Jony Ive "hears" your macbook criticism

[ugru]

A mobile GTX 1060 has a TDP of 80W... and you want to stick that in a MacBook? Even undervolted and underclocked that would not be possible.

No. Read carefully what i wrote.

I want a 1050ti or 1060 max-Q in a new redesigned MacBook Pro as thick ad 2015 one.

Easily doable if you improve the cooling system and revert to magsafe without some dumb power limit.

There are thin and powerful laptop out there even with 1070 or 1080 Max-Q GPU...


Kaby Lake Refresh H mobile CPU are rumored to have 6 cores next year

 

[Falhófnir]

I think this would have a lot more weight if he’d specifically referenced the complaints that they were hearing. The problem with that would be that it could be interpreted as an admission that (for example) the keyboard has a faulty design which could open Apple up to lawsuits.

 

[gobikerider]

No. Read carefully what i wrote.

I want a 1050ti or 1060 max-Q in a new redesigned MacBook Pro as thick ad 2015 one.

Easily doable if you improve the cooling system and revert to magsafe without some dumb power limit.

There are thin and powerful laptop out there even with 1070 or 1080 Max-Q GPU...


Kaby Lake Refresh H mobile CPU are rumored to have 6 cores next year

Apple is not going to haphazardly switch to Nvidia, they probaly were one of the biggest advocates for the Intel+AMD chip and that is what you will see next summer. I gaurentee it.
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MAGSAFE !

HDMI !

Battery life !

Battery life is going to increase for sure but those other two will not happen.

 

[jdiamond]

Nobody has been asking for thinner laptops since the MacBook Air.

And I never heard a single person say "you know, it's a great laptop and all, but I do wish it had less ports." Yet these same folks will passionately rail against anyone who misses them.

 

[Falhófnir]

No. Read carefully what i wrote.

I want a 1050ti or 1060 max-Q in a new redesigned MacBook Pro as thick ad 2015 one.

Easily doable if you improve the cooling system and revert to magsafe without some dumb power limit.

There are thin and powerful laptop out there even with 1070 or 1080 Max-Q GPU...


Kaby Lake Refresh H mobile CPU are rumored to have 6 cores next year

None of the computers that have those components are as thin as even a 2015 MBP though, the surface book manages a 1050 (1060 on the 15” model) but it needs to have the cpu and gpu in completely separate parts of the computer to do it. The XPS that offers a H series cpu and GTX 1050 is much thicker than the MBP, probably closer to the unibody generation.

 

[MagicWok]

After using a 2017 MBP daily for a month, having upgraded from a 2015 MBP, I have found the decrease in weight (which importantly doesn't need to be directly linked to ever more thinness Apple) is noticeable and appreciated especially for my daily 1hr+ work commutes. The form factor of the thinner MBP in isolation is gorgeous, and I would encourage Apple to stick with this for a while if it serves to push further than they normally would with performance from higher powered parts.

I really like the keyboard, and my the great keys on my 2015 MBP feel mushy in comparison. The touch bar is not as dumb as I thought it would be, but it's not as clever as I think it could have been - or Apple hoped it would have been. Though that's conjecture on the last part. Subsequent releases will tell us!

The screen, which I didn't recall reading much of, is also much better. I was really surprised how well the display handles the upscaled 1680x1050 over the previous retina display. I'm very happy to have the extra screen real estate, and when combined with the greater contrast and colour it's the best laptop screen I've ever used so far for creative work and personal use.

I do not like that I am missing at least one USB3 Type A port, HDMI, Display/Thunderbolt port and a SD card port (seriously these things are thin already...).

I am moving gradually to USBC, but the reality is I will have to keep reminding myself to bring a dongle and that's frustrating and a tax on me really to do so. I didn't need to have to think, or remind myself previously.

I am waiting for the moment I wish I had magsafe again.

It's sad that I won't have any of the ports I miss on a portable MBP again, however if the payoff is we all move to everything USBC and/or wireless, then it will be worth it if/when we get there.

Here ends my random thoughts.

 

[leman]

Nobody has been asking for thinner laptops since the MacBook Air.

Since when is the MBP thinner than the MBA? The portability increases as the technology evolves. They have managed to put the full quad-core 45W CPU and a decent mid-range GPU in a thin and light chassis, great for both Apple and the customer. Few years ago this configuration was only available in a 2.5cm thick chassis. The power bracket is still identical to what Apple has always used, so as long as they are not dropping performance tiers to get the thinness, there is no reason to complain. You have a lot of examples in the industry — vendors going down to 15W CPUs in order to make their laptops thin with reasonable battery life. Apple doesn't do it.
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And I never heard a single person say "you know, it's a great laptop and all, but I do wish it had less ports." Yet these same folks will passionately rail against anyone who misses them.

Then look again. There were a lot of users who wanted USB-C before the 2016 model was released. We didn't want "less ports". We wanted industry-standard better ports. Which is exactly what we got.

 

[ugru]

None of the computers that have those components are as thin as even a 2015 MBP...

Are you sure?

There are at least 4 laptop models with Max-Q GTX 1080 or GTX 1070 that are nearly as thin as 2015...

2015 MBP 0.70"

Razr blade pro 0.88"
Aorus X5 MD 0,9"
ASUS ROG zephirus 0,71"
ACER Predator 0,74"

And in my post I was talking about 1050 Ti or 1060, pretty easy for apple engeneers...

 

[leman]

I want a 1050ti or 1060 max-Q in a new redesigned MacBook Pro as thick ad 2015 one.
Easily doable if you improve the cooling system and revert to magsafe without some dumb power limit.

... and reduce the battery size. Or, do what Microsoft did and host the downgraded CPU in a oversized display assembly that also dubs as an awkward tablet if needed.

There are thin and powerful laptop out there even with 1070 or 1080 Max-Q GPU...

None of them match the battery life and overall functionality of the MBP. Those laptops are usually one-trick pony, built around the powerful GPU at the expense of everything else. Again, not realistic. Apple only ever used 40W (max maybe 45W GPUs) in their laptops, and they had good reasons to do it. There is no magical new technology that would allow you to dissipate heat faster.

Razr blade pro 0.88"
Aorus X5 MD 0,9"
ASUS ROG zephirus 0,71"
ACER Predator 0,74"

Case in a point. Look at the smallest one of them, the ASUS. Still good 10% more volume then the 2015 model (since the Asus is wider and longer), 1/4 kg heavier and a whopping 50Wh battery. The largest of the bunch — Aorus, has a 94Whs battery, but is also half a kg heavier and whopping 50% larger (volume) than the 2015 MBP. Even the Microsoft Book 2 with 1060 can only fit a 80Wh battery despite being basically as large — or larger as the 2015 MBP and using a low-wattage CPU.

Btw, just found this, nothing unexpected here: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Surfa...ities-and-slower-response-times.264060.0.html

P.S. And besides, if you want a workstation, why are you taking gaming laptops as an example? Those have completely different design parameters. Workstations focus on stability, while gaming laptops are ok with occasional RAM error or two, since nobody will notice them anyway.

Kaby Lake Refresh H mobile CPU are rumored to have 6 cores next year

You probably mean Kaby Lake G. Kaby Lake H was released in Jan 2017 and is found in the current MBP (source: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/embedded/products/kaby-lake-h/overview.html)

As to Kaby Lake G, all leaks I saw show its a quad-core CPU with on-package Vega. For hex-core in mobile, its probably be Cannon Lake at earliest.

 

[Falhófnir]

Are you sure?

There are at least 4 laptop models with Max-Q GTX 1080 or GTX 1070 that are nearly as thin as 2015...

2015 MBP 0.70"

Razr blade pro 0.88"
Aorus X5 MD 0,9"
ASUS ROG zephirus 0,71"
ACER Predator 0,74"

And in my post I was talking about 1050 Ti or 1060, pretty easy for apple engeneers...

All either 17” which is a different ballpark, or configured specifically around that hardware making significant compromises like squeezing the keyboard right to the front of the top deck with a tiny trackpad off to the side, having minimal battery to free up more room in the chassis, having a giant footprint to increase internal volume (reflected in big screen bezels and higher weight) or having huge air intakes that you can’t cover without causing overheating/throttling.

Maybe if they brought back the 17” they might be able to squeeze in some more high powered internals, but in the current/previous 15” I think they’re stuck in the ballpark they’re in. A 1050 might be within reach of the previous design gen (as the successor to the 650 and 750 that they have used in the past). It’d be nice if they did offer a more powerful portable machine for those who want it, but I think the trade off would be it being either a significantly thicker, heavier 15” or a 17” both of which would be portable, but not as ultra mobile as what Apple are currently offering. Then there’s power draw, USB C is capped at 100W (I think) so you’re beginning to get tight on TDP availability

 

[ugru]

You probably mean Kaby Lake G. Kaby Lake H was released in Jan 2017 and is found in the current MBP (source: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/embedded/products/kaby-lake-h/overview.html).

No.

Some call them Kaby Lake-R H series (R stands for Refresh) others Coffe Lake H...

Let's call them "8th gen H"

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1207...on-processor-lists-leaked-coffee-lake-refresh
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All either 17” which is a different ballpark, or configured specifically around that hardware making significant compromises like squeezing the keyboard right to the front of the top deck with a tiny trackpad off to the side, having minimal battery to free up more room in the chassis, having a giant footprint to increase internal volume (reflected in big screen bezels and higher weight) or having huge air intakes that you can’t cover without causing overheating/throttling.

Only RAZR is 17", others are 15", and again they use GTX 1070/1080 for less than 1" thickness...

I am talking about an Apple 15 MBP with 1050TI or 1060 under 1"...perfectly doable...

 

[leman]

No.

Some call them Kaby Lake-R H series (R stands for Refresh) others Coffe Lake H...

Let's call them "8th gen H"

Ok, thanks for clarification. Just never saw this kind of terminology, the KL shrink is usually referred to as Cannon Lake. But all these names are getting really confusing

 

[ugru]

Then there’s power draw, USB C is capped at 100W (I think) so you’re beginning to get tight on TDP availability

FFS...does people read what others write? that is why I said bring back magsafe which, being a proprietary interface, can supply as much power as Apple needs

 

[HerbertDerb]

After returning three (3), 15" 2017's for the screen uniformity, there's only 1 thing i need.... Better screen for the 2018.

 

[jerry70450]

No.

Some call them Kaby Lake-R H series (R stands for Refresh) others Coffe Lake H...

Let's call them "8th gen H"

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1207...on-processor-lists-leaked-coffee-lake-refresh
[doublepost=1512508201][/doublepost]

Only RAZR is 17", others are 15", and again they use GTX 1070/1080 for less than 1" thickness...

I am talking about an Apple 15 MBP with 1050TI or 1060 under 1"...perfectly doable...

LOL if you know Apple, they're not the ones to use nVidia GPUs. We'll see a RX 580 in there at best.

 

[Falhófnir]

Only RAZR is 17", others are 15", and again they use GTX 1070/1080 for less than 1" thickness...

I am talking about an Apple 15 MBP with 1050TI or 1060 under 1"...perfectly doable...

Sure, if you returned to something like the unibody gen dimensions for a 15” (.95” thick, 14.35” wide and 9.82” deep, 5.6 lbs) then you could probably get there without any compromises - that fits your criteria, but I would still have my doubts about something a svelte as the retina or touchbar gen machines putting that much power under the hood and performing without significant throttling.

 

[Mike MA]

Before you all get carried away, remember that is a news article that hugely takes things out of context. Listen to the actual link, 43 minutes. It was a single line during a conversation about Apple Park.

It was not out of context, it was rather brought into context by Jony himself. Of course you still have to take this with a grain of salt. Nevertheless they are aware, not only as already officially stated on the Mac Pro, but obviously on the MacBook Pro as well. Better than nothing though, so let’s wait and see.

 

[Arran]

I hate MagSafe with a passion. Too many times that I've plugged it in, put it down and only realised once I return that the MagSafe popped off a little bit and my Mac hasn't charged.

Agree it's inconvenient when it happens without you realizing, but that's what it's designed to do: Break free without damaging either the cable's end or the macbook's power connector.

Anyone who's seen a laptop's USB port where the connector was subjected to sudden sideways force will understand. It's not pretty. Could require a new motherboard. $$$$
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Going to USB-C was a forward-thinking move (no more overpriced MagSafe cables that are overly delicate)...but not incorporating the MagSafe technology alongside USB-C makes no sense at all.

If you examine it closely, USB-C looks very fragile. Structurally, it reminds me of the old iPod 30-pin dock connector: Slim, delicate contacts on a thin blade within the socket, but a rigid metal casing and housing on the plug (which contains more thin delicate contacts). Fine in a controlled environment (office desk) but risky when mobile. Think of yourself sitting on an airport floor, plugged into the only free wall socket with fellow passengers rushing by.

 

[Queen6]

P.S. And besides, if you want a workstation, why are you taking gaming laptops as an example? Those have completely different design parameters. Workstations focus on stability, while gaming laptops are ok with occasional RAM error or two, since nobody will notice them anyway.

Don't knock them too much some of these gaming notebooks perform adequately well as portable workstations depending on the needs and role of the user. Some models offer all the MBP lacks for some users needs, equally nothing this powerful is going to have any extended usage away from the mains supply.

As for this thread is what it is. Apple's path with the Mac is clear, as much as this frustrates some of us, in no shape or form is Apple going to offer much more than it currently does. Apple's been positioning the Mac as an evermore up market consumer product for years now. Apple simply doesn't need the custom of the niche professional anymore, although it does seemingly seek approval from the same to bolster it's sales and marketing.

Q-6

 

[ugru]

P.S. And besides, if you want a workstation, why are you taking gaming laptops as an example? Those have completely different design parameters. Workstations focus on stability, while gaming laptops are ok with occasional RAM error or two, since nobody will notice them anyway.

There is no such thing as "gaming hardware". There are only laptops with powerful internals that can be used to run high demand apps, in this case CUDA optimized software is only possible with nVidia GPUs. nVidia Pascal GPUs enabled performances on-par with desktop GPUs from the previous generations.
Or are you one of those who think that nVidia = videogames?

And, by the way, not that the rMBP is using ECC RAM or is so much stabler than other laptops, even more so with the last iterations of MacOS.

 

[SteveJUAE]

... and reduce the battery size. Or, do what Microsoft did and host the downgraded CPU in a oversized display assembly that also dubs as an awkward tablet if needed.

Snip 8-<

None of them match the battery life and overall functionality of the MBP. Those laptops are usually one-trick pony, built around the powerful GPU at the expense of everything else.

Come on Leman your sounding more like Sandpete every day with this clickbait rhetoric

No one is denying the MBP is a premium consumer device with some bragging rights that probably most of the target audience will never use

It's niche appeal to a limited range of professionals by Apple own metrics is no different to the limited appeal of other devices in different areas - horses for courses

 

[leman]

Come on Leman your sounding more like Sandpete every day with this clickbait rhetoric

You'll have to excuse my sarcasm, its hard to maintain neutral tone if your discussion partner repeats slogans without wanting to look into details In this particular context, where we are talking about powerful GPUs in compact laptop enclosures, I am just trying to point out that there is no such thing as "free lunch". Between "portability", "battery life" and "powerful GPU" you can only pick two. And urgu is constantly ignoring this. An example: probably the most impressive machine in the given context is the Razer Blade 14", which packs a 1060 GTX in an enclosure of the 2015 MBP. However, the battery capacity is actually smaller than that of the 2016/2017 MBP models.

One can criticise Apple on many grounds, but a thing that I never saw Apple do is mislead customers with specs. They properly and honestly advertise the hardware they ship, and you can except that it will perform as advertised. At the same time, plenty of other vendors simply advertise their CPUs as i5 or i7 (which doesn't tell much) or ship underclocked or heavily thermally constrained versions of existing hardware.

 

[ctrlzone]

Will they really bring back any the following?
- one or two USB 3.0 type A ports
- the "classic" keyboard keys
- real function keys
- magsafe
- upgradable RAM
- user-accessible storage (SATA/M.2/etc)
- user-swappable battery
- non-glossy displays

Because that's what most people are complaining about.

no, not one of them will come, and thats good because this is all bad

 

[leman]

There is no such thing as "gaming hardware".

Sure is. It already starts with the GPU design (Do you optimise for flexible execution or for texturig bandwidth? What is the execution granularity? Whats the ratio of ALUs to samplers? Do you have dedicated primitive assembly hardware? and so on and so on). Games require a rather different hardware profile, but the difference is gradually eroding. And of course, things like video processing can map rather well to hardware that is specifically optimised for gaming, since they share a lot of algorithmic properties. And then of course you have some things that vendors like to turn on and off, either in hardware or in software.

You are right of course that modern GPUs generally use the same chip for gaming and professional configurations. But even then you can prioritise different things. For a gaming machine, its ok to clock it as high as possible, even if you run higher risk of introducing errors (since a corrupted texel or two won't matter anyway). Professional machines generally use lower clocked VRAM and prioritise stability. There is a good reason why pro workstations with fast GPUs are still large and heavy. Because you know, you can't cram a fast GPU into a thin chassis without some sacrifices. This is also why I call thin and light gaming laptops "one trick ponies".

 

[turbineseaplane]

no, not one of them will come, and thats good because this is all bad

Not all..
The keyboard either needs to be changed back to a scissor design (Like the Magic Keyboard) or the reliability issues must be addressed.