Is their any truth to apple and the planned obsolensce

[jblagden]

A few comments, Apple is in business to make money. This is what investors demand and expect.

They try to do this by offering well designed products at a competitive price and leveraging a closed ecosystem as a benefit. They make the hardware and the software and provide the services like music, cloud, etc... this is sort of an all-in strategy that has proven very compelling for those people who want the advantages that a closed system can offer... software and hardware designed to work together.... improving the harminey through engineering instead of just adding more horsepower.

To me it's not a great comparison Mac OS vs Windows. Windows hardware can be anything, everything, and to some people, this is a detractor that they just don't want to live with.

As to planned obsolescence I don't even know what that means it's such a buzzword now.

As consumers we have loads of choices, we can buy for longevity, price, performance or any number of other factors we deem important.

However, the idea of supporting the hardware indefinitely, improving the software constantly, and adding new features as they become possible or "invented" are at times mutually incompatible. And while some make a lot of noise that their 4 year old phone isn't as snappy as the new phones being sold, it's not clear what these same people would design or do if they were in charge of driving revenue for Apple.

the masses demand new products, this is what is driving the revenue for the whole industry.. they don't just want software improvements to the original iPhone, they want new hardware, new software, they want it all.
In that vision you have to crunch the numbers and understand when the effort to maintain backward compatibility will cost more than its worth, the point of rapidly diminishing gains.

It all has a cost... you can invest in building the next new thing, out some towards keeping he most recent devices working as best as you can within tech limitations and decide not to go all the way back to the beginning.... or you can divert more from achieving the future vision, and put more into device compatibility and realize less profits, reduced velocity of innovation, etc.

I'd argue that Apple probably spends more than most companies of its type on legacy device support and that their hardware products generally have a longer practical lifespan as a result of this and the advantages of a closed ecosystem.

Somehow we have to move beyond our entitled mindset...

Planned obsolescence is when something is designed to become useless or fail after a few years.

 

[joeblow7777]

Most people with iPhone 5 and 6 series devices seem to be reporting that iOS 10 has improved performance if anything. Personally, I'm sometimes amazed by how much I still like my 6. It still feels like a new phone to me.

 

[oftheheavens]

software-wise I don't think they like put code in there that slows down older models cause that would be found rather fast I would think by outsiders. I know for a fact though that older models do start to lag and stutter around 2 generations old, but I think it is due to more activities happening in the background or whatever just from new coding and apps (total coding noob so go with it as long as you get my meaning)

 

[Qbnkelt]

Planned obsolescence is when something is designed to become useless or fail after a few years.

Which is not what Apple is doing considering that I just updated my work issued two year old iPhone 6 to iOS10 and it's working perfectly fine.

 

[Savor]

Uh, yeah.

Been living under a rock? Been happening for over 90 years now started in the automobile industry.

Here's one example -
Apple iPad 2 (2011) - Supported up to iOS10
Apple iPhone 4s (2011) - NOT supported up to iOS10

Both have same A5 chip. The iPad 2 came out earlier and was originally on iOS4. The iPhone 4s sold much greater. But Apple is aware iPhones are their bread and butter. Stops support for 4s. The iPad 2 continues on with more software updates to lag the device like iOS9 did to the A5 chip. If you truly believe Apple or others companies doesn't think of planned obsolescence, you should check out the e-waste in landfills. Al Gore is shaking his head right now and laughing at all of us from our ignorance.

 

[MrBukey]

Uh, yeah.

Been living under a rock? Been happening for over 90 years now started in the automobile industry.

Here's one example -
Apple iPad 2 (2011) - Supported up to iOS10
Apple iPhone 4s (2011) - NOT supported up to iOS10

Both have same A5 chip. The iPad 2 came out earlier and was originally on iOS4. The iPhone 4s sold much greater. But Apple is aware iPhones are their bread and butter. Stops support for 4s. The iPad 2 continues on with more software updates to lag the device like iOS9 did to the A5 chip. If you truly believe Apple or others companies doesn't think of planned obsolescence, you should check out the e-waste in landfills. Al Gore is shaking his head right now and laughing at all of us from our ignorance.

Hold your horses on the ol' conspiracy theories there!

Apple are not going to support updates for every product forever, that we have to accept.

In fact you buy a product and you hope for updates, but they're not guaranteed - you buy a product as it is there and then. Planned obsolescence would mean Apple purposefully designing products to not work for whatever reason after a given date or period of time. An iPhone 4s or iPad 2 still works without iOS 10.

Apple are in the business to create customers - so why would they use planned obsolescence?

• Many iPhones get sold on / recycled / handed down and a new generation of people get to benefit at a lower price point (and perhaps couldn't otherwise get the phone) - this creates more Apple fans, and more customers (App Store, Music/video, accessories (even third party companies generates money in license fees for Apple as the market is bigger), etc).

• An Apple device holding value so it can be sold on also makes happy customers.

It's in Apple's interests to support products with updates therefore for as long as it's commercially viable - and it's pretty clear they do that do. I think it's a bit much to expect something in a technology field to get the latest and greatest OS over half a decade later.

Additionally your iPad 2 and iPhone 4s examples are invalid. They share the same processor, yes. How about memory? How about screen size? How many "versions" do Apple actually have to support for new OS's on each platform?

Since the iPad 2 and iPhone 4s in 2011 there have been 10 iPhone model/versions and 10 iPad model/versions released, so maybe there's your answer....?

Add to that though, the devices will continue to work as they are on the version that they are already on when they are no longer able to take new OS versions. Of course, wear and tear things may happen (battery life depletion, accidental damage), or carriers may change their technologies - but those things aren't planned obsolescence.

 

[Qbnkelt]

Uh, yeah.

Been living under a rock? Been happening for over 90 years now started in the automobile industry.

Here's one example -
Apple iPad 2 (2011) - Supported up to iOS10
Apple iPhone 4s (2011) - NOT supported up to iOS10

Both have same A5 chip. The iPad 2 came out earlier and was originally on iOS4. The iPhone 4s sold much greater. But Apple is aware iPhones are their bread and butter. Stops support for 4s. The iPad 2 continues on with more software updates to lag the device like iOS9 did to the A5 chip. If you truly believe Apple or others companies doesn't think of planned obsolescence, you should check out the e-waste in landfills. Al Gore is shaking his head right now and laughing at all of us from our ignorance.

Nah I live above ground. Not under bridges nor in bunkers. I also don't have aluminum hats nor do I follow Alex Jones.

Also not extrapolated to Xbox or cars or landfills.

Just iPhones. And the fact that my two year old iPhone 6 is working fine on iOS10. Sorry that doesn't match your narrative. But it is a fact.

 

[rui no onna]

Here's one example -
Apple iPad 2 (2011) - Supported up to iOS10
Apple iPhone 4s (2011) - NOT supported up to iOS10

Both have same A5 chip. The iPad 2 came out earlier and was originally on iOS4. The iPhone 4s sold much greater. But Apple is aware iPhones are their bread and butter. Stops support for 4s. The iPad 2 continues on with more software updates to lag the device like iOS9 did to the A5 chip. If you truly believe Apple or others companies doesn't think of planned obsolescence, you should check out the e-waste in landfills. Al Gore is shaking his head right now and laughing at all of us from our ignorance.

Your claim would be more believable if your example was actually true. None of the A5 devices are getting iOS 10. The iPad 2, iPad mini and iPhone 4S will only support up to iOS 9.3.5.

 

[jblagden]

Which is not what Apple is doing considering that I just updated my work issued two year old iPhone 6 to iOS10 and it's working perfectly fine.

What about the Macs which have RAM which is soldered to the Logic board and Solid State Drives which use a proprietary interface?

 

[Qbnkelt]

What about the Macs which have RAM which is soldered to the Logic board and Solid State Drives which use a proprietary interface?

A company protecting the integrity of their products for which they provide warranty is not so called planned obsolescence.

So I buy a Mac and I decide that I'm going to go and mod it and then I wreck it and then I go to Apple and claim that it's faulty equipment.....yah....

 

[MrBukey]

What about the Macs which have RAM which is soldered to the Logic board and Solid State Drives which use a proprietary interface?

Part of the Apple USP is end-to-end provision of the product, and that is part of what people buy Macs for - and that means Apple can better support them (through owner/user support, software guidance, and hardware maintenance).

Additionally it's to create the small, light products that the major portion of Apple customers want.... Something has to give - it's either size/weight or upgradeability.

Apple have made their choice on these things, and customers vote with their feet and wallets on whether they've made the right choice... Alternatives do exist for those that disagree with Apple's choices - and that's a good thing.

 

[jblagden]

A company protecting the integrity of their products for which they provide warranty is not so called planned obsolescence.

So I buy a Mac and I decide that I'm going to go and mod it and then I wreck it and then I go to Apple and claim that it's faulty equipment.....yah....

That’s not what I’m talking about. A simple RAM upgrade really doesn’t count as a modification. It’s only a modification now because Apple’s soldering it to the board now. But RAM is RAM, no matter where it comes from; it’ll work just fine. A RAM upgrade from another vendor won’t wreck your Mac or void its warranty.

The other thing is, what if you get a Mac with the standard 8 gigabytes of RAM and a year or two down the road, you start needing more RAM? Then you have to buy a whole new Mac instead of just being able to upgrade the RAM for $80. Would you rather spend $1,200 or more on a new Mac or just $100 on a RAM upgrade?

Soldering in the RAM makes it so you can’t make your Mac last longer by upgrading the RAM, which forces you to buy a new Mac. So, instead of getting 10 years out of a Mac, you’ll get 2-5 years. That kind of defeats one of the biggest reasons for buying a Mac: Longevity. At that rate, you might as well just build a Hackintosh, but then you have to do a lot of hacks and you have to make sure not to get any OS updates before checking www.tonymacx86.com.

 

[anthonymoody]

Most people with iPhone 5 and 6 series devices seem to be reporting that iOS 10 has improved performance if anything. Personally, I'm sometimes amazed by how much I still like my 6. It still feels like a new phone to me.

I agree. Have a 6+ and even though I've upgraded every 1-2 years previously, between the fact that the 6+ works surprisingly well with iOS 10 and the fact that the 7/7+ is more or less an incremental update (despite some thoughts to the contrary) I don't feel especially compelled right now.

 

[jblagden]

Part of the Apple USP is end-to-end provision of the product, and that is part of what people buy Macs for - and that means Apple can better support them (through owner/user support, software guidance, and hardware maintenance).

Additionally it's to create the small, light products that the major portion of Apple customers want.... Something has to give - it's either size/weight or upgradeability.

Apple have made their choice on these things, and customers vote with their feet and wallets on whether they've made the right choice... Alternatives do exist for those that disagree with Apple's choices - and that's a good thing.

Yeah, I’m not sure what I’m going to do when my late 2011 MacBook Pro croaks, which will probably be in 5 years. I’d rather not go over to Windows, at least not for my main machine - maybe just for gaming. And Linux really isn’t ideal since you can’t run iTunes and Microsoft Office on it. Though, I guess I could just buy an IBM Clone laptop and make it a Hackintosh, but I’m not sure I want to go through all of the hacks.

 

[Qbnkelt]

That’s not what I’m talking about. A simple RAM upgrade really doesn’t count as a modification. It’s only a modification now because Apple’s soldering it to the board now. But RAM is RAM, no matter where it comes from; it’ll work just fine. A RAM upgrade from another vendor won’t wreck your Mac or void its warranty.

The other thing is, what if you get a Mac with the standard 8 gigabytes of RAM and a year or two down the road, you start needing more RAM? Then you have to buy a whole new Mac instead of just being able to upgrade the RAM for $80. Would you rather spend $1,200 or more on a new Mac or just $100 on a RAM upgrade?

Soldering in the RAM makes it so you can’t make your Mac last longer by upgrading the RAM, which forces you to buy a new Mac. So, instead of getting 10 years out of a Mac, you’ll get 2-5 years. That kind of defeats one of the biggest reasons for buying a Mac: Longevity. At that rate, you might as well just build a Hackintosh, but then you have to do a lot of hacks and you have to make sure not to get any OS updates before checking www.tonymacx86.com.

If you're opening the machine to remove and change the memory you are modding the machine. There is no splitting hairs there. Warranties are voided if products are tampered with. That's not planned obsolescence, that's tempering with a machine and closing the warranty.

Personally I future proof with the understanding that any machine will be replaced with something bigger, faster the instant it will walk out the door. If I know that Apple machines are soldered but I can't stop myself from modding then I have to make a decision.

So I don't buy the cheapest configuraron. I don't buy a 128GB anything. I get something with a TB. And if I can't then I don't get a Mac.

This is exactly my decision point right now.

ALL machines go through the same.

So opening the machine and changing anything in it, is modding. Simple.

 

[TurboPGT!]

It is almost like some people just can't accept that Apple makes great products that people want, and that is why people upgrade. They have to find some malicious trick that nobody else apparently notices.

It is a riot.

 

[jblagden]

If you're opening the machine to remove and change the memory you are modding the machine. There is no splitting hairs there. Warranties are voided if products are tampered with. That's not planned obsolescence, that's tempering with a machine and closing the warranty.

Personally I future proof with the understanding that any machine will be replaced with something bigger, faster the instant it will walk out the door. If I know that Apple machines are soldered but I can't stop myself from modding then I have to make a decision.

So I don't buy the cheapest configuraron. I don't buy a 128GB anything. I get something with a TB. And if I can't then I don't get a Mac.

This is exactly my decision point right now.

ALL machines go through the same.

So opening the machine and changing anything in it, is modding. Simple.

When you have to desolder RAM from the logic board and solder new RAM onto it, that’s a mod. But when you take the old RAM out of the sockets and put new RAM into them, that’s not a mod; nothing had to be broken or soldered. It’s a very simple thing to do. By the way, upgrading the RAM on a Mac which has RAM sockets doesn’t void the warranty. The worst that will happen is that Apple will replace your third-party RAM with Apple’s own rebranded RAM (from some other company), and if you’re worried about that, you can just swap out the RAM before sending your Mac to Apple for service.

Upgrading the RAM and hard drive in say, my 2011 MacBook Pro are not mods because nothing has to be desoldered or broken to be able to do the upgrade. Apple even has instructions on how to upgrade the RAM: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201165

Upgrading the RAM and hard drive in my 2011 MacBook Pro doesn’t void the warranty because it’s not really a mod; I didn’t have to break, cut, remove or solder anything.

Not that I’m completely opposed to voiding a warranty (within reason, of course).

Why do so many Mac users think they’ll void the warranty by upgrading the RAM in a Mac which has RAM sockets?
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It is almost like some people just can't accept that Apple makes great products that people want, and that is why people upgrade. They have to find some malicious trick that nobody else apparently notices.

It is a riot.

Nah, a lot of people notice. It’s just that most people don’t know how to upgrade RAM and don’t want to do that themselves; if they get a RAM upgrade, they’ll take it to a shop to get the upgrade done. Upgrading the RAM just extends the life of the machine. Especially when you’re talking about a machine that costs twice as much as most folks would spend on a computer, and it’ll last ten years. Why should it only be useful for five years due to RAM limitations when it could be useful for ten years if it just had more RAM?

 

[MrBukey]

Upgrading RAM isn't a mod - if it's got sockets... It really is down to space, weight and money (in multiple facets). I get it. I wish we could upgrade RAM too, but in devices that are so small, it does make quite a relatively reasonable difference...

I can do much more with my MBP with 16GB RAM than I can with my Windows PC with 16GB RAM - and my MBP is my main driver, but it does have limitations. If I wanted the power and upgradeability (and could afford it), I'd get a Mac Pro.

 

[Mrbobb]

If you want to keep your iPhone, any electronics, as long as you can, subscribe to the school of, ONLY UPDATE (SOFTWARE) WHEN ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. Don't succumb to latest&greatest.

 

[Qbnkelt]

When you have to desolder RAM from the logic board and solder new RAM onto it, that’s a mod. But when you take the old RAM out of the sockets and put new RAM into them, that’s not a mod; nothing had to be broken or soldered. It’s a very simple thing to do. By the way, upgrading the RAM on a Mac which has RAM sockets doesn’t void the warranty. The worst that will happen is that Apple will replace your third-party RAM with Apple’s own rebranded RAM (from some other company), and if you’re worried about that, you can just swap out the RAM before sending your Mac to Apple for service.

Upgrading the RAM and hard drive in say, my 2011 MacBook Pro are not mods because nothing has to be desoldered or broken to be able to do the upgrade. Apple even has instructions on how to upgrade the RAM: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201165

Upgrading the RAM and hard drive in my 2011 MacBook Pro doesn’t void the warranty because it’s not really a mod; I didn’t have to break, cut, remove or solder anything.

Not that I’m completely opposed to voiding a warranty (within reason, of course).

Why do so many Mac users think they’ll void the warranty by upgrading the RAM in a Mac which has RAM sockets?

You are *modifying* the machine. It is a mod. You can call it what you wish and you can rationalise as you wish but you are altering a machine.

It is a mod.

If you're not against voiding warranties then that's cool. But don't call a duck a chicken because it's got feathers. Opening a machine and altering it is a mod.


And really......you expect a machine to last ten years???

 

[jblagden]

You are *modifying* the machine. It is a mod. You can call it what you wish and you can rationalise as you wish but you are altering a machine.

It is a mod.

If you're not against voiding warranties then that's cool. But don't call a duck a chicken because it's got feathers. Opening a machine and altering it is a mod.


And really......you expect a machine to last ten years???

1. How different is it than, say changing a tire? Or replacing the batteries in a remote? It’s just maintenance.
2. It’s not that I simply expect it to last ten years. Rather, it’s that I know that Macs last ten years. Sure, you can’t get the latest version of OS X after about 5 or 6 years, but aside from that, it’s perfectly functional for another five years.

 

[MrBukey]

If you want to keep your iPhone, any electronics, as long as you can, subscribe to the school of, ONLY UPDATE (SOFTWARE) WHEN ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. Don't succumb to latest&greatest.

Totally disagree. As someone that works within an IT security sphere, I'd say that you need to ensure you're patched up. That doesn't mean install the latest OSes necessarily (or firmware for some devices) - but where there's a security update released, install it. When security updates stop being released, time to upgrade the OS, or get a new device....
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If you're not against voiding warranties then that's cool. But don't call a duck a chicken because it's got feathers. Opening a machine and altering it is a mod.

Actually, in the UK upgrading a computer with upgrades like RAM, expansion cards, etc is legally considered an acceptable consumer upgrade, and legally won't void your warranty. If you do something stupid like force something not made for a PCI-E slot (as an example) into the slot, you will void the warranty. But it's not the upgrade that does that, it's the stupid action.

Most computers are made to be expansive - it such cases, it's not a mod. Where they aren't made for such things - like soldered RAM - then it would be a mod, and obviously would void warranty.

 

[01silver4]

If am not mistaken, I remember Tim Cook admitting to a very mild degree of planned obsolescence. He didn't use those word, but he was rather talking about how the apple watch is likely to las about 3 generations. I mean, even if he didn't admit it, it is there are at a certain degree. At some point, devices no longer receive iOS updates, or products are no longer serviced at the genius bar.

MY 42mm SS AW display is on its way out after 15 months of use my Citizen Eco Drive bought in 2013 for $650 with five years warranty is still going strong among others watches that i have. the thing is apple says they are the number 2 watch brand behind Rolex, but they won't last as long as these high end watches ROLEX CITEZN etc. I have come to believe that the the later tech gadget from apple are not made to last beyond two years, the older apple tech are more durable to me.

 

[GrindedDown]

MY 42mm SS AW display is on its way out after 15 months of use my Citizen Eco Drive bought in 2013 for $650 with five years warranty is still going strong among others watches that i have. the thing is apple says they are the number 2 watch brand behind Rolex, but they won't last as long as these high end watches ROLEX CITEZN etc. I have come to believe that the the later tech gadget from apple are not made to last beyond two years, the older apple tech are more durable to me.

Jeez, your Watch is already giving way? Or are you upgrading?

I agree that that is one thing that concerns me about the Apple Watch and making larger investments in it like getting the Edition or even Stainless is the longevity of the device. I feel rather confident they will last for several years, but I am far less confident than with virtually any other kind of Watch. Would be nice if Apple began offering things like a 5 year limited warranty (even for purchase) on the stainless and edition version of the watches.

Heck I have watched that are a decade old and work like new. Most well-built, traditional watches will last decades. The Apple watches won't come close.

Having said that, they also do far far more so there are definitely trade offs.

 

[jblagden]

Totally disagree. As someone that works within an IT security sphere, I'd say that you need to ensure you're patched up. That doesn't mean install the latest OSes necessarily (or firmware for some devices) - but where there's a security update released, install it. When security updates stop being released, time to upgrade the OS, or get a new device....
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Actually, in the UK upgrading a computer with upgrades like RAM, expansion cards, etc is legally considered an acceptable consumer upgrade, and legally won't void your warranty. If you do something stupid like force something not made for a PCI-E slot (as an example) into the slot, you will void the warranty. But it's not the upgrade that does that, it's the stupid action.

Most computers are made to be expansive - it such cases, it's not a mod. Where they aren't made for such things - like soldered RAM - then it would be a mod, and obviously would void warranty.

With security, Apple generally continues to release security updates for a few years. After that, I guess you could install Ubuntu or some other Linux distribution.

I’m glad someone agrees with me about simple nondestructive upgrades not voiding the warranty!