iTunes 8.2.1 Reportedly Breaks Palm Pre Syncing

[arjaosx]

Not going to work!

This argument and the whole Psystar thing is not going to end. There are just some people who will be inept at the concept of intellectual property and moral values so they will see as nothing wrong an entirely unethical thing to do just as long as it suits them.

 

[millertime]

Wow - reading this thread make me embarrassed to be an Apple fan

I can't believe the fanboys on this forum. Let's get this straight: I've got a Mac desktop, a Mac laptop (and I update each every two years), I've got a apple cinema display on my windows machine (have to use Windows for work), an ipod, an iPod touch, and an iPod shuffle.

Obviously, I'm a huge fan of Apple products. Horror of horrors, I just bought a Palm Pre. Gasp . . . I guess I'm a heretic. I believe it is a superior operating system. I say that as a huge iPhone fan. But it is a great OS and I believe that Apple will be adding Pre features soon. When it comes to great technology, I'm agnostic as I believe everyone with a brain should be.
Given that all of my media libraries are on iTunes, why do this to Apple fans like me? Oh, I know why - b/c Steve Jobs is mad at John Rubenstien for going to work for Palm, and everyone knows you don't cross Steve Jobs. But really, was this necessary? All it does it is *** off Mac users and iTunes users that happens to like the Pre as a phone while still loving other Apple products. All it does is sour an Apple fan like me who has been telling people for years that Apple is nothing like Microsoft, etc.

Wow. Huge step backward, Apple. It was petty and unnecessary.

 

[SoSII]

That's not what Microsoft did, they were trying to force people to use Internet Explorer in Windows, and the DOJ took them to the cleaners for it. Apple is trying to force people to use an iPhone/iPod in iTunes, and hopefully the DOJ will take them to the cleaners as well.

I have to disagree here! The difference is that Apple aren't trying to prevent people using iTunes equivalents (there aren't any but that's not their fault). They are just saying 'our software for use with with our devices - dont like it then write your own!". They don't have to force people to use iTunes in windows, people just download it themselves.

ps. I also don't think Apple have covered themselves with glory by doing this. Sort of makes it look like they think Pre maybe a big problem for iPhone sales. Nonetheless it is their prerogative to do this I think, just a bit mealy-mouthed.

 

[Goona]

Thats not up to Microsoft. All they need to do is support the USB architecture. Palm was transmitting a invalid SID to iTunes. Windows has no way of determine the difference if the SID's are incorrectly reported.

I actually meant Zune Desktop?

 

[Tommigun]

When Apple locks out competitors you hail them...

But what would have happened if Microsoft had locked out anything related to Apple? You would have cried 'anticompetitive actions' so loudly that earth would have spun out of it's orbit...

It's kinda incredible that Apple locking out apps from it's app store (at will) and stuff like this is, according to you guys, a good thing.

No company has EVER been as anticompetitive as Apple.
I TRULY regret buying my iMac as you guys make me look like you zealots.

 

[Goona]

This argument and the whole Psystar thing is not going to end. There are just some people who will be inept at the concept of intellectual property and moral values so they will see as nothing wrong an entirely unethical thing to do just as long as it suits them.

What do you expect, we live in a world where morals and intellectual property is irrelevant. With that amount of music and movies being stolen on the web, it's not suprising.

 

[dragossh]

This argument and the whole Psystar thing is not going to end. There are just some people who will be inept at the concept of intellectual property and moral values so they will see as nothing wrong an entirely unethical thing to do just as long as it suits them.

What intellectual property did Palm stole? A string is not intellectual property.

I actually meant Zune Desktop?

Why all this focus on Zune Desktop? Don’t tell me it’s because it’s convenient to show a player made by Microsoft that works only with Microsoft hardware and overlooking Windows Media Player, another app made by Microsoft that works with 3rd party hardware.

I TRULY regret buying my iMac as you guys make me look like you zealots.

Just enjoy your Apple products and don’t mind them. Next time buy something better (if it exists) and don’t tell people Apple is this cool company that has the consumers’ best interests at heart. That would be Google at best.

 

[Beric]

This argument and the whole Psystar thing is not going to end. There are just some people who will be inept at the concept of intellectual property and moral values so they will see as nothing wrong an entirely unethical thing to do just as long as it suits them.

I own every piece of software on my computers. However, I have a problem with EULA's that dictate your life.

 

[Boneoh]

Of course If someone like Apple did try and do it, MS would change how their API's and application framework operated to simply stop them - and they would be in the right to do so. MS doesn't stop the Crossover/WINE project because its very limited in application and a small player - not worth their effort. Of course the more prominent they get, the aggressive MS will be to stop them.

Back in the early 1990's, the MS phrase for DOS was "It ain't done 'til Lotus won't run!"

 

[APPLENEWBIE]

QUESTION: From an operational/security standpoint, is there any good justification for Apple's actions here? For instance, is there anyway that a "bad palm" could introduce malware into the iTunes universe?

Or, maybe, apple just does not want to have to consider what other companies want, as it would add to apples workload? Make it harder to continue to improve the product? just generally be a hassle? Other reasonable ideas?

 

[Goona]

When Apple locks out competitors you hail them...

But what would have happened if Microsoft had locked out anything related to Apple? You would have cried 'anticompetitive actions' so loudly that earth would have spun out of it's orbit...

It's kinda incredible that Apple locking out apps from it's app store (at will) and stuff like this is, according to you guys, a good thing.

No company has EVER been as anticompetitive as Apple.
I TRULY regret buying my iMac as you guys make me look like you zealots.

Yeah they have been so anticompetitive that they have been fined billions.

 

[RidleyGriff]

When Apple locks out competitors you hail them...

Please explain how Apple has locked out competitors.

Can you still transfer your mp3s to your Pre, only via a different mechanism (drag-or-drop)?

What about using the Pre with iTunes, via 3rd Party software (DoubleTwist)?

You can?

Hmm. That doesn't sound like locking people out to me.

 

[daneoni]

Very anti-competitive, its not like the device was syncing iTunes purchased content...only media (which could be from CD/Amazon) which happened to have been imported to iTunes

 

[jd125p]

What is apple really loosing?

Its not like apple banned all pre users from itunes all together, anyone excited about itunes syncing on a pre was probably a fan of the ITMS in the first place. Does this mean pre users will all of a sudden stop buying music and movies from itunes just because its one step harder to sync it?

Anyways good move apple keepin palms dirty hands out of their baby Itunes crib

 

[pdjudd]

Does iTunes still support these players? Then it’s not iPod-only.

I never asserted that it was meant for the iPod only. I have satated that Palm is duping iTnes to think that it is the iPod which clearly was not its purpose based oh what has been said about the USB consortium and its granting of exclusive control over UID's.

As I sad, it appears some players still work, others do not - but again since the players are years old and no longer being sold, their support is clearly legacy.

The Sync engine that the iPod uses was built for the iPod, before that, they (including the iPods) used iSync.

This obviously predates Windows compatibility since Windows doesn't have the iSync framework and does use the iPod framework. None of the Players that Apple lists work in iTunes on the PC side, because they were never intended to use the sync system that the iPods use. Heck, before iTunes was made Apple relied on a official support from another company (whose name I forget). But that support was official and sanctioned - until iTunes for Windows came out and changed the sync framework right around the release of iTunes 4.3 (I think)

In short, there are a few sync systems that Apple uses on the Mac for different purposes and some share similarities: iSync, Sync Services (which supplants iSync), and the iTunes Sync. On the Windows side for Apple is just the iTunes Sync framework.

 

[Goona]

What intellectual property did Palm stole? A string is not intellectual property.



Why all this focus on Zune Desktop? Don’t tell me it’s because it’s convenient to show a player made by Microsoft that works only with Microsoft hardware and overlooking Windows Media Player, another app made by Microsoft that works with 3rd party hardware.



Just enjoy your Apple products and don’t mind them. Next time buy something better (if it exists) and don’t tell people Apple is this cool company that has the consumers’ best interests at heart. That would be Google at best.

What's wrong with mentioning the Zune or maybe it's because it shuts down all the arguments people here are making.

 

[nagromme]

When Apple locks out competitors you hail them...

But what would have happened if Microsoft had locked out anything related to Apple? You would have cried 'anticompetitive actions' so loudly that earth would have spun out of it's orbit...

It's kinda incredible that Apple locking out apps from it's app store (at will) and stuff like this is, according to you guys, a good thing.

No company has EVER been as anticompetitive as Apple.
I TRULY regret buying my iMac as you guys make me look like you zealots.

A lot of anti-Apple zealots are misunderstanding the thread, or else not fully reading it. Apple didn't lock the Pre out of iTunes.

I'm sure the Pre will work with iTunes again--and this time, Pre will do it the SUPPORTED way that Apple offered all along: XML. (And in the meantime, drag-and-drop works too.) Palm screwed up, and the weird thing is that they knew it at the time.

Don't assume the situation is as simple as the first few posts--that too is a form of zealotry.

 

[dragossh]

Please explain how Apple has locked out competitors.

Can you still transfer your mp3s to your Pre, only via a different mechanism (drag-or-drop)?

What about using the Pre with iTunes, via 3rd Party software (DoubleTwist)?

You can?

Hmm. That doesn't sound like locking people out to me.

1. Apple doesn’t make DoubleTwist.
2. Pre works with drag&drop due to its OS, not due to Apple’s technical merit. You can plug a Pre into a FreeDOS system and still put things on it.
3. iTunes used to work with the Pre via an iPod simulation by the Pre. Apple broke that intentionally. That sounds like anti-competitive to me and telling people “You can’t use iTunes to sync if you don’t use our hardware.”

What's wrong with mentioning the Zune or maybe it's because it shuts down all the arguments people here are making.

It’s wrong because there IS a media player from Microsoft that WORKS with 3rd party hardware. And the point you’re making is: “Microsoft has an app that works only with Zune. The same as Apple.” The problem is that Media Player is also in Windows, so your argument becomes moot.

 

[schalkse]

The stupidity and short-sightedness in this thread is sad.

Apple is using their might in one market - media management, to influence and knock down competitors in another market.

This is just what Microsoft have done in the past, and got a slap on the wrist for.

It really isn't in Apple's interests to go through a monopoly trial, and Europe has already shown it is willing to fine companies vast amounts for acting in ways that actively harm consumers.

Apple should have the balls to let competitors in the mobile arena utilise its systems in the software arena, instead of acting like the petulant bully boy it is with this contemptuous and deliberate blocking of the Pre.

Your post is the perfect example of what you started your post with.
There is a HUGE difference between what MS is doing and what Apple is doing now. MS forced ppl into using IE to browse the web. Apple NEVER did such a thing. MS forced ppl in to using mediaplayer and even made sure that a lot of plugins and codecs would not work. Apple never did such a thing.

Apple was the first to ask the industry openly to dump DRM. The first to sell DRM-free music, JUST to give ppl more freedom to play music on whatever they want to play it. NOBODY forces you anything.

Who are you going to blame if a PRE gets bricked while syncing because of using itunes? Apple? Because they dont use some kind op open standard?
If so... then why the hell do we need the economy? Why not have everything for free?

What ppl like you are saying is like putting your own drink in a cola bottle and blaming cola for not putting your ingredients on the label.

I realy have enough of those pot growing globalists.

 

[Hmm]

3. iTunes used to work with the Pre via an iPod simulation by the Pre. Apple broke that intentionally. That sounds like anti-competitive to me and telling people “You can’t use iTunes to sync if you don’t use our hardware."

I think it's just telling people "You can't pretend you're an iPod when you're not really an iPod."

 

[windywoo]

Apple was the first to ask the industry openly to dump DRM. The first to sell DRM-free music, JUST to give ppl more freedom to play music on whatever they want to play it.

The entirety of your post was relentless propaganda but this is the cherry on top of the fib cake.

 

[jdechko]

3. iTunes used to work with the Pre via an iPod simulation by the Pre. Apple broke that intentionally. That sounds like anti-competitive to me and telling people “You can’t use iTunes to sync if you don’t use our hardware."

I'll give you the first two parts. But as of right now, what I think Apple is saying is "we don't care if you use iTunes to sync, but don't pretend to be an iPod when you're not." If Palm comes up with another way to sync to iTunes that doesn't pretend to be an iPod, that's cool, and I hope Apple's cool with it. But if Palm creates a new way and it's blocked by Apple, then I think we can come down on Apple.

 

[dragossh]

There is a HUGE difference between what MS is doing and what Apple is doing now. MS forced ppl into using IE to browse the web. Apple NEVER did such a thing. MS forced ppl in to using mediaplayer and even made sure that a lot of plugins and codecs would not work. Apple never did such a thing.

There is NO difference between what Apple is doing and what Microsoft has done. Microsoft forced people into using IE to browse the web, Apple forces people into using their hardware to be able to sync with iTunes. Apple made sure the Pre would not work. Sounds similar?

My point is, no software should be tied to hardware unless required. And there is no technical requirement for iTunes to be tied to iPod and iPhone.

 

[schalkse]

You all need to brush up on your Apple history.

iTunes came out before the iPod, almost a year earlier actually. iTunes could indeed sync with multiple players out there.



So, no. Apple didnt "build iTunes for the iPod", you guys are dead wrong about that. They just turned into uptight ******s after the iPod really started selling in 2003 & started slowly blocking other 3rd party players until it became what it is today.

And who is keepng you from using other software then iTunes to manage your music?

 

[pdjudd]

When Apple locks out competitors you hail them...

Where has Apple said that Palm cannot:
1) develop their own sync program that utilizes SyncServices
2) Cannot access the iTunes Library XML like many programs can

But what would have happened if Microsoft had locked out anything related to Apple? You would have cried 'anticompetitive actions' so loudly that earth would have spun out of it's orbit...

I doubt that they could have done such a thing without being sued. However Apple is not in any way shape or form stopping Palm for developing software for the Mac. Show me proof that Palm has been stopped from developing for the Mac. Show me some proof that Apple has denied access to it Application tools. They have not. Microsoft did try and stop Apple software before, (ironically they stole Apple's code too), but they could not stop Apple (nor anybody else) from developing Apple software for Windows. As long as the development framework is lawfully obtained and legally agreed to by the terms it was obtained under, there isn't anything that MS can do.

Of course MS hasn't tried to kill an Apple product since they wanted Apple to "knife the baby" (quicktime) well over a decade ago. They failed at that.

It's kinda incredible that Apple locking out apps from it's app store (at will) and stuff like this is, according to you guys, a good thing.

People engage in that development path and buy into that with full knowledge and consent. That is not hidden