When my car came with a rather loud squeak, and after several trips to the service department it was not fixed, I went to the salesman and asked him if the money I gave him was not perfect. He obviously said it was perfect, I told him I wasn't given a perfect item in exchange, and I got a new car. Simple as that. Apple doesn't seem to understand the value of a good and loyal customer, and the can't get by on innovation alone forever.
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Just bought Imac... Stuck pixel!!!
- Thread starter rxl125
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FFTT said:
Yup, I switched a year ago.. I am glad I didn't read these parts of the forum before buying. Otherwise, I would never had the courage to just go blindly and get it from the local apple store the way I did it.
Now, I have to think twice before just plowing out the cash on apple. I am kinda sensitive to how a company treats its customers !
I think it's time to read The Rules. None of them have been broken in this thread.FFTT said:
There's a difference between your situation and the OP's. If you had talked to the salesman when you first noticed the squeak, and asked for a new car, then it would have been rather unreasonable. But since a repair was attempted several times, all unsuccessfully, chances are a lemon law (if your state has one) would have come into effect anyway. Of course, a squeak in a new car is usually a sign of something rubbing where it shouldn't be (joint or what have you.)Subiklim said:
Sorry, I thought it was 15%, still it's a lot of money.Scipio said:
How does that lovely story have anything to do with the OP's situation. he didn't ask for anything for free, he just wanted what he thought he was buying (and given the impression from Apple).
That's just it. It IS NOT perfect.
Oxford's Definition of perfect is as follows;
1 having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be : she strove to be the perfect wife | life certainly isn't perfect at the moment.
free from any flaw or defect in condition or quality; faultless : the equipment was in perfect condition.
precisely accurate; exact : a perfect circle.
His computer/screen does not fit those requirements. So it isn't a "perfectly good computer."
Look no further than your first definition: as good as it is possible to be. According to industry norms and to Apple policy, it IS a perfectly good computer with no faults above tolerance.EricNau said:
You are not promised a display with no dead or stuck pixels when you buy a computer. You are not paying for a display that is guaranteed to have no dead or stuck pixels. You are not entitled to a waiver of the restocking fee because you didn't get a computer with no dead or stuck pixels. You are not a victim of bad customer service because YOUR expectations exceeded the guarantees of the manufacturer. Apple customer service wouldn't give a crap about this thread--all it says is that they're true to their word without misrepresentation, broken promises, or poor treatment.
rxl125 said:
Good luck dude...but it seems like an awful lot of trouble for such a little thing.
MovieCutter said:
without mentioning anything to my wife, the first time she looked at our computer, she asked..."what's the red dot in the middle?" If it wasn't right in the middle it wouldn't be such a big issue. A lot of you expect too little out of sony. I have a 52 inch rear projection tv that doesn't have one out pixel, I have looked after this whole encounter, even ran the test I have calibration that slowly flashed whole colors so you can tell..
I would urge you to avoid the credit card chargeback. It will be ruled against you, and that will cause you more trouble than it's worth to you. Carefully review the credit card's policies first. You can't initiate the chargeback simply for dissatisfaction if the product was delivered as promised, as it was in this case. A bad chargeback could cause you to lose your buyer protection which you might need in the future.rxl125 said:
Is your rear projection TV DLP or LCoS? They're not the same manufacturing technologies, but there are still people with stuck pixels on their televisions who also must live with it. Honestly, if you're unhappy, exchange the computer and take your chances. Cheating your way out of a restocking fee isn't the mature way to handle your dissatisfaction.
rxl125 said:
So, since you've said this about six or seven times in this thread, I have to respond to it at least once. I am almost certain that defect rate is highly correlated to the size OF THE LCD. And you, understanding basic engineering and physics, know that the LCD of a 17" or 20" iMac is much larger than the LCD of a 52" projection television, don't you (if it even uses an LCD and not a digital light processor)?
Bottom line is, you just gotta know how to play the system if you want perfect stuff. I do because I'm a demanding customer and expect perfection. Buying from Apple - whether online or at one of their stores - is not the way to go IMHO.matticus008 said:
i know ur pain
hi rxl, just wanted to let u know i had the same thing happen to my first imac. i bought the 20" the first day it launched at my campus book store. the first thing i noticed was the stuck red pixel two inches to the left of the middle. for days i tried the massaging and video to no avail. i went in to the nearest apple store in Brea, CA about it and said first to try and exchange it. then if i couldn't, they said to bring in my machine and since it was under warranty they would have it sent to be repaired. luckily the tech manager of the bookstore sympathize with me and allowed me to exchange it. i said the same thing, since i paid 1449, (school discount) i expect it to be with no problems, especially smack in the middle. and about people not noticing while doing normal tasks, let me tell u, even when i was using media player to play music, playing dvds, or surfing the net, that red pixel stuck out to me, it was like taunting me. i would automatically look at it, wondering why its there after dropping a thousand something dollars. i used to work clothing retail and the geek squad at best buy, so i know all the lcd/pixel rules, but im just saying i know how this guy is feeling and it sucks! good luck man on whatever u do.
hi rxl, just wanted to let u know i had the same thing happen to my first imac. i bought the 20" the first day it launched at my campus book store. the first thing i noticed was the stuck red pixel two inches to the left of the middle. for days i tried the massaging and video to no avail. i went in to the nearest apple store in Brea, CA about it and said first to try and exchange it. then if i couldn't, they said to bring in my machine and since it was under warranty they would have it sent to be repaired. luckily the tech manager of the bookstore sympathize with me and allowed me to exchange it. i said the same thing, since i paid 1449, (school discount) i expect it to be with no problems, especially smack in the middle. and about people not noticing while doing normal tasks, let me tell u, even when i was using media player to play music, playing dvds, or surfing the net, that red pixel stuck out to me, it was like taunting me. i would automatically look at it, wondering why its there after dropping a thousand something dollars. i used to work clothing retail and the geek squad at best buy, so i know all the lcd/pixel rules, but im just saying i know how this guy is feeling and it sucks! good luck man on whatever u do.
mkrishnan said:So, since you've said this about six or seven times in this thread, I have to respond to it at least once. I am almost certain that defect rate is highly correlated to the size OF THE LCD. And you, understanding basic engineering and physics, know that the LCD of a 17" or 20" iMac is much larger than the LCD of a 52" projection television, don't you (if it even uses an LCD and not a digital light processor)?
I do realize the lcd in the tv is projected... The size of the original lcd in the tv, I am not aware.
rxl125 said:
My point is the big LCDs -- particularly the high res widescreen 17"-ers and the 20"+ crowd -- are the ones that typically have the most dead pixel problems....
I don't think dead pixel issues in projection TVs are so common in general, regardless of manufacturer. At least, I've never really heard anyone kvetch about them. But I've heard it about LCD monitors from almost every manufacturer....
mkrishnan said:
we have dell lcd's at work and I have never seen a red pixel stuck on. For some reason mine is really noticeable. I think that is because it is in the middle of the screen. What are my chances with apple relations? I recently purchased an ipod too, so I am a good new customer. Has anyone dealt with them before?
I'd have gone crazy if my ACD had any dead pixels. Don't rest until it's sorted - kick up enough of a fuss and you'll get your replacement! Best of luck!rxl125 said:
rxl125 said:
I have, but not for this sort of issue. They're nice people. I think you should give it a try. Not guaranteeing you any likelihood of success, but definitely try....
I seem to have seen more stuck pixels in blue than red for some reason, but i can't imagine it's a meaningful pattern. No idea. But I'm sure they're out there.
As someone else noted...*are* you sure you're looking at one pixel and not a cluster of stuck pixels? If you're seeing a grouping of more than one pixel, the story with respect to Apple's policy is completely different, AFAIK....
I agree that people who want perfect products should go somewhere where the service policies guarantee it. Any big box retailer or chain store is very likely to be less than ideal. If you're buying for price, get it from the big stores. If you're buying for perfection, be prepared to pay more at a small shop. It's unexcusable to lie, cheat, and steal to try to get what you want if you've paid for and received something in the form in which it was promised.Cooknn said:
That's what I find so highly irritating about this thread. People accuse companies of being out to get people, when in fact it's the customers that demonstrate the corrupt tendencies.
haven't read the responses but here's my $.08
call cc and explore options
buy another unit replace with stuck pixel unit and return and pay the % fee to restock
sell it on ebay and take the eventual negative feedback...hey apples policy is good enough for them, so it should be good for you.
continue to raise hell at the local store and stand outside the store for a weekend with a sign describing your situation and if possbible give a live demonstration of your defective unit making everyone aware of their risks and the store's refusal to work with you.
call cc and explore options
buy another unit replace with stuck pixel unit and return and pay the % fee to restock
sell it on ebay and take the eventual negative feedback...hey apples policy is good enough for them, so it should be good for you.
continue to raise hell at the local store and stand outside the store for a weekend with a sign describing your situation and if possbible give a live demonstration of your defective unit making everyone aware of their risks and the store's refusal to work with you.
I didn't recommend locking this thread because anyone had broken the rules, but after more than 100 posts going back and forth, we've covered just about
every aspect of this issue to a point where it's not benefitting anyone.
As I mentioned before, thousands of potential buyers read these forums.
People come to Apple expecting something better and they are willing to pay
a premium for it.
In most cases, their expectations are met with exceptional results.
However, when a product fails to meet the customers expectations right out of the box, this is where the best customer service should be Apple's first priority.
From bad iBook motherboards, defective batteries, lines in the PowerBook displays, to pink issues in the 23" ACD's to defective capacitors in the Rev A iMac, bad power supplies and noise issues in the G5's, and several new issues with heat and noise in the MBP's it's clear that Apple needs to crack down hard on quality control.
In all of the cases mentioned above, Apple denied there was a problem and
went so far as to remove negative feedback from their web site,
until enough public pressure and negative publicity motivated them to take responsibility.
Apple has the resources to go after their vendors for manufacturing defects
and poor quality control.
This customer is entitled to a courteous exchange or a full refund, no questions asked.
every aspect of this issue to a point where it's not benefitting anyone.
As I mentioned before, thousands of potential buyers read these forums.
People come to Apple expecting something better and they are willing to pay
a premium for it.
In most cases, their expectations are met with exceptional results.
However, when a product fails to meet the customers expectations right out of the box, this is where the best customer service should be Apple's first priority.
From bad iBook motherboards, defective batteries, lines in the PowerBook displays, to pink issues in the 23" ACD's to defective capacitors in the Rev A iMac, bad power supplies and noise issues in the G5's, and several new issues with heat and noise in the MBP's it's clear that Apple needs to crack down hard on quality control.
In all of the cases mentioned above, Apple denied there was a problem and
went so far as to remove negative feedback from their web site,
until enough public pressure and negative publicity motivated them to take responsibility.
Apple has the resources to go after their vendors for manufacturing defects
and poor quality control.
This customer is entitled to a courteous exchange or a full refund, no questions asked.
Absolutely true for all of the defects you've listed. But bad pixels are not refundable defects below a given, published threshold. Apple quality control isn't to blame for dead pixels below a certain amount--they're normal results of the manufacturing process. There's no arguing this point, honestly. Apple isn't denying a problem or having specific troubles that are within Apple's control to stop (at a price that the market would carry). That's really all there is to it.FFTT said:
People come to Apple to get something better, and Apple delivers. But 1GB of Apple RAM isn't better than anyone else's, nor are their optical drives, hard drives, processors, and so on. Apple can choose quality components like name brand hard drives that are better and more expensive than generic ones, but they still have a similar failure rate. Same goes with LCDs.
I am now up to 3 stuck pixels... The other two are blue... One is in the middle too. The other one is in the corner and that doesn't bother me... So I picked up 2 over night. I reran LCD Pixel Checking Utility... I have to admit the blue ones aren't as bad... The red one is a killer though...
Could the original poster put up a picture of the screen for us to see?
I bought a Rev A 17in Powerbook £2350 (edu) months after I bought I noticed it had a stuck pixel which for a time was all I could see on the screen even though I'd used it day in day out for weeks without complaint. Few months after that I forgot all about it. My stuck pixel was blue towards the middle of the x axis slightly to the left of centre. And before anyone asks I work in photo and graphics.
A 20in cinema display I bought (£1000+) has had a stuck blue pixel since new. I noticed it as soon as I took it out of the box, didn't bother massaging or using software tricks. I don't even notice it now.
My other LCD Apple products have been fine. A friend bought a Dell monitor it had 3 stuck pixels, one red and two green Dell wouldn't replace it as it met specification. Someone else I know bought a Lacie at some cost it had a stuck blue pixel and wouldn't be exchanged.
I've bought the majority of my computer products online, all my Apple machines (bar 20in cinema display) from apple.com/uk and there service has always has been first class to date. It is unfair of anyone to sum up a companies attitude and policies based on one case. If the red spot in question is as big as a laser pointer then it cannot be a single pixel. Looking at a photo of a single red pixel on a black background on my 17in Powerbook (same res as your screen) that I created in Photoshop you literally cannot notice it. Even making it 4 pixels square is hard to see. If it is larger then this you should really take it to the Apple store as it will most likely meet the returns policy anyway (if you have taken it back already I must have missed that bit sorry).
I very much doubt your credit card company will be able to help in the circumstances as no one is legally at fault so they cannot claim the money back. All I would say is ask yourself regardless of disappointment could you use the computer, if it is a single pixel you should be ok. If you decide you really can't then you have two options, keep on at Apple (call them direct as opposed to the store) or pay the 10% restocking fee and get another machine. Remember though that despite other people's good experiences with other stores you could go elsewhere, get another machine which may be worse and have the same problems all over again.
Good luck and congrats on a great machine anyway
I bought a Rev A 17in Powerbook £2350 (edu) months after I bought I noticed it had a stuck pixel which for a time was all I could see on the screen even though I'd used it day in day out for weeks without complaint. Few months after that I forgot all about it. My stuck pixel was blue towards the middle of the x axis slightly to the left of centre. And before anyone asks I work in photo and graphics.
A 20in cinema display I bought (£1000+) has had a stuck blue pixel since new. I noticed it as soon as I took it out of the box, didn't bother massaging or using software tricks. I don't even notice it now.
My other LCD Apple products have been fine. A friend bought a Dell monitor it had 3 stuck pixels, one red and two green Dell wouldn't replace it as it met specification. Someone else I know bought a Lacie at some cost it had a stuck blue pixel and wouldn't be exchanged.
I've bought the majority of my computer products online, all my Apple machines (bar 20in cinema display) from apple.com/uk and there service has always has been first class to date. It is unfair of anyone to sum up a companies attitude and policies based on one case. If the red spot in question is as big as a laser pointer then it cannot be a single pixel. Looking at a photo of a single red pixel on a black background on my 17in Powerbook (same res as your screen) that I created in Photoshop you literally cannot notice it. Even making it 4 pixels square is hard to see. If it is larger then this you should really take it to the Apple store as it will most likely meet the returns policy anyway (if you have taken it back already I must have missed that bit sorry).
I very much doubt your credit card company will be able to help in the circumstances as no one is legally at fault so they cannot claim the money back. All I would say is ask yourself regardless of disappointment could you use the computer, if it is a single pixel you should be ok. If you decide you really can't then you have two options, keep on at Apple (call them direct as opposed to the store) or pay the 10% restocking fee and get another machine. Remember though that despite other people's good experiences with other stores you could go elsewhere, get another machine which may be worse and have the same problems all over again.
Good luck and congrats on a great machine anyway
If it's any consolation, I just noticed a red pixel in the middle of my 30" ACD a few days ago. I've had it for a month and never noticed it. I forgot about it a few hours later...until I posted this...