John Gruber: Apple Invented USB Type C

[SlCKB0Y]

Adapting the signal to Ethernet and Display methods is changing a hardware function, not unlocking additional software features.

Your link did not specify that dongles only unlock software features. Your link said that whilst dongles were initially used as anti-piracy devices or to unlock extra software features, the term has been generalised.

A dongle is a small piece of hardware that attaches to a computer, TV, or other electronic device in order to enable additional functions such as copy protection, audio, video, games, data, or other services. These services are available only when the dongle is attached.

Although the term "dongle" was originally used to refer only to software protection devices, it is now more broadly applied.

Furthermore, they give examples of dongles which attach to the USB as:

bluetooth
SD card readers
thumbdrives

So your contention is that based on the quote YOU provided

1. A bluetooth USB stick is a dongle
2. A USB thumbdrive is a dongle
3. A USB SD card reader is a dongle,

But,

1. A USB ethernet controller is not a dongle
2. A USB display port is not a dongle.

Riiiiight. That makes a whole lot of sense.

----------

IF we consider the Surface Pro 3 tablet then....

Your wrong on all those points. If you read the Surface Pro 3 thread on here, you will see some people do use it for programming, so it must do alright for that task considering it's more powerful processor, plus it can play some pretty demanding games, may not be the highest FPS and the settings need to be turned down but it will play them, plenty of You Tube videos show that. And web browsing will be the same on the Surface Pro as the MacBook.

The issue is that when the Surface Pro is good at all the things mentioned like programming or word processing, it IS being used in a laptop form, not as a tablet.

 

[ianday]

I said this in another USB C thread, there is no reason why they couldn't have made an omnidirectional magnetic power AND data cable. Think of it as MagSafe on steroids.

I'm not an engineer but generally you want to avoid magnets near data connections.

 

[imola.zhp]

I think they ditched magsafe in part because they want you to charge it nightly with your iPhone and watch. If the battery is as awesome as they say it is (hopefully true) then the need to be plugged in throughout the day should lessen.

 

[Tovenaar]

Not having the connector pull away when yanked on is a severe negative for a portable.

It's ok for power to be intermittent, but you would want a sturdier connection for data and video.

 

[rceee]

Please don't replace MagSafe on the other MacBooks. Please. I get that you want to be trendsetters, etc. If anything, just make a better MagSafe connector, if that's even possible. MagSafe has saved me countless times. This single port crap is getting old.

I really miss my 2011 top-of-the-line Macbook Pro 15"–it had Thunderbolt, discrete graphics, SSD, all the bells and whistles, but still had firewire 800 ports, Thunderbolt ports, USB ports, so on and so forth. It even had the "high-resolution" display upgrade that was offered for a limited time, which was basically a step towards Retina long before they introduced that.

I'd have kept it at least another three years, but the discrete graphics card died. Apparently this was a problem en masse. Now they are offering a repair program, but I'm on the fence about sending it in because it has all my sensitive data, and I'm not able to boot into it to remove any of it beforehand. Anyone know if Apple goes through your stuff when doing those kinds of repairs?

Man, that was a sweet spot of a laptop. This latest MBPr is great, too, but that one was special. I compared screens while I could still get it to boot every 100th time, and the display was actually a lot brighter and better looking, despite not being "Retina". Go figure.

A major part of Apple's Macbook user base are professionals–developers, designers, and other people who are savvy with the laptops. They need ports for their peripherals (from external HD, to Thunderbolt Display, to projectors for presentations, to advanced audio interfaces (which Firewire was best for... Firewire forever!!!). We make use of iCloud synching, and shared keychain/synchronized tabs/bookmarks in Safari, even.

I'd even venture to guess this part of the user base is larger than the casual user who happened to go out on a limb and get a Macbook over a PC laptop for their basic web browsing and document editing, because they don't really have a need for the BSD operating system that lies underneath. I, on the other hand, need to be able to drop down to a Terminal to do my work.

What I'm getting at is, moves like going to a single port with a crummy dongle are all in line with this movement towards unifying iOS and OSX, and that doesn't need to happen. They need to remain two distinct and very different products, but that glue together increasingly well with iCloud and other services. Hopefully Apple won't make this mistake, but this 12" netbook is truly the dumbest Apple product I have ever seen. I even think the watch is a bit silly, but will probably own one. But I wouldn't touch that overpriced netbook with a 12" pole... pardon the pun.

 

[AlecZ]

I follow you for many things here... But, web browsing? Tablets are great for web browsing. They're also pretty good for note taking if can use a good stylus on it.

Whenever I browse on a tablet, I find myself moving around the screen or zooming in/out, not necessary on a PC. You can't have multiple windows easily, and tabs aren't as convenient. All issues because of the tiny screen on a tablet. And aren't links really annoying to click with a touch screen? Lastly, I know Flash is dying out, but that doesn't mean you can go 100% without it yet. That one time you need it or some other plugin...

Note taking is much faster with a laptop keyboard than with a tablet keyboard (unless you get a really good peripheral one and basically turn the tablet into a laptop) or writing with handwriting detection software. Writing is faster on paper than on a tablet, in fact.

 

[MacGekko]

You evaluate (and compare) tethers based on how restrictive they are: how often and for how long they make you do something you otherwise wouldn't have to do or prevent you from doing something you want to do.

Here is how you do it, will you need the Iphone in your pocket when you leave the house in order to utilize most of the functions that make this watch smart?

Now when you leave the house with your Iphone of any generation do you need to carry anything else with you?

The comment that Fireball made does not pass any common sense test, parse the words, extend the logic in any manner you wish, the Apple Watch needs the Iphone, the Iphone of any generation does not need anything once it is fully charged and you have loaded the data you need.

He used the words "much like", either he is not that smart, paid by Apple or too naive to demand payment by Apple because he is certainly carrying their water.

I believe in 2004 Microsoft released a smartwatch that was able to get you sports scores, the weather, news, stock prices, all of the things Apple is touting with their "glances" function, Microsoft was able to deliver this data to the watch without any device and they did not charge anything for a data plan.

Why couldn't Apple do the same thing? Why not give the consumer a few interesting or compelling reasons or ways to justify leaving the phone at home, why not give it some real functionality without the phone, maybe because they are scared that people would ditch the phone all together or get a flip phone and wear an Apple Watch.

Actually they did charge money as I just looked it up, $59 dollars per year, OK Apple could charge a yearly fee much like they charge for Itunes Match.

 

[Nightarchaon]

Thunderbolt may go the way of firewire now that we have USB3-C. Thunderbolt 3 is going to be 4x faster than USB3-C and can also provide 100w of power. USB3-C will still be smaller and cheaper though.

Smaller and Cheaper will be the winner, also, the fact the port can be fitted into EVERYTHING from cell phones to Desktop PCs... I don't see apple releasing a Thunderbolt ported iPhone down the line.

But yes, Thunderbolt is this generations Firewire, it will have limited use outside some very high end professionals and eventually go the way of bigfoot, talked about but seldom sighted

 

[manu chao]

its genius if they dont end up lowering the price. if its the original iphone or mba then i would say they got it wrong initially. i would suspect the price on this one will decrease.

if it starts happening more and more (lets say the new macbook and the watch) they risk a disconnect with the mass consumer.

That original iPhone price drop was eight years ago at a time when the iPhone was still a very small part of their sales.

But introducing a new 'premium' product at a premium price while still keeping all other products available (and still updating those other products), ie, adding 'merely' an additional high-end product, is not a bad strategy. When the new 'premium' product then replaces existing products (because those are no longer sold or no longer updated) it is lowered in price to take the price slot of the previous products.

This is what happened with the two previous retina products (MBP and iMac). Both were introduced at higher prices than the existing products. As the existing products then got discontinued (15" non-retina MBP) or stopped being updated (13" non-retina MBP), the prices of the rMBPs were lowered. Note that this price lowering doesn't necessarily happened exactly the moment older products were discontinued (or were skipped in the update cycle), it can happen half a year apart and also in more than one stage.

The original MBA followed the same pattern, when it finally replaced the plastic MBs, its price had dropped to something much closer to the plastic MB price. But not necessarily exactly down to the plastic MB price. Not least since this depends on which products you exactly compare, if you take for example the non-retina MBPs and look at their prices with an SSD than the rMBPs pretty much reached that price level. If you look at the entry-level price, that is not yet the case. The non-retina 13" MBP from 2012 (the last year it was updated) started at $1199. The 13" rMBP currently starts at $1299. And Apple drops the prices of existing product lines occasionally, eg, the MBA line had a small price drop last year, the entry level dropped from $999 to $899 (the same happened to the Mac mini and the iMac, though that was done by adding a lower-spec processor entry model).

 

[brownpaw]

I'd have kept it at least another three years, but the discrete graphics card died. Apparently this was a problem en masse. Now they are offering a repair program, but I'm on the fence about sending it in because it has all my sensitive data, and I'm not able to boot into it to remove any of it beforehand. Anyone know if Apple goes through your stuff when doing those kinds of repairs?

Just use target disk mode with another Firewire-enabled Mac. That's how I saved a bunch of data from one that 'died.'

 

[Mal67]

Fair enough. But it should be priced around $999.

You'd think so wouldn't you

 

[the-msa]

The innovation was creating a fanless MacBook logic board design

i dont understand? samsung already released the ativ 9, a fanless, core m 12 inch 2560x1600 pixels 2 pound netbook which is available since the beginning of march.

and holy crap, it even has a 720p webcam!

is apple not innovating at all? #innovationgate

 

[kalsta]

Please don't replace MagSafe on the other MacBooks. Please.

Amen!! I've already sent my feedback to Apple here, titled 'Please don't kill MagSafe and multiple ports on MBP'. Suggest you do to!

I really miss my 2011 top-of-the-line Macbook Pro 15"–it had Thunderbolt, discrete graphics, SSD, all the bells and whistles, but still had firewire 800 ports, Thunderbolt ports, USB ports, so on and so forth. It even had the "high-resolution" display upgrade that was offered for a limited time, which was basically a step towards Retina long before they introduced that.

Precisely the model I'm typing on right now! Yes, I have the SSD and high-res matt display upgrades too. And I'll be rocking it for many years to come if Apple continues down this dark path.

Just use target disk mode with another Firewire-enabled Mac. That's how I saved a bunch of data from one that 'died.'

Yep, I ditto this. I killed my MBP myself while trying to 'fix' Yosemite's wi-fi problems in the Terminal. I killed it good too—couldn't even reboot into the recovery partition. Target disk mode was a life saver. USB-C better offer the same thing, that's all I can say!

 

[imola.zhp]

I really miss my 2011 top-of-the-line Macbook Pro 15"–it had Thunderbolt, discrete graphics, SSD, all the bells and whistles, but still had firewire 800 ports, Thunderbolt ports, USB ports, so on and so forth. It even had the "high-resolution" display upgrade that was offered for a limited time, which was basically a step towards Retina long before they introduced that.

I'd have kept it at least another three years, but the discrete graphics card died. Apparently this was a problem en masse. Now they are offering a repair program, but I'm on the fence about sending it in because it has all my sensitive data, and I'm not able to boot into it to remove any of it beforehand. Anyone know if Apple goes through your stuff when doing those kinds of repairs?

Unless your 2011 15" MBP is drastically different than my mid 2010 13" MBP:
1) flip it over
2) remove the screws
3) pop out the hard drive
4) put it in an external enclosure
5) plug it into a different computer
6) remove whatever your scared about them looking at
7) pop it back in the 2011 15" MBP
8) put the screws back in
9) send it in for repair

If thats too much work, I'll give you $200 shipped for it and promise to do just that before sending it in to be fixed. But then its mine once fixed.

 

[iLLucionist]

Please don't replace MagSafe on the other MacBooks. Please. I get that you want to be trendsetters, etc. If anything, just make a better MagSafe connector, if that's even possible. MagSafe has saved me countless times. This single port crap is getting old.

I really miss my 2011 top-of-the-line Macbook Pro 15"–it had Thunderbolt, discrete graphics, SSD, all the bells and whistles, but still had firewire 800 ports, Thunderbolt ports, USB ports, so on and so forth. It even had the "high-resolution" display upgrade that was offered for a limited time, which was basically a step towards Retina long before they introduced that.

I'd have kept it at least another three years, but the discrete graphics card died. Apparently this was a problem en masse. Now they are offering a repair program, but I'm on the fence about sending it in because it has all my sensitive data, and I'm not able to boot into it to remove any of it beforehand. Anyone know if Apple goes through your stuff when doing those kinds of repairs?

Man, that was a sweet spot of a laptop. This latest MBPr is great, too, but that one was special. I compared screens while I could still get it to boot every 100th time, and the display was actually a lot brighter and better looking, despite not being "Retina". Go figure.

A major part of Apple's Macbook user base are professionals–developers, designers, and other people who are savvy with the laptops. They need ports for their peripherals (from external HD, to Thunderbolt Display, to projectors for presentations, to advanced audio interfaces (which Firewire was best for... Firewire forever!!!). We make use of iCloud synching, and shared keychain/synchronized tabs/bookmarks in Safari, even.

I'd even venture to guess this part of the user base is larger than the casual user who happened to go out on a limb and get a Macbook over a PC laptop for their basic web browsing and document editing, because they don't really have a need for the BSD operating system that lies underneath. I, on the other hand, need to be able to drop down to a Terminal to do my work.

What I'm getting at is, moves like going to a single port with a crummy dongle are all in line with this movement towards unifying iOS and OSX, and that doesn't need to happen. They need to remain two distinct and very different products, but that glue together increasingly well with iCloud and other services. Hopefully Apple won't make this mistake, but this 12" netbook is truly the dumbest Apple product I have ever seen. I even think the watch is a bit silly, but will probably own one. But I wouldn't touch that overpriced netbook with a 12" pole... pardon the pun.

This. That's why I'm still holding onto my late 2010 MacBook Pro with high res-matte display. I don't care that it is a bit heavier or bulkier than the rMBP. The screen, to me at least, is still gorgeous: high res and MATTE!

 

[ScottishDuck]

The innovation was creating a fanless MacBook logic board design

Hate to break it to you but fanless design is a feature of Broadwell Core M, Intel has reference designs for it.

 

[scott911]

some one should edit the spec to say: include two damn ports minimum.

 

[theluggage]

But we all know that needing a headphone adaptor would have been ridiculed with equal measure

Well, if it had been a design requirement from the start, I'm sure they could have squeezed both in. I note from the 'internal' picture on the Apple website that the motherboard is smack in the middle of the hinge, so they must be using internal cables and daughterboards for all the ports, microphones etc. - its not like former MacBooks where the number of ports was dictated by the length of motherboard adjacent to the edge of the case.

Secondly, while a regulation was proposed, the EU withdrew it after the industry signed an agreement among themselves to voluntary fulfil the requirements of the regulation,

Are you sure? The "memorandum of understanding" was years ago, the new law was drafted last year and cuts in in 2016. Its still stupid to specify the connector at the smartphone end - which have to double as data ports and will continue to evolve - when mandating USB-A or C on the *charger* end, which only has to charge, solves the problem (and also guarantees that you can use the supplied charge cable in cars, computers etc.)

...and what about wireless charging? Will manufacturers have to keep fitting USB ports in phones so that they can charge, even when everybody has gone totally wireless? Or is it OK to ignore standards and invent a proprietary charging plate, which will be landfill when the phone dies, provided you call it an "adapter" and it has micro-USB?

 

[numlock]

That original iPhone price drop was eight years ago at a time when the iPhone was still a very small part of their sales.

But introducing a new 'premium' product at a premium price while still keeping all other products available (and still updating those other products), ie, adding 'merely' an additional high-end product, is not a bad strategy. When the new 'premium' product then replaces existing products (because those are no longer sold or no longer updated) it is lowered in price to take the price slot of the previous products.

This is what happened with the two previous retina products (MBP and iMac). Both were introduced at higher prices than the existing products. As the existing products then got discontinued (15" non-retina MBP) or stopped being updated (13" non-retina MBP), the prices of the rMBPs were lowered. Note that this price lowering doesn't necessarily happened exactly the moment older products were discontinued (or were skipped in the update cycle), it can happen half a year apart and also in more than one stage.

The original MBA followed the same pattern, when it finally replaced the plastic MBs, its price had dropped to something much closer to the plastic MB price. But not necessarily exactly down to the plastic MB price. Not least since this depends on which products you exactly compare, if you take for example the non-retina MBPs and look at their prices with an SSD than the rMBPs pretty much reached that price level. If you look at the entry-level price, that is not yet the case. The non-retina 13" MBP from 2012 (the last year it was updated) started at $1199. The 13" rMBP currently starts at $1299. And Apple drops the prices of existing product lines occasionally, eg, the MBA line had a small price drop last year, the entry level dropped from $999 to $899 (the same happened to the Mac mini and the iMac, though that was done by adding a lower-spec processor entry model).

yes the iphone was new but their miscalculations there was epic.

i dont see the premium aspect of the new macbook which seems to be crux of your otherwise fine post.

yes products often have their prices lowered. that is the way of the world. i just think its two very different things when a matured product gets a price decrease and when a newly released product gets one. btw the mini and imac lost the optical drive at that time right?

my point in short is that if apple releases more and more products that are initially price too high i think they risk causing people to have scepticism of their newer prices.

 

[Tycho24]

You'd think so wouldn't you

For sure, for sure...
It should be $999... EXACTLY the price of a Chromebook Pixel, though it clearly is much better designed, uses some newer technologies(newest gen proc, force touch trackpad, etc), has a full fledged operating system & full suite of free apps, obviously would have much better support, and certainly has the option to be used as a netbook OR full fledged notebook.
But, yup!!!!!! I'm like you.... shocked & amazed that it isn't PRECISELY the same price as a Google netbook that has no real OS & will only ever be a netbook.

/sarcasm

 

[numlock]

For sure, for sure...
It should be $999... EXACTLY the price of a Chromebook Pixel, though it clearly is much better designed, uses some newer technologies(newest gen proc, force touch trackpad, etc), has a full fledged operating system & full suite of free apps, obviously would have much better support, and certainly has the option to be used as a netbook OR full fledged notebook.
But, yup!!!!!! I'm like you.... shocked & amazed that it isn't PRECISELY the same price as a Google netbook that has no real OS & will only ever be a netbook.

/sarcasm

sorry but who cares if its a newer processor? it certainly isnt faster.

i dont know if you have ever had to call apple up for support but they are the worst i have experienced.

 

[jamesryanbell]

sorry but who cares if its a newer processor? it certainly isnt faster.

I took the comment as referring to efficiency, not speed. But your point stands. It's certainly not a fast processor in any regard.

 

[numlock]

I took the comment as referring to efficiency, not speed. But your point stands. It's certainly not a fast processor in any regard.

i would assume that would be the most important especially with the "full fledged operating system" and a "full suite of free apps".

i will wait until it goes on sale before classifying the new keyboard and trackpad as a pro or con.

 

[paulold]

My main question is why only one port on the new MacBook? The functionality is cool, but wouldn't having two USB-C ports have been cooler? It must be fairly common to want your device plugged in while also having an available USB port. Adapters are annoying. Feels like this was more of a design decision - that they just wanted to impress folks with the image of only one port. That's nice, but in reality doesn't it kinda suck a little?

 

[zhenya]

I think you need to step back and understand the design that Apple was looking at here. (And Apple, unlike almost every other computer company, is a design firm first). The MacBook is intended to be the laptop distilled as much as is currently technically possible. Yes, adding another port might have been convenient, but it would have been counter to the design intent, and there would have been some sacrifice to that simplicity.

Honestly, even though the MacBook isn't for me, I think it's great that they are willing to build it. Like it or not, this is pure Apple - willing to 'say no' to virtually everything in order to simplify.