called to negotiate with Trump so far.”

It seems way too many suffer their own hatred of Trump to the extent they become absolutely hyperbolic in their rhetoric.
It’s interesting that china hasn’t backed down yet I wonder why

What’s interesting is according to reports the EU actually offered that zero for zero on cars
& a range of industrial goods about 2 weeks
ago but trump still went ahead
 
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21% from China, prior to 2025. And now this:

“BREAKING: Taiwan has agreed to drop ALL tariffs on the United States, joining India, Israel, Vietnam, and Cambodia, who also intend to zero out their tariffs


European Union has just offered ZERO for ZERO tariffs with the United States. Well over 50 countries have called to negotiate with Trump so far.”

It seems way too many suffer their own hatred of Trump to the extent they become absolutely hyperbolic in their rhetoric.
Factually incorrect. The EU offered zero for zero on 19 February. Trump refused. They are not offering it now.

You have a President who doesn't understand the difference been a trade deficit and a tariff. Still, your funeral!
 
Factually incorrect. The EU offered zero for zero on 19 February. Trump refused. They are not offering it now.

You have a President who doesn't understand the difference been a trade deficit and a tariff. Still, your funeral!
Because they want to flood the EU with cheap chicken & beef as they said on a certain network the other day.
 
I agree with some in observing where the real economy has shifted in recent decades, and the fact that conservatives in particular were concerned about this was good.
However, the West (i.e. Europe, Japan, Korea and Taiwan, all of whom recognized the US as the world's police) cannot understand that this task has now been cowardly handed over by the Republicans to an unpredictable and confused-looking puppet master.

A world power needs a level-headed tactician to strive for your described goal or this direction, it needs neither nationalistic muddleheads nor unpredictable puffery.
In Germany, during the state and economic crisis at the end of the 1920s, there was the National Socialist movement, which bundled reparations payments that were perceived as unjust (which damaged the economy as a disease and caused unemployment and inflation) and channeled them into a leader. Undoubtedly a wrong person, because he created a war economy miracle, and then immediately covered people and the world with threats and later war.

No era is comparable to another, and yet individuals and social movements always function in a similar way.

The utopia of a sensibly rational economy through self-sufficiency efforts and populist national recollection is actually always a game with fire. Trump is currently celebrating his personal fun game in orgasmic fashion. Extreme desires for power ("You're fired" orgasms) have no rationally determinable goal such as accumulating money, building a country, etc., they stand alone.
People in the world (especially Europe) are speechless and horrified, America has never been so uncultivated and crude. But this is probably the highest sublimation of power in 1 human being.

Of course, chaos is also an instrument of strength, it awakens fears of unpredictability. But if you take chaos too far, you lose. It's like laughter. The message gets lost if you laugh too long, and if you don't stop, everyone turns away affected. So Trump appears to the world as somewhat confused, not like Biden, but in his own genius way. HE has entered the world and can no longer be tamed.

America now seems loud and self-confident again (like Germany did back then), but has no culture of staging this to its advantage on the world stage.
In the past, economic issues such as tariffs were negotiated by appointed economic experts and politicians in the back room; there was no need for the public stage, which is hardly receptive to them. Today, of course, such structures have been replaced by the Internet, which can freely distribute opinions (including mine) without an editor-in-chief or political affiliation, and can therefore generate much more tension and popular opinion.
From the point of view of growth, the old compromise system and its operational mode of action had never really harmed America as a whole.

Government debt is everywhere, and of course it's a problem, but America is not alone in having this problem.
But if you use this problem (like the price of eggs) to sweep the stock market clean, destabilize the entire financial industry, set institutions on fire, sweep “lazy people” out of government agencies, and produce powerful effects, then in earlier decades you were considered a demagogue (Hitler), charlatan, or anti-Christ (as I sometimes read here).

Europe is not speechless because it has been on America's back and is now expected to bear the costs of armaments and war preparations itself. We have long since accepted this and we are actively working to implement it. But the fact that billionaires don't care what happens to the NATO defense community shows how perversely the Republicans are currently dealing with values, infected by their icons.

As a European, I saw and respected America as a friend and in many ways as a role model until the takeover. Even my father said to me as a child: “America sets the rules of the world, but the way it is is not a disadvantage for the world and is the best possible compromise”. I asked him at the time: “And if it ever becomes like Hitler's Germany? Then who are the “allies” who will save the world?” My father remained silent and then said, “Let's hope it never comes to that.”

Now we have to wait and see and gradually realize who we have in front of us.
 
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I think Chinese government knows and they are preparing for it. China is also going for high-end, high value added products and is pushing hard for servicing industry.

The point is that a country will go through high growth, low end manufacturing to jump start its economy, eventually it will go for high-end, high value added products. Currently, there are only two countries that able to do this, United States and China.

The advantage for China is that China has 1.4B people to consume, the market is big enough to allow full supply chain to grow. Chinese companies is able to access such large market, which allows them to invest and grow. Something can't be said to Vietnam, Indonesia.

The problem of India, it is they are very inefficient and their basic infrastructures are very poor. They have large amount of people uneducated and their electricity grid is very weak.
Yep, but India is improving. Which is why it was just announced that Apple is planning more orders from India. Now, the spotlight is on them as they will have to ramp up production for the iPhone 17.

 
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