Jumping Ship!

[radiogoober]

Fairly scathing review of the HP TouchPad:

http://shawnblanc.net/2011/07/hp-touchpad-review/

After nearly a week with the new HP TouchPad and webOS 3.0 my overall impression is that the TouchPad is less than the sum of its parts. There is nothing the TouchPad does that the iPad cannot except play Flash video (sometimes). I could not find one feature or function that was significant or compelling enough to take the TouchPad seriously compared to the iPad.

When I picked the TouchPad up from its box the first thing I noticed was how much heavier it is than my iPad 2

After using an iPad or iPad 2 for the last 18 months, the plastic back of the TouchPad instantly felt cheaper and flimsier. The whole shell is bendable and flexible. If I were to hold the device in landscape mode with one hand on each of the two sides I am confident that I could twist and crack it.

My TouchPad loves to be in landscape mode. If I’m holding it in portrait orientation I have to watch out because it will rotate into Landscape at the hint of a tilt. Trying to get the screen to then rotate back into portrait usually takes several seconds. Sometimes I shake it up and down to see if that will help but it never does.

I have heard so many good things about webOS that I was truly expecting to be impressed by the TouchPad and to enjoy webOS. Alas, using the TouchPad for the past week has not been impressive or enjoyable. And it’s not for a lack of apps — I was able to find a native TouchPad app for nearly all my “killer app” needs.

....

But just because there are features of webOS that I would love to see find their way into iOS, I would rather use the iPad and iOS of 2010 than the TouchPad of today. Because webOS — as clever as it may be — is not a delight to use. It is slow, awkward, and requires a great deal of determination.

Or, put another way, webOS is clever but not fun.

Booting up the TouchPad takes about 1 minute and 10 seconds. (For comparison: my original iPad boots up in 26 seconds; my iPad 2 in 24.)

Flash works better than I expected but worse than I’d like.

I was unable to watch a 720p video on Devour’s home page, but I was able to watch some shorter, lower resolution videos from YouTube and Hulu. I also was unable to watch the latest episode of Put This On without it stuttering and downsamping to a lower resolution. So, while waiting for the episode to buffer on the TouchPad, I pulled out my iPad, navigated to the site, and watched the the show in full-screen at 720p resolution. Stay classy, Flash.

In the browser’s settings you can disable Flash if you like, or you can choose to not have it autoload and play when you visit a site. However, the device requires a reboot for the preferences to take place. I had selected to disable Flash yet Flash videos were still viewable and even Rdio worked.

On the iPad, which doesn’t have Flash at all, most video sites serve you the native video file with no trouble. On the TouchPad, when Flash is disabled, you get nothing:

In theory, the TouchPad gives you “the full web”. In reality you get less.

As a tech writer it was great to be able to use and live with the TouchPad for a while. There are many things I appreciate about webOS, and I’m glad I was able to spend some time with a non-Apple device for once. But, alas, the TouchPad is far less likable than I expected it would be. As it is I would not recommend it to anyone I know — even my friends with webOS phones.

Sounds like a sad, second-rate device. It's crazy how these companies can bring these products to market knowing that they are inferior to the current competition. Simply blows my mind.

 

[tstarks33]

I have 0 interest in the touchpad, but that wasn't really a scathing review - he said pretty much what most of the other reviews have said, and 99% of the negatives he mentioned could be fixed with a software update. Some of his negatives are just silly - screenshots? Your DRM'd itunes music won't play? Come on... the different boot times are interesting, but I haven't restarted my ipad in weeks. I'm not interested in defending the touchpad, but I can easily see how most of the issues this reviewer had wouldn't really be an issue for a touchpad owner. None seem to be serious and it seems like a good first step for HP.

 

[JOHNGAETANO]

I have owned the following tablets and at the end of the day, the iPad 2 is the best. It is the most stable, it doesn't crash, it has the fastest browser, and has the best WIFI, and 3G speeds compared to everything else. It's not as customizable, but at the end of the day, the iPad 2 does everything else better than everyone else. Period.

1. iPad 1
2. iPad 2
3. Galaxy Tab 7"
4. Xoom
5. Playbook
6. Galaxy Tab 10.1
7. Touchpad
8. HTC Flyer
9. Sprint EVO View Tab

 

[MassacrMan]

I have owned the following tablets and at the end of the day, the iPad 2 is the best. It is the most stable, it doesn't crash, it has the fastest browser, and has the best WIFI, and 3G speeds compared to everything else. It's not as customizable, but at the end of the day, the iPad 2 does everything else better than everyone else. Period.

1. iPad 1
2. iPad 2
3. Galaxy Tab 7"
4. Xoom
5. Playbook
6. Galaxy Tab 10.1
7. Touchpad
8. HTC Flyer
9. Sprint EVO View Tab

Two questions:

Do you still own all of those?

Isn't the Evo View the exact same as the Flyer?

 

[JOHNGAETANO]

I only own the iPad2 right now.

The EVO View has a 3G radio, and the Flyer is WIFI only.


JOHN

 

[steadysignal]

Just substitute "BRAND X" with any Apple iDevice competitor.

All these threads sound the same.

...

Anyway, I'm not trolling here, I'm just trying to let people know that my feeling on the BRAND X in general and maybe some will take a look at it and feel as I do that it just is a better fit then iOS.

-BRAND X User

and don't forget to come on over to supergreatBRANDX.com blog where i promote other BRAND X drivel.

 

[bocomo]

I agree with most of what you've said. HP IS trying to get it's OS onto other branded products and it has potential to pick up. FWIW I enjoyed Web OS more than I did Honeycomb.

The reason you've said Web OS is going to fail is the reason I'm using an iPad 2, at the end of the day I want the biggest selection of apps and over Web OS and Android Apple has that.

It doesn't hurt that I don't find Android's OS to be smooth (i've touched on this in other threads) but I enjoyed Web OS and it's setup and style. It was refreshing coming from the Grid look of iOS.

I don't see what any of this has to do with anything though. Most people that buy an iPad don't really use many apps, they like youtube the web browser and email.. maybe a few other neat tricks. For OP maybe those are his only needs, in which case the HP tab is a fine alternative.

Look, the more tabs HP sells the more incentive for apple to innovate. I PRAY Web OS catches on so we can get some serious competition outside of android.

link?

 

[MassacrMan]

Well, I held and used a TouchPad yesterday; It feels thicker yes but not by much. The weight of it was no problem at all, so the form factor of it is satisfactory to me personally.

As for the UI, it was snappy and very responsive. But, I'll pass. I still like my iPad 1 better.

 

[Slip Jigs]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

What's the battery life on these devices?

 

[-Ken-]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

What's the battery life on these devices?

8 to 10 hours

 

[Tomacorno]

Why on earth would you buy 4 different tablets within 6 months? And the Xoom sucked at launch (and probably does now, but who knows). You're definitely right that the ipad is the easiest to use, but some of us want more from our OS.

The funny thing to me about these threads is the feeling that the OPs just really really want to like something that is not Apple. And that is fine if they just don't like Apple products, however, pretending superiority before it exists does not make sense. This thread reminds me very strongly of when the Xoom came out and there was a rash of posts about how it was going to blow the iPad away and it was so much better and...it plays Flash! Now, a few months later, you see this, "the Xoom sucked at launch." You did not get that from the switcher testimonials of the time!

I think the BrandX poster captured the generic nature of the THIS is the tablet that blows the iPad away threads. The reason that is so important to people is more elusive. There were tablets before the iPad they just did not have the right mix of features and ease of use and infrastructure to create a market. Something that Apple has done quite well.

 

[tstarks33]

The funny thing to me about these threads is the feeling that the OPs just really really want to like something that is not Apple. And that is fine if they just don't like Apple products, however, pretending superiority before it exists does not make sense. This thread reminds me very strongly of when the Xoom came out and there was a rash of posts about how it was going to blow the iPad away and it was so much better and...it plays Flash! Now, a few months later, you see this, "the Xoom sucked at launch." You did not get that from the switcher testimonials of the time!

I think the BrandX poster captured the generic nature of the THIS is the tablet that blows the iPad away threads. The reason that is so important to people is more elusive. There were tablets before the iPad they just did not have the right mix of features and ease of use and infrastructure to create a market. Something that Apple has done quite well.

It goes both ways, though. There are PLENTY of people who like something simply BECAUSE it is from Apple. Many people don't seem to remember that the iPhone, at launch, was actually pretty underwhelming. There were no 3rd party apps, and it was basically a touch cell phone that had slow (edge!) internet capabilities. Yet, many people trumpeted it as the best thing since sliced bread. That's what I find interesting... sure, we claim that the touchpad and the rest of the tablets (non-apple) have no apps, have this issue, that issue, etc and dismiss them outright. However, the iphone launched with many of the same issues (no apps, no mms, no cut/paste, etc), and, over the next year or two, Apple turned it into the best phone around. Why is it impossible for someone to do the same with respect to tablets?

 

[Fernandez21]

It goes both ways, though. There are PLENTY of people who like something simply BECAUSE it is from Apple. Many people don't seem to remember that the iPhone, at launch, was actually pretty underwhelming. There were no 3rd party apps, and it was basically a touch cell phone that had slow (edge!) internet capabilities. Yet, many people trumpeted it as the best thing since sliced bread. That's what I find interesting... sure, we claim that the touchpad and the rest of the tablets (non-apple) have no apps, have this issue, that issue, etc and dismiss them outright. However, the iphone launched with many of the same issues (no apps, no mms, no cut/paste, etc), and, over the next year or two, Apple turned it into the best phone around. Why is it impossible for someone to do the same with respect to tablets?

The difference though is that when apple launched the iPhone, there was no competing smartphone that performed as well as it did. Yes, it lacked copy and paste, app store, 3G, mms and numerous other features, but what it did do, it did miles better than every other smartphone at the time.

And that is the problem that now faces competing platforms, because the iPhone does now exist with all those features, they have to either release something that competes with all the features the iPhone has or release something so much better that people wont care that it does not have this feature or that feature. If apple were to release the original iPhone now, it would not be able to compete at all with the platforms in the market.

 

[za9ra22]

It goes both ways, though. There are PLENTY of people who like something simply BECAUSE it is from Apple. Many people don't seem to remember that the iPhone, at launch, was actually pretty underwhelming. There were no 3rd party apps, and it was basically a touch cell phone that had slow (edge!) internet capabilities. Yet, many people trumpeted it as the best thing since sliced bread. ....

The important thing to bear in mind regarding the original iPhone and the 'trumpeting of it as the best thing since sliced bread' is that if you look at the smartphone market pre-2007 and the smartphone market as little as a year later, every device was swinging in line behind the basic design concepts the iPhone introduced. What that demonstrates is that firstly, smartphones (indeed, cellphones in general) were pretty badly designed and had really poor interfaces, leaving the door wide open for something well designed and innovative, and secondly, that the one thing Apple do better (in general) than most, is good design and innovation. That, I suspect, is why there are plenty of people who seem to like Apple products.

 

[darngooddesign]

It goes both ways, though. There are PLENTY of people who like something simply BECAUSE it is from Apple. Many people don't seem to remember that the iPhone, at launch, was actually pretty underwhelming. There were no 3rd party apps, and it was basically a touch cell phone that had slow (edge!) internet capabilities. Yet, many people trumpeted it as the best thing since sliced bread. That's what I find interesting... sure, we claim that the touchpad and the rest of the tablets (non-apple) have no apps, have this issue, that issue, etc and dismiss them outright. However, the iphone launched with many of the same issues (no apps, no mms, no cut/paste, etc), and, over the next year or two, Apple turned it into the best phone around. Why is it impossible for someone to do the same with respect to tablets?

I remember it and bought the first one on launch day. What it couldn't do didn't matter because what it did felt light years ahead of anything else out there; like going from Windows 3.1 to Leopard. Even EDGE wasn't so bad because you had Wifi, low-res YouTube clips, and the initial big push of mobile sites. All you have to do is look at the original keynote to realize now much better it was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyx_va6f10s

 

[vrDrew]

It goes both ways, though. There are PLENTY of people who like something simply BECAUSE it is from Apple.

I think many people, and more than a few competitors, give this idea way too much weight. They seem to think there is this huge mass of Apple fanboys who will mindlessly buy whatever Apple puts on sale.

I think this is a vast misunderstanding of both Apple's customers, and the way Apple operates.

First, you have to remember that not every Apple product has been a success. Apple fanboys didn't rush out in their millions to buy Newtons, they didn't rush out to buy PowerMac Cubes, and they didn't rush out to buy the original Apple TV. Brand is worth something - but not enough to sell a poorly thought out product.

Secondly, a lot of iPad (and iPhone and iPod) customers also have a lot of "non-Apple" hardware in their lives. My main computer is Windows Vista box, and my mobile phone isn't an iPhone, for example. And I bet I'm far from alone... Its not that I don't think the Mac and the iPhone aren't good products - its just that for a variety of reasons, financial and practical, the competing Apple products didn't me offer the right cost/benefit mix.

Lastly, people point to Apple's marketing as somehow gulling its "sheeplike" customers. This is completely the wrong: Apple has world class marketing because its a great company. Not the other way around.

Apple's value as a brand (to me at least) is this: If Apple introduces a new product, they'll get my interest or attention in a way that a new product from Dell, or HP, or Samsung wouldn't. That's the legacy of thirty years or so or impressive innovation in the consumer electronics business. Its also a legacy that (theoretically, at least) five years of blah, "me-too" products could very easily erase.

 

[Tarzanman]

I think many people, and more than a few competitors, give this idea way too much weight. They seem to think there is this huge mass of Apple fanboys who will mindlessly buy whatever Apple puts on sale.

Uh, there *is* a huge mass of Apple fan boys. I'm serious. Go visit a hipster/yuppie coffee shop one of these days and look at what people are using. 90% of the machines are Macs and 90% of the people are using them exclusively for email, movies and web browsing (which you could do just as easily and cheaper with any number of brands of computer).

I think this is a vast misunderstanding of both Apple's customers, and the way Apple operates.

I'm guessing that you don't get out much. Apple's average consumer is a non-tech savvy 20-something. A far cry from Mac fans of the 80's and 90's.

First, you have to remember that not every Apple product has been a success. Apple fanboys didn't rush out in their millions to buy Newtons, they didn't rush out to buy PowerMac Cubes, and they didn't rush out to buy the original Apple TV. Brand is worth something - but not enough to sell a poorly thought out product.

I see your point, but no one is saying that the product is poor. They are saying that the product is more (or less, rather) equal to its competitors in terms of function and that in Apple's case, marketing is what drives their sales in spite of the higher price point. You can disagree, but these are established/accepted facts.

Secondly, a lot of iPad (and iPhone and iPod) customers also have a lot of "non-Apple" hardware in their lives. My main computer is Windows Vista box, and my mobile phone isn't an iPhone, for example. And I bet I'm far from alone... Its not that I don't think the Mac and the iPhone aren't good products - its just that for a variety of reasons, financial and practical, the competing Apple products didn't me offer the right cost/benefit mix

Lastly, people point to Apple's marketing as somehow gulling its "sheeplike" customers. This is completely the wrong: Apple has world class marketing because its a great company. Not the other way around.

Apple has world class marketing because they have hired a talented a capable advertising agency. Period.

Apple's value as a brand (to me at least) is this: If Apple introduces a new product, they'll get my interest or attention in a way that a new product from Dell, or HP, or Samsung wouldn't. That's the legacy of thirty years or so or impressive innovation in the consumer electronics business. Its also a legacy that (theoretically, at least) five years of blah, "me-too" products could very easily erase.

Lol. This paragraph is so hilarious that I don't even know where to start deconstructing it. Apple's stuff isn't any nicer than Lenovo's stuff, Samsung's stuff, Motorola's stuff, or any of a number of electronics manufacturers that have been in the business for a long time. I'm sorry, but it isn't. For every product that Apple makes, I can point to a competing product which exceeds it. The main difference is that Apple puts matching plastic on all of these products, cripples part of the functionality and calls it an 'ecosystem'

 

[Fernandez21]

Smithers! Release the hounds......

 

[Carouser]

Uh, there *is* a huge mass of Apple fan boys. I'm serious. Go visit a hipster/yuppie coffee shop one of these days and look at what people are using. 90% of the machines are Macs and 90% of the people are using them exclusively for email, movies and web browsing (which you could do just as easily and cheaper with any number of brands of computer).

I have no doubt you made this up to suit your purposes.

I see your point, but no one is saying that the product is poor. They are saying that the product is more (or less, rather) equal to its competitors in terms of function and that in Apple's case, marketing is what drives their sales in spite of the higher price point. You can disagree, but these are established/accepted facts.

Established by whom, where? "Accepted by many people" does not a fact make.

The rest of your argument suggests that any other manufacturer could, without altering their product in any significant way, charge similar prices as Apple for their products by hiring the right marketing agency. This is an extravagant claim, and requires more proof than you've provided.

 

[palpatine]

sure. apple is good at marketing. i agree. heck, they have some of the best commercials i have ever seen. they have gorgeous stores. the list goes on and on. oh, and they have a loyal fan base because they have quality products.

it is really a shame that government regulations force their competitors to make crappy commercials, doesn't allow them to have stores, and forces them to make sub-par products. oh, and don't forget the sign in front of starbucks that says only apple fanboys are allowed. people probably just buy the apple so they can get caffeinated drinks and sit in chairs.

yeah. right...

as people will probably know from my other posts, i have plenty of criticism of apple and steve. but, some of the criticisms i am seeing here are silly in the extreme

 

[bocomo]

Uh, there *is* a huge mass of Apple fan boys. I'm serious. Go visit a hipster/yuppie coffee shop one of these days and look at what people are using. 90% of the machines are Macs and 90% of the people are using them exclusively for email, movies and web browsing (which you could do just as easily and cheaper with any number of brands of computer).


I'm guessing that you don't get out much. Apple's average consumer is a non-tech savvy 20-something. A far cry from Mac fans of the 80's and 90's.


I see your point, but no one is saying that the product is poor. They are saying that the product is more (or less, rather) equal to its competitors in terms of function and that in Apple's case, marketing is what drives their sales in spite of the higher price point. You can disagree, but these are established/accepted facts.




Apple has world class marketing because they have hired a talented a capable advertising agency. Period.




Lol. This paragraph is so hilarious that I don't even know where to start deconstructing it. Apple's stuff isn't any nicer than Lenovo's stuff, Samsung's stuff, Motorola's stuff, or any of a number of electronics manufacturers that have been in the business for a long time. I'm sorry, but it isn't. For every product that Apple makes, I can point to a competing product which exceeds it. The main difference is that Apple puts matching plastic on all of these products, cripples part of the functionality and calls it an 'ecosystem'

wow, awful lot of assumptions in there

 

[jonhcox]

Lol. This paragraph is so hilarious that I don't even know where to start deconstructing it. Apple's stuff isn't any nicer than Lenovo's stuff, Samsung's stuff, Motorola's stuff, or any of a number of electronics manufacturers that have been in the business for a long time. I'm sorry, but it isn't. For every product that Apple makes, I can point to a competing product which exceeds it. The main difference is that Apple puts matching plastic on all of these products, cripples part of the functionality and calls it an 'ecosystem'

You know, I've been in IT for a long time- well, 12 years, and I can say that this last paragraph is complete crap, as is most of your post. I've spent COUNTLESS hours pulling apart various IBM, HP and Dell laptops and I can tell you without doubt that adding memory or replacing/installing new hardrives has always been leagues easier on a Mac than a PC. Tower and desktop wise, it's much closer. 90% of the people in the building now use laptops. But quite a few people in the office use MBP's and it's as easy as popping out the battery, removing the cover and replacing or adding memory. Even the unibody MBP are relatively easy to change. I'll take a Mac or even a ThinkPad ANY DAY over a Dell or HP for any kind of hardware maint.

To get back to point. When you look (closely) at how an Apple product is built and laid out, 8 out of 10 times, the Apple product wins. There is a reason why you pay the extra money and it's not just because they can get away with charging it. Are there better products out there than Apple? Yes. But you'll find that they are not as reliable in day to day usage, which is what many companies now are looking for. It used to be easy to pick up a corporate spec'd Dell laptop and drop it in someone's hands and hope that they or the software/hardware lasted 90 days without fault. As part of a restructuring, they laid off quite a few IT staff and sought a more reliable computer for people to use. So they bought MBP's 18 months ago and after a detailed study, only 2 of the 35 bought had issues. And those were solved by running the software update that the users had not done. Last year in August, 21 of the 57 Dell laptops had issues, ranging from hardware to software problems. You do the math.

Apple puts out a great and reliable product. I would gladly rather work with an Apple than the latest HP. You go out and buy one, like my wife did, and your first 90 days will be fine. After that, I can't guarantee it. As such, it went back and my wife got an Asus Transformer. My MBP has been solid since January 2008, zero issues.

I'd be willing to bet that you are an armchair commentator that has no real experience other than what your eyes digest on the compute screen.

 

[revelated]

I think many people, and more than a few competitors, give this idea way too much weight. They seem to think there is this huge mass of Apple fanboys who will mindlessly buy whatever Apple puts on sale.

I think this is a vast misunderstanding of both Apple's customers, and the way Apple operates.

First, you have to remember that not every Apple product has been a success. Apple fanboys didn't rush out in their millions to buy Newtons, they didn't rush out to buy PowerMac Cubes, and they didn't rush out to buy the original Apple TV. Brand is worth something - but not enough to sell a poorly thought out product.

Secondly, a lot of iPad (and iPhone and iPod) customers also have a lot of "non-Apple" hardware in their lives. My main computer is Windows Vista box, and my mobile phone isn't an iPhone, for example. And I bet I'm far from alone... Its not that I don't think the Mac and the iPhone aren't good products - its just that for a variety of reasons, financial and practical, the competing Apple products didn't me offer the right cost/benefit mix.

Lastly, people point to Apple's marketing as somehow gulling its "sheeplike" customers. This is completely the wrong: Apple has world class marketing because its a great company. Not the other way around.

Apple's value as a brand (to me at least) is this: If Apple introduces a new product, they'll get my interest or attention in a way that a new product from Dell, or HP, or Samsung wouldn't. That's the legacy of thirty years or so or impressive innovation in the consumer electronics business. Its also a legacy that (theoretically, at least) five years of blah, "me-too" products could very easily erase.

Seriously?

• There are MANY people who own iPhones simply because they're iPhones. I've talked to plenty of these people and they can give me no one reason why they chose that phone except that it's cute (girls) or it's got "cool apps" (guys).
• These same people own iPods. They don't use their iPhone for music purposes which makes no sense.
• They are considering, have considered, or have purchased at least one iPad, if not multiple.
• If a new iPhone comes out they will be first in line to buy it EVEN IF their current iPhone is working perfectly fine.
• They own MacBooks. Often it's the poly MacBook or the 13" MacBook - you know, the cheap ones.
• Even when they're forced to use their workplace's Windows PC, they have "Appled" the poor thing out. iTunes is loaded with all of the music, Snow Leopard is themed, their iPad is docked nearby, etc.
• They would buy an iMac...if they could afford it.

Where I come from we call those "Jobsians". People who will buy anything The Jobs tells them to buy.

I am a fan of Apple computers only because they seem to be able to run even Windows better than most PCs, and for casual usage in Mac OS the battery life is superior. I currently have three such computers.

My work just bought me a 13" MacBook Pro for a work machine so I can stop using my Big Apple for work purposes because the Dell they gave me just couldn't cut it. Not even two years old and the keyboard started coming up due to the heat when docked. Occasional blue screen due to what I can only believe is a faulty NIC card, because it only happens during large data transfers. The Apple computers have always been superior for the way I use computers, and having a SSD in my machines helps all that much more.

That said I refuse to touch any iOS device. Not with the current walled garden they're dealing with. I find the interface totally clunky and dumbed down beyond any usefulness, and it is this (and 4G) that keep me on other devices, currently Android.

 

[za9ra22]

Where I come from we call those "Jobsians"

The fact you need to apply derisory labels to people who don't think as you do, says far more about your prejudices than it does about theirs.

 

[Jagardn]

However, the iphone launched with many of the same issues (no apps, no mms, no cut/paste, etc), and, over the next year or two, Apple turned it into the best phone around. Why is it impossible for someone to do the same with respect to tablets?

Apple didn't have anywhere near the competition everyone else does right now. With so many ecosystems popping up only a few will probably thrive, the others will fall to the wayside.