I'd disagree here. The touch screen is common in iOS, watchOS, Android, Windows, my kindle... Even the self-checkout register at my grocery store. That's pretty democratized in my eyes.
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Just bought the 2016 MBP 15" and WOW!
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I'd disagree here. The touch screen is common in iOS, watchOS, Android, Windows, my kindle... Even the self-checkout register at my grocery store. That's pretty democratized in my eyes.
Who said there was a war? My point is that there is no such thing as a middle ground. You like your computer? That's great. But there's clearly a lot of problems with this lineup in the first weeks of release than other MacBook Pro ones.
It's funny, because people's immediate response is, "Well, I didn't experience the problem, so I don't care." That is hilariously illogical for two reasons: 1) You're being an irresponsible member of that ecosystem and a customer by not caring about the fact that this problem exists, and 2) Of course if there is a problem with software and/or hardware, this will not affect 100% of the customer base. My example I like to use is a virus - if it spreads and affects 10% of a population, is that a cause of concern? Of course! It is 10%, a relatively small proportion, but the fact that it has reached to this point is still concerning. Translating that into the MacBook Pro's, I would not be surprised that if we were to divide the number of people who have any of these problems I talked about (Battery life, screen shutting down/freezing, dGPU issues - just any issues that are very concerning to the point where you should return your computer) by the total number of people who purchased the device, I'd say that % is pretty alarming.
Have a browse at the first few pages on this subthread to get a taste of different flavors, which ultimately point to customers having to wait for weeks for a replacement, or having to return the product. If you're either the lucky one who doesn't have any of these problems, or don't push the computer to the point where you won't see these things, good for you. But for me, I like to sit back for a few months for a product as important as a laptop before I make the decision to pull the trigger.
So yeah, if I see that Apple has yet to fix its awful software glitches that freeze the computer, or tackle the fact that its dGPU's are absolute **** in crashing computers (Which is much worse now that dGPU's are STANDARD on all 15"), or lock you out of the majority of TB3 devices, I'm going to say something about it and talk with my wallet as well.
And in face of all of this, there's a thread or two of people trying to drown out these criticisms. "OH, but I enjoy MY computer! So screw those other people!" I own a Macbook Air, iPhone 7 plus, and an Apple Watch series 0. None of these have as many problems as the MacBook Pro does. So I'm content with them. Of course there will be some software issues here and there, but I know that these things are not deal-breaking.
In relation to this thread, if I see a guy who's spending at least 7-10k on TWO devices in a span of TWO days that are supposed to last you for YEARS, of course I'm going to question his decision. What compelled you to buy one after making a thread the day before asking if you should? And what prompted you to buy another? Am I missing something here? I'm going to ask him questions, and if his only comment back is, "Well you don't know what you're talking about unless you spend as much as I do!," I'm not really going to bother at that point.
So yes, everyone's needs are different. Everyone has opinions. There are positive and negative opinions. If you can't stand the negatives as I can't stand the echo rooms that you people try to make in order to pat yourselves on the back, you might want to re-consider what an internet forum is.
Interesting thread.
I used to be a windows guy once, and I remember that every time a new, expensive specimen of hardware was announced, all the internet bashers lined up with sticks and clubs in their hands, trashtalking the new hardware.
I especially remember when I got one of the first Acer X34 21:9 ultra-widescreen monitors last year: weeks before the release these people were busy on various forums, inventing all sorts of problems with this monitor. Build quality was poor, screen was flickering, it had severe problems with backlight bleed etcetera. All in all, they agreed it was the worst monitor ever produced.
And they posted all these negative remarks BEFORE a single bloody monitor had been shipped out of the factory!! It was completely absurd, but that's how things seem to work nowadays.
When I finally got my own X34, I realised that all this had been a load of horses**t. My monitor worked excellently. Of course.
I strongly suspect that the same thing is going on now, with all this strange bashing of the new MBP: I seriously doubt that all these people talking about "all these bugs", "battery life", "everything sucks", "touch bar drains all the battery power" etc, own a MBP 2016 themselves, or ever intended to buy one.
As to the reasons for this phenomenon, I leave the guesswork to brighter minds than me....
Peace!
I used to be a windows guy once, and I remember that every time a new, expensive specimen of hardware was announced, all the internet bashers lined up with sticks and clubs in their hands, trashtalking the new hardware.
I especially remember when I got one of the first Acer X34 21:9 ultra-widescreen monitors last year: weeks before the release these people were busy on various forums, inventing all sorts of problems with this monitor. Build quality was poor, screen was flickering, it had severe problems with backlight bleed etcetera. All in all, they agreed it was the worst monitor ever produced.
And they posted all these negative remarks BEFORE a single bloody monitor had been shipped out of the factory!! It was completely absurd, but that's how things seem to work nowadays.
When I finally got my own X34, I realised that all this had been a load of horses**t. My monitor worked excellently. Of course.
I strongly suspect that the same thing is going on now, with all this strange bashing of the new MBP: I seriously doubt that all these people talking about "all these bugs", "battery life", "everything sucks", "touch bar drains all the battery power" etc, own a MBP 2016 themselves, or ever intended to buy one.
As to the reasons for this phenomenon, I leave the guesswork to brighter minds than me....
Peace!
Oh, he's not the only guy with two laptops on the planet: I've got two of them, too. Come on, bash me up!
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You are not writing comments, my dear. You are writing entire novels. That might be why.
Oh, he's not the only guy with two laptops on the planet: I've got two of them, too. Come on, bash me up!
Well, is not the same. You have a Macbook (bough some other day) and now you got a better and more powerfull machine (you'll have your reasons I guess.) But buying 2 new MBP at the same time is at least a weird thing to do. Not questioning him, he can do as he pleases and probably have his reasons, I just ask out of curiosity.
One for work, one for the wife, one for the kids?
As to mine, they both have their unique uses: the MacBook 2016 sits comfortably in my lap when I'm reading Ebooks, writing or browsing. Also perfect for the backpack if I'm not going to do anything more demanding than taking notes at uni.
The MBP is intended as more of a stationary-computer-that-can-be-moved-around-the-house, and for gaming and other more demanding tasks. I've ordered the LG 5K screen to keep it company on the desk: it should arrive in a week or so.
See? That makes sense, different machines for different uses. But 2 exactly identical machines... There have to be different reasons.
Dude, you need a reset, you are overreaching. It's "hilarious" that people buy a product that they like and don't buy into the endless naysaying of non-owners? Again I'll ask, why do you care so much that some of us buy this and enjoy it? It's obviously not the "disaster" with "endless" glitches and crashes when most of us don't experience this. Some people do, sure. Some people experience glitches with every computer. More than past computers? Probably, since this is a rev A. I'm only questioning why you seem compelled to judge everyone who is satisfied with their purchase. OP bought 2? Most people I find that buy 2 computers do so for some work related reason. Who are you to judge anyone else's circumstance that you know nothing about. When MBP's are used to make money, the value equation changes quite a bit.
I DO care when people have issues with this computer. That's why I'm here. I either try to help troubleshoot, or I get more awareness about what can happen to my computer. Your suggestion is we sit here like petulant children and protest Apple by not buying their product? Um no. I like the MBP, and I will continue to use it as I do. Your "solution" is childish. I am not going to sit here and bitch and moan that they didn't include a usb-a port when it barely affects me. I'm sorry if this isn't the case with all users. But there are hundreds of choices out there if you don't like it. I for one will not go to an internet forum and dump all over anyone's choice to buy something.
Exactly what are you trying to accomplish? You sit here and criticize what people do with their own hard earned money. You judge people's spending choices. You don't see that this is a little over the top. Why do you care that OP bought a computer after gathering thoughts a day before? Isn't that the smart thing to do. It may not have been what you would do, but again, are you his dad?
Look, no one gives a s**t if you buy this computer or not. Keep complaining about it all you want. You criticizing the way someone chooses to spend their money or criticizing that they actually find value in the MBP is overreaching and arrogant. Don't buy this computer. No one is asking you to. Who are you to judge an adult's purchase decision when it has no bearing on your life. Get over yourself. Yes, I already know your reaction - "this is hilarious".
Edit: toned down a bit for fear of mods
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Uh? What?
I bought two. My wife has one and I have the other. I also have last years 15". So what? They get used. So does my MacBook Air. The 15" will go bye-bye and get replaced with the new 15".
These machines are money making devices, no different from our phones or printers. If you want a gaming toy, there are better choices over a Mac.
R.
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The POINT is that you don't have to use touchscreen, thus not having it doesn't leave anyone out. Same for the touchbar. It's a new feature. If it becomes a default standard, then eventually everyone will have it in a few years as they upgrade their Macs. Who cares about old tech? Not me and not Apple.
My 2015 rMBP will be just fine in 3-4 years and that's all I would expect out of it...but I'm dumping it because the tMBP is that much nicer.
R.
So? One is for you and one for your wife, what's your point? You didn't buy 2 for you.
Don't even know what to answer to that. Who said anything about gaming? I'm a video editor so I do REALLY use and need this machine for work. I think you quoted the wrong user.
Nobody is PRO enough on this forum.
I know CEOs who are worth less than 10.000 dollars.
They call me TNT...you know why?
...because when I use my keyboard I go off like dynamite
Look how I made an emoji appear without the touch bar or a magic keyboard
Can't intervene my ass...
I have so much gear, I spend all day maintaining them. it's quite a workload, as I also spend 8 hours plus maintaining other peoples opinions on forums. After my wife left me for a guy with more Apple gear, I have gained time and financial power to acquire even more MacBooks, iPhones and USB C peripherals. A revamped Mac Pro this spring will show you guys, who is the real king of this forum.
I know CEOs who are worth less than 10.000 dollars.
They call me TNT...you know why?
...because when I use my keyboard I go off like dynamite
Look how I made an emoji appear without the touch bar or a magic keyboard
Can't intervene my ass...
I have so much gear, I spend all day maintaining them. it's quite a workload, as I also spend 8 hours plus maintaining other peoples opinions on forums. After my wife left me for a guy with more Apple gear, I have gained time and financial power to acquire even more MacBooks, iPhones and USB C peripherals. A revamped Mac Pro this spring will show you guys, who is the real king of this forum.
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I actually did buy two for me. She was using the Air, then stole my tMBP. She doesn't like the size of the 15". I do need to laptops (one for my local stuff and a second for running around), so I'm going to add the 15" on the next cycle, which I think is worth waiting for.
R
Oh, he's not the only guy with two laptops on the planet: I've got two of them, too. Come on, bash me up!
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You are not writing comments, my dear. You are writing entire novels. That might be why.
I have two laptops too haha a 12" and pro also! (13" nTB)
And two iPhones , SE and 7+ Both jailbroken stable jb for SE only so far
Could probably sell 12" and SE since I use the others more, but that's not to say I don't use the others/ probably won't get much money for either and will then miss them.
I like color differences too. Gold and matte black.
On laptop space grey 12" and silver pro.
Very astute observation, and you're quite correct: There are absolutely no problems with the 2016 model. All of these complaints are being made by an army of shills who've never even seen the computer!
And do you know what the worst part is? Even Bloomberg and Consumer Reports are part of the conspiracy!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-20/how-apple-alienated-mac-loyalists
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/macbook-pros-fail-earn-consumer-190350939.html
I disagree, I truely believe that Apple has done great in years past and the first announcement of the Macbook Pro Retina was just HUGE, I can't even begin to state how huge that release was. The problem is that the current system can't really compete with that release. The improvements of that macbook blew open the doors, you had PC Loyalists who were saying the Macbook Pro Retina was amazing. The current system has a HUGE price increase and so-so Touchbar (Let be honest Here Touchbar is like Siri, it's an added feature that you either use or don't use and you either love it or don't care for it just like Siri)
but with the price increase and the 'expectation' it doesn't match or surpass the original release. It's like the Movies, you've got a sequel you've been wowed many times over, you're not currently being wowed to the same extent. Please tell me how I'm wrong here, Thanks.
but with the price increase and the 'expectation' it doesn't match or surpass the original release. It's like the Movies, you've got a sequel you've been wowed many times over, you're not currently being wowed to the same extent. Please tell me how I'm wrong here, Thanks.
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I didn't know bloomberg and CR were paying customers who used the products everyday. I better return mine since my month of usage is clearly wrong? CR's battery tests (only reason for non-reco) are bizarre at best. 2 hours than 17 hours? MR haters can't even claim that. Even beyond those crazy numbers, that is the way skylake works, mated with MacOS granted. Again, not sure why all the non-owners keep claiming that it sucks, when it clearly doesn't for those of us that use them daily. Regards to bloomberg, who are these "loyalists"? It's a pretty big claim that they have alienated "us", whoever that is. Let's just be intellectually lazy and call us "shills". By definition, all of us who bought one are a "shill" and not a "loyalist". I'm getting confused by the name calling, losing track of what camp I fall under.
I bought a 16 MBP with my money. I am satisfied with my purchase. Is there more to it than that? Does my purchase need to represent something or make a statement?
You mean their inconsistent battery tests?
I work in a scientific environment: I know that if you test the same physical piece of hardware twice and achieve wildly different results, the reason HAS TO BE an error in either:
1) Measurement -instruments/software faulty
2) Controlled environment: i.e. the tests runs under different conditions. For instance the MBP indexing files and making time machine backups in one case (shortens battery life), while the other test was running with only the intended processes active.
In other words: the testers f-ed it all up. Their response should have been to control the tested computer and the software and other measurement tools, then rerun the tests again. They should not have published without consistent, verifiable results. Unless they wanted to be the laughing stock of the week...
...and as to the Bloomberg article: a lot of negative, subjective blah blah blah without arguments or factual substance. I didn't take it too seriously. Nor should you =)
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Well because you didn't partake in the Macbook Retinas, and that was huge if you're coming from an 09 then I can definitely see the upgraded advantages and see why you'd be happy with your purchase. However I don't for a second believe this is the case for anyone who is coming from a 14-15 and maybe a 12.
I say Maybe on the 12, because I did see noticeable improvements from the '12 to the '14 myself.
I've used Retinas. I don't think I mentioned the screen as a huge improvement to a 14? I don't think I've ever even recommended someone with a 14 or 15 upgrading to a MBP 16. That doesn't change the fact that the MBP 16 is the best MBP you can buy TODAY. For someone deciding between a 15 and 16, my opinion is that there is no debate. In no way would I suggest someone with a 14 or 15 must upgrade. Two very different statements.
This is the new age of technology. We're not seeing massive jumps every year. This is good news for consumers as we can continue to use computers longer. I think I saw that the '12 is still within a stones throw of the '16 in straight chip benchmarks. That's good for us all. However, I think it's a disservice to say to someone who wants/needs an upgrade that the '16 isn't the best one to get today. That's cool that you love your '14. No one will say that it's anything less than a great MBP. I certainly am not trying to get you to upgrade (I know you already have).
I have a 2015 15" rMBP. I also have the maxed out 2014 MacBook Air, 2011 15" i7 MBP and two of the new tMBP 13" units with the base configuration.
They are all very good machines. I actually like the case design of the Air better than all of the others.
But beyond that I now have a better screen, keyboard, speakers, trackpad, Touch ID, faster machine, touch bar, beautiful design/color and less size and weight and NO issue with battery life at ALL.
What do you want OWNERS to do? Lie and say it's not as good as the inferior (but still excellent) previous generation? You prefer to listen to bad tests, with hugely inconsistent results and suspect owner stories, who never seem able to back up what they claim...?
No one's forcing you to buy it. Like your old pencil, great! Keep using it. But your ignorance and 2nd hand experiences are NOT the equal of actual knowledge and first hand experiences.
R.
Well, are those tests "bad"? That might be your feeling. Might the hardware management be an issue? I think it's prudent to wait for Apple or CR to follow up with these issues (real or perceived). I'm sure we'll find out soon. It's in Apple's interest to do so.
I know you weren't referring to me, but I used the word "bizarre". I get about 7-9 hours with my "normal usage", stretched longer if needed. On the 15", I suppose it's conceivable to get a 2-17 hour variance. You could open a huge word file and just read for 17 hours. And then you could do some 4k editing with CPU and dGPU running full throttle for 2 hours. I've not come close to either end of that range, but I guess it's possible. The thing I find strange about their conclusions is that the MBP battery was too "inconsistent" to be recommended. These skylakes (and dGPU combination) will run high and low in the name of efficiency, giving us smaller footprint, etc. I would think they would have to give a no go to all skylake laptops because that's what the chip will do, maybe not to that degree, but wide variance nevertheless. My XPS had crazy swings too, but I understood that was the chip. Is CR's conclusion that other laptops are able to constrain the battery usage so that battery life stays within a certain band using the same skylakes?
I am not saying that these batteries (and chip combo) are without issue. They definitely require care and understanding. But not to the degree that they are just unusable. It's just a strange result they came to. Not to speak for Apple, but that probably also piqued their interest aside from the bad PR of course. No I'm not defending, I am just as curious as to how they concluded what they did, based on my month of experience.