Is there a physical reason that the original iPhone and iPod touch can't run 4.0?

[firewood]

The original iPhone has the same RAM and processor speed as the iPhone 3G. Why the heck can't the original iPhone run the software if the iPhone 3G can?

The iPhone is thought to have 3 to 5 processor cores inside it. Touch, maybe 2 or 3. More than one CPU in the iPhone is an ARM core according to an EETimes report. The iPhone a small multi-processor system, and the OS install package includes kernel code for more than one of those processors. The application CPU in both the 1G and 3G runs at 4xx MHz and has 128 MB of RAM. Nobody (except Apple and the chip designers/vendors) knows how fast and how much memory the other CPU cores have in the 1G and 3G, or how different they might be.

If those other CPUs aren't the same, that's a strong technical reason why 4.0 support can't be ported to the 1st gen devices.

 

[thebez]

I had to leave earlier today after having a good laugh about how pointlessly complex your water heater must be. Now I'm back to finish my response to your post.

Are you going to be all pissed when you find out you can't run the latest linux distro on your microwave? Maybe your washing machine might be able to do it instead?

Yes, I'm absolutely pissed that I can't stream videos to my toaster.

I think 99% of first world people would see an iPhone as a true computer long before they thought of it as a microwave or washing machine.

If you have little money as it is, an iPhone is the LEAST of your worries. Let alone a data plan that goes along with it. Why are you even here? I love how people come here all whiny and then throw out the "I barely have money as it is" excuse.

DON'T BUY CRAP YOU CANT AFFORD. It's what's wrong with the world

THANKS FOR YELLING. IT REALLY SEEMS TO SHOW HOW MUCH SMARTER YOU ARE COMPARED TO ME.

I didn't say that I don't have enough money. I had plenty of money to buy my iPhone when I did, and I have plenty of money to go out and buy a 3GS tomorrow if I want to. I have enough money because I have forced myself to live within my means. I don't have a brand new iMac or Macbook, and I don't have the desire to support a company that is obviously doing everything it can to push people into upgrading every two years. I also don't have a water heater with bluetooth, USB, and WiFi. What does your water heater do with all of that stuff anyway?

 

[skottichan]

I had to leave earlier today after having a good laugh about how pointlessly complex your water heater must be. Now I'm back to finish my response to your post.



Yes, I'm absolutely pissed that I can't stream videos to my toaster.

I think 99% of first world people would see an iPhone as a true computer long before they thought of it as a microwave or washing machine.



THANKS FOR YELLING. IT REALLY SEEMS TO SHOW HOW MUCH SMARTER YOU ARE COMPARED TO ME.

I didn't say that I don't have enough money. I had plenty of money to buy my iPhone when I did, and I have plenty of money to go out and buy a 3GS tomorrow if I want to. I have enough money because I have forced myself to live within my means. I don't have a brand new iMac or Macbook, and I don't have the desire to support a company that is obviously doing everything it can to push people into upgrading every two years. I also don't have a water heater with bluetooth, USB, and WiFi. What does your water heater do with all of that stuff anyway?

Actually, all they're doing is offering software for a new phone.

I'm curious, did you have this much of a fit when Snow Leopard was announced to be Intel only?

 

[fullmanfullninj]

I've just read through some of this and I think a reasonable answer is that Apple just doesn't want to keep old hardware alive. It's outdated and needs to go. Simple as that.

I mean, think of Windows 98 and 2000. We don't see computers manufactured with that stuff anymore cause it's old. There aren't computers being actively manufactured with Intel P3 processors anymore.

Of course it's available and obtainable, but it needs to be obtained through other means.
What I mean by that (sorry it's 1AM and i'm a bit delusional..) is that I bet Apple is announcing that it will not be possible on the iPhone 2G and old iPod Touch, but it certainly will be possible.

Like someone pointed out, 3G is essentially the same as 2G (in terms of CPU and RAM). If the 3G can run it, the 2G can as well. It's just a limit Apple is placing on the OS. So it will be cracked for sure, I believe.
Well. Depending on how large the population of 2G and original iTouch (if anyone bags on me for saying itouch...LOL), dev team may or may not consider it. But honestly, I think it'd be a simple fix.

So to answer sweetly: there probably is no hardware or physical limitation.

 

[thebez]

I'm curious, did you have this much of a fit when Snow Leopard was announced to be Intel only?

I wouldn't call my current behavior a fit, but no, I was neither surprised nor let down by SL being Intel only. What would have disgusted me is if they had said that SL would not run on Intel based Macs with combo drives.

 

[hamlinspahn]

Why?

Apple doesn't support OS X on an Apple IIe either bastards.

 

[skottichan]

I wouldn't call my current behavior a fit, but no, I was neither surprised nor let down by SL being Intel only. What would have disgusted me is if they had said that SL would not run on Intel based Macs with combo drives.

So your whole rant about planned obsolescence is only about cell phones, which is an entire industry based around 12-24 month turn arounds. Most importantly, it's not like your phone's going to be rendered as a brick when OS 4.0 is released, or did I miss that part of Steve's media event.

It's cool that you expect a longer support timeline, if rather unrealistic to expect, since it's the nature of the industry. My Samsung Propel has gotten zero software upgrades and sold for (and was supported for) a little over a year.

I understand your frustration that you won't get the newest bells and whistles, but you were never promised forever. So, if you go to WinMo, Palm or Android, don't expect them to kiss you on the lips either when they're fisting you, it's part of the business. At least Apple's sweet enough to lube up first (ie: supporting the 3G/2nd Gen Touch).

 

[cjmillsnun]

iPhone and iPhone 3G are essentially the same phone but for some reason, the iPhone 3G isn't too slow to run 4.0, but the original iPhone can't handle it.

Just like Aggie said... It's all about money... Not about whether it's technically possible or not.

Where did Apple say the original iPhone can't handle it? What they have said is that they aren't going to support it. The two are different things.

 

[cjmillsnun]

This might be hard to implement seeing as how there will be no iPhone1,1_4.0.... OS being released. You'll need to make the OS of a newer iPhone model SGold 2 baseband aware because 4.0 would not carry the drivers to help the 1st Gen communicate to it's baseband. That and other 1st gen specific driver issues.

Aha a technical issue. Could it be that to drive an old baseband (in the original iPhone) requires more resources (ram) than the newer one in the 3G?

 

[Carniphage]

The Reasons

1) Commercial - Apple want to you to buy a new phone - not hang on to your old one.

2) Commercial - the 24 month subscription period (how Apple's accounting procedure recognises iPhone sales revenue) means there is only a two year window to provide free functional upgrades. They could charge for OS upgrades on old phones but will not.

3) Technical - The multi-tasking element of OS4 is not achievable on older hardware.

4) Resources/Commercial - The development effort required to support a large number of older model devices is counter-productive. Why invest resources in giving customers a reason to not upgrade.

I think Apple are unique in the industry by consistently delivering two years of free functional updates per device sold.

Why isn't it three years, or four years?
Because at the outset Apple said the lifetime of the device was two years.

C.

 

[Bat Commander]

You guys do realize that the 1st gen can generally only keep 1 3rd party app in the background. It's basically useless because of the anemic RAM. I realize that OS 4.0 doesn't keep the entire app running in the background as backgrounder does but I seriously doubt it would have the horsepower to deal with it. I'll be very surprised if the dev team gets it to work at all.

You realize that the iPhone 3G can only keep one third party app in the background. It's basically useless because of the anemic RAM. I realize that 4.0 doesn't keep the entire app running in the background as backgrounder does, but I seriously doubt it would have the horsepower to deal with it. In fact, the iPhone 3G can't multitask according to Apple.

3) Technical - The multi-tasking element of OS4 is not achievable on older hardware.

I agree with your whole post except for this part. The multitasking element in 4.0 is not achievable on a brand new iPhone 3G (which Apple does still sell) either.

 

[kdarling]

They never promised me multitasking, video recording or Bluetooth keyboard support.

The fact is, it was widely assumed that Apple would eventually add those things, since they were common elsewhere. The same happens with WebOS and Android, which are also relatively immature systems needing updates.

Even you have assumed the same thing in several previous posts, such as this one:

They are controll freaks. But we can always hope for future software updates to allow some more customizing features.

Exactly. We all hope that the features we want will eventually be added via software updates, whether promised or not.

Fortunately, historically it has already happened quite often. If all we had ever gotten was security updates, the iPhone would be boring.

 

[Pared]

The fact is, it was widely assumed that Apple would eventually add those things, since they were common elsewhere. The same happens with WebOS and Android, which are also relatively immature systems needing updates.

And they did. On the hardware that can run them well.

There's not much to argue here.

Have you ever used a PC running Windows XP with 256 MB of RAM and a P4? It's possible, right? No one is denying it isn't.

Now, would you consider that a system you'd want to use browsing the web? Remember, it STILL can do it.... but the hardware would pretty much choke on whatever you're trying to do.

 

[Applejuiced]

The fact is, it was widely assumed that Apple would eventually add those things, since they were common elsewhere. The same happens with WebOS and Android, which are also relatively immature systems needing updates.

Even you have assumed the same thing in several previous posts, such as this one:



Exactly. We all hope that the features we want will eventually be added via software updates, whether promised or not.

Fortunately, historically it has already happened quite often. If all we had ever gotten was security updates, the iPhone would be boring.

Yeah ok, if you say so.
3 years ago noone was expecting to get updates like that and keep getting them every single year. We didnt even know what and if Apple would release new stuff to the phone OS.
We bought it the way it was for what it was and it was a great phone.
But obviously hardware has its limitation and at a point in time support for older stuff stops. Figured you'd know that.

 

[Hutch1]

I don't think the right word is assumed, it's more like you took a gamble that they would get you the features that you thought you should have. Guess what if you took that gamble I guess you lost, it's now time to double down throw into the pot and get another device that doesn't meet your needs and you can all whine and bitch about.

 

[thebez]

So your whole rant about planned obsolescence is only about cell phones, which is an entire industry based around 12-24 month turn arounds. Most importantly, it's not like your phone's going to be rendered as a brick when OS 4.0 is released, or did I miss that part of Steve's media event.

It's cool that you expect a longer support timeline, if rather unrealistic to expect, since it's the nature of the industry. My Samsung Propel has gotten zero software upgrades and sold for (and was supported for) a little over a year.

I understand your frustration that you won't get the newest bells and whistles, but you were never promised forever. So, if you go to WinMo, Palm or Android, don't expect them to kiss you on the lips either when they're fisting you, it's part of the business. At least Apple's sweet enough to lube up first (ie: supporting the 3G/2nd Gen Touch).

I expected support for as long as the almost identical iPhone 3G had it.

You are right though - I was a fool to expect Apple to treat its customers better than the other guys. Lesson learned. Now I see that some of the other guys have hardware that is just as good and costs less. Since Apple is treating me the same (actually worse in my opinion) I guess I will spend my money elsewhere.

 

[Pared]

You are right though - I was a fool to expect Apple to treat its customers better than the other guys.

They already have. You're just too blind to realize it.

Add another one to the "me me me I want it now" generation.

 

[AbSoluTc]

So your whole rant about planned obsolescence is only about cell phones, which is an entire industry based around 12-24 month turn arounds. Most importantly, it's not like your phone's going to be rendered as a brick when OS 4.0 is released, or did I miss that part of Steve's media event.

It's cool that you expect a longer support timeline, if rather unrealistic to expect, since it's the nature of the industry. My Samsung Propel has gotten zero software upgrades and sold for (and was supported for) a little over a year.

I understand your frustration that you won't get the newest bells and whistles, but you were never promised forever. So, if you go to WinMo, Palm or Android, don't expect them to kiss you on the lips either when they're fisting you, it's part of the business. At least Apple's sweet enough to lube up first (ie: supporting the 3G/2nd Gen Touch).

I love this post!

 

[AbSoluTc]

I had to leave earlier today after having a good laugh about how pointlessly complex your water heater must be. Now I'm back to finish my response to your post.



Yes, I'm absolutely pissed that I can't stream videos to my toaster.

I think 99% of first world people would see an iPhone as a true computer long before they thought of it as a microwave or washing machine.



THANKS FOR YELLING. IT REALLY SEEMS TO SHOW HOW MUCH SMARTER YOU ARE COMPARED TO ME.

I didn't say that I don't have enough money. I had plenty of money to buy my iPhone when I did, and I have plenty of money to go out and buy a 3GS tomorrow if I want to. I have enough money because I have forced myself to live within my means. I don't have a brand new iMac or Macbook, and I don't have the desire to support a company that is obviously doing everything it can to push people into upgrading every two years. I also don't have a water heater with bluetooth, USB, and WiFi. What does your water heater do with all of that stuff anyway?

See below..

Call me a whiner if you want, but I refuse to spend what little income I have on products from a company that engages in planned obsolescence that is so completely obvious.

People with "plenty of money" don't say "what little income I have". Maybe a poor choice of words? I don't know. I am going by what you said. I don't know who you are and your just another person on the net. I go buy what I read. If money is not an issue, you shouldn't bring it up in the discussion.

BTW - if it's so "completely obvious" why did you still buy into it? Lol.

Apple is not to blame here. It's the way the MOBILE phone market works. It always has. Nobody raised a stink when companies were putting out new models ever 6 months to a year. The only reason they are now, is 1 - they paid much more for it and 2 - they think just because it's a "computer" it should be upgradeable to the end of time. Umm no.

It's a mobile communications device - even they have their limits. Three long years for a phone with updates every year is EXCELLENT and more than any other manufacturer out there.

Count your blessings.

 

[Carniphage]

The fact is, it was widely assumed that Apple would eventually add those things, since they were common elsewhere. The same happens with WebOS and Android, which are also relatively immature systems needing updates.

Not entirely so.
There's still a huge number of Android devices stuck on 1.5 because the carriers are simply not motivated in upgrading these users.

For example:
http://www.eurodroid.com/2009/12/samsung-galaxy-i7500-users-stuck-on-android-1-5-for-ever/

Apple has consistently provided more than two years of free updates (not just bug fixes but functional additions to the software)
It was able to do this, without violating the law, by changing its accounting methods.

You might know: Has any other handset manufacturer done this?

I'd risk saying that the people who have three year old Apple handsets don't actually realise how well they have been treated.

C.

 

[skottichan]

I love this post!

Thank you, my brother, the writer says I have a way of painting a mental image.


I do feel sympathy for older people, the world has become a widely consumerist society, so it's got to be hard for them to accept. Tho, the whole "Apple doesn't like me anymore" is kind of sad, Apple's a company, they exist to make money, not cater to the ever smaller numbers of the people who want to cling to the old tech and old ways.

 

[outcastrc]

Peoples expectations are only as large as Apples promises... Apple changed the way the game is played, and a little follow through would be nice...

The 2g I can understand, however it would be nice to see even just a pay for update option. Common sense says they can run OS4 just fine.

The 3g is getting the major brush off as I see it. Apple keeps saying they'll do OS updates for 2 years. Considering the 3g is still being sold thats a lot of updates still to come. I can understand them removing feature the 3g can't physically do but removing features that it can do is a low blow... Even if it slows the 3g down then there should be an option to turn it off by the user.

I can't wait to see what they don't include next time...

 

[bks691]

Yeah ok, if you say so.
3 years ago noone was expecting to get updates like that and keep getting them every single year. We didnt even know what and if Apple would release new stuff to the phone OS.
We bought it the way it was for what it was and it was a great phone.
But obviously hardware has its limitation and at a point in time support for older stuff stops. Figured you'd know that.

One would think he would know that. Maybe he's just to wrapped up in his "palm pixi"?

 

[kdarling]

3 years ago noone was expecting to get updates like that and keep getting them every single year. We didnt even know what and if Apple would release new stuff to the phone OS.

Sure, no one knew how long updates would continue. However, unless you have an incredible memory gap, you must acknowledge that it was widely and firmly assumed that updates would fill in much of the missing functionality.

Not only did bigtime Apple fans like Mossberg say so, but so did Jobs himself.

The only mistaken assumption, was that it would not take long to get things like copy & paste or homepage backgrounds or Bluetooth keyboard support (still not allowed). Everyone thought those... and heck, Flash too... would be almost an immediate update.

We bought it the way it was for what it was and it was a great phone.
But obviously hardware has its limitation and at a point in time support for older stuff stops. Figured you'd know that.

Wow. I never said anything about ending support. That's your comment.

What I said was that you could not bash others for saying that they expected any updates when they bought the device. We all expected them. That's all.

Apple has consistently provided more than two years of free updates (not just bug fixes but functional additions to the software)It was able to do this, without violating the law, by changing its accounting methods. You might know: Has any other handset manufacturer done this?

As you know, most handset manufacturers provide updates free to the user by charging the carriers instead. That gets around the SOX charging problem in the USA.

However, the difference is that the mature handset OSs such as WinMo and RIM do not need the constant updates that the newer OSs such as iPOS, Android and WebOS do.

The established OS phones come with video capture, voice command, full Bluetooth, etc ad nauseum. They don't need major updates for those things. Moreover, developers are able to replace or at least customize parts of the UI on their own... again, obviating the need for many updates.

All that said, I think it's terrific that Apple provides updates outside of carrier control.

One would think he would know that. Maybe he's just to wrapped up in his "palm pixi"?

I'm sure you're not trying to act childish and rude. Perhaps you're really trying to be funny and simply failing at it.

First, it's my wife's Pixi. Second, I use multiple types of mobile OSs both in my work and personal life, from WebOS to WinMo to iPOS to RIM. (Haven't programmed for Android yet, but intend to soon.)

This means I can actually talk about their pros and cons intelligently, instead of just repeating fanboy myths. Facts are so much more fun!

 

[Applejuiced]

Sure, no one knew how long updates would continue. However, unless you have an incredible memory gap, you must acknowledge that it was widely and firmly assumed that updates would fill in much of the missing functionality.

Not only did bigtime Apple fans like Mossberg say so, but so did Jobs himself.

The only mistaken assumption, was that it would not take long to get things like copy & paste or homepage backgrounds or Bluetooth keyboard support (still not allowed). Everyone thought those... and heck, Flash too... would be almost an immediate update.

I never remember Apple promising any added features for the future when the 2G iphone was released.
When the 1st iphone came out there was no appstore and no future promises that the phone will get this or that sometime.
Maybe a year or more later when 2.0 came out with the SDK and the official appstore things started to roll.
You know what they say about assumptions though.....
People buy a device for what its features are and what it can do for them at the time of purchase. Not for what may be comming or maybe not down the road 3 years later. The logic of buy it now and hope in the future it will be better to fit your needs in nonsense IMO.