iTunes 8.2.1 Reportedly Breaks Palm Pre Syncing

[pdjudd]

Im more curious to see how the Justice Department reacts to Apple's continued anti-competitive practices...

Well, once a case is opened by the Justice department, we will know. So far that hasn't happened and the last time anybody tried to call Apple a Monopoly (see Psystar - that was their first suit) the case got dismissed.

EDIT: I don't have much faith after the Microsoft case.

 

[peestandingup]

You all need to brush up on your Apple history.

iTunes came out before the iPod, almost a year earlier actually. iTunes could indeed sync with multiple players out there.

MACWORLD EXPO, SAN FRANCISCO—January 9, 2001

Apple Introduces iTunes — World’s Best and Easiest To Use Jukebox Software

*download songs to popular MP3 players from Rio and Creative Labs with plug-and-play simplicity with no extra software or complicated driver installations required.

So, no. Apple didnt "build iTunes for the iPod", you guys are dead wrong about that. They just turned into uptight ******s after the iPod really started selling in 2003 & started slowly blocking other 3rd party players until it became what it is today.

 

[DougB541]

*facepalm* This has nothing to do with music. How could you think that?

This has to do with Palm being too lazy to write their own software for the Pre and use an iTunes exploit instead.

What has it to do with being lazy??

The Pre does drag and drop...but there are a large amount of people who won't use anything other than iTunes ever again....you and I both know that.


This way tossing them a bone....they can continue doing the sync for all older versions of iTunes. Either that, or download Doubletwist which imports your music from iTunes and allows you to sync to multiple devices.

Palm making their own stand-alone sync is pointless.

 

[Hattig]

Has Apple ever said that people cannot use the iTunes Library XML file?

Does that hold calendar, email, notes, and contact information?

Does iSync sync music (or any of the above in a reasonable manner - I've never got iSync to work, it usually just hangs)?

Syncing services are now an expected part of an operating system, shame that Apple doesn't want to set some defacto standards itself by making something usable by third parties.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I, for one, couldn't care less that I can't use .exe files on my computer.

/facepalm

irrelevant. Locking put the Pre really doesn't affect much of anyone. Everyone expected it.

 

[NT1440]

I dont get why palm would have even touted the capability in the first place seeing as it was obvious that Apple would close this flaw. Relying on a hack as part of a touted feature? Come on Palm, really?

 

[mygoldens]

Apple!?!?

How could you Apple break the only thing the Palm Pre (sorry excuse for a phone) had going for it!

 

[Sehnsucht]

Because Apple said it wasn't?

Until they obviously changed their minds.

All those MP3 players are OLD and NO LONGER SOLD.

Apple used to license Mac clones, 'member? And now they don't.

 

[Goona]

That would be funny if the phone was selling poorly.


But now its just dumb.

Can you give us official sales for the Pre?

 

[GimmeSlack12]

Anyone figure Palm was only using iTunes to buy some time on the development of their own software? Palm practically invited this iTunes update.

 

[DStaal]

I don't get people bashing the Pre as a horrible phone that no one's using: Newsflash for you guys: It's selling out as fast as stores can get it, and the reviews all rave. It may not be as good as the iPhone... maybe. (And as for apps: How many apps were there for the iPhone when it came out? Zero, if I remember correctly...)

Anyway, that's irrelevant. As is the argument that Apple shouldn't have to work to support third parties: They didn't. They did work to break a third party. Which is just mean and petty.

Oh well. MissingSync's music sycing is better than iTune's anyway.

 

[DougB541]

Can you give us official sales for the Pre?

Not until they release their official numbers....but find one analyst or report that the Pre is selling poorly.

I'd be rather impressed.

Estimates are they are moving 30-50k a week since launch. (while supply constrained)

 

[nagromme]

You all need to brush up on your Apple history.

iTunes came out before the iPod, almost a year earlier actually. iTunes could indeed sync with multiple players out there.



So, no. Apple didnt "build iTunes for the iPod", you guys are dead wrong about that. They just turned into uptight ******s after the iPod really started selling in 2003 & started slowly blocking other 3rd party players until it became what it is today.

A history correction:

They didn't "slowly block" other players, they simply didn't spend time/money adding NEW players to the list of those that were originally supported by SoundJam, the app that Apple bought and then evolved under the iTunes name. Players that act like those really old players will STILL sync with iTunes (I have a friend who does this). They were never blocked, and Palm could probably have gone that route--if they didn't mind their Pre showing up as some very old and limited device.

But Apple offers a more modern way for third parties to sync: the XML. That does require the third party to write software, it's true, but iTunes will talk to that software.

 

[DELLsFan]

... signaling the latest salvo in the ongoing dispute between Apple and Palm, which has hired a number of former Apple employees in recent years as it attempts to outdo the iPhone...

Is it really? Or is Palm simply reinventing itself while still offering an alternative to the iPhone? Why must every smart phone HAVE to be trying to Outdo the Precious?

Competition is great. One of the most enticing features of the Pre for me is the physical keyboard. I know that isn't the case with everyone, but for some - it is.

 

[Goona]

Apple is more "Microsoft" than Microsoft ever thought about being.

Meaning at least MS is open to letting 3rd parties access their stuff. Apple is basically as closed & proprietary as you can get.

Does Microsoft allow the Pre to sync with the Zune Desktop?

 

[cmwade77]

I think the PRE has one major advantage over the iPhone: Multitasking

Really, both sides have problems on this one, but they should be able to be resolved:
Apple: Really, this is petty, you should allow third party devices to sync with your software.

Palm: Come on, making your phone pretend to be an iPod/iPhone, so that iTunes will sync with it? Really that is low, you guys can do better, you had the best PDAs on the market.

 

[Artofilm]

Geez... Must everything on this site be argued and fought about?!
This is an Apple forum, of course people here will defend and side with Apple.

 

[pdjudd]

Does that hold calendar, email, notes, and contact information?

No. But iTunes doesn't have that information to begin with - it get those things from other programs. but iTunes has it's own sync engine (ever since 4.8

Does iSync sync music (or any of the above in a reasonable manner - I've never got iSync to work, it usually just hangs)?

Well I have gotten it to work with older devices, but ever since Tiger, most sync related things have been delegated to SyncServices instead of iSync. Unformtunatly i cannot comment on this becasue not many modern devices support the Mac - they all came before my exposure to Apple software. All the sync devices I remember all used proprietary Windows solutions

Syncing services are now an expected part of an operating system, shame that Apple doesn't want to set some defacto standards itself by making something usable by third parties.

Sync is a very difficult thing prom a programming point of view - thats why there are a ton of different applications for it - none of the generic ones ever work right. Apple could develop whatever standard it wants to (It sounds like Sync Services was supposed to do that), but it cuts both ways - devices do not store or retrieve information in the same way. Support always falls behind which is why the systems end up proprietary - nobody wants to work together.

 

[GimmeSlack12]

Anyway, that's irrelevant. As is the argument that Apple shouldn't have to work to support third parties: They didn't. They did work to break a third party. Which is just mean and petty.

As someone else mentioned. It is fairly unethical to piggy-back on someone elses hard work. I wouldn't say this is a petty issue, rather protecting your product.

 

[Beric]

So I don't get this, guys. Let's say I make a small chair to sell. I say that only children may use it. I have now effectively and legally limited my product, because adults can't fit in it. However, if I make a larger chair, and say only adults may use it, but children happen to be able to use it, that's wrong. Likewise, it's perfectly acceptable for someone to sell a booster seat that makes it easier for children to use the chair.

Via this analogy, I would suggest that Apple may legally do whatever it wants with iTunes to make the Pre not functionally work. Likewise, Palm may modify its Pre (but not iTunes) to do whatever it wants to make iTunes work.

 

[pdjudd]

Does Microsoft allow the Pre to sync with iTunes?

Thats not up to Microsoft. All they need to do is support the USB architecture. Palm was transmitting a invalid SID to iTunes. Windows has no way of determine the difference if the SID's are incorrectly reported.

 

[dragossh]

The stupidity and short-sightedness in this thread is sad.

Apple is using their might in one market - media management, to influence and knock down competitors in another market.

This is just what Microsoft have done in the past, and got a slap on the wrist for.

But Apple makes shiny devices and it doesn’t suck like Microsoft! Just wait for BRLawyer to show up here and tell you that

Of course I should point out that these guys don't spoof their product ID to match the iPod and Apple has not supported players in ears (its for legacy support)

Does iTunes still support these players? Then it’s not iPod-only.

They just turned into uptight ******s after the iPod really started selling in 2003 & started slowly blocking other 3rd party players until it became what it is today.

Oh, man, I remember a time when Apple was this cute and nice underdog that produced the best technology they could. I believe they were called “Apple Computer”. Now they are so money-hungry, acting like crap (see also the problem they created by not supporting Ogg Theora in Safari) and trying to stifle competition in any way they can.

I don't get people bashing the Pre as a horrible phone that no one's using

It doesn’t have an Apple logo on the back. It sucks
Speaking of that, who wants to bet that if Apple came out with the Pre it would have been praised around here?

Does Microsoft allow the Pre to sync with iTunes?

Err, what? You’re joking, right? Anyway, they would be more than happy to allow it to sync with Windows Media Player.

 

[schalkse]

No, I am a consumer who doesn't just accept Apple's decisions without questioning them and they have been making quite a few lately.

Nobody forces you to use iTunes besides to sync iphone and ipod.
You always have a freedom of choice to use or not to use.

 

[Goona]

Not until they release their official numbers....but find one analyst or report that the Pre is selling poorly.

I'd be rather impressed.

Estimates are they are moving 30-50k a week since launch. (while supply constrained)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/06/AR2009070602911.html

 

[jdechko]

I posted this over at Engadget, but I think that Apple's issue wasn't necessarily that the Pre did sync with iTunes, but how it accomplished this: the Pre presented itself as an iPod to iTunes. I've read some reports saying that other 3rd party players are fine, which would mean that they just closed this specific avenue to Palm and the Pre. If this is true, then Palm could use the unofficial and (still) unsupported methods and I think it would be cool.

If Palm keeps hacking around, I think Apple would pursue some sort of legal action against Palm. After all, Jon Rubinstein (Palm's CEO) is an ex-Apple employee, who developed the iPod, among other things. Some of Palm's methods can, undoubtedly, be coming from his knowledge of his prior position.