Jony Ive "hears" your macbook criticism

[New_Mac_Smell]

There is no such thing as "gaming hardware". There are only laptops with powerful internals that can be used to run high demand apps, in this case CUDA optimized software is only possible with nVidia GPUs. nVidia Pascal GPUs enabled performances on-par with desktop GPUs from the previous generations.
Or are you one of those who think that nVidia = videogames?

And, by the way, not that the rMBP is using ECC RAM or is so much stabler than other laptops, even more so with the last iterations of MacOS.

nVidea GTX are gaming GPUs however. They do state that on their website "NVIDIA GeForce® GTX is the ultimate PC gaming experience". What you want is a Quadro if you want to do CUDA development or anything professional with it "Quadro has the most advanced ecosystem of hardware, software and tools to transform the disruptive challenges of today into business successes of tomorrow.".

So no nVidea do not equal video games. However the GTX series most definitely does, and if Apple went ahead and put a GTX in there it would be either for gaming or for gimped professional work. So I'm saying I'd love an nVidea card in there, CC could take advantage of CUDA after all, but it'd want to be a Quadro.

Just as a comparison, with AMD the RX series is "High Performance Gaming at Your Desk or on the Go". And the Pro series which is in the MBP is "The AMD PRO A-Series processor portfolio delivers real-world performance, meaningful innovation, and dependability optimized to meet the evolving budget and IT needs of businesses today and tomorrow.". I.e. their professional grade laptop graphics.

So swap a Radeon Pro for the Quadro, not for the GTX unless you want it for gaming. Just as a lot of people are saying they want a GTX1060 or something.

 

[Queen6]

nVidea GTX are gaming GPUs however. They do state that on their website "NVIDIA GeForce® GTX is the ultimate PC gaming experience". What you want is a Quadro if you want to do CUDA development or anything professional with it "Quadro has the most advanced ecosystem of hardware, software and tools to transform the disruptive challenges of today into business successes of tomorrow.".

So no nVidea do not equal video games. However the GTX series most definitely does, and if Apple went ahead and put a GTX in there it would be either for gaming or for gimped professional work. So I'm saying I'd love an nVidea card in there, CC could take advantage of CUDA after all, but it'd want to be a Quadro.

Just as a comparison, with AMD the RX series is "High Performance Gaming at Your Desk or on the Go". And the Pro series which is in the MBP is "The AMD PRO A-Series processor portfolio delivers real-world performance, meaningful innovation, and dependability optimized to meet the evolving budget and IT needs of businesses today and tomorrow.". I.e. their professional grade laptop graphics.

So swap a Radeon Pro for the Quadro, not for the GTX unless you want it for gaming. Just as a lot of people are saying they want a GTX1060 or something.

As ever much depends on the usage, personally I can get away with a heavyweight gaming notebook as a Workstation as I don't have any overly exotic requirements such as Xeon processors or ECC RAM, certainly a Quadro GPU would be a better option, equally a GTX 1070 can get the job done.

A Dell 17" Precision 7710 would be double the price if my current heavy lifter. As Leman stated the lines are converging with more and more utilising gaming hardware for professional purpose as the stability and performance is now within the envelope, given a fully loaded 17" Precision 7720 exceeds $13K your going to be wanting to monetise that hardware and some think Mac's are expensive.

Was really a fluke I started using gaming notebooks for professional purpose, so far no real issue as long as you can tone down the lighting I also tend to like the uniqueness, and they can be more fun to work with than a more traditional corporate box with some having genuinely useful features.

Q-6

 

[/V\acpower]

Will they really bring back any the following?
- one or two USB 3.0 type A ports
- the "classic" keyboard keys
- real function keys
- magsafe
- upgradable RAM
- user-accessible storage (SATA/M.2/etc)
- user-swappable battery
- non-glossy displays

Because that's what most people are complaining about.

I don't think that anyone is asking for the 2007 MacBook Pro.

 

[SteveJUAE]

nVidea GTX are gaming GPUs however. They do state that on their website "NVIDIA GeForce® GTX is the ultimate PC gaming experience". What you want is a Quadro if you want to do CUDA development or anything professional with it "Quadro has the most advanced ecosystem of hardware, software and tools to transform the disruptive challenges of today into business successes of tomorrow.".

So no nVidea do not equal video games. However the GTX series most definitely does, and if Apple went ahead and put a GTX in there it would be either for gaming or for gimped professional work. So I'm saying I'd love an nVidea card in there, CC could take advantage of CUDA after all, but it'd want to be a Quadro.

Just as a comparison, with AMD the RX series is "High Performance Gaming at Your Desk or on the Go". And the Pro series which is in the MBP is "The AMD PRO A-Series processor portfolio delivers real-world performance, meaningful innovation, and dependability optimized to meet the evolving budget and IT needs of businesses today and tomorrow.". I.e. their professional grade laptop graphics.

So swap a Radeon Pro for the Quadro, not for the GTX unless you want it for gaming. Just as a lot of people are saying they want a GTX1060 or something.

I see you have been completely duped by AMD

I know what you have done by trying to lift some txt from AMD. IE you went to the graphics pull down and found the 500 series was the RX chip only, so you clicked on the pull down again in graphics, selected Pro and lifted the text

"The AMD PRO A-Series processor portfolio delivers real-world performance, meaningful innovation, and dependability optimized to meet the evolving budget and IT needs of businesses today and tomorrow."

I think you will find this relates to AMD Pro APU and nothing to do with the graphics (MBP) . The quote also relates to an AMD utility to control certain times and advance features for IT etc. Why it there under graphics is a mystery as its the same page under processors also repeated just under graphics tab with no sub category selected

However, You seem to lift the text as it suited your case opposed to reading and understanding in your haste to prove a point. The clues were there especially as only Lenovo and HP laptops were listed

Sorry no chicken dinner for this complete miss/unrelated quote

 

[ctrlzone]

Not all..
The keyboard either needs to be changed back to a scissor design (Like the Magic Keyboard) or the reliability issues must be addressed.

true

 

[jerry70450]

Not all..
The keyboard either needs to be changed back to a scissor design (Like the Magic Keyboard) or the reliability issues must be addressed.

If you look at alot of the reviews, alot of people initially dislike the keyboard, but grows to love them over a week or two. Maybe people are being too judgmental before they try it?

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

I see you have been completely duped by AMD

I know what you have done by trying to lift some txt from AMD. IE you went to the graphics pull down and found the 500 series was the RX chip only, so you clicked on the pull down again in graphics, selected Pro and lifted the text

"The AMD PRO A-Series processor portfolio delivers real-world performance, meaningful innovation, and dependability optimized to meet the evolving budget and IT needs of businesses today and tomorrow."

I think you will find this relates to AMD Pro APU and nothing to do with the graphics (MBP) . The quote also relates to an AMD utility to control certain times and advance features for IT etc. Why it there under graphics is a mystery as its the same page under processors also repeated just under graphics tab with no sub category selected

However, You seem to lift the text as it suited your case opposed to reading and understanding in your haste to prove a point. The clues were there especially as only Lenovo and HP laptops were listed

Sorry no chicken dinner for this complete miss/unrelated quote

Not really any need for that but fine...

Not sure what point you think I was trying to prove either, so don't really see the need for your comment.

All I was saying, which I think you'd find is quite true. Is that the GTX is a gaming card, and the Quadro is a professional card. The AMD Pro is a professional card. I don't believe the cards available in the MBP are available consumer or otherwise, so they have very little specific information on them. https://www.pcworld.com/article/309...-radeon-pro-wx-series-to-replace-firepro.html

I don't see your point in this what-so-ever other than attacking someone for pointing out basic truths. If you are one of those people crying for a GTX to be put into a professional notebook then show me why a gaming GPU is better than a professional class GPU. Don't just attack people for commenting on the differences.

 

[turbineseaplane]

If you look at alot of the reviews, alot of people initially dislike the keyboard, but grows to love them over a week or two. Maybe people are being too judgmental before they try it?

I wasn't making any comments about that part...talking about the reliability only.

 

[ascender]

Will they really bring back any the following?
- one or two USB 3.0 type A ports
- the "classic" keyboard keys
- real function keys
- magsafe
- upgradable RAM
- user-accessible storage (SATA/M.2/etc)
- user-swappable battery
- non-glossy displays

Because that's what most people are complaining about.

I thought the biggest gripe about the new laptops were the lack of a 32GB RAM option. That appeared by far to be the thing most people were shouting loudly about since the new models came in.

I do remember similar complaints about non-glossy displays, but to me that seems like going back 5 years or so. Same deal with the batteries.

As for the others, here's my tuppence worth, but I totally acknowledge that these are my own subjective views based on how I use my MBP. I think its good that Apple have recognised some of the criticisms and the fact they're making a new Mac Pro as well as the iMac Pro would seem that they have done more than recognise criticisms - they've taken them onboard and are going to produce a new product which should address them. Maybe they'll do the same with the laptop lineup?

Keyboard? Have you tried typing on one of the new keyboards and then gone back to the previous design? To me its a sea of mushiness. Like what I imagine it would be as a man to stick on a pair of big high heels and then have to run for a bus. The reliability issue of the new keyboards appears to be a very real issue. But in amongst the initial noise (no pun intended) about the keyboards, lots of people do like them.

Magsafe - I've not missed it, but I suspect that will be the same for most people until the first time someone nearly pulls their laptop off the table. Its one of those things I'd welcome back, don't get me wrong. Its not a deal-breaker for me.

Function keys? I don't love the TouchBar, but I don't hate it either. The virtual keys work just fine and feel fine once you get used to them. I certainly wouldn't choose it on a laptop as an option, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't like it and have customised it so get quite a lot of use out of it.

HDMI and SD Card - For me, I never used them enough to miss them. I have a couple of cables/adapters/dongles in my bag should the need arise. Truth be told, as an ex-techy, I've always carried some around with me.

USB 3.0 - I replaced a couple of cables and have the aforementioned adapters. It was extra expense - not much compared to the laptop - and I'm over it now. I like the premise of USB-C - a single port that can do everything, but did Apple have to go all-in on it? Who knows. I remember when USB first came out and what a crapshoot it was to buy usb devices, or get adapters for devices which refused to make the switch, working drivers etc, so by comparison this switch feels like a minor bump in the road as opposed to a massive crater.

Battery - How long do most people need a battery to last while doing light work? User swappable batteries are fine, but if you're doing what people seem to term as true pro work away from a power source, you'd need to buy a few spare ones at least surely?

Storage - you can order these things with some pretty damn big internal SSDs now. With the speed, form factor and price of (really big) external HDDs being what they are now, do people really want/need to have the ability to swap internal ones out on the go? Just seems like a ball ache to me.

I get that not everybody's use case is the same as mine. You'll struggle to find two people who use their laptops in the same way when you analyse their workflow, so it is really difficult sometimes to see people complaining about feature x (or the lack of feature x) and wondering why they rely on it so bad. Sometimes I wonder why people even have a laptop as it seems like what they really need/want is a desktop. But maybe Apple don't make a powerful-enough desktop?

Its pretty clear that as with a lot of their products, they are aiming for the centre of the market, producing stuff which fits their design aesthetic whilst appealing to the largest number of users. They produce what they think is the best range of products for you, rather than producing 15 different models of one product catering to every niche. I don't know if that's really different from what they've always done though?

 

[turbineseaplane]

Keyboard? Have you tried typing on one of the new keyboards and then gone back to the previous design? To me its a sea of mushiness.

One a 2015 15" right now with a 2017 MBP 13 next to it.
Highly subjective of course, but what you call "mushy" I call "comfort for my fingers to move up and down and flow".

The new keyboards make my fingers hurt after a bit and I find I have to be quite conscious of what my hands are "doing" all the time (like resting on the keys) so as to not accidentally press keys.

I prefer the old keys night and day and all year long as it just works better for me when lots of typing is involved.
And, of course, the old design is super reliable too.
[doublepost=1512666595][/doublepost]

Magsafe - I've not missed it

The feature you don't miss until you do... (as you said) haha


HDMI, SD, USB-A slots:

All subjective and adaptable of course. Personally I use the HDMI & USB-A slots at least a few times a week, so for now it's really nice to have that built in for me.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Not really any need for that but fine...

Not sure what point you think I was trying to prove either, so don't really see the need for your comment.

All I was saying, which I think you'd find is quite true. Is that the GTX is a gaming card, and the Quadro is a professional card. The AMD Pro is a professional card. I don't believe the cards available in the MBP are available consumer or otherwise, so they have very little specific information on them. https://www.pcworld.com/article/309...-radeon-pro-wx-series-to-replace-firepro.html

I don't see your point in this what-so-ever other than attacking someone for pointing out basic truths. If you are one of those people crying for a GTX to be put into a professional notebook then show me why a gaming GPU is better than a professional class GPU. Don't just attack people for commenting on the differences.

Sorry if you cant admit or understand in trying to pass off the promotional text for a CPU for a graphics because you liked the text but did not check, then I do not know how to help you

A simple whoops and move on was all that is needed instead of this fluff trying to deflect your blunder

 

[john123]

I've been using Apple laptops for nearly 20 years. TWENTY YEARS!

And this is the first iteration that I truly find to be a step backwards for my own use. I tried one for a month and returned it.

Sadly, I believe that Jony is listening, but I also believe he doesn't care, because it doesn't matter. People like to point to sales as some magical indicator that "Hey, you're wrong--people love the new rMBP!"

But that conclusion does not necessarily follow. It could simply be that lots of people simply "need" a new computer, and they don't feel that strongly about the negatives. (Or for them they aren't negatives. Or they've convinced themselves they aren't negatives. Etc.)

 

[turbineseaplane]

Sadly, I believe that Jony is listening, but I also believe he doesn't care, because it doesn't matter.

Agreed and it bums me out.
I just wish they'd allow the Mac notebooks to have more divergence in the line.

Not every single one has to focus on thinness and removal of useful ports and that keyboard, does it?

It's almost like "why have so many models if they are going to be this similar?

 

[polbit]

In the end, the new MBPs are making YOU adapt to the new technology, not the TECH adapt to you, and Apple is getting incremental profit from this. That to me is the essence of the issue I have with current Apple.

2016 MBP has been out for over a year now, so let's talk about how the world has caught up:

1. USB-C - Where's this mass adoption? There are still millions of devices with USB-A, micro USB, mini USB, HDMI, Display Port, mini Display Port, lightning, etc., etc. USB-C is actually a big mess right now with all the crappy cables, lack of support for TB in some implementations, and so on. Most of the devices I plug into my MBP as of today, I still have to use a dongle, unless it's a TB3 device...

2. SD Card - there is simply no plausible explanation other than profit as to why Apple would remove it. SD Cards are still the most widely used physical medium for storage.

3. Touchbar - After the 5 minutes of "wow, this looks cool" wore off, I have not found a single use case where it's better than a function key row. All I use it for is for volume and brightness controls. There is no application that makes a compelling reason to use it. Simply pointless.

4. Keyboard - I went from hating it, to enjoying the precision, but the final verdict is - key travel is necessary for long-term comfort. I type a lot, and my hands/fingertips get tired and start aching much faster on my MBP than on any other recent computer. I have now relegated most of my initial text input to my Asus. That's nothing to say about the reliability, which is a big unknown.

Those are the items I care about, and that's what leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[john123]

In the end, the new MBPs are making YOU adapt to the new technology, not the TECH adapt to you, and Apple is getting incremental profit from this. That to me is the essence of the issue I have with current Apple.

2016 MBP has been out for over a year now, so let's talk about how the world has caught up:

1. USB-C - Where's this mass adoption? There are still millions of devices with USB-A, micro USB, mini USB, HDMI, Display Port, mini Display Port, lightning, etc., etc. USB-C is actually a big mess right now with all the crappy cables, lack of support for TB in some implementations, and so on. Most of the devices I plug into my MBP as of today, I still have to use a dongle, unless it's a TB3 device...

2. SD Card - there is simply no plausible explanation other than profit as to why Apple would remove it. SD Cards are still the most widely used physical medium for storage.

3. Touchbar - After the 5 minutes of "wow, this looks cool" wore off, I have not found a single use case where it's better than a function key row. All I use it for is for volume and brightness controls. There is no application that makes a compelling reason to use it. Simply pointless.

4. Keyboard - I went from hating it, to enjoying the precision, but the final verdict is - key travel is necessary for long-term comfort. I type a lot, and my hands/fingertips get tired and start aching much faster on my MBP than on any other recent computer. I have now relegated most of my initial text input to my Asus. That's nothing to say about the reliability, which is a big unknown.

Those are the items I care about, and that's what leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

So much this. Your first sentence is 100% spot on.

I can live with the dongles, and I can live with having to plug in an SD card adapter via USB, even though I like neither. (It's annoying, but this isn't the first time Apple has cut off port options to try to be forward-thinking). I'd have been so much happier if the left side had been MagSafe, a pair of USB-Cs, a USB-A, and the headphone jack, and the right side a USB-C, a USB-A, and the SD slot. That would have been an EQUAL number of ports as the previous generation and still would have afforded people tons of flexibility.

But the other two issues you raised drive me nuts. And as a dog owner, not having MagSafe is a big deal. I actually hate MagSafe in day-to-day use. But it's saved my butt a couple times.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Keyboard - I went from hating it, to enjoying the precision, but the final verdict is - key travel is necessary for long-term comfort.

I echo this completely.
The keyboard is great if you are CMD-Tab switching and doing some light work/task switching/browsing, etc..

But as soon as I need to actually get typing done, the pain comes on before long and I find myself wishing for a different keyboard. I reaffirm this view every so often with the 2017 model we have around the house.

 

[Maven1975]

I want a freaking quad core 13” MBP. (Intel is to blame for the delay on the higher wattage chips)

It better have x4 PCI lanes and not intentionally hampered to x2!

Why? Because Apple has been claming that the 13” did not have enough room for a dGPU forever! This has been a lie and only helped them with bottom line figures. If it was TRULY the case, and they cared about the “Pro” line, a tiny increase in thickness or footprint would have eliminated the issue.

This was going on with Jobs around too. So it’s not a leadership issue, it a flat out slap in the face to those invested in the ecosystem and long term users.

Apple, do the right thing here. If you don’t want to increase the size, give us a 25-30w quad core chip, x4 PCI lanes and I will add an eGPU myself.

 

[dblissmn]

I think the Retina models hit the sweet spot; the displays became far less glare-prone; the SSD remained replaceable; the ports are highly standardized; they have built-in SD card reading; the platform feels modern yet is more or less repairable. The problem with the TB3 models is they've become appliances and inflexible ones at that. No way should the SSD be on the logic board. Touch Bar is almost impossible to repair. And there are some stupid design mistakes; the TB3/USB-C ports are too close together especially when using adapters that are inherently necessary with such a one-size-fits-all standard, the butterfly-switch keyboard is awkward too from a maintenance standpoint and in some cases typing, even though it's far nicer looking especially when backlit.

 

[The Mercurian]

I think the Retina models hit the sweet spot; the displays became far less glare-prone; the SSD remained replaceable; the ports are highly standardized; they have built-in SD card reading; the platform feels modern yet is more or less repairable. The problem with the TB3 models is they've become appliances and inflexible ones at that. No way should the SSD be on the logic board. Touch Bar is almost impossible to repair. And there are some stupid design mistakes; the TB3/USB-C ports are too close together especially when using adapters that are inherently necessary with such a one-size-fits-all standard, the butterfly-switch keyboard is awkward too from a maintenance standpoint and in some cases typing, even though it's far nicer looking especially when backlit.

Well retina SSD's became replaceable but that will void your warranty if you try it at home.
Stark contrast to the Dell XPS which still has user replaceable drive and memory - big attraction for me I must say.

 

[2ilent8cho]

I would like a new Macbook Pro, i like the touch bar, and the keyboard is fine when i have played in store. But i am not happy about MagSafe removal as that IS a step backwards. Then there are things that put a smile on my face, that remind me of the day i got my first mac like the tone it plays when you switch a mac on and the glowing Apple logo, both of which have also been removed, yeah i get that they don't effect the function of the machine, but it makes them cool (at least for me).

Cool is what makes those who don't have one want one when they see it, and the Macbook is losing some of its cool.

 

[everythingapplerainbow]

But he won't do anything because you guys keep feeding him money.
Stop buying until they do something

 

[The Mercurian]

But he won't do anything because you guys keep feeding him money.
Stop buying until they do something

I agree but you are preaching to the choir here!

 

[William Payne]

In the end, the new MBPs are making YOU adapt to the new technology, not the TECH adapt to you, and Apple is getting incremental profit from this. That to me is the essence of the issue I have with current Apple.

2016 MBP has been out for over a year now, so let's talk about how the world has caught up:

1. USB-C - Where's this mass adoption? There are still millions of devices with USB-A, micro USB, mini USB, HDMI, Display Port, mini Display Port, lightning, etc., etc. USB-C is actually a big mess right now with all the crappy cables, lack of support for TB in some implementations, and so on. Most of the devices I plug into my MBP as of today, I still have to use a dongle, unless it's a TB3 device...

2. SD Card - there is simply no plausible explanation other than profit as to why Apple would remove it. SD Cards are still the most widely used physical medium for storage.

3. Touchbar - After the 5 minutes of "wow, this looks cool" wore off, I have not found a single use case where it's better than a function key row. All I use it for is for volume and brightness controls. There is no application that makes a compelling reason to use it. Simply pointless.

4. Keyboard - I went from hating it, to enjoying the precision, but the final verdict is - key travel is necessary for long-term comfort. I type a lot, and my hands/fingertips get tired and start aching much faster on my MBP than on any other recent computer. I have now relegated most of my initial text input to my Asus. That's nothing to say about the reliability, which is a big unknown.

Those are the items I care about, and that's what leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

There are a bunch of USB-C stuff out there in the hard drive world. If you look at companies specifically making storage for and catered to Mac Users you will find a bunch of USB-C/Thunderbolt 3. In other areas maybe not so much.

 

[William Payne]

My only issue with magsafe as a must is that yes its a great idea and I can see exactly why they had it. But if it is a really really really big must have then every laptop out there would have it, there are way more windows laptops in the world then MacBooks and none of them have magsafe and while I know it happens you dont see windows laptops flying around day in and day out from not having magsafe.

 

[Jg75]

Doesn't feel like I'm typing on an on-screen keyboard at all. Have you even tried using the keyboard for more than a few minutes? I much prefer it to the old.

I kind of like it too. The problem is that it isn´t reliable enough for the premium price. The main argument for paying a premium price is that you get a premium product that will last for years.