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Jobs says Signal Strength a "non issue"

To those that agree it's a non-issue. Let me ask you this.

How many iPhones need to demonstrate the signal failure for it to BE an issue?

1000? 5000? 100,000? 1 Million?

I agree that many people are having no issues. Maybe they hold the phone differently than others. Maybe they have this "coating" which is speculation. Maybe they haven't tried. Maybe they aren't paying attention. Maybe they are in areas with amazing cell signals. Maybe they don't visit forums to post telling us about their non-issue.

Doesn't matter. At the end of the day - people ARE having issues. And the proof is in the 2nd email that Steve (or his office) sent me. "If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases. "

What Steve is essentially saying is - put a bandaid on the situation.

Again - it's irrelevant to anyone with this issue whether or not OTHER brand phones have this issue. Apple appears to not want to own up that THEIR phone has any issues. It's shifting the blame to both the consumer and the technology.

Back to my original statement. So how many people does it take for it to BE an issue. If one group of people have no signal problem and another does. That means "something" is wrong. And "something" needs to be corrected.

Here's hoping they find out what the ISSUE (not non-issue) is.
 
Carniphage said:
If what you say is true then either there is a design flaw with all iPhone4s - or there is a manufacturing defect which magnifies the problem in some cases.

Either way, you should return the device.

C.
Click to expand...

I am in the boat where I have the issue but I will not be returning the device. Why?

  • The phone was $200 with my yearly upgrade. There aren't very many appealing $200 phones from AT&T. The other phone I would get is a Nexus One which clocks in at $525
  • I'm on a family plan (primary line) so I can't jump to a different carrier as the total bill will skyrocket since adding a line is $10+tax and a new contract on a different carrier is -$10 from the AT&T contract and +$60 or more from a different carrier
  • I do think a software/hardware fix could be in the works
  • I always always always always always keep my expensive phones in a case. My 2G, 3G, 3GS, and Nexus One (that I no longer own) were always kept in a case. I don't want a clumsy mistake to destroy a device and leave me with a $500 replacement bill. A case is a great $20 way to protect a expensive product
  • I already have my iPhone 4 and its case and with the case on the issue goes away. I never planned on using it without a case anyway

Having said that, I still think this whole issue is BS. I did call Apple, I did email SJobs@apple, I did post youtube videos. This issue won't impact me anymore because I have my case, but that isn't the point.

Something the Apple apologists need to understand is that it is ok to like Apple but still find issues with their products. Look back through my post history here if you want, countless pages of me praising Apple and defending them when people complain. But I can't do it this time. There is no defense for this. Apple royally screwed up, and nobody should be defending them.

I don't care if this issue doesn't impact you personally, the fact that it impacts as many people as it does indicates a design flaw in every device.
 
I can understand everyone's point-of-view. You buy a product and you expect it to function flawlessly, as advertised.

I don't have an iP4 yet, but I know that if my phone was going through this issue I would be up on Apple's ass all day until they solved my issue (Whether it was a free bumper or new phone, even though I don't wanna cover my phone w/ a bumper).

It looks like people here and even engadget took a shot at :apple: which is GREAT! I love it!
hey-apple-youre-holding-it-wrong.jpg


But this happens all the time, and it even happened with my car where there was an issue with the steering wheel shaking and it took Audi about 6 months to identify, recognize and solve the issue. This happens with many other car companies, and even w/ apple we should expect a fix and if we don't then Apple will suffer. Its as if Toyota ignored their infamous 'car not stopping' issue.
 
bmms8 said:
sir, i too have this issue of reception dropping.. all i am saying is that people will not make MR accounts and state their phones do not have the issue, they will come here and state they do have an issue. but there are a few who have stated that they do not have this issue. i can only go by what i see. i am sure in the next few days we will get more and more information on it to help everyone.
Click to expand...

We know that location plays a big part in replicating this issue so by someone saying "hey my phones works fine" doesn't prove anything until they are in a location which is known to trigger the issue. Am I not saying this right? I was at work yesterday when my phone arrived and I didn't have the issue. I thought that I could be one of the lucky ones but kept an open mind knowing that location could play a part. Sure enough when I got home I could replicate the problem. This leads me to believe that all phones have this problem, I could be wrong but there isn't anything to suggest otherwise at this time.
 
-aggie- said:
I'm not offended at all. If you've read through all these pages (and boy has this thread taken off since I left it last night), you'll see I have problems with this "non-issue" as well. However, I don't want to see it get exaggerated. I'm one for facts, just like samcraig. Just holding the phone, like mafylnn writes/exaggerates, does not cause the issue.

However, anything maflynn writes is suspect, since he obviously doesn't own an iPhone. :D I've never been to a Droid forum. Why the Droid people post here escapes me.
Click to expand...

Cool beans. Yeah, that's beyond me too. 'cept that some apple product owners don't own all apple products. Though not many roam these parts...

FWIW though, I find it difficult not to hold it said way (i usually hold the phone in my left). Granted, not everyone has this issue, but like anything regarding something finicky as signal there's too many variables to make any generalization safe.

Also, let the record show that with over 11,000 posts of your own it is probably a safe assumption that you aren't all cold hard facts, and likely add some color (i.e. chat room) conversation of your own among these forums. And I wouldn't hate you for that either. ;)
 
I like and admire Apple, and I was going to get an iPhone 4 yesterday but when I read all the negative feedback from the early recipients of the phone I thought I had better hold off.

This is clearly a hardware design screw-up, of which they probably became aware too late in the manufacturing and marketing hype cycle but probably figured they might get away with by lying and pushing those crappy bumpers as a cool accessory.

Yesterday the media kept on and on about how Apple would be selling 1,000,000 iPhones on the same day, the first company ever to do so. Lots of hype and Apple is a master at that. The flip side of the coin is, just think how much this screw-up will cost Apple in terms of recalling and replacing one million handsets, and in terms of reputation, which is clearly now sinking by the minute.

This may end up costing Apple upwards of $1 billion plus a huge loss of goodwill from the strapped consumer who has made a sacrifice to get the latest Apple wonder. Apple will fight tooth and nail by sticking to their non-issue story, but this kind of arrogance will be the company's undoing. Just wait for the weekend, and see whether the queues of buyers outside Apple stores are replaced by even longer lines of angry customers returning their phones.

Disclaimer: I now certain that Apple's stock will get crushed and dive back below $200 within two weeks and I have taken on a very large July put option position on AAPL.
 
citrate said:
Let me guess. You tested all three phones in the same location? What does that tell you?

Whilst at work I can't replicate the problem. At home I lose all signal and can't make any calls.
Click to expand...

Tested @..
Novi, MI
23 between Novi & Fenton
Fenton, MI
 
br0adband said:
Wow, lifelong Cult of Mac member, eh? That programming is going to be tough to break but, with willpower, you'll be ok, I promise.

I have an iPhone 4, received yesterday by FedEx (yesterday meaning the 23rd since it's pretty much midnight Pacific time on the 25th as I'm about to post this) and I have duplicated the results of the fingertip test on my own phone a dozen times or more today. I don't have a video camera (aside from the one in the damned iPhone) so I can't post a video.

I live in downtown Las Vegas, I'm in an apartment building on the 3rd floor, and I have a balcony about 25 feet from my front door that lets me look onto the downtown Vegas area - I'm 2 streets east of Las Vegas Blvd and 1 street south of Fremont meaning I'm about 300 yards from the geographic center of the entire city/metropolitan area which is the intersection of Las Vegas Blvd and Fremont (where the famous cowboy on horseback sign is located).

The significance of this? I have a Sprint central office (aka "switch") 250 yards from me when I'm standing on that balcony just outside my apartment doorway that's got a cell site on top of it, and an AT&T central office that sits right beside it and a cell site on the roof of that building as well.

Inside my apartment, with the iPhone 4 laying flat on the desktop, I get 5 bars as expected (AT&T service, for the moment). If, as demonstrated in many videos posted all over the place, I place a single fingertip on the lower left side of the phone, directly on the seam (what other people call "the black line" etc) and my skin bridges the contact with the two metal bands that make up part of the chassis and act as the antenna(s), within 30 seconds the apparent signal strength drops to no bars and then about 5 seconds later I will lose service completely and totally.

As long as I myself hold my fingertip in that spot bridging those components that phone will not regain service, and I held it there for 2 minutes in one test. As soon as I release the fingertip contact, within 45 seconds service is restored to the full 5 bars.

I disabled Wi-Fi for one test, ensured I had 3G 5 bar strength, opened Pandora and started streaming audio and then set the phone down in the same location on the desktop (ok, so I might have been a millimeter or two off, sue me) and waited 1 full minute to allow the stream to get going, buffered, and playing.

I then applied that single fingertip to the lower left side once again, and I lost service totally and the stream within 45 seconds of applying my skin to the iPhone 4.

Buddy, I don't know what proof you require, nor do I really care, all I know is that this phone isn't supposed to do this, and telling me "Just avoid holding it that way" or any way I choose to hold such a device is an insult to my intelligence.

I stepped out on the balcony 10 minutes ago and got 5 bars as expected since when I'm standing on that balcony you could literally take a laser pointer (if the phone had one built in) and hit the cell site tower/antenna assembly - it literally is line-of-sight from my balcony and it's only about 20 feet higher in elevation than my 3rd floor balcony is.

Held the phone in the air by using my right hand and my index and middle finger on the back glass panel and and my right thumb on the front, just to the right of the Home button - I was not touching the metal frame at all with my right hand, there was no skin-on-metal contact nor was I touching the display on the capacitive section.

I then placed the index fingertip of my left hand on the seam, once again bridging the gap between the two metal antenna components, and was fairly shocked to see the signal degrade, fade, disappear, and then lose service yet again.

And that's line-of-sight with a cell tower ~250 yard away, roughly 750 feet, maybe a tiny bit more (I mapped it out with Google Maps and GPS once from my balcony to the top of that AT&T building).

This thing is broken, and will be returned in a few days because of said defect. If it's actually a coating issue as I've suspected and others are now starting to consider, that's fine, but it's still going back. I don't care if they offer me the damned phone for free when I take it back, I'm done with Apple and their blatant false advertising, deceptive implications about performance and outright shrugging off their own design flaws and blaming them on other people - right now they're blaming US and telling us we don't know how to hold the phone.

How stupid can someone be to buy into this? Steve Jobs, by saying "Just avoid holding it that way" is saying "Listen, I'm Steve Jobs, I know more about this because it's my phone and I have complete tyrannical control over ever facet of it from start to finish, so obviously the fault lies with you and your non-perfect non-Apple labeled hands so, deal with it."

I'm done testing the iPhone 4, I have my proof, in the palm of my hand no less, and now it's time to point it out to others that will continue to give Apple a pass on such things.
Click to expand...

So far this is the best post in this whole thread. Wish people were more level headed like this person and not so blinded by the Apple koolaid
 
samcraig said:
To those that agree it's a non-issue. Let me ask you this.

How many iPhones need to demonstrate the signal failure for it to BE an issue?

1000? 5000? 100,000? 1 Million?

I agree that many people are having no issues. Maybe they hold the phone differently than others. Maybe they have this "coating" which is speculation. Maybe they haven't tried. Maybe they aren't paying attention. Maybe they are in areas with amazing cell signals. Maybe they don't visit forums to post telling us about their non-issue.

Doesn't matter. At the end of the day - people ARE having issues. And the proof is in the 2nd email that Steve (or his office) sent me. "If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases. "

What Steve is essentially saying is - put a bandaid on the situation.

Again - it's irrelevant to anyone with this issue whether or not OTHER brand phones have this issue. Apple appears to not want to own up that THEIR phone has any issues. It's shifting the blame to both the consumer and the technology.

Back to my original statement. So how many people does it take for it to BE an issue. If one group of people have no signal problem and another does. That means "something" is wrong. And "something" needs to be corrected.

Here's hoping they find out what the ISSUE (not non-issue) is.
Click to expand...

Just return the phone. Apple isn't forcing you to keep it.
 
Eluzion said:
But if the CEO of the company thinks it's not an issue and he knows about it, better yet possibly tried to make even more money by selling overpriced "bumpers" to add to their billion plus in cash reserves... well, that's just sad.
Click to expand...

NONE of us have any evidence whatsoever that the email really came from Steve. Personally I find it unlikely, but I have no evidence either way, so loudly denigrating his character in public on the basis of its contents isn't a clever thing to do and I would wait for a formal announcement published by Apple before leaping to any conclusions as to their position, proposed remedy or otherwise.

There may be a legitimate, widespread issue with the phone, what's sickening at this point is not the issue itself, but the absurd over reactions, ignorance, conspiracy theories and jumping to conclusions that have gone on over the last 24 hours. It's just a phone. You are protected by consumer laws, you will end up with a working phone or a refund if your issues persists and cause you problems in normal usage. Sheeeesh.
 
uberamd said:
Honestly just holding my phone as I always do (as a left handed person) causes my signal to cut out. I don't think I could exaggerate it any more because it is already as bad as it could possibly be.
Click to expand...

Honestly same for me. I don't pay attention to the bars. Never did on my 2G or 3Gs. The truth is this phone drops calls constantly when I use it. And this never happened to me before. I was just defending apple and AT&T to a droider last week saying I love the service and never had any issues.

People making excuses are either stationary in a place with excellent service or not making lots of calls. I went into the AT&T store yesterday and could not replicate this. But there is a tower right behind their store. It pains me to say this, but I have to go back to the 3Gs today. I read where this happens with this phone too, but I never sat there and squeezed the phone and watched bars. But I do know it never dropped calls (even on iOs 4). I even tried a case, and plugged in my headset. But it dropped the call the second I put it in my pocket. Handholding techniques, bar counting, whatever. Practical use shows this phone is not quality that I would expect from Apple.
 
mobilehavoc said:
So far this is the best post in this whole thread. Wish people were more level headed like this person and not so blinded by the Apple koolaid
Click to expand...

anyway, I have decided to buy the iPhone 4 in Hong Kong, we will test here to see the same scenario can be repeated!
 
aughsum said:
Tested @..
Novi, MI
23 between Novi & Fenton
Fenton, MI
Click to expand...

I think you need to find someone on here who can replicate the problem on their phone and who can get to one of those locations easily. If he/she can still replicate the problem there then that would suggest that there are some phones which are fine. Although this would be a big problem for Apple because it would prove a defect. My monies still on all phones have the defect but would love to be proved wrong.
 
hawkeye23 said:
Just return the phone. Apple isn't forcing you to keep it.
Click to expand...

So that's your solution? What if I want to KEEP the phone, and have it work like a normal cell phone with the ability to make calls regardless of how you hold it? So it's not Apple's responsibility to fix the product and make it work like advertised (in so many commercials)?
 
dead76 said:
Seriously? So so lame. There is no way they didn't know this. Why couldn't the have just put the split on the bottom, nobody holds it by the bottom? How hard would that have been? Man, major fail. :mad:
Click to expand...

I believe it IS at the lower left corner. The best placement for the gap I think would be at the TOP. Just turn the antenna around and flip it. Problem solved (for new phones anyway)
 
uberamd said:
Something the Apple apologists need to understand is that it is ok to like Apple but still find issues with their products. Look back through my post history here if you want, countless pages of me praising Apple and defending them when people complain. But I can't do it this time. There is no defense for this. Apple royally screwed up, and nobody should be defending them.

I don't care if this issue doesn't impact you personally, the fact that it impacts as many people as it does indicates a design flaw in every device.
Click to expand...

Well said. I've been called both a troll AND a fanboy. I'm neither. I'm just a consumer who weighs his options and buys what is best for my particular needs/wants.

You can like Apple products and not be a fanboy. And you can acknowledge issues without being a troll.
 
samcraig said:
Is he trying to be funny - or does he really think that's the solution.

Wow
Click to expand...

All these rediculous replies are perfect examples of the dumbing down of America. It's amazing how many people don't have a clue about how radios or antenas work.

Steve is absolutly right. Your presence near any antena, be it transmitting or receiving, impacts how well it operates. It's amazing that cell phones work at all since your body blocks a significant percentage of any transmitted or received signal.

Then on top of signal blockage, placing your fingers across the antenna ends creats a short circuit. That's like sticking two prongs of a fork into the slots of an electrical outlet. If you dont like to see your electrical outlet short out, spark, and blow fuses, stop sticking forks in it. Like duh!
 
samcraig said:
To those that agree it's a non-issue. Let me ask you this.

How many iPhones need to demonstrate the signal failure for it to BE an issue?

1000? 5000? 100,000? 1 Million?

I agree that many people are having no issues. Maybe they hold the phone differently than others. Maybe they have this "coating" which is speculation. Maybe they haven't tried. Maybe they aren't paying attention. Maybe they are in areas with amazing cell signals. Maybe they don't visit forums to post telling us about their non-issue.

Doesn't matter. At the end of the day - people ARE having issues. And the proof is in the 2nd email that Steve (or his office) sent me. "If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases. "

What Steve is essentially saying is - put a bandaid on the situation.

Again - it's irrelevant to anyone with this issue whether or not OTHER brand phones have this issue. Apple appears to not want to own up that THEIR phone has any issues. It's shifting the blame to both the consumer and the technology.

Back to my original statement. So how many people does it take for it to BE an issue. If one group of people have no signal problem and another does. That means "something" is wrong. And "something" needs to be corrected.

Here's hoping they find out what the ISSUE (not non-issue) is.
Click to expand...

+1

This is my second iPhone. I've just upgraded from the first gen. I never noticed this happening on that phone. Ever. I see bars drop on this phone when I hold the lower left corner - when I'm in an area with a low signal to begin with. So for me I guess it's a semi-issue. But it's still an issue for me. I'm getting a bumper. I'm not a case person but I'm going to try. But still... even though I can make it work, it's still an issue.
 
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