iPhone XR Is the XR Display Going To Look Like Garbage When Displaying Text?

[Falhófnir]

At 12-18 inches your eye cannot discern pixels above 300ppi. This is scientific fact you can look up. That is why magazine print is 300dpi.

Sure if you hold it to your nose you'll see pixels, which then you're just trying to convince yourself the PPI is bad as there is no reasonable use situation to do that (plus it can damage your eyes).

There is no possible way you can tell 75 pixels per inch are missing from the Plus 401ppi at any reasonable viewing distance.

That old statistic relates only to not being able to discern individual pixels from a foot away - you can, however, still notice more detail and sharper objects onscreen at pixel densities over 300. This is particularly true when the system is rendering @3x rather than @2x so the source graphics are more detailed as well. Look at a plus next to a standard iPhone from 12 to 18 inches and you absolutely can tell the difference.

 

[EugW]

I would need bifocals, I think. I'm short-sighted, can't read bus numbers from a distance, and I put on my glasses to watch the TV.

I'm no expert, but I'd say you'd probably want progressives. Or else digital progressives.

Don't get bifocals. They make you look like a senior. Plus they only have two lens powers, with a sharp transition between them.

You might be past the age for "digital" lenses and might be better off with regular progressives, but here is a Zeiss marketing video describing their "digital" progressives:

They even have an iPad app for lens selection, but I've never tried it:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/zeiss-lenses-for-digital-life/id1195167522?mt=8

 

[Ffosse]

Thanks, that looks interesting.

 

[LarryJoe33]

Can you elaborate a bit more on the PWM and how it is driving you crazy?
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This is what I don't get - surely younger people will (mostly) have better vision? As I've said, I can't complain about the screens on my Max, iPad Pro or MacBook. I do notice the difference playing 1440p YouTube versus regular HD on my MacBook, though.

EDIT: Sorry, I misinterpretated what you said about under 40s.

I got a TV for the first time in 7 years this Summer and I'm still blown away with how good normal 1080p HD looks.

And for the record, I am over forty, and I still need my readers on the Max It's either that or make my font 20pts. So, it's either be one of those old people with an enormous font reading texts or wear reading glasses - both have the same connotation - YOU'RE OLD!!

 

[EugW]

And for the record, I am over forty, and I still need my readers on the Max It's either that or make my font 20pts. So, it's either be one of those old people with an enormous font reading texts or wear reading glasses - both have the same connotation - YOU'RE OLD!!

You don't have to mess with the fonts directly. You can use Display Zoom. You lose effective screen real estate, as it just converts your XS Max into an XS in terms of usable screen space, but because the screen is bigger, everything on screen including the fonts is bigger.

Settings --> Display & Brightness --> Display Zoom View --> Zoomed

Note that the font and screen element sizes are exactly the same in standard mode on the XS and XS Max. So, if you need the reading glasses on the XS, you'll need them on the XS Max too in standard mode. Only zoomed mode might let you use your reading glasses less.

 

[Ffosse]

I can see fine at short distances; it's just seeing things from afar I have problems with.

 

[EugW]

I can see fine at short distances; it's just seeing things from afar I have problems with.

It sounds like you may have problems with both given your age, considering you're at the age of presbyopia and because you're shortsighted.

1. If you buy regular single focal length glasses, you can see far because your shortsightedness is corrected, but you can't read your iPhone unless you hold it far away, say at extreme arm's length (which is really uncomfortable). But then the text is too small at that distance to read comfortably too.

2. If you take off your glasses, you can read your iPhone, but may be only if you hold it at say 6-8 inches from your face, at least if your shortsightedness is quite bad. That isn't very comfortable either. BTW, at this distance, it's easy to see the pixels on the 326 ppi iPhone 8 or XR.

3. If you use reading glasses, you can read your iPhone, but you can't see anything far away.

4. If you get progressives or digital progressives, you can see far away through the top and mid portion of your glasses, and your iPhone at a reasonable viewing distance through the bottom portion of your glasses.

Option #4 is probably your best bet, but consult an optometrist (not an optician).

 

[LarryJoe33]

You don't have to mess with the fonts directly. You can use Display Zoom. You lose effective screen real estate, as it just converts your XS Max into an XS in terms of usable screen space, but because the screen is bigger, everything on screen including the fonts is bigger.

Settings --> Display & Brightness --> Display Zoom View --> Zoomed

Note that the font and screen element sizes are exactly the same in standard mode on the XS and XS Max. So, if you need the reading glasses on the XS, you'll need them on the XS Max too in standard mode. Only zoomed mode might let you use your reading glasses less.

Understood

 

[internetrando]

Visually indistinguishable.

Colors, contrast, and overall look will be different, but the iPhone with a LCD display is going to be the same as every iPhone with a LCD display that came before it...which was all of them. What you're speaking about is a non-issue.

 

[treyhunnid]

One thing apple does t do is crappy screens. Ever since retina started all screens are great. Don’t get too caught up in the numbers. The old 4.7 screens were great. These will be fine

 

[EugW]

Visually indistinguishable.

Colors, contrast, and overall look will be different, but the iPhone with a LCD display is going to be the same as every iPhone with a LCD display that came before it...which was all of them. What you're speaking about is a non-issue.

That statement of course is problematic in itself.

The Plus screens were visually noticeably better than the non-Plus screens. This has been true ever since the original Plus screens were introduced with the 6 Plus. The 6 Plus looks better than even the 8, which came out several years later.

We don't know what the XR will look like yet, but judging by the specs, the XR screen will look roughly like the 8's screen, and not the Plus screens.

Again, that is not to say the 8 screen is bad. It is a pretty decent screen actually. However, the 8 Plus screen is noticeably better, particularly when it comes to small text quality. I'll also say that it's true that most people won't care. But there is a significant minority that will care, and for good reason.

 

[ghsDUDE]

Nobody complained about the 'retina' display before the plus models. Now it's trash?

That's the good thing about getting older. Your sight and hearing aren't what they used to be so 'old' retina displays look just fine and AirPods sound great.

No one complained about 720p TVs either...until 1080 and 4K came out.

 

[Broadus]

That statement of course is problematic in itself.

The Plus screens were visually noticeably better than the non-Plus screens. This has been true ever since the original Plus screens were introduced with the 6 Plus. The 6 Plus looks better than even the 8, which came out several years later.

We don't know what the XR will look like yet, but judging by the specs, the XR screen will look roughly like the 8's screen, and not the Plus screens.

Again, that is not to say the 8 screen is bad. It is a pretty decent screen actually. However, the 8 Plus screen is noticeably better, particularly when it comes to small text quality. I'll also say that it's true that most people won't care. But there is a significant minority that will care, and for good reason.

I am over sixty, wear progressive lenses (extremely nearsighted), and can tell the difference in font crispness between my 6s and my friend's 6 Plus. As has been mentioned, the 6s fonts are a little softer around the edges than the 6 Plus.

Why did not Apple go 400+ ppi on the XR? Was it a matter of keeping down the cost? Were they afraid that a display with the "Plus" font crispness would eat into the XS and XS Max appeal?

I prefer the XR's overall size but the 8 Plus' display. The XR's display will doubtlessly be fine, but I suspect fonts won't be as crisp as that of, say, an 8 Plus. I was going to preorder an XR, but I think I will wait and compare the XR and 8 Plus first in a store.

 

[Benito]

Have a look at a iPhone 8 and you’ll have a good idea of what it looks like in terms of pixel density. I personally think it’ll look fine unless you’ve been using an iPhone X for a while and have become used to the pixel density that it has and the oled screen contrast.

 

[JPack]

No one complained about 720p TVs either...until 1080 and 4K came out.

720p TVs were available from 20" - 60".

The PPI varied wildly depending on whether you had a 60" plasma or a 22" LCD. The viewing distance played a big role too.

With an iPhone, your viewing distance doesn't change. In fact, you're more likely to hold the 6.1" display further away than a 4.7" phone.

 

[Phone Junky]

Have a look at a iPhone 8 and you’ll have a good idea of what it looks like in terms of pixel density. I personally think it’ll look fine unless you’ve been using an iPhone X for a while and have become used to the pixel density that it has and the oled screen contrast.

If you've been using the iPhone X, why would you 'downgrade' to the XR?

 

[NJHitmen]

If you've been using the iPhone X, why would you 'downgrade' to the XR?

I can think of one legitimately good reason to make that switch: PWM sensitivity.

Beyond that, there are a few other possibilities: latest & greatest processor, longer battery life, superior (single) camera performance. I’m not saying they’re good reasons, but they’re reasons nonetheless.

 

[ooloo]

correct me if im wrong but... if the xr had pixel rendering @3x it'd have a greater ppi number than the xs max, right? if so, it's understandable that apple could not allow that

 

[EugW]

correct me if im wrong but... if the xr had pixel rendering @3x it'd have a greater ppi number than the xs max, right? if so, it's understandable that apple could not allow that

Pixel rendering at 3X would be the same rendered resolution as the Max. Final output though can be anything. It could just be downscaled to whatever they wanted, like say 401 ppi (which is what it is on the Plus). For a 6.1" screen, that would be 2218x1024, which would still be significantly lower on paper than the Max's 2688x1242.

However, Apple just chose to render at 2X and output at 2X, which actually makes sense from a technical and cost perspective.

 

[apolloa]

So this thread has now turned into the device for glasses? Ok.....

Have a problem with your eyesight? Go and see an optician, otherwise let’s talk about the XR screen

 

[EugW]

Pixel rendering at 3X would be the same rendered resolution as the Max. Final output though can be anything. It could just be downscaled to whatever they wanted, like say 401 ppi (which is what it is on the Plus). For a 6.1" screen, that would be 2218x1024, which would still be significantly lower on paper than the Max's 2688x1242.

However, Apple just chose to render at 2X and output at 2X, which actually makes sense from a technical and cost perspective.

BTW, a 2218x1024 6.1" XR would be totally awesome, and totally doable too. They could also charge $50 more for that, next year.

But I'm 95% sure they won't do that.

 

[ooloo]

Pixel rendering at 3X would be the same rendered resolution as the Max. Final output though can be anything. It could just be downscaled to whatever they wanted, like say 401 ppi (which is what it is on the Plus). For a 6.1" screen, that would be 2218x1024, which would still be significantly lower on paper than the Max's 2688x1242.

However, Apple just chose to render at 2X and output at 2X, which actually makes sense from a technical and cost perspective.

if it would have the same resolution as the max but on a smaller sized screen the ppi number could be greater than on the max, right?
https://www.paintcodeapp.com/news/ultimate-guide-to-iphone-resolutions

 

[EugW]

if it would have the same resolution as the max but on a smaller sized screen the ppi number could be greater than on the max, right?
https://www.paintcodeapp.com/news/ultimate-guide-to-iphone-resolutions

Yes, but as mentioned, they can render at 3X, but output at something else.

This is exactly what they do for the 8 Plus. It is rendered at 3X but output at 1080p, 401 ppi. This works out to about 2.5X.

2.5X on the XR would be great, but they'll probably just stick with 2X for both rendering and output in the 2019 model too.

 

[ooloo]

Yes, but as mentioned, they can render at 3X, but output at something else.

This is exactly what they do for the 8 Plus. It is rendered at 3X but output at 1080p, 401 ppi. This works out to about 2.5X.

2.5X on the XR would be great, but they'll probably just stick with 2X for both rendering and output in the 2019 model too.

i guess downsamping has its trade-offs too

 

[ghsDUDE]

720p TVs were available from 20" - 60".

The PPI varied wildly depending on whether you had a 60" plasma or a 22" LCD. The viewing distance played a big role too.

With an iPhone, your viewing distance doesn't change. In fact, you're more likely to hold the 6.1" display further away than a 4.7" phone.

My comment was implying that 326 was great 4-5 years ago...but now it’s lacking compared to the Plus/X/Max and other competitors.