If its a feature customers wanted those customers should go to the iPhone. Its smart business on apples part plain and simple. Argue all you want.
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iTunes 8.2.1 Reportedly Breaks Palm Pre Syncing
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If its a feature customers wanted those customers should go to the iPhone. Its smart business on apples part plain and simple. Argue all you want.
It is irrelevant for Palm what contracts Apple has with the recording industry. What matter is the license for the use of the iTunes software, and the license for the use of the iTunes Music Store, and you can and I have downloaded both of them. What Palm was doing was not in any conflict with these two licenses (I am assuming that the Palm Pre cannot play music with DRM; that music has different terms).
That said, Apple doesn't have any obligation to allow Palm to continue what it's doing.
The iTunes database is stored in "~/Music/iTunes Music Library.xml" which is standard XML. The music files are stored in "~/Music/iTunes Music" as standard MP3 or AAC files as long as you don't use music with DRM. So what exactly is this "proprietary crap" that you are talking about?
As I said, if Apple has any contracts with the music industry, that is Apple's business and nobody else's. The only thing that matters to me is the license between Apple and me. If that license allows me to do things that Apple shouldn't have allowed me to do because of a contract with the record industry and Apple, that's Apple's problem, not mine. Even if I _knew_ the contents of a contract and I _knew_ it would put Apple into legal trouble, it wouldn't be my problem.
so you're saying the iphone was a big failure up until the app store opened 1.5 years later?
you're joking right?? what about the hashing algorithm that locks out other apps besides itunes from properly accessing media on iphone/ipod touch?
And as it has been said about a billion times already, there are several programs (I think this is the third or fourth time that I am mentioning it) like MarkSpace that has been using these files and the associated Sync Services for YEARS without a batting of the eye from Apple to *gasp* SYNC NON-APPLE DEVCES LIKE THE PRE (note, the caps are not aimed at you Gnasher, they are just for emphasis) using the same music tracks that are available in iTunes. You really don't want iTunes anyway due to as you say, the DRM that still lurks there in movies and programs. DRM there is the product of external contracts between Apple and other third parties and there is nothing that Palm can legally do about those tracks - but there was nothing that they could do when they snuck into iTunes in the first place.
I agree. People keep implying some proprietary connection with iTunes and their music and anti-trust activities that I and several others know does not exist and have repeatedly said just that. It's as if people actively ignore us even though we are factually correct.
Yes, It has been mentioned throughout this thread.
I am far from a fanboy. I just see someone who can go though a thread this long and not actually read posts explaining the issue to be an idiot.
"Switching" stores mskes no sense. A smart consumer would purchase their music from the cheapest and most convenient at the time.
None do. PMPs can't because of Microsoft's licensing rules for PlaysForSure. As for smartphones, WinMo phones don't support Macs anyway; I'm not sure what Symbian and Android do for synching, but Palm could have just made their own synching program for webOS like they had for Palm OS.
and i'm about to repeat once again...what about the hashing algorithm that locks out other apps besides itunes from properly accessing media on iphone/ipod touch?
On a regular basis.
Umm, so? Apple came up with AFP. They also use SMB/CIFS to share files perfectly, but I don't know what example you're trying to make. The lesson I learn from that is that Apple knows how to treat their customer's right because they bundle support for SMB into their OS even though they themselves do not use it.
Wow, thanks Microsoft. Thanks for adopting (though not inventing) one of the worst file systems known to man and running wild with it. Seriously, what is your point, dude?
Again, huh? If Microsoft hadn't adopted FAT32 and pushed it on everyone using a Windows machine, most camera cards wouldn't use it. As it is, they work fine on Macs and PC's, not because of anything Microsoft did, but because Apple decided to support FAT32.
They tried that once (the changing of file formats every time). They know they couldn't get away with it now. If Microsoft were to drop Office for Mac, the fallout on them would be devastating. Of course, many users actually wouldn't care that much, because iWork works better anyways and PDF's are universal (without any help from Microsoft either), but again, what the heck is your point?
jW
I'm not seeing how that matters on how portable music player connect and interface with a computer has anything to do with Plays For Sure - A DRM mechanism that Microsoft no longer uses. MP3 players have long been able to connect to computers without supporting DRM of any kind and certainly before Plays For Sure even existed. It postdates the iTunes store even. Desktop support for PMP is based on software and driver support - not Plays for Sure.
No, thats not really true. Microsoft may not distribute software for the Mac, but MarkSpace has made the MissingSync for WMP for years to Sync Windows mobile and Mac data. My mom does it on a daily basis.
MarkSpace has a product that supports symbian. Here is a website that shows some mac option for Android users
And as you said, they are free to make their own software. If the first party doesn't want to do it, chances are someone else will make a business out of it.
Now I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but I think Apple should have the option in iTunes to sync music (well at least the DRM free) to any device, cell phone, USB-stick, SD-card you name it... To give us the option to just chose a location on our device and sync slected music to it.
I don't think this would hurt iPhone, or iPod sales that much, since iTunes is one of the biggest reasons a lot of people buys different mp3 players, they don't want that crap on their computers. The windows version literally sucks, it used to be a lot better though.
I don't think this would hurt iPhone, or iPod sales that much, since iTunes is one of the biggest reasons a lot of people buys different mp3 players, they don't want that crap on their computers. The windows version literally sucks, it used to be a lot better though.
So apple should go out of their way to add support of other manufacturers devices to a piece of software they do not charge for rather than the work be done by the company making a profit from the sale of said hardware?
Especially when the iTunes library information is available for anyone to use as well as the sync services framework? At best, you get pretty much the same information that you could get from iTunes all things considered.
Besides the branding of iTunes, what does integration get a third party player?
Movies? No, they can't use purchased movie content because of the studios legal usage of DRM that they have an outside agreement for. iTunes couldn't provide that even if they wanted to.
TV Shows? No, same reason.
Podcasts? Those aren't unique. All the podcast that Apple offers are probably avaiblabe to anyone using RSS, Apple has a large directory sure, but theirs is not the be all end all.
Music? Yea, but you can get that from the Library information track plus the tracks themselves are in documented locations.
Applications? No. There's nothing for other handset makers can use - they all use their own incompatible SDK's.
All iTunes is is a front end interface to decode DRM thats already limited to Apple players with no change there. Any player that does get into iTunes would face huge barriers and limitations. How would Palm feel if their users complained about their inability to play TV shows or movies with their Pre? The only thing Apple could offer is the usage of unprotected music. They already offer that with the XML file.
Every player would face limits with iTunes that would cause the end user more problms than its worth. Using third party software is or first party actually a better solution instead of a patchwork solution system that ultimately will rely on vendors agreeing on things. It may sound nice, but it just isn't practical.
I don't see how this can be good for Apple. Apple sells an operating system that comes pre-installed with iTunes. Last I heard if a company was going to do something like that they needed to ensure its compatibility as to avoid issues with the man.
Where did you hear that? I seem to recall that Apple does not stop you from using and installing other media players and media organizers. They don't even have the power to do that - they are a bit player in the OS market.
Nobody has to ensure computability with anything. Proprietary systems are totally allowed by law. However you cannot leverage a monopoly to suppress competition, but thats not going on at all as several people have demonstrated numerous times.
Riiiiiiight. I'm just a demi-god troll w/thousands of posts that has been on this forum for over seven years.
Calling someone out on their BS doesn't make anyone a troll and how am I twisting your words around? You are saying nobody here, including yourself, knows what stipulations are in the contracts then you turn right around and assume a certain stipulation, that conveniently props up your opinion, is in the contracts you admittedly know nothing about. Do you see the flaw in logic I'm getting at here?
The record companies want to sell music to the most people possible (which is why they sell it in variety of stores both online and physical) and Apple wants to sell Apple branded hardware. Yet it's the music companies that only want Apple branded hardware to work w/iTunes? Do you think they imposed similar limitations on Microsft, Amazon, Napster, Rhapsody, etc.,? What about the fact that Apple has allowed third party apps like the already mentioned DoulbeTwist and MissingSync to sync non-Apple devices to iTunes for years? You made the assertion so the onus is on you to prove your point. Comeback w/legit links proving you are right and I'll ****.
Lethal
It took zero level of effort from Apple to support the Pre, Palm's engineers did the work. And how in any way can you say that the sale of the Palm Pre is based off of iTunes compatibility? Either way you slice it, it comes across petty.
Maybe my brother with the new PalmPre can borrow my other brother's v1 iPhone which is JB and unlocked for T-Mobile....
Palm did minor work by breaking USB consortium rules to exploit work done by Apple that they invested money in and do not give to others. That is Apple's choice to make and not Palms decision. iTunes is closed source, proprietary software that was developed by Apple (after it was acquired from SoundJam). Look up what that means.
How can you be petty about your own software. Am I petty for deciding who gets to come into my house? Is my neighbor being petty for not letting me barge in to his living room? No. Apple provides all the tools needed for Palm to accomplish the same thing they are doing now. By violating contratual USB agreemnets, they are breaking estabished programming rules. It would be the same thing as if I burst into your bedroom and cried out "Here's Johnny!" Its flagrent dfisrespect for something that Apple has every right to have exclusive rights over. These were rights granted by an associated that Palm also is party to.
Palm was advertising itunes syncing as a feature. Their stock even took a hit because of this:
http://www.reuters.com/article/CMPSRV/idUSN1627453720090716
Here are some others agreeing with us:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/31927379/
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/07/16/apple-blocking-palm-pre-synching-who-cares/
Good links good links.
The sad thing about this whole situation is that palm can backdoor and reverse engineer a hack, advertise it as a legitimate function, then have their customers kick and scream when Apple says "no thanks, you ain't no iPod".
Unbelievable. They need more than a stock hit. I'm thinking a swift kick the the neck.
Palms ignorance in the situation is the worse. You can argue that Apple is being draconian in this situation (even though I'd call you crazy) but Apple NO DOUBT would have let this slide if Palm hadn't announced iTunes Syncing as a SELLING POINT. Forgive me if its been mentioned in this thread already , but Palm went from thin ice to bitch slapping Apple in the face by capitalizing on the success of iTunes and piggybacking on the seemless intergration of the iPod. Judging by the fluctuation in the stock price, Palm knew that there was some serious allure involved with having one of the few devices being able to actually sync up with iTunes via the built in program; something that no other phone can tout (besides the ROKR, some other moto phones and of course iPod/iPhones).
This is no different than the OSx86 project. Some say that there are insiders working on the program also; this we don't know. We do know that Apple has let it go on for quite some time and really didn't seem to care about this harmless yet fun and in some cases lucrative hobby, but when Psystar came on the scene Apple obviously responded in much the same way.
Exactly if something goes wrong while syncing their Pre with Itunes, they won't blame Palm, they will be looking to blame Apple like we just saw. Apple closes a security hole in iTunes and they end up getting blamed. Imagine if Apple had to support every mp3 player or phone out there if they took advantage of this and called Apple for support, it would be too much of a burden for them and goes against their DNA.